Gaming pranker and his family fall victim to extreme revenge prank

DataSnake

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strangeotron said:
this has nothing to do with freedom of speech. let's not have a bullshit argument about whether people have the right to sexually harass young women, or to shout 'FIRE!' in a crowded room, for example.

This is about a guy that broke the law, perhaps not the one the swat team thought. Frankly he should be taken to court for what he's done. Playing a prank online is one thing, talking trash is one thing (even though it's only idiots and wrestling fans that think it's funny), relenetless lurid sexual harassment of another (including getting your sad mates to spam them with messages) is another. This guy needs to be taken to court.
First off, let's look at the definition of sexual harassment:
From the EEOC:
"Unwelcome sexual advances, requests for sexual favors, or other verbal or physical conduct of a sexual nature when:
1. Submission to such conduct was made either explicitly or implicitly a term or condition of an individual's employment,
2. Submission to or rejection of such conduct by an individual was used as the basis for employment decisions affecting such individual, or
3. Such conduct has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual's work performance or creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive working environment."

From the UN:
"such unwelcome sexually determined behavior as physical contact and advances, sexually colored remarks, showing pornography and sexual demands, whether by words or actions. Such conduct can be humiliating and may constitute a health and safety problem; it is discriminatory when the woman has reasonable ground to believe that her objection would disadvantage her in connection with her employment, including recruitment or promotion, or when it creates a hostile working environment."

Now, since this dick had zero authority, that automatically rules out types 1 and 2. So let's look at the definition of "hostile environment" sexual harassment. Of course, this had nothing to do with employment or other necessities, but let's pretend for the moment that the same legal standards applied to recreation as to employment. In order to qualify as harassment, rather than just douche behavior, all five of the following conditions must be met:
1. He or she suffered intentional, unwanted discrimination because of his or her sex.
2. The harassment was severe or pervasive.
3. The harassment negatively affected the terms, conditions or privileges of his or her work environment.
4. The harassment would detrimentally effect a reasonable person of the same sex.

5. Management knew about the harassment, or should have known, and did nothing to stop it.

I'll hand you 1 and 2, but let's take a closer look at the rest:
3. The jackass in question had ZERO control over the "terms, conditions or priveleges" of her LIVE account. Now, had he been an admin threatening to ban her if she didn't post tits, then this condition would be met. As is, he's just an annoyance.
4. Here's a fun experiment for all the guys out there with LIVE IDs: log onto a game, unmute everyone, and see how long it takes for someone to call you a fag. I'll wait.
Back already? Damn, that was fast. Now, show of hands, how many of you will seriously consider never getting on LIVE again? Anyone? Okay, I guess it wasn't all that detrimental.
5. Not really applicable, as I'm not sure who "management" would be in this analogy.

TL;DR:
Harassment is the abuse of authority. No authority, no harassment.

Next, "shouting 'fire' in a crowded theater". That would be speech that has a high probability of resulting in actual physical harm. Trash talk over LIVE just doesn't cut it. Making a false police report resulting in a squad of armed men bursting into someone's house, by contrast, DOES.
 

AlexLoxate

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Simple. He thought he was cool when he harassed that girl, and when something happened to him he turned to the whole serious side. And calling that harassment an "innocent prank" is just sad.
 

junkmanuk

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DataSnake said:
Irrelevant bullshit snipped...
Your use of EOCC guidelines is a rather shabby straw man that has nothing to do with the subject matter.

Harassment is the abuse of your position to coerce another person to do your will. He escalated himself into a position of control within the extension of her personal space that the internet provides, and prevented her from engaging in as she was entitled to.

When people go onto internet sites they don't check in their right to personal freedoms and space. The sooner jackasses who find this kind of thing 'amusing' are removed from the internet the better.
 

Zakarath

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Mar 23, 2009
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http://xkcd.com/322/

...I have no stmpathy for this guy. His actions deserve to have consequences.
 

DataSnake

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junkmanuk said:
Your use of EOCC guidelines is a rather shabby straw man that has nothing to do with the subject matter.

