Gena Davis institute on Gender in media tries to link violent games to mass shootings and police violence

Dwarvenhobble

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So women were allowed to apply for kingship, conquistadorial roles, military positions, ect...
Queens existed. But yes you are right in the past those roles were limited by gender. We don't presently live in the past though.

Nursing, secretarial, many other "human relations" jobs that supposedly playing to the strengths of women are usually much lower paying than one that play to to the strengths of men.
Because some of the strength of men jobs have additional risk or strain associated with them thus often pay more due to an expected lower retirement age or age when people are no longer capable of doing the job. It's why you tend not to see 60 year olds working building sites but you might see them in secretarial work.


Again, it doesn't play out that way in the real world. Welcome to Capitalism.
Hasn't stopped a number of talking heads becoming pretty damn influential without initially having the money. The money coming after in the end.


It was, but one of the effects besides it's influence on election law was that it bestowed the rights of individuals to corporations.
Has that idea ever been challenged in court because it would seem more like something that should only apply to Pacs / Super Pacs not every corporation ever.

Yes. They were before your time, but not mine. I have a functioning memory. That throws a lot of political rhetoric off. I remember well what conservatives shoved down my throat one time, then what they try to shovel in it now.

As for conservative standards not throwing people under the bus for creative endeavors, ask Matt and Trey about the episode "Board Girls" where they DARED showed girls being tabletop gamers.
Isn't that the one people got really upset at South Park for because it mocked the idea of 0 effort gender transitioning just based on a persons say so and got a lot of the normal woke lot very upset at the show? I don't remember any controversy over showing women playing Tabletop games. I remember other stuff people tried to shove down people throat (the Harry Potter is Satanic stuff anyone?) and the thing being I'm seeing the new stuff trying to be shoved down peoples throats too and seeing little difference in it beyond the colour it's been painted.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Then you either weren't paying attention, or are now fibbing.
Well in the main campaign there's only I think 1 stories section with women in it and neither of them had a prosthetic arm. So again pretty sure she didn't appear in game and I again say people weren't objecting to the box art, at least none I saw. If you'd like to show that some were feel free.



There's a difference in that the second one is a ridiculous fabrication that you've come up with to badmouth your opponents.
Oh right because normally using "Alt-Rigt, Pissbaby Manchildren who don't deserve things" is so much better right?

I don't have to fabricate stuff to badmouth my opponents I just let their friends and allies provide the rather impressive amount of ammo to show how badly said side is acting.

There's still near daily people on twitter saying words to the effect of "Pissbaby gamers are stupid The Last of Us Part II is a masterpiece and they're too dumb to see that"


By who, exactly?

By a vanishingly small number of people on the internet.

Meanwhile, it has an estimated readership of over 2 million, higher than almost any other paper, excluding only the Sun. It's one of the most influential media outlets in the country.

The Daily Mail was considered a big joke. Again 2 Million. Are we sure that's not just takeaways and some Dentists studios buying it to put out as cheap reading material?
 

Silvanus

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Well in the main campaign there's only I think 1 stories section with women in it and neither of them had a prosthetic arm. So again pretty sure she didn't appear in game and I again say people weren't objecting to the box art, at least none I saw. If you'd like to show that some were feel free.
Google it.

Oh right because normally using "Alt-Rigt, Pissbaby Manchildren who don't deserve things" is so much better right?
Well it's a lot better than "don't deserve to live", yes-- you can't just endlessly exaggerate and exaggerate and exaggerate, and then project the imaginary monster you've dreamt up onto your opponents. You essentially accused your opponents of wishing death on others and then immediately backtracked-- talk about demonising those you disagree with.

I don't have to fabricate stuff to badmouth my opponents I just let their friends and allies provide the rather impressive amount of ammo to show how badly said side is acting.
Right, but nobody has said that shit. It's just you making endless gross accusations. Again.

There's also endless people on Twitter calling people Liberal "cucks" or "retards" and accusing them of wanting to destroy free speech or America or whatever other nonsense. Maybe let's not look to Twitter shit-slingers and use them to characterise our political opponents elsewhere, eh?


