Gay characters in children's cartoons

[Caliostro]

1) Homosexuality is a divergence from the norm 2) You don't need to question your sexuality as many brainless liberals preach 3) Follow your own path, know what you are and live your life accordingly, regardless of what social engineering liberals have in the works.

Wait...What?

1) Homosexuality is a divergence from the norm 2) You don't need to question your sexuality [...] 3) Follow your own path, know what you are and live your life accordingly,[...]

Your tenants there are at odds mate. How can one truly know and follow a path they never questioned? That's not knowledge, that's blind allegiance.

You also start by pointing out, implying that it's relevant, that homosexuality is an outlier, a divergence from the norm. But then you say people should be who they regardless of other issues, including social norms. So... which is it?

 

[EuZic]

Ok, thank you for taking the time to answer to my post. The galactic thing was a joke, btw

In short, the thing you need to do is to stop judging people after your own sexuality. I don't mean this offensively, as I and most people I know have done this in the past and probably will do that at some point in the future.

It's only normal, however, you should be documenting your statements before well, stating them For example, the idea that sexuality is not variable or that everything besides straight is not normal. The majority does not dictate what's normal, not when it comes to gray areas like sexuality. As long as some LGTB people are born that way and are productive members of society living happy lives with the people they love... it's normal.

For an explanation about homosexual tendencies, look up Kinsey's scale of sexuality. I hope you realise these are of widely acclaimed statistics, that were milestones in understanding how humanity works and not just bullshit.

And I will ignore the part were you said that bullying is a natural part of life, because well... it sounds a lot like someone saying Auschwitz is a natural part of the jews' life just cuz they were not of pure race. I know this is overstating it but saying that bullying is natural for some is the actual bullshit here.

 

[Tax_Document]

Cartoons are about ENTERTAINMENT not LIFE LESSONS, when I was a kid I hated T.V shows that tried to teach me things.

 

[Pedro The Hutt]

You can be educational without being obnoxious or in your face about it y'know. =p

And do you also run from any game with a strong story then for that matter just in case it might contain a character who feels strongly about a certain moral or philosophy? Do you refuse to play a Total War game because it might make you learn more about the time period and country/continent featured in the game?

 

[Tax_Document]

You can be educational without being obnoxious or in your face about it y'know. =p

And do you also run from any game with a strong story then for that matter just in case it might contain a character who feels strongly about a certain moral or philosophy? Do you refuse to play a Total War game because it might make you learn more about the time period and country/continent featured in the game?

Well played Sir... Well played...

 

[CarlMin]

Cartoons are about ENTERTAINMENT not LIFE LESSONS, when I was a kid I hated T.V shows that tried to teach me things.

Well, it doesn't have to be so obvious that's annoying, regardless of what kind of moral lessons we are discussing.

 

[Matt Seegz]

It'll happen. Progressive ideas like that haven't been halted and the conservative influence in America still isn't strong enough to stop the train.

Honestly, I bet Sesame Street will probably be the first ones to break the ice. No, Bert and Ernie aren't gay, I know, but still. I just feel it, I don't know why, but they'll be the ones to do it.

Yes, conservatives will bellyache as they often do with anything good, but representing gay people is important, so fuckin' let 'em. There is NOTHING wrong with it. Not a goddamn thing, and no, I don't count people's gay panic and the contradictory nonsense of the religious right to be "proof" of anything but itself. I rely on good ol' science, and science tells us it's natural, even if you can't make babies from it.

I've written several stories with gay characters in them. I myself am bisexual... or going through an extremely long phase. Either way, It's important, and it'll get done, but the thing is, optimism won't do it. We've got to.

I need to stop before I end up sounding like I've ripped off Extra Credits.

Edit: Oh god, why can't I get achievements for Extra Credits or Moviebob? I actually prefer their shows to Yahtzee's.

 

[the D0rk One]

Ok... take a good hard look at today's society.

Do you think gay characters in children's cartoons can make it worse?

 

[Iwata]

I'm pretty sure Ren & Stimpy were gay. I've recently rewatched most of the original episodes, and it's pretty heavily hinted at that fact.

Also, if I may ask, why the need to represent all facets of society on a kid's show? Shows already cater to multiculturalism enough as it is.

