GDC 2011: EMP Expert Supports Realism of Homefront

ultrachicken

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SupahGamuh said:
Feriluce said:
That attitude of yours really does disgust me though. That americans eve think like that just make me dislike the country as a whole even more than I usually do.
Don't blame America, it's a great continent. Just Blame the US, not the continent.
Why are you insulting such a massive country based on what some random person over the internet said? You don't see me saying that I hate all of Denmark or Mexico just because I met two of those country's citizens who generalize about 310,000,000 people.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Feriluce said:
Therumancer said:
Blayze2k said:
IT *WILL* HAPPEN AND EVERYONE WILL DIE!

-_-'

That's some pretty intense sensationalism, there. Not to mention propaganda.
Fear-based politics are disgusting.
And while the game seems like it could have an interesting premise, this crap makes me not want to buy it.

Well, as far as that part goes he's right to an extent. Truthfully the USA is not as assertive as it needs to be, in that we are allowing foreign space programs and such to go ahead unopposed, making it increasingly probable that nations like North Korea, China, and others are going to put things in space. We already have China using lasers to blind our spy satellites.
I'm sorry. Allowing foreign space programs? What exactly do you plan on doing? Invading every country with a space program? If you tried that, I'm quite certain you'd regret it very quickly.
That attitude of yours really does disgust me though. That americans eve think like that just make me dislike the country as a whole even more than I usually do.

That's fine, your entitled to your opinion.

However, understand the context here. We're talking about a video game that is dealing with the possibility of satellite based EMP weapons. My point was that while the EMP portion of it isn't likely, the possibility for satellite based weapons being used on earth based targets has been a concern since The Cold War. Back then though we only had two groups capable of doing it, the USA and the USSR and we managed to keep each other in line since there were only two powers of note. Technology has progressed though and we're dealing with a lot of nations that are not culturally or ethically evolved enough for what they have, nations like North Korea are one of those nations, and the thing is that if Kim Jong Il *DID* gain the abillity to launch satellites he would probably try something very similar to what your seeing in this game, albiet he'd probably just put some nuclear missles on it as opposed to a fancy EMP weapon. Right now he's already trying to get to the point where he can hit Hawaii with missles so he can try and strongarm the US that way.

Now, I do understand that a lot of the world doesn't like the US, we're basically the "world police" and like cops we're never appreciated in doing our jobs and maintaining order until someone needs us, then the same people that do the complaining are first in line to come screaming to us for help. In a case like this with space programs, I don't think there is going to be much of a complaint about it, because anything that could be used on the US can be used on anyone else as well. I don't think ANYONE with half a brain thinks that guys like Kim Jong Il with orbital platforms is a good idea. Or at least none of the nations that really matter and are in a position to do anything about it do.

I was being brief in my post, and perhaps made it sound more inclusive than I was thinking. Nations like the UK, France, etc... placing satellites is fine, and that's been going on for a while. Russia has had one from pretty much the beginning, and was part of the initial balancing act. On the other hand nations like North Korea, China, Iran and others getting seriously into space is something that should be policed, and probably will be as they make further progress in that direction, the bulk of that policing like anything is going to fall to the US. The UN can't do it, because a lot of those nations are part of the UN and as such can stonewall any action there, which is why the UN is totally ineffective (ie the people it's supposed to have been policing are members).

I think you might be letting anti-US sentiment get ahead of you though. The bottom line is that games like "Homefront" in their premise show exactly why such policing is nessicary and why even going to war, or doing something like intercepting and destroying anything launched by certain nations, is a matter of nessecity. For something like "Homefront" to happen, people first have to be stupid enough to let a nation like North Korea develop a space program and launch a satellite entirely on their own.

For the most part second and third world nations *can* and do have a space prescence, but generally it happens by comissioning other nations to design, build, and launch the satellites so the civilized world knows what they can do before we put them up there. Some countries run a good business by doing that.

... and yes, I understand that everyone on the planet wants to see their people as having a hope for the future, and being part of space exploration when it happens. Unfortunatly reality is a bit differant, though I imagine the big steps will happen as a species after we eventually unify the planet into a single global unity. If that never happens, we're dead anyway, so it no longer matters.
 

Feriluce

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Therumancer said:
Feriluce said:
Therumancer said:
Blayze2k said:
IT *WILL* HAPPEN AND EVERYONE WILL DIE!

-_-'

That's some pretty intense sensationalism, there. Not to mention propaganda.
Fear-based politics are disgusting.
And while the game seems like it could have an interesting premise, this crap makes me not want to buy it.