The Daily Mail was considered a big joke. Again 2 Million. Are we sure that's not just takeaways and some Dentists studios buying it to put out as cheap reading material?
If you don't recognise the enormous reach the Daily Mail has, that's on you. Anyone with a working knowledge of the UK media landscape knows how big it is. The fact that online left-wingers take the piss out of it doesn't change its massive readership in Middle England.
 

Agema

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If you don't recognise the enormous reach the Daily Mail has, that's on you. Anyone with a working knowledge of the UK media landscape knows how big it is. The fact that online left-wingers take the piss out of it doesn't change its massive readership in Middle England.
This is an interesting point, because many members of the public claim to not trust the reliability of the newspapers they read - particularly the tabloids. Thus at some level there clearly is awareness that they can be full of shit.

However, whether readers actively apply that general awareness to articles they read is another matter. The fallibility that they abstractly think may exist doesn't necessarily equate to skepticism in practice. It also perhaps misses ways that newspapers direct their reader's thoughts, which is a lot more than "lying" to their readership. This can be through numerous ways, one of the simplest being gatekeeping what news to cover. In many cases, it is about eliciting emotional reactions (particularly more the opinion pages), where the content is secondary to tugging heart strings or inciting outrage - even if the article facts are shown to be nonsense, that emotional link provides inspires defence of the concept of the article: e.g. "Well, sure, these particular immigrants didn't actually commit that crime, but immigrants cause a lot of crime, everyone knows it."

Readership therefore obviously does matter. News media can be a sort of echo chamber: people use certain news organisations because they believe certain things, and the news organisation flatters their world view by confirming and exaggerating what they want to believe rather than challenging it. This is why many media organisations can be so dishonest: it is easier to sell news and opinion telling people what they want to hear than telling them the truth.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Google it.
Well the cover lady (revealed later after the trailer and the hubub happened to begin with) is Major Wanda Gertz and unless she appears breifly in the
Tirailleur or The Last Tiger campaign segments she's not actually in the game at all other than maybe a cosmetic skin of her. The Bionic woman from the trailers doesn't appear in game at all.

So yeh I did google it to make sure and she doesn't have a elite skin in game so if you have info I don't feel free to present it but all avaliable info says neither character appears anywhere in the actual game.



Well it's a lot better than "don't deserve to live", yes-- you can't just endlessly exaggerate and exaggerate and exaggerate, and then project the imaginary monster you've dreamt up onto your opponents. You essentially accused your opponents of wishing death on others and then immediately backtracked-- talk about demonising those you disagree with.
Oh right sorry I guess the idea is they deserve to live not have lives worth actually living and allowed now joy. You know that may be worse than what I'm claiming is an exaggeration because it would be a life of torment rather than an easy escape.

I don't need to accuse opponents of wishing death on people when they've tried to deliver it before



Right, but nobody has said that shit. It's just you making endless gross accusations. Again.

There's also endless people on Twitter calling people Liberal "cucks" or "retards" and accusing them of wanting to destroy free speech or America or whatever other nonsense. Maybe let's not look to Twitter shit-slingers and use them to characterise our political opponents elsewhere, eh?
You mean other than a few years ago when I actually had some idiots on twitter telling me to kill myself because they disagreed with me, they were listed as a journalist for a publication I won't name just yet either?

Right so calling people names is the same scale to you as advocating people but shut down as much as possible and denied any positions with any kind of power at all?
So about the cries of calling people Chuds and pissbabies, or are those acceptable terms and somehow exempt?




If you don't recognise the enormous reach the Daily Mail has, that's on you. Anyone with a working knowledge of the UK media landscape knows how big it is. The fact that online left-wingers take the piss out of it doesn't change its massive readership in Middle England.
It may have reach but I'd say little actual impact.
 

Silvanus

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Well the cover lady (revealed later after the trailer and the hubub happened to begin with) is Major Wanda Gertz and unless she appears breifly in the
Tirailleur or The Last Tiger campaign segments she's not actually in the game at all other than maybe a cosmetic skin of her. The Bionic woman from the trailers doesn't appear in game at all.
I meant people complaining about the box art.

Out of interest, why is it important for the BF5 box art to depict an in-game character? That's never been important to BF before.

