Games Where The 'Antagonist/Villian' Wins (Or Was Right)?

DoPo

"You're not cleared for that."
Jan 30, 2012
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FalloutJack said:
Look, I didn't want to argue with you guys, but apparently I was actually on the right track here, as stated by the OP.
Yet not when it comes to the actual definitions of the actual words.

And yes I was already aware of what the thread was about

DoPo said:
Saelune said:
Silvanus said:
canadamus_prime said:
I don't think people understand the difference between "villain" and "antagonist." Those words are not interchangeable.
Which would you dispute in this thread? The former is often a matter of perspective.
Based on the OP, "antagonist" since they used the player being evil as an example, so apparently mean where the bad guy wins, even if its you.
It's also funny, because the thread's title initially used "villain" instead of "antagonist", but was changed.

Still, given the examples, I am guessing it's just "evil" that's meant.
I was disagreeing with your "opinion" which wasn't an opinion.
 

crimson5pheonix

It took 6 months to read my title.
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FalloutJack said:
Mangod said:
crimson5pheonix said:
DoPo said:
Look, I didn't want to argue with you guys, but apparently I was actually on the right track here, as stated by the OP. Can we just break even here? I didn't mean to fire you all up on this.
Well no, you weren't on the right track. The OP was a bit less than clear on his wording (which is fine), but it doesn't make your position correct.
 

Bobular

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Oct 7, 2009
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BloodRayne 2

You kill the bad guy in the end but he still won kinda, the world is still a vampire paradise, nothing goes back to how it was and the main character is going to be hunted by humanity even after being the only one to stand up for them.
 

CyanCat47_v1legacy

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Telltales the walking dead: Both seasons so far have had antagonists who views the protagonist as a monster. you can make them right through your actions.

Legend of zelda skyward sword: Demise is defeated in battle but ultimately wins by cursing link and zelda ensuring that their souls will never find rest or respite and must repeat the same cycle of fighting Gannon again and again. Gannon essentially gave himself infinite lives to continue trying to obtain the triforce and gave link an unescapable destiny. In eastern philosophies and religions involving reincanation salvation is obtained through ending the cycle of reincanations because life is suffering. according to buddhism link is in hell and cannot escape.
 

meiam

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Homeward desert of Kharak, you fight a religious zealot who believe that if human ever step off there planet the god will kill them all, which is exactly what happen in homeworld 1.
 

the7k

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Aug 22, 2014
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King of Fighters XI.

Magaki is killed, but aside from that everything else goes to shit. Elizabeth fails to stop Ash, Iori goes berserk and critically wounds Kyo and Shingo, Ash steals Iori's powers, K' Team and Ikari Team witness the ship carrying Magaki's body get destroyed and the body stolen by an unknown force, Shion is still at large, "Those From the Past" are still at large, etc. A bad time all around.
 

Sheo_Dagana

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Do I still have to tag spoilers for The Last of Us? Is there anyone reading through this thread not expecting spoilers? Meh, not tagging it.


The Last of Us - Joel last minute decides he doesn't want to have to make a sacrifice and murders all the people wanting to save mankind from the mushroom-zombie apocalypse and violates the will of everyone that helped him get to that point, including the will of the very person he meant to 'save.'

Call of Duty: Black Ops I & II - I actually liked the story for the first two Black Ops games, with the third one being just okay, but particularly in the second one, the villain can win if the player makes incorrect choices. Either way, in the first game, though the villain is killed, it's heavily implied that his brainwashing of the main character was successful enough that he ends up murdering JFK.

Final Fantasy Tactics - Delita isn't so much a villain as he is an antagonist, depending on how you look at it. He's more of a manipulator. Using Ramza at multiple turns, betraying others, and eventually getting everything that he wants in the end by being crowned King. In a final scene after the credits, Ovelia (his wife), having seen him for the monster that he is, attempts to assassinate him, only to be killed by him instead. And you just KNOW the bastard will get away with it, because he's the Hero King, a commoner raised up to the highest seat of power and the people love him for it. In many ways, Delita is one of the most successful antagonists in all the Final Fantasy franchise.
 

weirdee

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Apr 11, 2011
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trunkage said:
CaitSeith said:
trunkage said:
CaitSeith said:
Mass Effect 3 (extended ending), if you refuse to make the choice, or you shoot the "god-child", you get an ending where the Reapers win, and the only vestige from your crew is a beacon and Liara's recording with the Crucible blueprints.

RealRT said:
No matter what you choose, you choose it on their terms
That too (if you see an awful tri-flavor Deux Ex Machina as the antagonist).
Like Deus Ex (or 2 or HR)
Dude, spoilers!

Just kidding... in part. I haven't played any of those three (they are still in my backlog), so I can't tell how awful they are compared to ME3.
Well one of the games has you pressing one of three button. That determines the ending. No previous action makes a difference.

