Gena Davis institute on Gender in media tries to link violent games to mass shootings and police violence

Dwarvenhobble

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Except this isn't that, it's about online gaming spaces.
So? The gaming space was smaller than Hollywood back then. Why is it bad to call it out when it's the gaming space?

I don't know, did she?
I wasn't foolhardly enough to back it so I have no idea, though I believe youtuber Rags did back it and has said he never got his DVD. I looked at her other output at the time and was skeptical about the kind of job she'd do but did still hold out some hope.

The only people I hear talking about what an evil schemer she is are the ones who already hated her from the get-go and refered to her as a "fake gamer", and started a pretty substantial hate campaign against her, so you'll forgive for not taking their word on this.
I mean she did say she wasn't a gamer, she did do the Bayonetta video so terrible and ill informed she pulled it from her own channel, she did also claim all geeks and gamers looked like the crew from The Big Bang Theory before.......

Also the hate campaign against her (before she released any videos so this was like 2009 or something so I can talk about this as it's not stepping on a no go area) is weird. All the Kickstarter comments are archived and I can't see any of the hate she claims to have got. The comments were also pay to post there.

Anita's other videos had comments shut down on them already by that point too.

The claim is she got the hate comments on the video for the kickstarter campaign, Which is private so you can't read the comments to verify any of the claims about comments being made or the origin of said comments
 

Dwarvenhobble

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I'll tell you why this is so aggravating for you. What you are describing wirh your reddit example is pretty much what cancel culture. (I.e. Taking a couple of quote and turning it into why we should hate them. Sending thousands of rabid culture warriors after people.) DH clearly gets up to his neck in this nonsense and then tell us how evil we are for canceling others.

I keep pointing this out to them but he just deflects. Cancel culture is only seen as being done by one side. Apparently.
Ah yes I'm cancelling the big institute by calling out the bullshit parts of their paper right? is that what you're saying?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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For developers it's more complicated, because you can be developing parts of a game that you'd never want to play. After all it's a sum of many creative and technical decisions and so on. So never 50/50, and the solution in my opinion is to try to get young girls into computers and software instead of thinking it's only for nerds.
Hey girls can be nerds too.

I know / have known girls who can computer program. Though yes getting more girls into computers and software is needed but it's not working. Higher education computer Science courses remain at about 30% female at best. Media wise there have been female hackers in plenty of stuff be it Acid Burn in the film Hackers or the more recently Ramsey in the Fast and Furious franchise and between them there was Trinity in The Matrix films. Even getting them into computers the gaming industry is one of the worse directions in the industry as there's so much difference between studios and the conditions at them without a base line standard to them other industries are just more attractive.
 

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So? The gaming space was smaller than Hollywood back then. Why is it bad to call it out when it's the gaming space?
I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here; that we need to push back against people criticizing the toxicity of online gaming spaces, the vast majority taking the form of sexism, racism, homophobia, and transphobia? I'm sorry, but those places are a cesspool when left unmoderated.

I wasn't foolhardly enough to back it so I have no idea, though I believe youtuber Rags did back it and has said he never got his DVD. I looked at her other output at the time and was skeptical about the kind of job she'd do but did still hold out some hope.
Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but I remember Rags and I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt in regards to Sarkeesian or anything regarding equality or feminism. He was one of the many youtubers at the time that had it out for people calling out sexism within games.

I mean she did say she wasn't a gamer, she did do the Bayonetta video so terrible and ill informed she pulled it from her own channel, she did also claim all geeks and gamers looked like the crew from The Big Bang Theory before.......
Being a "gamer" has very little to do with noticing some of the embarrassing story and character traits specifically tied to gender that were (and still are) in games back then. As for comparing all geeks and gamers to The Big Bang Theory, that's a pretty old fashion but toothless insult. Though honestly not even much of an insult considering how perfectly fine that cast looks.

Also the hate campaign against her (before she released any videos so this was like 2009 or something so I can talk about this as it's not stepping on a no go area) is weird. All the Kickstarter comments are archived and I can't see any of the hate she claims to have got. The comments were also pay to post there.