Well, as far as that part goes he's right to an extent. Truthfully the USA is not as assertive as it needs to be, in that we are allowing foreign space programs and such to go ahead unopposed, making it increasingly probable that nations like North Korea, China, and others are going to put things in space. We already have China using lasers to blind our spy satellites.
I'm sorry. Allowing foreign space programs? What exactly do you plan on doing? Invading every country with a space program? If you tried that, I'm quite certain you'd regret it very quickly.
That attitude of yours really does disgust me though. That americans eve think like that just make me dislike the country as a whole even more than I usually do.

Stuff
Wow. Just wow. If this is the thought process of the majority of US citizens, I think we should all welcome a scenario like the one displayed in homefront.

Edit: And now I cant get this song out of my head.

 

Andy of Comix Inc

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Apr 2, 2010
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If all the electricity went off, that'd end America as we know it?!

JUST LIVE LIKE THE AMISH THEN YA BLOODY YANKS. No need to threaten other nations into submission. Just cut back your reliance on frickin' electricity! PROBLEM SOLVED.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Feriluce said:
Therumancer said:
Feriluce said:
Therumancer said:
Blayze2k said:
IT *WILL* HAPPEN AND EVERYONE WILL DIE!

-_-'

That's some pretty intense sensationalism, there. Not to mention propaganda.
Fear-based politics are disgusting.
And while the game seems like it could have an interesting premise, this crap makes me not want to buy it.

Well, as far as that part goes he's right to an extent. Truthfully the USA is not as assertive as it needs to be, in that we are allowing foreign space programs and such to go ahead unopposed, making it increasingly probable that nations like North Korea, China, and others are going to put things in space. We already have China using lasers to blind our spy satellites.
I'm sorry. Allowing foreign space programs? What exactly do you plan on doing? Invading every country with a space program? If you tried that, I'm quite certain you'd regret it very quickly.
That attitude of yours really does disgust me though. That americans eve think like that just make me dislike the country as a whole even more than I usually do.

Stuff
Wow. Just wow. If this is the thought process of the majority of US citizens, I think we should all welcome a scenario like the one displayed in homefront.

Edit: And now I cant get this song out of my head.


Oh your trolling, got it. :p

Though I admit it would be kind of amusing if North Korea did do that because with the US out of the way, the rest of the world would be in the same shape soon after (I mean if he's going after the US, and has that much power, why wouldn't he just use it on everyone else as well?).

I'm also kind of partial to this song

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1lAENxSMH6o&feature=fvst

Not the best version/performance of it though.
 

Feriluce

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Apr 1, 2010
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Therumancer said:
Feriluce said:
Therumancer said:
Feriluce said:
Therumancer said:
Blayze2k said:
IT *WILL* HAPPEN AND EVERYONE WILL DIE!

-_-'

That's some pretty intense sensationalism, there. Not to mention propaganda.
Fear-based politics are disgusting.
And while the game seems like it could have an interesting premise, this crap makes me not want to buy it.

Well, as far as that part goes he's right to an extent. Truthfully the USA is not as assertive as it needs to be, in that we are allowing foreign space programs and such to go ahead unopposed, making it increasingly probable that nations like North Korea, China, and others are going to put things in space. We already have China using lasers to blind our spy satellites.
I'm sorry. Allowing foreign space programs? What exactly do you plan on doing? Invading every country with a space program? If you tried that, I'm quite certain you'd regret it very quickly.
That attitude of yours really does disgust me though. That americans eve think like that just make me dislike the country as a whole even more than I usually do.

Stuff
Wow. Just wow. If this is the thought process of the majority of US citizens, I think we should all welcome a scenario like the one displayed in homefront.

Edit: And now I cant get this song out of my head.


Oh your trolling, got it. :p
Not really to be quite honest. That song and the movie its from is satire, but it seems you take it seriously. If you seriously believe that america is supposed to be some kinda world police, then your world view clearly needs some heavy adjusting.
 

Therumancer

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Nov 28, 2007
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Feriluce said:
[
Not really to be quite honest. That song and the movie its from is satire, but it seems you take it seriously. If you seriously believe that america is supposed to be some kinda world police, then your world view clearly needs some heavy adjusting.
Well, the song and the movie is satire, however it was a satire for greatly exagerrating the reality of the situation.

The bottom line is as I explained, nobody elected us to that role, but at the same time whenever something needs to be done, we're the people the world goes to. It's just that nobody wants to be on the receiving end of what amounts to a police action. Attitudes about America vary greatly depending on how much whatever we do interferes with their immediate interests.