Harassment is the abuse of your position to coerce another person to do your will. He escalated himself into a position of control within the extension of her personal space that the internet provides, and prevented her from engaging in as she was entitled to.

When people go onto internet sites they don't check in their right to personal freedoms and space. The sooner jackasses who find this kind of thing 'amusing' are removed from the internet the better.
1. I was responding to a claim that "he broke the law". In light of that, the LEGAL definition of harassment is VERY relevant.
2. "Escalated himself into a position of control" my ass. You responded to my post, does that put you in a "position of control" over me?
3. "Prevented her from engaging in as she was entitled to"? You are not ENTITLED not to be annoyed. There is no "internet law" against being a douche. And a good thing, too, since EVERYTHING is sure to offend SOMEONE.
4. "When people go onto internet sites they don't check in their right to personal freedoms and space." That includes freedom of speech. Here is a list of actions, the ones that violate people's freedoms in bold:

a. Hack their ID, use their credit card info to buy yourself a new car.
b. Find their address with GeoIP, then leave a bag of flaming dog poo on their front porch.
c. Send them annoying messages
d. Have a SWAT team sent to their house.

As you can see, one of those things is not like the others.
 

InsaneAlbino

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strangeotron said:
InsaneAlbino said:
No, I'm getting it. You think he's so terrible and that it was right for him to have a swat team called in on his house, and I think that he was pretty funny and definitely did not deserve that.
I have found myself in a situation in which someone was attempting to troll me. It's not too difficult to shut them down, so we don't have to hope for anything since it seems like I'm the only one with any internet common sense.
YOu aren't getting it at all. You've quite obviously not read anything i've written.

How do you shut down tens of spam messages sent to you after the troll in question petitions his idiot clan mates to blitzkrieg your gamertag?

Wake up dude.
If I haven't been reading anything you've been writing, it'd be pretty difficult to continue having an argument with you.

As to how you shut down the spam messages, you have me. There really is no way to stop them from being sent and you to receive them. What you do with them is another matter. Personally, I would report everyone that sent me a message to PSN (Microsoft, for her). But, if she can't manage to leave a game to avoid a troll, I wonder if she can manage to report someone.
 

Necromancer1991

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There's a word for people like this guy.....


But TBH there's a fine line between actual greifing and just being a asshat and this guys is one example, this isn't funny it's creepy and unsettling, if you want real goofy greifing look at these vids

Take note of how what they are doing is more funny than creepy, having people answer trivia questions while trapping them in the spawn, now that's funny, so is building so many building that they cant' leave the spawn, and wall-trapping people.
 

AndyFromMonday

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DataSnake said:
Since when did free speech cover harassment?

InsaneAlbino said:
But, if she can't manage to leave a game to avoid a troll, I wonder if she can manage to report someone.
Why should she be forced to leave a game due to an asshole? Yes, there are a lot of assholes on the internet but that does not mean their attitudes have to be defended. People shouldn't be forced to play by their rules just because it's a way to get rid of them.
 

AndyFromMonday

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DataSnake said:
AndyFromMonday said:
DataSnake said:
Since when did free speech cover harassment?
You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.
I keep using it? I reread my post and that's the only sentence in which harassment appears. Either way:

"Harassment covers a wide range of offensive behaviour. It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset. In the legal sense, it is behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing."
 

firedfns13

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WanderingFool said:
Does he deserve some kind of payback, yes. Does he deserve a SWAT team busting down his door, I think not...
That's pretty, fucking, awesomet that they came up with a way to get a swat team to bust his door down.
 

DataSnake

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AndyFromMonday said:
I keep using it? I reread my post and that's the only sentence in which harassment appears. Either way:

"Harassment covers a wide range of offensive behaviour. It is commonly understood as behaviour intended to disturb or upset. In the legal sense, it is behaviour which is found threatening or disturbing."
1. I was using a collective "you" to refer to the people claiming that trolling is sexual harassment.
2. From a LEGAL standpoint, this guy's behavior falls far short of the definition of harassment. Don't believe me? Call the cops and tell them someone was making fun of someone else over the internet, and see whether THEY are willing to start making arrests.
 