Anita's other videos had comments shut down on them already by that point too.

The claim is she got the hate comments on the video for the kickstarter campaign, Which is private so you can't read the comments to verify any of the claims about comments being made or the origin of said comments
Dude, Sargon of Akkad made, like, 50 videos about her, and that was just one of the many anti-SJW youtubers who spurred on the hate. I don't think I need to tell you that a hate campaign isn't secluded solely to the comments section of a kickstarter video.
 

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The feminists of today are literally the christian conservatives of the 90s. You can't make this shit up lol. Back then it was DnD making people satanists and MK making people school shooters, now it's GTA making people sexist and racist.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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I'm not exactly sure what you're getting at here; that we need to push back against people criticizing the toxicity of online gaming spaces, the vast majority taking the form of sexism, racism, homophobia, and transphobia? I'm sorry, but those places are a cesspool when left unmoderated.
More the absolutely terrible methodology to the study and implication that somehow it's due to violent games that Police violence and mass shootings happen.

Because the study was based on Twitch clips it's arguing that all Streamers must all act in a certain way which includes no cussing at all (because that is apparently toxic too) and rather than be beholden to a mix of their own audience and desires are somehow morally bound to have to present games with certain checkboxes ticked to their audience as such.

Maybe he did, maybe he didn't, but I remember Rags and I'm not going to give him the benefit of the doubt in regards to Sarkeesian or anything regarding equality or feminism. He was one of the many youtubers at the time that had it out for people calling out sexism within games.
In part because he backed her campaign out of hope it would produce something good only for it not to really.

Being a "gamer" has very little to do with noticing some of the embarrassing story and character traits specifically tied to gender that were (and still are) in games back then. As for comparing all geeks and gamers to The Big Bang Theory, that's a pretty old fashion but toothless insult. Though honestly not even much of an insult considering how perfectly fine that cast looks.
Except that requires some level of media literacy to do well and realisation as to why the tropes are used and have endured often for centuries.

E.G. Damsel in Distress.
Anita suggested "Well why not have it be a treasure you go after".
Seemingly not realising that society values the idea of love over the idea of avarice thus fighting to save one you love is a story that will resonate with people more who would want to protect what they love.

I could go through some of the other tropes and issues with her work on them if you want


Dude, Sargon of Akkad made, like, 50 videos about her, and that was just one of the many anti-SJW youtubers who spurred on the hate. I don't think I need to tell you that a hate campaign isn't secluded solely to the comments section of a kickstarter video.
And people made like 50 videos on Solar Roadways or Elon Musk's projects or Jordan Peterson or Theranos. I can't say I think I ever watched a Sargon video about her stuff so I have to ask what was so bad that the Anti-SJW youtubers did to her / her content again? Or are we trying to lay the blame for their audience (or more likely trolls trying to cause trouble) at their feet no matter how polite or actually not insulting and focussing on her points that their critique was?
 

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Hey girls can be nerds too.

I know / have known girls who can computer program. Though yes getting more girls into computers and software is needed but it's not working. Higher education computer Science courses remain at about 30% female at best. Media wise there have been female hackers in plenty of stuff be it Acid Burn in the film Hackers or the more recently Ramsey in the Fast and Furious franchise and between them there was Trinity in The Matrix films. Even getting them into computers the gaming industry is one of the worse directions in the industry as there's so much difference between studios and the conditions at them without a base line standard to them other industries are just more attractive.
30% is quite a lot imo. Those movie characters (Ramsay and Cypher, Millie in Free Guy, Julianne Moore's character from Assassins) are lightyears off realistic depictions. I'll add one more from the teen comedy The DUFF in which the """hacker""" gal pal can take down YouTube in two minutes in the school library. Lisbeth Salander too but for different reasons and imagine if a girl's image of a female nerd is Amy Fowler from The Big Bang Theory. In 24 Chloe "Jack I've got satellite" O'Brien was alright before quitting the CTU, and I'd call Grace Van Pelt from The Mentalist a decent example. And they weren't nerds. While gatekeeping such a title is ridiculous, it's still something that has an effect on work, leisure activities and personal relationships. Do people really want that? It can be a social sudoku for girls.
 

