Who's screaming? Who's getting into a frenzy? As far as I can tell it's the people worried that we'll end up with no cheesecake whatsoever, which is a silly thing to get worked up over because it will never ever happen.shadowmagus said:
Gaming, Media, Boobies and Poorly Thought-Out Responses: Oh My!
- Thread starter Paragon Fury
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And you playing peacekeeper isn't going to do anything either.erttheking said:
Unless you're someone with any kind of authority telling people to calm down is only going to make them shitpost more, because hey, it annoys people. Sad but true.
The woman there has proportions that a human woman could realistically hope to attain and would not suffer crippling back problems, so it's not really comparable.Zero=Interrupt said:I'll just leave this here. No doubt a certain Gearbox "artist" and a certain "writer" will want all of the artist's works burned because they're so exaggerated and sexualized, along with all the libraries, skirts that go too far above the ankle, and the Bill of Rights, because they obviously know better:
Also, it was drawn by someone who knows how anatomy works.
Oh entirely, there's no problem with having sexualized characters. Just so long as it's within context, fits the personality and doesn't feel hackneyed onto the character. This is what's the biggest difference, in my opinion, between a sexy character and one used as fan service. I think that's what people are having the biggest issue with. They see a bunch of characters whose appearances all say something about them. The mage's appearance gives him the appearance of wielding great power, the fighter's and barbarians look incredibly strong, the archer looks agile, the sorceress looks... sexy? Her appearance emphasizes nothing beyond her butt and breasts, using the skull as a prop. Yet she's a sorceress and a playable character. I feel like they could and should have communicated something that makes you want to play as the character, not just with her(INNUENDO).The Inquisitive Mug said:
I have played Voldo as well, he's weird and the most I've done is note that fact. He didn't noticeably bother me either. The thing is that my whole scenario is what's important. It's not just seeing it in a game, it's how often you see it in a game and how that game expects you to see it. In Soul Calibur, Voldo isn't a perfect example because he isn't being treated as sexy, and isn't being presented in a way that's trying to evoke arousal in the viewer, he's presented as weird, in a way that both genders can cock their heads in confusion at equally. It's also hard to judge because gaming isn't saturated with sexual male characters and if a male character was shown in that regard it'd probably be more interesting than trite and overdone. Let's also not forget how few female characters there are, let alone good ones. Even so, it might still not bother you, but I respect the fact that you can see why some people would be bothered by it.
It doesn't cause harm in the conventional sense, just like it wouldn't cause any harm if women didn't show up in games at all or if all jokes would be Hungarian puns that don't translate into English. No person is harmed, they just miss out on what the medium could be while it's preoccupied ignoring them for their main consumer (In the example's case, Hungarian pun lovers who don't really care much for conventional jokes).
And, taking it into the realm of my purely personal critical opinion I'd prefer if the fan service just plain went and left. To me it really doesn't add anything, and it's so often where I'll see a character whose character design could have looked so much better if they weren't trying so hard to use as little clothing as possible. I don't mind if a character is sexy, if that indeed fits the character, so long that they aren't sexy before everything else. There's a reason why Elizabeth from Bioshock Infinite hasn't gotten any flack, despite being very widely considered attractive. Her character model just plainly looks good and is sensible for the character, and you don't need to be attracted to women to appreciate it.
You're absolutely right about this, the reaction to her character is not at all about her, which is a point that a lot of people seem to be missing. It's about the bigger problem which she represents. Just how many games are made and published that seem to be made with the assumption that the player is a heterosexual male.
Let me just say that I appreciate just how reasonable you are being with this, this thread is so full of vitriol and personal attacks that it's refreshing to be able to talk about it without it
I think I covered both of these points when answering Inquisitive Mug. It's difficult to come up with a relatable example as it's lacking the saturation in the medium and even if a character's wearing tight pants they're still generally not being treated as a sexual fantasy. It's just a weird design choice. Plus I think I could find more female characters showing more ass than ones that don'tScumdogSoldier said:
You. I missed responding to you when I left for work.AndyNPC said:
Just watched a video of her in the game. What's with the ridiculous amounts of boob jiggling? I think they're moving more than any limb on her body. The gameplay isn't as a bad as any of the character portraits, but the boob jiggling... How do they stay in the blouse?
You aren't the voice of reason. I've learned a couple of things from this discussion and all the others related to this on other forums/outlets.erttheking said:
:|
Easy. I've got no problem with the Sorcerer. Just trying to find some compromise to save this poor game from the massive weight of shit that's fallen upon it as of late. I personally don't think they should have to "cave," but that's the thing about compromise: you've got to give up something. And if we aren't talking about compromise, then there's really not much else to talk about. It's not like our position hasn't been made crystal clear by now.Abriael said:
I just joined this forum after hearing about it from the GAF forums. Anyway my two cents.
I don't think the designer should have apologized for doing what he wanted to do. He could have easily made that ummmm warrior in that post above, but I'd be cool playing with that character if that happened. I personally think that the developers of Dragon's Crown should have left the changes alone.
Then again, I don't like compromise (at least to a certain extent).
I don't think the designer should have apologized for doing what he wanted to do. He could have easily made that ummmm warrior in that post above, but I'd be cool playing with that character if that happened. I personally think that the developers of Dragon's Crown should have left the changes alone.
Then again, I don't like compromise (at least to a certain extent).
I assume you don't go shopping like
Which is the difference, these women in games are fighting things trying to kill her and instead of wearing full plate mail they are wearing what I just posted in the picture.