Oh right sorry I guess the idea is they deserve to live not have lives worth actually living and allowed now joy. You know that may be worse than what I'm claiming is an exaggeration because it would be a life of torment rather than an easy escape.
Just more endless hyperbole and demonisation of your opponents, worth ignoring.

I don't need to accuse opponents of wishing death on people when they've tried to deliver it before
Ah, okay! Because right-wingers have neeeeever taken part in shootings. Gotcha.


You mean other than a few years ago when I actually had some idiots on twitter telling me to kill myself because they disagreed with me, they were listed as a journalist for a publication I won't name just yet either?
...and lefties in general (like me) can be blamed for stuff like that, can we? "Friends and allies", that's what you said.

When I get random assholes on discord or Ingame chat calling me various slurs or telling me the same thing, can I extrapolate that to all right-wingers as you do with left-wingers?

Right so calling people names is the same scale to you as advocating people but shut down as much as possible and denied any positions with any kind of power at all?
So about the cries of calling people Chuds and pissbabies, or are those acceptable terms and somehow exempt?
More strawmanning and demonisation.

I'm just not going to bother responding whenever you devolve to the usual strawman accusations about what I believe.
 

AnxietyProne

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Queens existed. But yes you are right in the past those roles were limited by gender. We don't presently live in the past though.
Yet that doesn't stop people from constantly pining for it, now dos it?

Because some of the strength of men jobs have additional risk or strain associated with them thus often pay more due to an expected lower retirement age or age when people are no longer capable of doing the job. It's why you tend not to see 60 year olds working building sites but you might see them in secretarial work.
Thank you for confirming my point. They still pay more.

Hasn't stopped a number of talking heads becoming pretty damn influential without initially having the money. The money coming after in the end.
Such as....

Has that idea ever been challenged in court because it would seem more like something that should only apply to Pacs / Super Pacs not every corporation ever.
If it has, it's lost it's case.

Isn't that the one people got really upset at South Park for because it mocked the idea of 0 effort gender transitioning just based on a persons say so and got a lot of the normal woke lot very upset at the show? I don't remember any controversy over showing women playing Tabletop games.
Look at the comment section on anything showing the episode "Board Girls." Matt and Trey were straight up accused of being Woke now.

Oh, and...

So about the cries of calling people Chuds and pissbabies, or are those acceptable terms and somehow exempt?
If Cuck, Soyboy, Bugmen, and using Communist/Marxist to describe anything to the left of Pinochet is, then yes.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Yet that doesn't stop people from constantly pining for it, now dos it?
Far less people than you likely think.

Thank you for confirming my point. They still pay more.
So you're saying they shouldn't even though said jobs often take quite a toll on peoples bodies such that they cannot carry them on for as long?

Such as....
Well Joe Rogan didn't start out rich, nor did Anita Sarkeesian or Lindsey Ellis or Red Letter Media and I'm pretty sure Yahtzee would happily admit he wasn't rich and isn't rich now but Zero Punctuation is fairly influential.

If it has, it's lost it's case.
So it hasn't or we'd have heard about it.

Look at the comment section on anything showing the episode "Board Girls." Matt and Trey were straight up accused of being Woke now.

Oh, and...
You sure on that and it's not some idiots trying to parody what they imagine said people are like to try and own them?


If Cuck, Soyboy, Bugmen, and using Communist/Marxist to describe anything to the left of Pinochet is, then yes.
So we've got to the point of admitting it happens on both sides very much but the full context of that was Silvanus arguing that one side saying anything insulting was trying to shut down the the other so is this you suggesting it's fine on both sides or that both sides are trying to shut down the other?

On a totally unrelated note any specific requests for things for your spot in the pit before you end up down here?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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You're a republican senator?
Don't be obtuse, people actually turned up and shot senators. It's not the only kind of incident either, see the time some-one drove at a republican campaigning tent. Some people are seeing their actions of trying to kill people on one side as totally fine and justified.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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I meant people complaining about the box art.
Yet the controversy started from the trailer reveal, the box reveal happened later.

Out of interest, why is it important for the BF5 box art to depict an in-game character? That's never been important to BF before.
Oh I don't know maybe when a company puts out a statement about how the game will show the untold stories of real women, then doesn't actually tell the stories of real women in WWII despite having a real WWII woman on the box. Seems very much like she was just being used for advertising and to deflect not some sincere belief.