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Oh and AAAARGH Anita Sarkeesian, that evil person who got paid for work she did making some videos about games. Games she doesn't even like, how dare she!?
For me at least, my main problem with her is that she is just another schemer and loud mouth that pretends to care. Also, she sucks as a critic, even when you take video games out of the equation. Anita's is nothing more than another contrarian who fees like their the smartest one in the group and look down on others for liking something she doesn't, vice versa, or for having a different opinion. I dislike her for use of plagiarism; I take that seriously. Give fucking credit where credit is due, when you take other people's gameplay video, you asshole Sarkeesian. Plagiarism is a serious offense, just ask that one IGN "reviewer" who thought it was a good idea to steal from the same YouTube user twice. Boy got his ass fired hard when everyone.

MK making people school shooters
No, parents were afraid kids/teens would start getting in to violent fights ripping people's spines or hearts out. Doom and many other FPSs were falsely claimed to make kids/teens shoot up their schools. GTA was on the list for similar reasons.

now it's GTA making people sexist and racist.
No, but there is plenty of that industry already, as we've seen from these companies. With that said, companies like Ubisoft and Acti-Blizz are more than willing to defend sexists/racists/homo & transphobia, because it's easy money. So they can all get fucked.
 

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The feminists of today are literally the christian conservatives of the 90s. You can't make this shit up lol. Back then it was DnD making people satanists and MK making people school shooters, now it's GTA making people sexist and racist.
You had a blue nose faction of the Left then too. It was Tipper Gore that wanted ratings on LPs back in the day. Frank Zappa vehemently opposed.
These people may seem like a joke today but you need to call them out now or in the future? They may not be a joke then.
These sorts of people damaged the film industry with their Hayes code.
These sorts of people damaged the comic book industry with the Comics Code Authority.
Anita Sarkeesian is a terrible person. A liar, a would be authoritarian and a con artist. And she can harm people. Any movement in which she is a part is suspect.
Interesting thing, while correlation does not equal causation, these types don't even have that going for them. As games grew radically in popularity, crime stats in the 1990s dropped. They are people in search of a problem to which they want to provide a solution. At a cost of course.
Did she ever finish her tropes v woman youtube series?
I think she did but they were few, brief, poorly thought out. But she also grifted saying she would need 6 figures to do them. They look like anything your average youtuber could do in their basement for free.
A guy named "Thunderf00t" on Youtube did more about her than she did herself.
Now she does a Feminist Frequency that I often listen to so that I may at least know what direction she and hers are coming from next.
 
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Dreiko

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No, but there is plenty of that industry already, as we've seen from these companies. With that said, companies like Ubisoft and Acti-Blizz are more than willing to defend sexists/racists/homo & transphobia, because it's easy money. So they can all get fucked.

I assure playing too much diablo or COD did not cause the activision blizzard folk to be that way lol.

Whether they're willing to defend, support, or act in these ways has no bearing on whether the games these people make would magically turn people into the things that some of the devs are. You can't link the two. It's like saying if you eat this recipe some nazi made up you'll become a nazi. It doesn't work that way.

You had a blue nose faction of the Left then too. It was Tipper Gore that wanted ratings on LPs back in the day. Frank Zappa vehemently opposed.
These people may seem like a joke today but you need to call them out now or in the future? They may not be a joke then.
These sorts of people damaged the film industry with their Hayes code.
These sorts of people damaged the comic book industry with the Comics Code Authority.
Anita Sarkeesian is a terrible person. A liar, a would be authoritarian and a con artist. And she can harm people. Any movement in which she is a part is suspect.
Interesting thing, while correlation does not equal causation, these types don't even have that going for them. As games grew radically in popularity, crime stats in the 1990s dropped. They are people in search of a problem to which they want to provide a solution. At a cost of course.