 

[NDBurke]

Ok, I've read through everything, and I think some people aren't getting the original question. A Weary Exile asked about including "more or any" homosexual characters in a cartoons targeted towards youngsters. NOT, should every show have a token gay character.

Whether any characters in a series are LGBT is the sole decision of the writing staff. I don't think having more gay characters should be the goal, so much as Cartoons that promote acceptance of others. Because cartoons have classically either hidden homosexuality (classic case, Lexington from Gargoyles), or stamped it out entirely, an increase in the number of homosexual characters is only natural. So no, evening the playing field here is not 'invading' the sanctity of anyone's heterosexuality.

And in terms of the 'don't teach kids sex' crowd, kids still learn about relationships. We all knew that Belle hooked up with Beast, we just didn't know what "hooking up" entailed. So no, having homosexual characters does not automatically mean teaching sex.

 

[Matt Seegz]

Also, if I may ask, why the need to represent all facets of society on a kid's show? Shows already cater to multiculturalism enough as it is.

Oh god, I know. Multiculturalism. Bane of our privileged existence. Acknowledging that there are people who aren't white, straight, fit/thin, male and able-bodied living amongst us, breathing our god-given air. Heathens. It sickens me; absolutely sickens me.

Especially when they whine about being disrespected and made to seem like outcasts. "Oh waaaah, we're here too, it's not fair to us!" *****, I care about what's fair to ME! You're in MY life, and this is MY America.

TV shows typically produce content that is inclusive to everyone. What part of that offends you?

 

[cobra_ky]

3) ok, what if you're homosexual? how are you supposed to "know what you are" when people go out of their way to keep you from learning that gay people even exist?

If you're homo, you know it deep inside. If you're not, you know it deep inside. If you know you're not homo, but a retarded society insists that you MAY BE, this will undoubtedly affect kids and society is in for a long road down degeneration avenue.

maybe you're one of the lucky few who never questioned your sexuality, but i'm certainly not, and i'd wager most nonheterosexuals aren't either.

if kids knew deep inside what their sexuality was, it wouldn't affect them, now would it? Society would say "hey, you might be gay" and the kid would respond either with "Yep, I sure am" or "Nope, I'm straight". but it's rarely that clear cut for a child.

I think the notion of normality needs to be upheld at all costs. If it makes some gay kids get bullied at school, it's a part of their growing up and they should learn that normality is heterosexuality, that they're different and the social norms subject them to some logical discrimination, and that they should subscribe to normality in their social, but that they can do whatever they want in their private bedroom. I don't think normality is a bad thing. It's what keeps humanity from degenerating.

it used to be normal to treat black people as inferior to white people, too. what's so wonderful and sacred about normality?

Just think about pansexuals, people who have no notion of gender when it comes to choosing life partners and implicitly, the people they fall in love with. If falling in love with the core being of a person, regardless of the "package" that person comes in isn't a beautiful thing about being human, I don't know what is.

Are you seriously suggesting that another deviation like "pansexualism," whatever the hell that is, should be put to daylight? Falling in love is great, yes, but the pleasure of falling in love can't possibly be the core of human civilization.

No. the point is that people fall in love regardless of gender. That's reality, and how we educate our children should reflect that fact. We don't need to explain gay sex, or all the different elements of sexual attraction, because that's not important to a child's development. But sooner or later they're going to see a gay couple (if they're not being raised by one) and they'll want to understand why.

If we go over the fact that heterosexuality is normal, then there will, involuntarily, appear half-brained nihilists who want to experiment anal sex even though they don't have anything in common with the practice. Homosexuals should be aware of their deviance and live life like any person, but they need to acknowledge that there is such a thing as normality and that the bullshit plaguing this forum thread is nothing but quasi-nihilist PC babble.

now you've just completely lost me. PC nihilists having anal sex? what? (incidentally, many heterosexuals engage in anal sex, and many homosexuals don't.)

 

[TheMarshall]

Your tenants there are at odds mate. How can one truly know and follow a path they never questioned? That's not knowledge, that's blind allegiance.

