Gena Davis institute on Gender in media tries to link violent games to mass shootings and police violence

McElroy

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video games, don't make people racist, nor sexist. It still doesn't change the fact that most of these companies do nothing to help nor they don't mind a attracting/pandering those with that type of mindset or attitude.
This topic seems to come up in your comments a lot. Is there proof of it? Of course you mentioned word filters in one other thread, but they really don't help at all when I could still unmute my microphone and call my team mates the n-word (and threaten to kill them 1v1 when they disagree) while typing "that Lucio should be lynched" in [ALL] chat.
 

BrawlMan

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This topic seems to come up in your comments a lot. Is there proof of it? Of course you mentioned word filters in one other thread, but they really don't help at all when I could still unmute my microphone and call my team mates the n-word (and threaten to kill them 1v1 when they disagree) while typing "that Lucio should be lynched" in [ALL] chat.
I'm not doing this constant back and forth just because it makes somebody feel uncomfortable. They should not choose to ignore obvious evil in front of them. I've already stated thousands of times that the games don't make people racist nor cause mass shooting. I've more than admitted that multiple times for even coming on to either version of the forum. That still doesn't excuse what's been going on throughout the industry as a whole. There are racist and sexist that exist at the top at Activision Blizzard and Ubisoft. They don't mind pandering nor at least acting "neutral/apolitical" towards people of that mindset at best. Not to mention, these companies are more than happy to support toxic attitudes and mindsets. This has been proven to be true and still is. There's more than enough proof of it.

I didn't come to this forum for everyone's goddamn approval.

And yes, people can be racist off/on the mic, doesn't change who they are. If they type it in, it's still a problem that can and should be acknowledged. Just acknowledge and call them out on their bull crap. Push back and fight back to show that it won't be tolerated. Not to ignore and throw to the side to say "LOL random!". Nor should I or anyone be told to shut up, because we're pointing out a problem that people are willfully ignoring.
 

Dreiko

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Acting neutral/apolitical is literally the correct thing to do as a game company. You're not supposed to be people's thought leader, you're supposed to make fun or interesting videogames. It's not your place to tell people what attitudes they should hold. To put on companies this responsibility is undesirable. I am not interested in a company monitoring, regulating or opining about my behavior, in fact I actively dislike any such attempts as I see them as babying me despite my status as a grownup. Obviously others agree with this approach which is why you see the situation you describe.


Most such things companies engage in, they do so either due to legal pressure that was put on them by authoritarian governments like China, or due to a cynical calculation that doing so will attract enough authoritarian customers to make them profitable that way.

I prefer it if game companies become profitable exclusively (as much as possible) due to the quality of the games they put out, because that way we get the best games possible, meanwhile if companies can rely on politics giving them a boost they will slack on game quality.


This is often why there's a dichotomy with gamers and political activists, people who prioritize politics are treating games as a means to an end, meanwhile we treat games as an end in an of itself. Games being the best they can be matters more than reducing random instances of sexism or racism that you can't even really draw a direct link to.
 
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Casual Shinji

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Except there is video proof of her saying she hates games. She got into the space simply because she found a way to make stupid money off of it. The moment her video game series started she started to claim that she loved video games despite her very clearly saying she hated them previously.
There's also proof of me saying I hate videogames. Right here - I hate videogames. And I'm actually kinda serious.

But honestly, so the hell what? She said she hated videogames, then later on she said she loved videogames. How is this a gotcha? You can feel both, or change your mind, or just say it cuz who gives a shit. They're just fucking games, they aren't holy, or actual people. Saying you hate them doesn't damn one to never speak of them again.
She made claims about all the research and playing of games she had to do to make a series that basically attacked gaming, yet in her videos everytime she showcased video footage it was footage stolen from other youtubers. On top of that every complaint she issued in her series was given out of context to make it seem as sexist as possible. The vast majority of shit she spit on her big video series and in live speeches at cons was garbage and flasified and if anyone tried to make a comment pointing out the context or address her "points" she blocked and/or claimed harassment. She turned off the comments on every video, shut down any possible discourse about the topic because we all know and she KNEW that she was full of shit.
If she didn't give credit to the people whose gaming footage she used, then yeah, that's bad form. But considering the amount of work that goes into writing and editing a video, using already existing footage is an easy short cut. Heck, if she only watched footage and criticized the gender roles in games based on that it would still be valid criticism.