Look Sheeva even wears the same suit, but in red
Not to nitpick but in this instance isn't it a bit redundant what sheeva is wearing? sure she is dressed stupidly but in the very image you used in your example, shes squaring up against Jax a shirtless man(who has metal arms mind you) but none of the MK fighters use armour except Shao Kahn and a few others. Again i'll be the first to admit the leotard she is wearing is blatant sexualisation but there's many better examples of ridiculous impractical armour you could have picked?
Look Sheeva even wears the same suit, but in red
Fair point, the wizard isn't dressed very sensibly either. Another thing making the plot stupid. Come on, game-making-people, let's have a wizard wear a little armor. I'm sure it's nothing new, and it makes sense.teisjm said:
Yeah i love it when people compare breasts with genitalia. Sorry but in order for this comic to have been "spot on" the Sorceress would have had to have a defined "camel toe", then it would have a point.Yuuki said:Hahahah, oh christ that comic is so spot-on! I believe that one deserves to be posted in the open...well done Penny Arcade for pretty much summing up this whole thingModerated said:
Hey everyone, the thread made the news.
Arguing on internet forums suddenly became important.
http://www.destructoid.com/gearbox-artist-slams-dragon-s-crown-character-design-252826.phtml
Hurray.
Arguing on internet forums suddenly became important.
http://www.destructoid.com/gearbox-artist-slams-dragon-s-crown-character-design-252826.phtml
Hurray.
No the Sorceress isn't just "kinda there". Her design fits in with every other exaggerated design in the game. The argument that every character has a purpose except for her is a silly one, her purpose is the same as everyone elses in this side scrolling beat em up, to f**k up monsters. And no the artist should NEVER have to explain himself to crappy tabloid journalists at Kraptaku. Who drum up fake controversy for hits, since so called "gamers" these days get riled up over breasts.( but are almost always ok with graphic violence, odd)Sepko said:
Funny how for years you had characters like Mai Shiranui and B Janet of the KOF series, Dead or Alive and countless other titles,had no crap flung at them on this scale. Sorceress isn't any more well built than any of those characters. Where was your faux outrage then? Funny how this game of all games raises this much drama. Kraptaku is loving this though, because they are getting many hits. I sense a pattern with these people. They come out of the wood work and insult some dev in a passive aggressive/cowardly way, then the dev responds and tells them to screw off, at which time they begin attempting to play the victim and act like they just wanted to start a dialogue. But the big bad dev is such a jerk! This happened with David Jaffe, Hideki Kamiya and now George Kamitami. In Kamitami's case i think he was pretty classy in his response. In his place my response would have been way more...lets say rude. It would have been very justified considering how the artist has been attacked, called everything from a 14 year old, to a 5th grader and even borderline pedo!( good one Mr Scheier) Again funny how people call his maturity into question, all the while resorting to petty insults.
Best thing for great artists like Kamitami to do is to utterly ignore people like you and keep doing what they do best. This was his personal project and it looks great, like a newer version of Capcom's D&D side scrollers, with amazing art and cool looking characters. Like most of Vanillawars games. If anything comes from this faux controversy i hope it's more awareness to this game's existence which hopefully leads to more sales. Then your so called out rage at this one character ( in a game that has a wide variety of body types and designs) would be of some use.
I would say "blown out of proportion," but not "disingenuous."Canton said:
The problem is that in a landscape of such women, this seems like more of the same. At this point, any claims of stylisation and satire are difficult to cull from the rest of the crowd. It's sort of a variant of Poe's Law. This may be worsened by the presence of the other characters and the ignorance of them, but their presence doesn't eliminate the concept of sexism.
The puerile response from the artist really didn't help, either.
But more to the point, I would argue that this is sexist, but also fairly trivial, rather than that the sexism argument isn't honest. I think this is more a "straw that broke the camel's back" sort of thing, where people are getting tired of design choices and justifications, rather than a dishonest attempt by anyone.
You're pretending there's a progression and it's silly. there's no real absence of this sort of material, either. To pretend otherwise is just ridiculous. If you really need stripper characters in videos games, you can turn to almost the whole market.AndyNPC said:
Mostly in general, though with the beginning of the NES era we started having censorship in games. I know there was shit like custer's revenge and that the PC market's always had some level of sex games (even back when they were just low rest pixel bewbs), but we started seeing stuff edited even back then. And the strictures on a lot of foreign media were pretty severe. Have you seen how chopped up a lot of the anime was? I'd take gaming "censorship" over that in a heartbeat.The Inquisitive Mug said:
That exact sort of change predates all the criticism you're talking about. It's not quickly becoming anything.AndyNPC said:
A lot of people still come from the school of thought that armour and magic are at leasts partially mutually exclusive. It's a D&D thing. The real problem still comes in in the disparity between the genders and their clothing options. Then again, D&D isn't immune to this, either.Queen Michael said:
I can live with a world of heavily armoured warriors, lightly armoured theives and archers (though this doesn't entirely apply), and non-armoured mages. but even then, why is there such a disparity in clothes?
That DLC came out today. There are cases of fanservice in the retail game that are not censored. Something must have convinced Nintendo that selling the DLC as it was would have damaged sales.Zachary Amaranth said:
Speaking of D&D, nearly every group I played the game with had women playing the female characters. Some of those characters had a similar description to the Sorceress and the Amazon. So who are you to say that women hate it?