Gena Davis institute on Gender in media tries to link violent games to mass shootings and police violence

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Oxy Moron
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The easily want to point out the difference is the show The Boys which mocked the woke stuff in the recent series with the whole Maeve subplot when honestly Maeve just wants to be her a hero who happens to be bisexual but corporate wants her marketed as a Lesbian because it sells better according to market research.
I didn't watch the second series but I've seen a few people mention this. The thing is though that Maeve wasn't bisexual in the comics, she was straight. Her sexuality was changed for the TV show, presumably to improve representation. The showrunners are guilty of the issue they're supposedly mocking.
 
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Cicada 5

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Because "consistency be damned gotta own dem Gamers™"
It shows the hollowness of wokeness.
Black female character brutally beaten to death during gameplay around the time BLM was really starting up? Yeh totally fine no trouble.

So because they don't yell about every female or minority character getting killed, they are hypocrites?

A Ninja story about defending your homeland from invaders? "IMPERALIST RIGHT WING EVIL PROPERGANDA!!!!!"
At best, this was a handful of leftists who had an extreme reaction to TLOU 2's haters using the Ghost of Tsushima to bash it. And to be clear, I don't believe that nonsense about Ghost either.

It's Proof if you signal hard enough the woke lot will happily accept it.
There are plenty of movies that signaled wokeness heavily and were rejected by both sides of the isle. Signaling politics in and of itself does not mean something would be accepted.

I watched Supergirl and yes Season 1 had some cringey moments but they also had Cat Grant to sort of balance things out a bit and bring some level of sanity too to sort of almost mock the more extreme activist ideas like calling out the idea "What's wrong with girl in the name Supergirl I'm a girl still just an older and wiser one" When it moved to the CW they changed her Sister Alex to being a Lesbian (in Season 1 she was shown to have a romantic Interest in Maxwell Lord but in season two the CW threw all that out the window and made her lesbian (not Bi just lesbian exclusively).
This complaint has struck me as unfounded. Max Lord was the only male character Alex showed interest in and it wasn't exactly a popular relationship (nor was Lord himself particularly compelling being seen as nothing more than a Lex Luthor stand in.) As for Alex's sexuality, this isn't any different from how plenty of gay people are in heterosexual relationships before realizing their orientation. The only reason to complain about Alex being gay instead of bisexual seems to be that people specifically want her to be attracted to men.

Most of the stuff I saw them put supergirl through was emotional termoil rather than physical
Seems pretty par for the course for superheroes. At least the ones on the CW.

The weird reason for being ok with some stuff and not others is there's two modes for women seemingly allowed. Absolute victim who rises above it eventually (Jessica Jones) or Complete badass who never faces any struggles really (Rey, Captain Marvel etc....)
Your own comment about Supergirl disproves this. It seems you're looking for hypocrisy and narrow mindedness where non exist.
 
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Cicada 5

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I didn't watch the second series but I've seen a few people mention this. The thing is though that Maeve wasn't bisexual in the comics, she was straight. Her sexuality was changed for the TV show, presumably to improve representation. The showrunners are guilty of the issue they're supposedly mocking.
Not really. Maeve isn't just defined by her sexuality.
 

Cicada 5

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Yes, they were also claimed and pushed as "More realistic depictions". Because that's what the game with magic powers really needed where people can get up from broken skulls and spines and keep fighting like nothing happened.......
Your argument was that games were being "uglified" not being made more realistic. People only complained about the realistic proportions because they thought the fanservice was being erased entirely. It wasn't.
 

CriticalGaming

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And these are great characters. Doesn't mean we can't use more of them.
This isnt even a fraction of the badass women that exist in fiction. The narrative of women always being just prizes is just incredibly false.

But the thing is, no matter how many examples of cool strong girls you showcase, it never counts because there are examples of the opposite. Female power fantasy is ok, male power fantasy is not because feminism says men dont deserve fantasy due to them having all the power irl.

So it is an argument that has no basis in reality and is an argument that cant be won because no amount of evidence will ever convince a feminist to say, "Oh shit. There are a ton of badass girls, okay nevermind i stand corrected."
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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So it is an argument that has no basis in reality and is an argument that cant be won because no amount of evidence will ever convince a feminist to say, "Oh shit. There are a ton of badass girls, okay nevermind i stand corrected."
"I don't know why the feminists are so upset. I think that women are perfectly represented in media, and of course I'd know better than they do."
 

BrawlMan

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Judging by how ignorant they tend to be when presenting an argument about video games specifically...yes i do know better.
And there's your problem, you don't you don't get to make that claim and speak for all women. Most women don't appreciate it and there are plenty of men that don't appreciate it either. Check yourself before you wreck yourself. And boyo, you have been doing plenty of wrecking yourself.