AndyFromMonday

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DataSnake said:
1. I was using a collective "you" to refer to the people claiming that trolling is sexual harassment.
I'm not saying it's sexual harassment. Hell, did I ever specified it was sexual harassment? It was just good plain old harassment.

DataSnake said:
From a LEGAL standpoint, this guy's behavior falls far short of the definition of harassment.
In what way does it fall short?
 

InsaneAlbino

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Nov 24, 2010
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AndyFromMonday said:
DataSnake said:
Since when did free speech cover harassment?

InsaneAlbino said:
But, if she can't manage to leave a game to avoid a troll, I wonder if she can manage to report someone.
Why should she be forced to leave a game due to an asshole? Yes, there are a lot of assholes on the internet but that does not mean their attitudes have to be defended. People shouldn't be forced to play by their rules just because it's a way to get rid of them.
I agree, no one should ever have to leave a game due to the amount of assholes on the internet. I offered up several other solutions to get him to stop other than leaving the game, all of which are tried and true and would have handled the situation much better than what how she was reacting.
But, she definitely did play by his rules and that's how it got escalated to the level it did. She responded exactly how he wanted her to (i.e. disgust, revulsion) which allowed him to keep going and going.
 

InsaneAlbino

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firedfns13 said:
WanderingFool said:
Does he deserve some kind of payback, yes. Does he deserve a SWAT team busting down his door, I think not...
That's pretty, fucking, awesomet that they came up with a way to get a swat team to bust his door down.
Do you also think it's awesome how much money they spent to respond just for some idiot to get revenge that was way too over the top for something that happened over the internet?
 

Eumersian

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Sep 3, 2009
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DJ Keemstar is quite vulgar indeed. I know that that's basically "teh interwebz" but still?

Sexual harassment is, pretty much all the time, not cool. The guy is a jackass, who deserved to have the shit scared out of him like that. I know it's a joke. In general, I don't mind prank calling, and stuff like that. I used to regularly listen to the 7:15 Senseless Survey on WZLX, where they would call somebody up, claim to be from the "Senseless Bureau" (although they said it real fast so it sounded like "census"), and ask questions like "How much wood could a wood chuck chuck is a wood chuck was high of amphetamines?"

That's funny because it's just surreal and random and silly. But pretending to cyber-sex somebody over XBox live? Not cool. Sex is almost always a line that is drawn. A line that people should be very careful to ever cross. Keemstar was not careful, and makes himself look like a douche, and now gets "busted" due to a return prank.

Some people, believe it or not (I'm talking to you Keemstar), do become very uncomfortable around sex. I have friends that do, so I don't talk about sex much near them. It's common courtesy. Never assume that the recipient will find this funny. Never assume that they would take it lightly. You legitimately made somebody quite uncomfortable, and suffered for your actions. Take it like a man.

That being said, don't make phony police calls.
 

AndyFromMonday

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InsaneAlbino said:
AndyFromMonday said:
DataSnake said:
Since when did free speech cover harassment?

InsaneAlbino said:
But, if she can't manage to leave a game to avoid a troll, I wonder if she can manage to report someone.
Why should she be forced to leave a game due to an asshole? Yes, there are a lot of assholes on the internet but that does not mean their attitudes have to be defended. People shouldn't be forced to play by their rules just because it's a way to get rid of them.
I agree, no one should ever have to leave a game due to the amount of assholes on the internet. I offered up several other solutions to get him to stop other than leaving the game, all of which are tried and true and would have handled the situation much better than what how she was reacting.
But, she definitely did play by his rules and that's how it got escalated to the level it did. She responded exactly how he wanted her to (i.e. disgust, revulsion) which allowed him to keep going and going.
So? Maybe she was a beginner or maybe she didn't know it was trolling. Maybe she didn't know how to mute people or maybe she didn't realize the guy was an asshole. Hell, maybe she was just really dumb. Who the fuck knows? There are a multitude of reasons why she ended up playing by his rules but that still in no way excuses his behavior.

Eumersian said:
Sexual harassment is,
This was not sexual harassment. It's, in fact, nowhere near sexual harassment and I'd appreciate it if you wouldn't call it that.