If you wanna look at crime statistics and violent videogames, just looking at Japan is enough. They play the most violent games out of any nation per capita yet their crime rates are nothing compared to ours.
 
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CriticalGaming

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The only people I hear talking about what an evil schemer she is are the ones who already hated her from the get-go and refered to her as a "fake gamer", and started a pretty substantial hate campaign against her, so you'll forgive for not taking their word on this.
Except there is video proof of her saying she hates games. She got into the space simply because she found a way to make stupid money off of it. The moment her video game series started she started to claim that she loved video games despite her very clearly saying she hated them previously. She made claims about all the research and playing of games she had to do to make a series that basically attacked gaming, yet in her videos everytime she showcased video footage it was footage stolen from other youtubers. On top of that every complaint she issued in her series was given out of context to make it seem as sexist as possible. The vast majority of shit she spit on her big video series and in live speeches at cons was garbage and flasified and if anyone tried to make a comment pointing out the context or address her "points" she blocked and/or claimed harassment. She turned off the comments on every video, shut down any possible discourse about the topic because we all know and she KNEW that she was full of shit.

And you still wonder why people had a hate boner for her? How would you feel about somebody who got popular and rich telling lies about your community?
 

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assure playing too much diablo or COD did not cause the activision blizzard folk to be that way lol.

Whether they're willing to defend, support, or act in these ways has no bearing on whether the games these people make would magically turn people into the things that some of the devs are. You can't link the two. It's like saying if you eat this recipe some nazi made up you'll become a nazi. It doesn't work that way.
You're not paying attention. I did not say the employees became that way nor the executive that's hot for playing those games. All I'm saying is that they do exist at those companies. And will you stop ending everything with a freaking lo?! Not everything can be written off with a laugh.

Second, I'm not equating the two together, but what I am saying is that those executives at top are more than happy to please a couple of racist if it needs to get some more cash. Why do you think both Activision Blizzard and Ubisoft have that constant it's not about politics bull crap? Or we're apolitical or anti political nonsense. They are afraid of sending away the alt-right and super ultra conservative. EA has done the same thing too. They're so scared of losing their goddamn money tree, that they're willing to please a couple racist just so they don't have to deal with the consequences. The video game didn't make them racist nor sexist, but there sure as hell not helping with the attitudes and encouraging them. Racism and sexism always existed in those company cultures. That's nothing that can be denied or downplayed. Either you get it or you don't dude. There's none of this sitting on the fence, middle of the road bullshit
 
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Except there is video proof of her saying she hates games. She got into the space simply because she found a way to make stupid money off of it. The moment her video game series started she started to claim that she loved video games despite her very clearly saying she hated them previously. She made claims about all the research and playing of games she had to do to make a series that basically attacked gaming, yet in her videos everytime she showcased video footage it was footage stolen from other youtubers. On top of that every complaint she issued in her series was given out of context to make it seem as sexist as possible. The vast majority of shit she spit on her big video series and in live speeches at cons was garbage and flasified and if anyone tried to make a comment pointing out the context or address her "points" she blocked and/or claimed harassment. She turned off the comments on every video, shut down any possible discourse about the topic because we all know and she KNEW that she was full of shit.

And you still wonder why people had a hate boner for her? How would you feel about somebody who got popular and rich telling lies about your community?
A lot of that is true. It still didn't excuse the rape anddeath threats though. That was way beyond unnecessary. It didn't help that after that point, everyone was having a with me or against me attitude. We're the good guys and everyone else is evil or stupid. That was a problem with that whole gamer gate and anti-gamergate bullcrap. Hell, just criticizing her on facebook, legitimate or not, would get you fired at the time. This went on for at least a couple years. Even non-gaming companies were afraid of being in that heat. Or anyone tangently involved, they would sooner get rid of them then hear their own side of the story. I honestly believe though that Sarkeesian is not going to have much of an impact on this. Let the big dumb-ass talk all she wants. She sure as hell ain't changing anything and it's just another version of Jack Thompson. I remember back in the mid 2010s, there were certain people that would flip their lids over making a comparison between the two.
 