Sexuality is not up to question. You don't question your sexuality just because liberal society tells you to. However, I would venture an assumption that an integral, self-secure person wouldn't even be bothered by such petty liberal machinations as promoting the dual sexuality culture. You're either straight or not. If not, no harm done, but just remain respectful to the norm.

You also start by pointing out, implying that it's relevant, that homosexuality is an outlier, a divergence from the norm. But then you say people should be who they regardless of other issues, including social norms. So... which is it?

Yes, if you're straight and you know you're straight, you shouldn't give a damn about the revolving progressive sexuality issue. Likewise, if you're gay, you shouldn't begin lobbying for "special rights" and acting like a victim. Live your life according to who you are. What's so confusing about that?

In short, the thing you need to do is to stop judging people after your own sexuality. I don't mean this offensively, as I and most people I know have done this in the past and probably will do that at some point in the future.

I'm certainly not judging people by their sexuality. If they're hard working, moral, and contribute to society and the state like any other person, there's no problem at all. I even support the entry of homosexuals in the military.

It's only normal, however, you should be documenting your statements before well, stating them For example, the idea that sexuality is not variable or that everything besides straight is not normal. The majority does not dictate what's normal, not when it comes to gray areas like sexuality. As long as some LGTB people are born that way and are productive members of society living happy lives with the people they love... it's normal.

I agree with the last part. I don't think sexuality shouldn't be dictated by the majority, though. As long as the human race is 90% or more predominantly heterosexual, I expect social norms, social programs and states to act in the interest of that majority primarily. Which isn't to say that homosexuals would be discriminated against - they would be regarded as equal to heterosexuals as far as social life is concerned.

And I will ignore the part were you said that bullying is a natural part of life, because well... it sounds a lot like someone saying Auschwitz is a natural part of the jews' life just cuz they were not of pure race. I know this is overstating it but saying that bullying is natural for some is the actual bullshit here.

Fallacious comparison. Bullying in school is not only natural, but it is also desirable. It makes kids choose their paths early in life. If they want to be part of the nerd gang, the one that occasionally gets beaten up but is uncontested in intelligence, or part of the jock gang, the one that only accepts buffed up and physically fit kids but perhaps lacks in the intelligence area. Moreover, getting into fights in teenage years mans you up for life.

You view only the beating. I view the beating and the results thereof.

 

[Iwata]

Also, if I may ask, why the need to represent all facets of society on a kid's show? Shows already cater to multiculturalism enough as it is.

Oh god, I know. Multiculturalism. Bane of our privileged existence. Acknowledging that there are people who aren't white, straight, fit/thin, male and able-bodied living amongst us, breathing our god-given air. Heathens. It sickens me; absolutely sickens me.

Especially when they whine about being disrespected and made to seem like outcasts. "Oh waaaah, we're here too, it's not fair to us!" *****, I care about what's fair to ME! You're in MY life, and this is MY America.

TV shows typically produce content that is inclusive to everyone. What part of that offends you?

See, this is why these discussions are pointless: because anyone who even remotely points out that there is such a thing as going too far with multiculturalism gets shouted down by "indignant" people. Enjoy your High Horse of Sarcasm.

 

[Matt Seegz]

Also, if I may ask, why the need to represent all facets of society on a kid's show? Shows already cater to multiculturalism enough as it is.

Oh god, I know. Multiculturalism. Bane of our privileged existence. Acknowledging that there are people who aren't white, straight, fit/thin, male and able-bodied living amongst us, breathing our god-given air. Heathens. It sickens me; absolutely sickens me.

Especially when they whine about being disrespected and made to seem like outcasts. "Oh waaaah, we're here too, it's not fair to us!" *****, I care about what's fair to ME! You're in MY life, and this is MY America.

TV shows typically produce content that is inclusive to everyone. What part of that offends you?

See, this is why these discussions are pointless: because anyone who even remotely points out that there is such a thing as going too far with multiculturalism gets shouted down by "indignant" people. Enjoy your High Horse of Sarcasm.

Perhaps if your argument didn't make it sound like you were expecting to greedily gobble up all the focus for yourself and everyone who looks/acts/quacks like you, then the other people who live in your universe might not object.

I'm still at a loss for why multiculturalism is a bad thing, when we live in a MULTICULTURAL SOCIETY. Sorry, that's not something you can just curl into your shell and hide from without looking like a crazy isolationist.