And with the amount of vitriol she got I'm not surprised she turned off the comments section. But then I'm sure a lot of detractors only saw this as more reason to get pissed at her.
And you still wonder why people had a hate boner for her? How would you feel about somebody who got popular and rich telling lies about your community?
Oh, I don't wonder, I know exactly why. And it depends on which community you're talking about, because if it's the gaming or pretty much any other fan community, they can fuck right off. Gamers and geeks have been riding that vindictive wave for decades now, acting like games and comic book related properties are still in the 'shame' corner, and therefor they're allowed to be overly protective and hateful toward anyone they deem not a true fan. Just as Sarkeesian was labeled 'not a real gamer', indicating that she should therefor shut up and not say anything negative about it.
 

McElroy

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This has been proven to be true and still is. There's more than enough proof of it.
I am thirsting for this. Is it that you think they don't do enough and call that supporting it? Even most of the reported funny business at Blizzard was pretty old.
edit: And I must add that France has worker protections that forbid firing the middle management guys who let Serge Hascoet get away with his shit, if they correct their behavior.
 
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CriticalGaming

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But honestly, so the hell what? She said she hated videogames, then later on she said she loved videogames. How is this a gotcha? You can feel both, or change your mind, or just say it cuz who gives a shit. They're just fucking games, they aren't holy, or actual people. Saying you hate them doesn't damn one to never speak of them again.
Because it is hypocritical when you combine those statements with videos you put out that have practically zero research.

Yes you can not like a thing, then later in life learn to like a thing. People do it all the time with beer, wine, coffee, golf, whatever. I'm not saying that Anita couldn't have hated games, only to begin to love them once she got into playing them for work then eventually for fun. Sure she could have. The problem is she didn't. She didn't play these games, she didn't even bother to have any of her staff play these games. The proof is in the fact that she offers zero context about characters within her videos, her scripts often reading like a heavily edited wikipedia reading rather than coming from someone who's learned to have a passion for a medium.

It's grifting nothing more.

If she didn't give credit to the people whose gaming footage she used, then yeah, that's bad form. But considering the amount of work that goes into writing and editing a video, using already existing footage is an easy short cut. Heck, if she only watched footage and criticized the gender roles in games based on that it would still be valid criticism.
Sure if she gave credit. But she didn't, and people have figured out what videos and youtubers she stole from to utilize the footage from. She never credits these stolen clips because she had to give the illusion that she was playing these games herself.

And with the amount of vitriol she got I'm not surprised she turned off the comments section.
Neither do i to be honest. But a lot of that vitriol came about because her claims were mostly bullshit and she didn't want to be called out on that. Then when she cried about harassment, the harassment got worst because the internet sucks sometimes. However Anita THRIVED off that "harassment" she did speeches and ended up making shitloads of more money by feeding off the trolls. The girl is smart can't deny that. She's a fucking scummy person, but she is a hustler for sure.

Just as Sarkeesian was labeled 'not a real gamer', indicating that she should therefor shut up and not say anything negative about it.
Well she wasn't. And she was lying about it. So of course people who are primarily a bunch of keyboard warriors were going to lose their shit about it. Honestly I think she KNEW that they would go ape shit, and like the hustler she is, she spun it and fed off of it to make a career in being a victim all the while feeding the fires of the internet by continuing to call them out which would continue to feed into the backlash. It was an incredible money making cycle.
 

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Acting neutral/apolitical is literally the correct thing to do as a game company. You're not supposed to be people's thought leader, you're supposed to make fun or interesting videogames. It's not your place to tell people what attitudes they should hold. To put on companies this responsibility is undesirable. I am not interested in a company monitoring, regulating or opining about my behavior, in fact I actively dislike any such attempts as I see them as babying me despite my status as a grownup. Obviously others agree with this approach which is why you see the situation you describe.
Too bad it's all implied or they enable that attitude. And there are plenty corporations that tell you how to think. This game needs x amount to break even, survival horrors don't work anymore, the DLC and loot boxes are needed because video games are too expensive, it's just cosmetics. They're exactly telling people how to think. And they're not doing much toxic attitude or just enabling it. By being neutral, all they're doing is helping the status quo. It may be "legal", but it's not the right and moral thing to do. Congratulations, you just became another corporate apologist and mouthpiece pawn. That's exactly how they want you to think. You've been duped.