Just more endless hyperbole and demonisation of your opponents, worth ignoring.
How it it hyperbole well Moviebob Exists?


How is it hyperbole when there were people literally hoping for a plague to kill off some of the republicans before?

How is it hyperbole when if some right wing figure ends up ill there's literally stream of people going "I hope they die painfully" etc etc.?

It's not Hyperbole when this shit is happening, It's reality!



Ah, okay! Because right-wingers have neeeeever taken part in shootings. Gotcha.
Didn't say that did I?

But I guess that means it's all fine for both sides or not an issue when it happens to one side because "Hu they are de enemy" or something or seen as holding back progress or something.


...and lefties in general (like me) can be blamed for stuff like that, can we? "Friends and allies", that's what you said.

When I get random assholes on discord or Ingame chat calling me various slurs or telling me the same thing, can I extrapolate that to all right-wingers as you do with left-wingers?
Maybe it's something to do with the strange attitude that's developed of "Screw you we won't admit this is a problem" or "It's fine when we do it".

Oh and some random asshole in game is rather not equal to a verified journalist on twitter


More strawmanning and demonisation.

I'm just not going to bother responding whenever you devolve to the usual strawman accusations about what I believe.
Except that was the strange position you were presenting that the use of such insult was equivocal to attempt to stop people holding any kind of position.
 

Silvanus

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Oh I don't know maybe when a company puts out a statement about how the game will show the untold stories of real women, then doesn't actually tell the stories of real women in WWII despite having a real WWII woman on the box. Seems very much like she was just being used for advertising and to deflect not some sincere belief.
I can't find any statement claiming that the people portrayed in the "untold stories" would be real or historical figures.


How it it hyperbole well Moviebob Exists?
1) He didn't say you "don't deserve to live". In fact, nothing in those tweets is particularly more severe than about a dozen things posted on this board every day, including by yourself.

2) You said "friends and allies". I have nothing whatsoever to do with Bob Chipman.

Didn't say that did I?

But I guess that means it's all fine for both sides or not an issue when it happens to one side because "Hu they are de enemy" or something or seen as holding back progress or something.
You specifically attributed the attempted mass shooting to your "opponents". You're the one trying to use shootings to characterise your enemies.

Maybe it's something to do with the strange attitude that's developed of "Screw you we won't admit this is a problem" or "It's fine when we do it".

Oh and some random asshole in game is rather not equal to a verified journalist on twitter
So you're saying a verified journalist for a legitimate publication told you that?

Obviously, if that happened, it's absolutely unacceptable and grotesque.

Regardless, using it to tar your opponents online in general ("friends and allies") is also unacceptable.

Except that was the strange position you were presenting that the use of such insult was equivocal to attempt to stop people holding any kind of position.
You're literally the only person so far to bring up "attempting to stop people holding any kind of position", so pretending that I said anything of the sort is ridiculous.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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I can't find any statement claiming that the people portrayed in the "untold stories" would be real or historical figures.
EA's own website

Part of the Battlefield™ V journey through a never-before-seen portrayal of World War 2 takes place across an anthology of single-player tales, known as War Stories. In these, you’ll play untold, unexpected stories of human drama set against global conflict through four firsthand accounts inspired by real places and events.
Gamasutra

"Battlefield V is a lot about the unseen, the untold, the unplayed," he continued. "The common perception is that there were no women in World War II. There were a ton of women who both fought in World War II and partook in the war."
"These are people who are uneducated—they don't understand that this is a plausible scenario, and listen: this is a game,"
So why again were there none of these untold tales of about women based on first hand accounts in the actual game again?



1) He didn't say you "don't deserve to live". In fact, nothing in those tweets is particularly more severe than about a dozen things posted on this board every day, including by yourself.

2) You said "friends and allies". I have nothing whatsoever to do with Bob Chipman.
No not directly but this is Bob "No bad tactics only bad targets" so yeh in the name of progress pressumably anything goes as long as it's against those "On the wrong side of history" or whatever.

Also like it or not Bob is an ally of the Ideology some seem to support.


You specifically attributed the attempted mass shooting to your "opponents". You're the one trying to use shootings to characterise your enemies.
And yet he very much went and tried and did it and funny how there was barely any push to denounce the actions at the time or since it's mostly been uncomofotably shuffled under the rug along with the masses of tweets hoping those shot died in hospital.