The narrative of women always being just prizes is just incredibly false.
You really don't know dick. Well it's not as bad as it was before back then, it's still crops up from time to time. It might be an unfortunate implication, but it is still there. There are plenty of stories and novels, and movies back from the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, and '70s where women were damsels in distress or needed to be saved. It's a trope older than dirt. Yes, there were subtle changes in each decade, but it was still a problem. Sigourney Weaver did an excellent job in Aliens, but she didn't say everything. But she definitely did change the face of how women are portrayed in sci-fi, so I give credit to to where credit is due. That said, issues have and still exist when it comes to representation. We've already discussed this a thousand times already. You having the quote unquote "final word" don't mean shit. No one put you in charge. When I last check, you sure as hell don't work for Hollywood, nor the AAA Gaming Industry. Nor are you on top of the system.

Video games are no exception. While video games changed at a faster rate, damsels in distress was still pretty common even for the early to mid 2000s an early 2010s. That doesn't negate the presence of stronger female characters or ones with their own agencies, but it still did happen. And while the damsel in distress trope is pretty much near dead aside from the odd Mario game, they're still problems when it comes to representing women in gaming. The AAA industry still has it screw-ups and it's usually the AA and Indie that works it out right.
 

CriticalGaming

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Nonsense, this is propaganda and nothing more.

First of all there is nothing wrong with the damsel trope. It's only a problem for these feminists because it is something to rally against. But despite their problem with it for arbiturary reasons, it is an effective story-telling device and it is hardly the only one used.

Secondly there are countless examples of women in films going back to the dawn of the movie age. There are countless westerns, and classic movies from the 1930s and plus in which the women are the rulers of the houses, in which the women always get the laugh over the cocksure cowboy, where the men curtail and bow down when the woman makes a demand.

There are some old school sensibilities in old movies in which audiences didn't like seeing women get hurt, or fight, and criticism against that idea is fine, but women were far from weak willed little prizes.

But again people will latch onto the examples in which the damsel trope is used, or the woman in the prize in some power fantasy stories, and then use those as if they are the most common examples of women in media. Which has never been the case when you look at older films from the perspective of the times in which they were made. Even in the 1920's and 30's women where the stars of the show. Judy Garland, Elizabeth Taylor, Marilyn Monroe, Betty White, Olivia de Havilland.

Look it's a bias that cherry picks examples to spin a patriarchal narrative, because if they actively tried to look at the whole picture in terms of general roles of female characters in media they wouldn't have a leg to stand on. Even now, with the badass female characters becoming even MORE of a thing, they then have to attack that charcter's appearance as being too unrealistic, too attractive for the male gaze.

It's an ideology, a belief, and when someone holds that belief it is very difficult to change their mind. Even when showing evidence of falsehood. It's why no matter how much science proves the Earth is billions of years old, no matter how much evidence you showcase, people will still believe the Earth is only 6000 years old and dinosaurs died in the great flood of Noah. Why people still believe the Earth is flat.

🤷‍♂️
 
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BrawlMan

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Nonsense, this is propaganda and nothing more.
And there's your first and most dangerous mistake. It's not propaganda if it's true and still on going. You just rather be in la la land. You have a habit of ignoring actual points or truths people back up or show. Either by downplaying it or not responding when you know you have nothing to counter with. Or you overract or treat something as serious buinsess, because of a change of an outdated system, or "forced divsersity" bull crap you're tying to sell. I am starting to see why you don't come to the Current Events thread often. You told me that earlier this year, but you've been on it a lot more often than you want to admit.
 
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It also purposely made its character uglier which apparently wasn't a mortal sin this time around when they could use the game as a stick to beat another game for having a muscle girl in it.
This especially was weird. None of the female characters in Ghost were traditionally attractive, looking more like one would look when living in squalor in medieval times. Yet I've had someone in a thread right here post a picture complaining that the breast size of a TLoU2 character was slightly smaller than the face model's.

But then Ghost had you playing as a manly hero guy while TLoU2 not only had you play as a lesbian but also a butch looking girl as well, so not even having supermodels in the game on top of that was too much for those poor souls to handle I guess. I'm not even kidding, that's very likely the reason.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Your argument was that games were being "uglified" not being made more realistic. People only complained about the realistic proportions because they thought the fanservice was being erased entirely. It wasn't.
Except it actually was kinda Erased because for quite a while the claim was being pushed even the original MK game costumes were unrealistic looks for women to fight in. Eventually after a lot of fan pressure and a lower than hoped for sales they put the original MK costumes in the game as unlockable but initially you can look at characters like Scarlet etc and how much more they were covered up.

uglified is probably not the right term I'd say toned down from what they were but the funny thing being it's never been realistic. The argument was basically "Well this is what real women who fight would look like not like the Barbie dolls of this game" with pushing for a look more in line with "The average woman" But apparently that doesn't apply to the male characters too so it almost sticks out more when you have


As kind of the look of the some of the male cast.
 

Breakdown

Oxy Moron
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Adding more diversity. Which is not the same thing as tokenism, which is what the show was parodying and what you were (wrongly) accusing them of.
Of course, it's totally different when the Boys does it...

And it doesn't add more diversity anyway, since the Homelander was bisexual in the comics.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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And these are great characters. Doesn't mean we can't use more of them.
The argument was there wasn't any being presented. Not that more wouldn't be fine.