That said, we're not likely to agree in a general sense, and I'm used to that. However I would be VERY surprised if you think that there is no problem with someone like Kim Jong Il running a space program so he could mount weapons like that. Especially seeing as those weapons could be used on anyone, not just us. Heck, he would probably get further targeting nations other than the US (subject of the video game aside) for the reasons I pointed out. If it isn't the US that stops it, who do you think is going to do so? Who else has the resources or the leadership to pull it off? To be honest if it did come to something like this, the US isn't likely to intervene alone, I think we'd be insturmental in it, but I think a lot of other nations would be right there behind us.

See, that's the problem with screaming about the whole "OMG, someone needs to stop America" thing and making jokes about the "Team America" movie. In the end I don't think many sane people want these little despot nations to be wielding that kind of power, and somebody has to stop them.

Let's say you got your dream, North Korea wipes out the USA with EMP and for some reason none of the things I mentioned happen in retaliation. Now what happens when Kim decides to come for YOUR country? The weapon is just as powerful and devestating to everyone else as it would be to us, and if it brings down the dominant global superpower, less powerful nations are going to have no chance at all. Is it not better to prevent a situation like that from ever arising in the first place?

Even if you really hate the USA, consider that even most of our critics tend to admit we're the lesser of evils. Despite poking our noses into things, we pretty much leave most nations to their own devices. I think anyone who thinks Kim Jong Il blanketing the world with EMP and taking over is an improvement, might want to reconsider their priorities a bit.

When it comes to comments about potentially invading countries to stop the development of things like satellites which can carry weapons, it's not like they are just going to stop because they are asked nicely. Again, what's the lesser of two evils, the invasions and limited scale conflicts, or someone wiping out the civilized world one region at a time with orbital death weapons?

Of course this is a purely academic arguement because nobody is really developing that kind of thing right now, the closest to becoming a real space-based threat is China and it remains to be seen what is going to happen on that front. I think an East Vs. West war is inevitable for a lot of reasons, and liable to break out for other reasons before anyone gets concerned about the possibility of orbital EMP weapons or people putting missles in orbit over each other's heads, with those things being developed as part of the war itself if at all.
 

jimduckie

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Mar 4, 2009
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gee ... considering that most of our electronic toys come from asia ,korea ,japan i seriously dout they would use an emp to destroyour toys ... it would be away to get us to buy new stuff

as for me , if it happened the labor rates i charge would be so high i'd survive ... yes i am a mech tech ,turning a wrench is my life and passion ... go learn a trade
 

Saucycarpdog

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HAHAHAHAHA, and people said North Korea wasn't crazy enough to do it:

http://www.newsroomamerica.com/story/107944.html
 

Itsthatguy

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Jan 22, 2011
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Just so that everybody can be clear on what an EMP actually does, im going to run over it.

An Electromagnetic pulse is a pulse of electromagnetic radiation, essentially just a pulse of light across a wide spectrum. Radio waves produced by an EMP induce a huge voltage in electronic devices, shorting them out. Sounds complex? Ever left a phone next to a speaker? Heard the sounds produces when the phone sends out a signal? Your phone has just induced a voltage in the speaker when it produced radiowaves. A quick burst of this, several million times more powerful, and you have a pretty good simulation of an EMP pulse.

While the Expert is right when he says that an EMP strike could devistate America, he conviniently forgot to mention something known as EM shielding. That thing that virtually all nuclear weapons are protected with. The thing that would allow America to keep all of its nuclear capabilities intact after an EMP strike.

So North Korea disables all of the civilian infrastructure of America, which if its invasion is successful it is going to have to replace anyway, but leaves Americas nuclear capabilities intact, allowing for massive retaliation. Realism ftw.
 

norleaf

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Jan 22, 2010
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Jamous said:
Well that turned out surprisingly dark. As fear-mongering as it is, the man -does- address the, probably very real, possibility. But then he goes talking about pre-emptive strike bullshit. You could just start setting up defences for that sort of thing, surely?
Heh. Yeah. Have spare parts for electronic components at powerplants. It's not like all the power lines will melt at an EMP burst, just electronic boards, computers CPUs and weak electronic stuff. BUT: Everything not currently being powered will not be damaged. So, after the strike, just replace the controllers and restart the generators manually.

There is another reason to take it easy for the time being. Even with the power of an A-bomb a few kilometres above a city, some of the city electronics will survive. So how the ... will Korea find a powersource strong enough to target ALL of a continent from SPACE???

It doesnt seem that likely to me...