So you're saying a verified journalist for a legitimate publication told you that?

Obviously, if that happened, it's absolutely unacceptable and grotesque.

Regardless, using it to tar your opponents online in general ("friends and allies") is also unacceptable.
yes it was and why is it not acceptable it keeps happening and get ignored for the most part. I mean people were upset about The Last Jedi and it was all over te publications about awful manbabies who should realise Star Wars is not for them now. Reylo fans send so much harassment and abuse to a Star Wars social media manager that she leaves social media? Barely a peep about it.

Masses are articles about Fearless Girl being an icon of fighting the patriarchy and the power of women, very few about the company that paid for it to be installed losing a massive lawsuit over sexual discrimination in pay such that some women were being paid only 40% what some Male colleagues were getting


You're literally the only person so far to bring up "attempting to stop people holding any kind of position", so pretending that I said anything of the sort is ridiculous.
No it's not ridiculous it's pointing out you trying to equate basically playground insults to co-ordinated attempts to shut people down and remove them from any platform they have.
 

Silvanus

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EA's own website
"Inspired by".

Gamasutra
...And neither of these quotes say that the stories will be literally portraying real historical figures.

No not directly but this is Bob "No bad tactics only bad targets" so yeh in the name of progress pressumably anything goes as long as it's against those "On the wrong side of history" or whatever.

Also like it or not Bob is an ally of the Ideology some seem to support.
"He didn't say it but [insert distracting blather]"

I don't really care about your gripes about other shit he's said. He didn't say what you claimed. Let's move on.

And yet he very much went and tried and did it and funny how there was barely any push to denounce the actions at the time or since it's mostly been uncomofotably shuffled under the rug along with the masses of tweets hoping those shot died in hospital.
None of this addresses what I wrote.

You attempted to use the shooting to tar your opponents.


yes it was and why is it not acceptable it keeps happening and get ignored for the most part. I mean people were upset about The Last Jedi and it was all over te publications about awful manbabies who should realise Star Wars is not for them now. Reylo fans send so much harassment and abuse to a Star Wars social media manager that she leaves social media? Barely a peep about it.

Masses are articles about Fearless Girl being an icon of fighting the patriarchy and the power of women, very few about the company that paid for it to be installed losing a massive lawsuit over sexual discrimination in pay such that some women were being paid only 40% what some Male colleagues were getting
Would you be willing to provide the tweet? Genuine request.

Happy to have it in PM form if you'd prefer.

No it's not ridiculous it's pointing out you trying to equate basically playground insults to co-ordinated attempts to shut people down and remove them from any platform they have.
I never did this.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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"Inspired by".
Which turns out they didn't do for women.


...And neither of these quotes say that the stories will be literally portraying real historical figures.
No but you'd think inspired by would somehow related to them.

Then again it's EA who took the known of a well known resistance fighter who fought the Nazis and made him into one of the special Nazi elite skins so that says about the level they're working at in terms of knowledge for history there.


"He didn't say it but [insert distracting blather]"

I don't really care about your gripes about other shit he's said. He didn't say what you claimed. Let's move on.
So no bad tactics only bad targets means there still are bad tactics?




None of this addresses what I wrote.

You attempted to use the shooting to tar your opponents.
1) yes it does think on it.
2) You mean like how every single time anything bad happens there's been people on social media trying to blame Trump supporters within 30 seconds of the new breaking?


Would you be willing to provide the tweet? Genuine request.

Happy to have it in PM form if you'd prefer.

As she's not on social media anymore I hope you'll take an archive of her saying she's leaving

Here's what went on before it that was captured by some-one


Sorry but as I said it wasn't widely covered in the media so you end up with weird side sites.


I never did this.
Sure you didn't champ, sure you didn't
 

Silvanus

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Which turns out they didn't do for women.
Uhrm, ok, well this is now just your value judgement, then. Which I'm singularly uninterested in.

So no bad tactics only bad targets means there still are bad tactics?
I'd say it's pretty absurd to take that statement to literally mean he's OK with murder, arson, terrorism etc.