Gamers and geeks have been riding that vindictive wave for decades now, acting like games and comic book related properties are still in the 'shame' corner, and therefor they're allowed to be overly protective and hateful toward anyone they deem not a true fan. Just as Sarkeesian was labeled 'not a real gamer', indicating that she should therefor shut up and not say anything negative about it.
As far as I'm concerned, they are two sides of the same coin. Those groups of gamers and her are not much better than the other. They can all screw off all I care.
 

09philj

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Dwarvenhobble not reading an article and getting mad about it? Must be a Tuesday.
Acting neutral/apolitical is literally the correct thing to do as a game company.
Then they'll make boring games and have online spaces full of Nazis that nobody except you will want to visit.
 

Casual Shinji

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Then when she cried about harassment, the harassment got worst because the internet sucks sometimes. However Anita THRIVED off that "harassment" she did speeches and ended up making shitloads of more money by feeding off the trolls. The girl is smart can't deny that. She's a fucking scummy person, but she is a hustler for sure.
Honestly I think she KNEW that they would go ape shit, and like the hustler she is, she spun it and fed off of it to make a career in being a victim all the while feeding the fires of the internet by continuing to call them out which would continue to feed into the backlash. It was an incredible money making cycle.
What exactly are you basing any of this on? Just a hunch? Because she's OBVIOUSLY a terrible person so she would OBVIOUSLY love all the harassment so she could get them big bucks? She made everyone mad on purpose so she could play the victim? Because everyone knows that's where all the money is right; Feminism and getting death threats and harassment? What the actual fuck dude!?

Again, I really don't wonder why the hate boner is there, I just find it fucking embarrassing and sad that it was ever, and apparently still is, there.
 

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Then they'll make boring games and have online spaces full of Nazis that nobody except you will want to visit.
Thank you!

Also, corporations don't tell us how to do what now, Dreiko? How we should think or behave? They've been doing that plenty of times. Blizzard and Activision have both been supporting toxic behavior for two decades now.


Don't even start, cuz I'm not listening.
 

CriticalGaming

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She made everyone mad on purpose so she could play the victim? Because everyone knows that's where all the money is right; Feminism and getting death threats and harassment? What the actual fuck dude!?
She did call one of her detractors a garbage person for simply sitting in the audience during one of her panels. The man in question was doing nothing but sitting there in the crowd, a sea of people, to watch her panel. She spotted him and went bananas on him. She has had numerous reports of being a piece of shit to people behind the scenes as well, and her attitude breathes the same toxicity she claims she is a victim of.

I don't have a hate boner for her, I only call her out when discussion appears that she has a part in.

I do wonder why you seem so desperate to defend, or at least stand by her side, despite she shitty practices? What the actual Fuck? Does she automatically deserve to get a pass on being an asshole simply because she (probably) has a vagina?
 

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@CriticalGaming & @Casual Shinji, you both make excellent points. Though I do side a bit more Critical in this case, because Sarkeesian does have really nasty and hypocritical attitude. That's why I couldn't stand or watch many of her videos. And I'm talking about the non video gaming ones too. Especially those. Like I said before though, that doesn't excuse the group of people who are sending out rape and death threats. She's just another selfish person, she does not care about feminism or protecting women. She's made that clear years ago she pretends to, but not really. Sarkeesian is just a genderflip version of Jack Thompson. I get not wanting to defend gamers who act like jackasses, nor monsters that threaten others with death and rape. With that said, you shouldn't go to bat for her either. She's just another selfish individual. Whatever morals she had, that went away a long time ago. If she ever had them to begin with. Hell, there are plenty of other feminists, female especially, that don't like her. That number might have increased now compared to back then. I do not know on that one
 
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Dreiko

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Then they'll make boring games and have online spaces full of Nazis that nobody except you will want to visit.
There weren't any "nazis" anywhere I was at back in the 90s when I got into gaming communities and no corporation was being political back then either while the games were still great. How does it even follow that a game would be boring if the company doesn't push certain politics? You can have a story with politics in a game but that doesn't mean the company has to endorse it in real life, they can just say they found it interesting fictional storytelling for that vacuum and have it only go so far instead of spilling over to reality. That'd be like thinking companies who make shooting games endorse mass murder or something insane like that.