The constant presentation is this idea there haven't been any / aren't any thus we need them now because there are none or "Finally the first good female character". Which was part of the argument for a Female Doctor Who.

Two of those women were Doctor Who Companions but apparently they don't count / aren't considered worthwhile or good anymore for some reason that no-one will ever actually address.

"I don't know why the feminists are so upset. I think that women are perfectly represented in media, and of course I'd know better than they do."
We're talking the same branch of Feminism that held up a person who couldn't understand why an illegal file sharing website would have porn adverts on it. The same person who claimed Lego was disadvantaging girls by creating sets that were more aimed specifically at boys and others at girls when their core original sets were getting more boys playing with them anyway and not girls thus Lego actually tried to get girls interested in it by tailoring sets towards them too but apparently that's bad for girls who already weren't playing with the regular sets and somehow Lego is the problem because it didn't magically managed to have girls playing with it's original sets to the same degree as boys despite doing everything modern 4th wave feminists would claim is good and should be the solution. (Gender representation in all marketing, gender neutral designs, lack of machoism and violence / war in designs etc etc)

I don't think it takes even a basic College degree to know better than some of them or at least see the huge flaws in their arguments that seems to be "No it failed because the entire world didn't change to meet the thing and it's the entire world that's the problem no the arguments we're making"
 

AnxietyProne

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Far less people than you likely think.
You ain't in the parts of the internet I am, slick.


So you're saying they shouldn't even though said jobs often take quite a toll on peoples bodies such that they cannot carry them on for as long?
Not at all. But my point about them paying more still stands.


So it hasn't or we'd have heard about it.
Except it has.


You sure on that and it's not some idiots trying to parody what they imagine said people are like to try and own them?
I'd bet my life on it. Go see for yourself.


So we've got to the point of admitting it happens on both sides very much but the full context of that was Silvanus arguing that one side saying anything insulting was trying to shut down the the other so is this you suggesting it's fine on both sides or that both sides are trying to shut down the other?
Of course it's not fine. It's a game that, in the end, very few people win, and you can rest assured regular people like you and me ain't among that Very Few.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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And there's your problem, you don't you don't get to make that claim and speak for all women. Most women don't appreciate it and there are plenty of men that don't appreciate it either. Check yourself before you wreck yourself. And boyo, you have been doing plenty of wrecking yourself.
*Point to Liana K and many other women*

You don't want people to speak for them, I don't have to. I can just point out Liana K and many other women have made videos critical of Anita.
I can point out Comic Book Girl 19


Who publicly said how she stopped buying Marvel due to what she perceived as forced diversity and tokenism at the expense of good stories

I don't have to speak for them, just point out what they have said.

So no this argument of claiming to speak for most women? Nah Anita and Co and that lot also don't speak for most women.


You really don't know dick. Well it's not as bad as it was before back then, it's still crops up from time to time. It might be an unfortunate implication, but it is still there. There are plenty of stories and novels, and movies back from the 30s, 40s, 50s, 60s, and '70s where women were damsels in distress or needed to be saved. It's a trope older than dirt. Yes, there were subtle changes in each decade, but it was still a problem. Sigourney Weaver did an excellent job in Aliens, but she didn't say everything. But she definitely did change the face of how women are portrayed in sci-fi, so I give credit to to where credit is due. That said, issues have and still exist when it comes to representation. We've already discussed this a thousand times already. You having the quote unquote "final word" don't mean shit. No one put you in charge. When I last check, you sure as hell don't work for Hollywood, nor the AAA Gaming Industry. Nor are you on top of the system.
It's a Trope because it works and has emotional weight and depth to it and saves having to spend however long explaining stuff. I mean we don't have to explain to cinema audiences that the things on the screen aren't going to rush out of the screen and kill them, that's technically a trope that said thing is understood. Saving a loved one / princess / Damsel is an easy trope to do in games where they are more about gameplay. There's little to explain, the character loves some-one they've been taken away against their will so go save them.

It's funny to suggest the Trope itself is the issue and needs to be removed as some great cosmic balancing of the scales or something. Would you not fight for the one you love to save them?

No-one may have put me in charge. But also no-one in charge at present as power to decide what or where I spend my money. So lets see how long the money lasts. I mean we saw what happened with Sunset and Tale of Tales.

Video games are no exception. While video games changed at a faster rate, damsels in distress was still pretty common even for the early to mid 2000s an early 2010s. That doesn't negate the presence of stronger female characters or ones with their own agencies, but it still did happen. And while the damsel in distress trope is pretty much near dead aside from the odd Mario game, they're still problems when it comes to representing women in gaming. The AAA industry still has it screw-ups and it's usually the AA and Indie that works it out right.
Again easy trope to do with little story explanation needed.

As for the Trope being dead.

The Evil Within 2
Days Gone
Technically Nier
Resident Evil Village
Resident Evil 7
Part of the Latest Devil May Cry

To name but a few that would count lol