Similarly if someone says "you can do what you want", it's absurd to take that to literally mean you can steal a car or hijack a plane if you want.




2) You mean like how every single time anything bad happens there's been people on social media trying to blame Trump supporters within 30 seconds of the new breaking?
Uh... so your defence is that if randos on social media can use it as an attack, so can you and its fine when you do it?

Very principled.


As she's not on social media anymore I hope you'll take an archive of her saying she's leaving

Here's what went on before it that was captured by some-one


Sorry but as I said it wasn't widely covered in the media so you end up with weird side sites.
Wait, so was it Michelle Buchman who said that to you?

I think you may have misunderstood, I'm asking for the abusive comment you mentioned that was sent to you.

Genuine request, not meaning to be antagonistic. Again, happy for you to send it in PM if you prefer.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Uhrm, ok, well this is now just your value judgement, then. Which I'm singularly uninterested in.
No it's an objective reality that BF V didn't tell any stories based on real women in WWII or any untold stories inspired by real women in WWII


I'd say it's pretty absurd to take that statement to literally mean he's OK with murder, arson, terrorism etc.

Similarly if someone says "you can do what you want", it's absurd to take that to literally mean you can steal a car or hijack a plane if you want.
NO bad tactics. Not most tactics are fine, not No bad tactics with limits. No bad tactics at all. I mean we are talking Moviebob who has previously said how he'd have been team Magneto in the Xmen so pretty sure if he thought he could do it and wouldn't get punished he would if it supported his ends.


Uh... so your defence is that if randos on social media can use it as an attack, so can you and its fine when you do it?

Very principled.
Hey people here were trying to pretend only one side does it to smear one side. Don't get all tetchy because the other side has been shown to do it.


Wait, so was it Michelle Buchman who said that to you?
No I figured you were on about the Star Wars social media manager being harassed off social media.......

I think you may have misunderstood, I'm asking for the abusive comment you mentioned that was sent to you.
Well as it was a good 4+ years ago it's likely been deleted by now by them when they realised the next day it was a bad look.
 

Silvanus

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No it's an objective reality that BF V didn't tell any stories based on real women in WWII or any untold stories inspired by real women in WWII
It's undeniable that they didn't tell any stories directly based on real women in WW2. "Inspired by" can mean anything. It doesn't need to be literally based on it.

NO bad tactics. Not most tactics are fine, not No bad tactics with limits. No bad tactics at all.
If you take that entirely literally, that's up to you. Most reasonable people know that not everything said on the internet is meant literally.

Hey people here were trying to pretend only one side does it to smear one side. Don't get all tetchy because the other side has been shown to do it.
This doesn't address what was written. If you think that other people doing something justifies you doing it as well, then you can't gripe about people doing it.

No I figured you were on about the Star Wars social media manager being harassed off social media.......

Well as it was a good 4+ years ago it's likely been deleted by now by them when they realised the next day it was a bad look.
OK.

I'm in a bit of a tough situation now. If that actually happened, it's obviously horrible & unacceptable, and that person should be reported & disciplined.

...but you've also been known to make quite serious accusations against people which turned out not to be true.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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It's undeniable that they didn't tell any stories directly based on real women in WW2. "Inspired by" can mean anything. It doesn't need to be literally based on it.
Well they didn't tell any stories even inspired by them. Unless it's the same way "Armed and Dangerous" on Xbox was "Based on a true story" lol


If you take that entirely literally, that's up to you. Most reasonable people know that not everything said on the internet is meant literally.
Why not people have happily taken everything other have said absolutely literally online for their own ends. What was the phrase "Context doesn't matter it's still offensive and should be changed." Where the only way it said things were coming off badly was without context? Sorry but Moviebobs side doesn't get to play that kind of card then pretend when they say stuff context matters without it looking hugely hypocritical


This doesn't address what was written. If you think that other people doing something justifies you doing it as well, then you can't gripe about people doing it.
What if I'm doing it to show how bad doing it is to people who were doing it because they don't seem to learn any other way?


...but you've also been known to make quite serious accusations against people which turned out not to be true.
Which serious allegation was that?
Sorry you accuse me of so much I tend to forget what villainy I'm supposed to have done this week
 

Dreiko

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If something can mean anything, this means that it means nothing.
 
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