Another game has you merging with an AI. Or you let robots rule or humans rule.
HR's as much a wash as ME3, anyway. No matter what you decide to do, everything's already terrible, the Illuminati get away scotfree, Jensen's failed at accomplishing anything meaningful, and at the start of DE: Mankind Divided, they make it clear that none of your choices actually mattered, because like DE2 they mushed all the endings together in a dumb "nobody agrees with what actually happened" deal, AGAIN, since they didn't originally plan on making a sequel. Like, how do you make the same mistake after that garbage pile DE2? The narrative director states "the canon ending is whichever you chose" and "we didn't want to rob you of that choice" and yet they pick the option where both of those things are wrong???
 

ryan_cs

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FalloutJack said:
DoPo said:
crimson5pheonix said:
Well then, you're just gonna have to agree to disagree, because we're not derailing the thread any longer.
It's not a matter of opinion. The word protagonist means "the leading actor," and is used by people who study plays/literature/etc to describe characters who lead the story whether they are heroic, villanous, or just a bystander.
By the way where did you learn the definition? Because I have never seen anyone else arguing that this is subjective.

OT:
XCOM 2
AI War: Fleet Command
These two count right? They did win at the beggining, and there's a high chance you will lose if you play at the highest difificulty.

Superhot
The villain wins in this one.
 

Ambient_Malice

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Sep 22, 2014
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Yea, someone else mentioned Black Ops.


"YOU TRIED TO MAKE ME KILL MY OWN PRESIDENT!"

"...Tried?"

*Sam Worthington heroically drowns the antagonist*
 

Tanis

The Last Albino
Aug 30, 2010
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Hahaha...oi vey.

Anyways...

I'd say the Skyrim kind of had this.

If you 'Stay With Empire', you fuck over some of your people and promote religious intolerance.

If you 'Break With Empire', you fuck over all your people (in the long run), and promote racism (speciesism?).

:/
 

Lord Garnaat

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Well, the main character in The Last of Us is essentially pure evil, and your actions allow him to succeed by the mere act of playing through the game. I was about to throw down the controller at the end of it, when you reach the point that he is slaughtering the last remaining hope for mankind just so that he can selfishly cling to the delusional fantasy that Ellie is his new daughter. Lord but I hated that ending.
 

Mangod

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Feb 20, 2011
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Tanis said:
Hahaha...oi vey.

Anyways...

I'd say the Skyrim kind of had this.

If you 'Stay With Empire', you fuck over some of your people and promote religious intolerance.

If you 'Break With Empire', you fuck over all your people (in the long run), and promote racism (speciesism?).

:/
I haven't played Skyrim, but isn't Alduin the main villain? What's his plan (besides eat everyone)?

An example of the Antagonist winning... Ultima 8: Pagan [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8edbJJAEaBI]. The Avatar more or less ends up selling his humanity - killing children, consorting with demonologists and necromancers, aiding murderers, etc - all so he can kill the Titans, become the Titan of Ether, and travel back to Britannia and save it from the Guardian... and in the end you're too late. Britannia has fallen and the Guardian is ruling over it as an evil God.

And then Ultima 9 happened... we try not to think about that...
 

gsilver

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I'd like steer the discussion away from villain protagonists here.
Mangod said:
And then Ultima 9 happened... we try not to think about that...
I'd like to think that The Guardian had an influence on our (the real) world, and caused Ultima 9 to happen, rather than continue to tell the true story of the Avatar.


And in a way, that's true, since The Guardian was basically Electronic Arts, who brought boatloads of cash (and corporate meddling) to Origin Systems.
 

Glongpre

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Jun 11, 2013
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___________________ said:
Let's see if I get banned for life.

Wolfenstein
How so?

OP:
Mass Effect. But what makes it sad for me, is that they tried to make it seem like you could win, when really there is no chance you can win at all.

The rejection ending should be canon. If the Reapers are to be defeated it can't be from one species. First, we know the protheans got the ball rolling by disabling the back door. Then following ME3 we would have the humans finding out more information that can be used against the Reapers.
So what you get is that over millions of years, one race might find all the necessary pieces of information collected by each previous defeated race, and put it all together to mount a successful defence against the Reapers.

Honestly, I think of ME1 as the ending. Shepard manages to trap them in dark space, the end. It is the only way to beat the Reapers, they are much too advanced, organized, and motivated than any opposition they could face.
 

DefunctTheory

Not So Defunct Now
Mar 30, 2010
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Glongpre said:
___________________ said:
Let's see if I get banned for life.

Wolfenstein
How so?
Well, no matter how many times you kill Hitler or his super science team, the Nazis just keep getting more and more powerful as the games go.