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Dreiko

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You're not paying attention. I did not say the employees became that way nor the executive that's hot for playing those games. All I'm saying is that they do exist at those companies. And when you stop ending everything with a freaking lol. Not everything can be written off with a laugh.

Second, I'm not equating the two together, but what I am saying is that those executives at top are more than happy to please a couple of races if it needs to get some more cash. Why do you think both Activision Blizzard and Ubisoft have that constant it's not about politics bull crap. Or we're apolitical or anti political nonsense. They are afraid of sending the all right and super ultra conservative. EA has done the same thing too. They're so scared of losing their goddamn money tree, that they're willing to please a couple racist just so they don't have to deal with the consequences. The video game didn't make them racist nor sexist, but there sure as hell not helping with the attitudes and encouraging them. Racism and sexism always existed in those company cultures. That's nothing that can be denied or downplayed. Either you get it or you don't dude. There's none of this sitting on the fence, middle of the road bullshit
You're making an off-topic comment then, because in this topic we're addressing claims referenced in the OP that are attempting to link the generation of these attitudes to games.

Noticing a group is there and making products for them, and your products making that group be there when it otherwise would not are two totally different things and this topic is about the latter.


If you wish to claim no political ideology should be catered to, sure, but then we'll also have to chastise a bunch of other games which aim their pandering towards the left wing.

If you wish that only YOUR ideology should be catered to and any other one should be not because that's immoral somehow, that's literally fascistic. You wanna just not play those games which rub you the wrong way and leave other people alone to enjoy em.


Also I legit don't follow anything activision does but wasn't there some kinda pandering they did for AC by adding a lot of random diverse characters or what have you? I could swear I remember some sort of controversy about that some years back.

I'm pretty sure they played both ends of the spectrum, not because they care about either ideology but because that's how they make more money. Trying to twist this into something beyond that is a cynical attempt to limit gaming and this topic is about this attempt.
 

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You're making an off-topic comment then, because in this topic we're addressing claims referenced in the OP that are attempting to link the generation of these attitudes to games.

Noticing a group is there and making products for them, and your products making that group be there when it otherwise would not are two totally different things and this topic is about the latter.


If you wish to claim no political ideology should be catered to, sure, but then we'll also have to chastise a bunch of other games which aim their pandering towards the left wing.

If you wish that only YOUR ideology should be catered to and any other one should be not because that's immoral somehow, that's literally fascistic. You wanna just not play those games which rub you the wrong way and leave other people alone to enjoy em.


Also I legit don't follow anything activision does but wasn't there some kinda pandering they did for AC by adding a lot of random diverse characters or what have you? I could swear I remember some sort of controversy about that some years back.

I'm pretty sure they played both ends of the spectrum, not because they care about either ideology but because that's how they make more money. Trying to twist this into something beyond that is a cynical attempt to limit gaming and this topic is about this attempt.
It ain't all off topic if it's true. I already know for a fact that video games, don't make people racist, nor sexist. It still doesn't change the fact that most of these companies do nothing to help nor they don't mind a attracting/pandering those with that type of mindset or attitude. Making sure people don't think nor feel bad about anything, nor question themselves.

You not following Activision, Ubisoft, nor EA is your problem. That is your own ignorance for not following through or checking up on stuff. We just had this big thing happen where lots of people were sex sexually harassed at Ubisoft and Blizzard Activision. And the abuse still continues at Ubisoft despite the firing of top figures, cuz the guy in charge won't change and wants to keep the status quo the same. That's not my fault. I ain't twisting anything. You are once again not paying attention and missing the actual important details. I know video games don't cost people to be mass shooters or racists. That's not the point I was fucking making. That's your problem dude. You only barely listen, you act really oblivious to stuff that's obviously been going on, or you trying to downplay it in the case of certain Japanese companies for the more negative parts of the culture. I've seen more than enough of your posts from here and past on the Escapist 1.0 forum. So do me a favor, and actually open your eyes and your ears, and pay attention. I ain't really nor negatively twisting anything. You're just that ignorant. Don't bother talking to me anymore about this, cuz I ain't listening, because you willfully ignore facts that are right in front of you.
 