 

[TheMarshall]

maybe you're one of the lucky few who never questioned your sexuality, but i'm certainly not, and i'd wager most nonheterosexuals aren't either.

I'm not documented on the issue, but I'm pretty sure that questioning your sexuality has become a trend ever since liberalism has become progressive in the US and elsewhere and sexuality suddenly uprooted "discrimination" issues. I seriously have a hard time believing the utter bullshit that most heterosexuals question their sexuality at all. It's true of a small segment of the population, but where are you getting the "most" from?

it used to be normal to treat black people as inferior to white people, too. what's so wonderful and sacred about normality?

Why do you people always take the issue into the historical discrimination camp? And I hope you're joking about "what's sacred about normality." If you don't like normality, go live in anarchist Somalia.

No. the point is that people fall in love regardless of gender. That's reality, and how we educate our children should reflect that fact. We don't need to explain gay sex, or all the different elements of sexual attraction, because that's not important to a child's development. But sooner or later they're going to see a gay couple (if they're not being raised by one) and they'll want to understand why.

Yeah, well, I hope human society still has the decency to pull a plug on the porn industry. Kids need different values to guide them, not some politician's deranged dream to make all things equal and liberal because he doesn't bear any responsibility anyway, he's only in office to get a fat paycheck and buy a mansion on the beach.

now you've just completely lost me. PC nihilists having anal sex? what? (incidentally, many heterosexuals engage in anal sex, and many homosexuals don't.)

Please provide evidence for the parenthesis part.

 

[Iwata]

Also, if I may ask, why the need to represent all facets of society on a kid's show? Shows already cater to multiculturalism enough as it is.

Oh god, I know. Multiculturalism. Bane of our privileged existence. Acknowledging that there are people who aren't white, straight, fit/thin, male and able-bodied living amongst us, breathing our god-given air. Heathens. It sickens me; absolutely sickens me.

Especially when they whine about being disrespected and made to seem like outcasts. "Oh waaaah, we're here too, it's not fair to us!" *****, I care about what's fair to ME! You're in MY life, and this is MY America.

TV shows typically produce content that is inclusive to everyone. What part of that offends you?

See, this is why these discussions are pointless: because anyone who even remotely points out that there is such a thing as going too far with multiculturalism gets shouted down by "indignant" people. Enjoy your High Horse of Sarcasm.

Well maybe if your argument didn't make it sound like you were expecting to greedily gobble up all the focus for yourself and everyone who looks and quacks like you, then the other people who live in your universe might not object.

Come again? How exactly did my "argument" do ANY of the things you just said? You assume a lot from a couple of sentences, don't you? My point, if I ever made one, is this: these are pointless, because they're never arguments. They're a bunch of people agreeing on something pre-established, until someone disagrees and everyone can pile in on them. It's what this thread has seen, and it's how all these "debates" on these topics go.

Like I said: enjoy your High Horse.

 

[ConeFTW]

Not necessarily. Someone who is attracted to both genders is bisexual but someone who is only interested in the same gender is homosexual. There is also a difference between sex and love. You can love someone of the same gender and have sex with someone of the opposite gender and still be homosexual, as long as the sex is only for reproductive purposes. This is basically how homosexual people (who didnt want to be killed) lived up until probably the early 1900s and quite a few kept living that way due to the social stigma attached to being gay. (I should point out the year there will probably be wrong but I can imagine it being around then)

So you are suggesting these animals only have intercourse with the opposite sex to avoid being beaten up by the other animals? That they don't really "love" their opposite sex partner, and just do it to reproduce?

I'm not just suggesting it, it's a common occurrence in nature and in human history.

 

[Fawcks]

Firstly I have no problem with gays, you wanna be gay, do it, just keep it out of my face, just out of common courtesy. And anyone who has enough courage to admit they're gay, good for you, it takes a lot of balls to do something like that. Only strong people could manage something like that.

What do you consider keeping gay out of your face? Am I allowed to kiss my boyfriend? Hug him in public? Go to movies together? Hold hands? I'm curious, what do you consider too much of "shoving it in your face"?

If I'm being perfectly honest, you seem to be bigoted. Not to a large extent, and I may be being extremely unfair here, but I see this all the time. People want gay individuals (or in my case, bisexual, which seems to be equally hated by both hetero and homosexual individuals) to simply keep themselves in the closet their whole entire life, and if they so much as kiss outside a gay bar it's a huge affront to the life, liberty, and justice of those around them. You strike me as the sort that doesn't "hate" gay people, but you want to treat them as second class citizens because you're not comfortable with their lifestyle. Again, I may be being entirely unfair, and if that's the case, I'm open to hearing your side, but I have seen this "don't shove it in my face" deal where hetero sexual individuals don't want any displays of affection in public outside of when THEY do it. It's grossly unfair, and it's a similar kind of "double standard" that gave birth to the Jim Crow laws. Oh, people in the 50's didn't HATE black people, they just had to remember to keep their heads down, and not drink from the same fountains or go to the same schools.

Oh nothing at all is wrong with being gay, but these days it seems to be more of a fad than anything, just like being a goth or any other fad for highschool kids.

I don't think any sane individual would ever agree to taking it up the poop shoot just to look cool if they weren't into it, but okay, if that's your opinion, that's your right. I don't see how it changes anything, though, because there ARE legitimate individuals out there who ARE legitimately gay, and they deserve equal rights. As such, we fight for society to, in general, not villify or portray gay individuals as "sick", "wrong", or "abnormal". Sadly, a lot of popular media has a hard time portraying gay individuals as anything but... Well, gay.

So people are born with it? Not likely. That's rather ridiculous.

Why do you say that? I want your take on this. I have seen a couple of studies on the subject, for example, identical twin studies (70% more likely to both be gay as opposed to one gay one straight when compared to fraternal twins; although admittedly, many other studies with identical twins seemed to not agree, making the overall results inconclusive in my mind), and another possible hypothesis (the female's immune system targets a male fetus, since it is different, and after each pregnancy, becomes more adept at "feminizing" the fetus... Thus resulting in more individuals becoming gay when they're, say, the 3rd or 4th son as compared to the second or first). Again, it's hard to get massive backing for these studies, but to me, the hypothesis makes sense, the results seem to support it, it's the scientific method at work. I'm not saying everyone is born with it, but to say that the natural course of things has no imput on it is kinda silly. Do I think we'd have more openly gay individuals now if society did not, in some cases, shame and look down upon gay individuals? Yes. I know I was afraid to come out (referring to my bisexuality) for years because my mother told me being gay was disgusting and wrong, and that she would disown me if I were. I'm sure the reason why being gay is more prevalent now is because society, as a whole, is more accepting now than it was 30 years ago, though there's still a way to go.

I'm curious as to how you think people become gay, however. Do people just one day decide, "I'm gonna make my life, and my sex life a lot more complicated by being gay!", or do they wake up one day in their early teens or late pre-teens, see a picture of a hot guy, and get a rise out of that as opposed to from a hot girl?

 

[Matt Seegz]

Come again? How exactly did my "argument" do ANY of the things you just said? You assume a lot from a couple of sentences, don't you? My point, if I ever made one, is this: these are pointless, because they're never arguments. They're a bunch of people agreeing on something pre-established, until someone disagrees and everyone can pile in on them. It's what this thread has seen, and it's how all these "debates" on these topics go.

Like I said: enjoy your High Horse.

You said, "why the need to represent all facets of society on a kid's show? Shows already cater to multiculturalism enough as it is."

That's a pretty heavy idea. You stated that as a question, so don't feign surprise and distress just because I responded to it. I'll level with you: I don't much care for the mindsets at work behind isolationism, or xenophobia, or privilege, or the concepts themselves. Don't expect people to be. I'm not going to treat you with kid gloves. If you're mature enough to form a social observation and old enough to be able to understand multiculturalism as something you can question, then you should be ready to defend your opinions.

You entered your thoughts and ideas into a discussion and I responded to them with my own. That's how a forum works. If you didn't want people to reply, then posting is probably a bad idea.

But if you have an opposing position, then voice it, don't wet yourself and scream "UNCLE" as if I've wounded you.

And re: High Horse: I will enjoy it, and brudder, I can see for miles.