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Dreiko

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It ain't all off topic if it's true. I already know for a fact that video games, don't make people racist, nor sexist. It still doesn't change the fact that most of these companies do nothing to help nor they don't mind a attracting/pandering those with that type of mindset or attitude. Making sure people don't think North feel bad about anything, nor question themselves.

You not following Activision, Ubisoft, nor EA is your problem. That is your own ignorance for not following through or checking up on stuff. We just had this big thing happen where lots of people were sex sexually harassed at Ubisoft and Blizzard Activision. And the abuse still continues at Ubisoft despite the firing of top figures, cuz the guy in charge won't change and wants to keep the status quo the same. That's not my fault. I ain't twisting anything. You are once again not paying attention and missing the actual important details. I know video games don't cost people to be mass shooters or racists. That's not the point I was fucking making. That's your problem dude. You only barely listen, you act really oblivious to stuff that's obviously been going on, or you trying to downplay it in the case of certain Japanese companies for the more negative parts of the culture. I've seen more than enough of your posts from here and past on the Escapist 1.0 forum. So do me a favor, and actually open your eyes and your ears, and pay attention. I ain't really nor negatively twisting anything. You're just that ignorant. Don't bother talking to me anymore about this, cuz I ain't listening, because you willfully ignore facts that are right in front of you.
No I know about the more recent butt plug suicide controversy stuff, I just wasn't paying attention to them much over the past years. I don't really play their games, first time I touched AC was like half a year ago, and so I only follow the companies whose games I play. What's odd about that? Why aren't you HAPPY that I'm not supporting these horrible people or following their life choices? Isn't that the desired situation? Or does everyone have an obligation to seek out things to be outraged by at all times even when it's about stuff they're not involved in? I don't think that's a realistic expectation to have of people. Also, these people don't monopolize gaming or discussions about gaming and its effects on people. You can opine about this subject with experience derived from wholly other sources. They too are gaming just as much, they are just as valid, even if you deem em less important or relevant.

This topic wasn't exclusively about activision. Otherwise I wouldn't have entered it. Your post is at best tangentially related to the topic at hand and you're bringing up points that are changing the discussion. I didn't respond to you, I just made a post in this topic. You don't get to talk to me about something else and then blame me for not being overly informed about the thing I wasn't talking about.
 

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No I know about the more recent butt plug suicide controversy stuff, I just wasn't paying attention to them much over the past years. I don't really play their games, first time I touched AC was like half a year ago, and so I only follow the companies whose games I play. What's odd about that? Why aren't you HAPPY that I'm not supporting these horrible people or following their life choices? Isn't that the desired situation? Or does everyone have an obligation to seek out things to be outraged by at all times even when it's about stuff they're not involved in? I don't think that's a realistic expectation to have of people. Also, these people don't monopolize gaming or discussions about gaming and its effects on people. You can opine about this subject with experience derived from wholly other sources. They too are gaming just as much, they are just as valid, even if you deem em less important or relevant.

This topic wasn't exclusively about activision. Otherwise I wouldn't have entered it. Your post is at best tangentially related to the topic at hand and you're bringing up points that are changing the discussion. I didn't respond to you, I just made a post in this topic. You don't get to talk to me about something else and then blame me for not being overly informed about the thing I wasn't talking about.
Yeah news flash, don't fucking care. You never pay attention. All I did was mention is how, these companies are more than happy to act indifferent at best or pander at worst to the some of the most horrible kind of people. Either out of greed, or because on a lot of levels, they agree with people like them. This is definitely true for Activision and Blizzard. You think that's something that's false, just because you didn't bother to look. The reason you're not as interested, is because you don't care, or you're not affected by it. Nor somebody you care about that's affected by it. Don't bother responding to me again, cuz I ain't going to respond. Deal with it.
 
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