A mark of an educated mind is the ability to entertain an idea without embracing it. Game companies can and should entertain political ideas because they can help make games interesting but they shouldn't actually embrace them because to embrace one idea is to reject all the rest and rejecting so many ideas limits your creative options.
 

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Acting neutral/apolitical is literally the correct thing to do as a game company.
So, the games can't be art?
There weren't any "nazis" anywhere I was at back in the 90s when I got into gaming communities and no corporation was being political back then either while the games were still great. How does it even follow that a game would be boring if the company doesn't push certain politics? You can have a story with politics in a game but that doesn't mean the company has to endorse it in real life, they can just say they found it interesting fictional storytelling for that vacuum and have it only go so far instead of spilling over to reality. That'd be like thinking companies who make shooting games endorse mass murder or something insane like that.


A mark of an educated mind is the ability to entertain an idea without embracing it. Game companies can and should entertain political ideas because they can help make games interesting but they shouldn't actually embrace them because to embrace one idea is to reject all the rest and rejecting so many ideas limits your creative options.
Those are all very vague guidelines about a nebulous idea of "politics" that no one really followed back then either.
 
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Casual Shinji

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She did call one of her detractors a garbage person for simply sitting in the audience during one of her panels. The man in question was doing nothing but sitting there in the crowd, a sea of people, to watch her panel. She spotted him and went bananas on him. She has had numerous reports of being a piece of shit to people behind the scenes as well, and her attitude breathes the same toxicity she claims she is a victim of.
You mean Sargon of Akkad, the actual garbage human being, who by that point had made a shitload of videos on her specifically, to the point of obsession? 'Garbage human being' is quite honestly the nicest thing you could say about him.

I do wonder why you seem so desperate to defend, or at least stand by her side, despite she shitty practices? What the actual Fuck? Does she automatically deserve to get a pass on being an asshole simply because she (probably) has a vagina?
What shitty practices? Talking about sexism in games that *gasp* she didn't play? Getting paid for doing panels talking about sexism in games and talking about how she received death threats and harassment over it? No seriously, what shitty practices besides not crediting gameplay footage she used?

Why do I stand with her in this? Because people who say shit like 'The harassment was clearly good for her career, so it was obviously good for her personal life. She must love all the harassment because it made her money. She probably instigated all the harassment on purpose so she could get rich and famous.' Victim blaming horseshit like that. And yes, a large reason for why these people think of her like that is because she has a vagina. The whole 'fake gamer/geek girl' is still a very popular accusation within the gaming community. Very sensitive boys who feel girls in particular need to prove themselves to be part of the gaming community or even talk about games.

That and for her getting the ball rolling in addressing sexism in games. Something that would've gotten just as heated regardless of whether she had actually played the games or gotten paid or not. We're living a post-Sarkeesian world where it's much easier for people to actually talk about sexism in games and other geek properties without getting massively raged on, as Sarkeesian took that first, backed up wafting stink in the face. She's no longer relevant to the conversation, but the way her very name riled people up back in 2012, because she dared criticize games for a lot of their sexist content, was VERY relevant and said a lot (mostly very, very negative) about the gaming community at the time.
 

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There weren't any "nazis" anywhere I was at back in the 90s when I got into gaming communities and no corporation was being political back then either while the games were still great. How does it even follow that a game would be boring if the company doesn't push certain politics? Y
There were plenty of corporate politics back then, we were all either young(er), ignorant, or naive. Just like you're being right now. They were always there. As far as you not meeting people that are racist; it was the '90s. Not everybody had full working internet. And just because you didn't see any, doesn't make it any less true. Deal with it. Hell, I didn't get high-speed internet until 2001. And I'm talking like April of 2001.
 

Dreiko

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So, the games can't be art?

Those are all very vague guidelines about a nebulous idea of "politics" that no one really followed back then either.
You can create art while being apolitical in your personal conduct. You can create a world with principles within it that only exist in its confines and don't spill out, it's the whole separating the art from the artist. You can make art about any sort of politics because you find it merely interesting enough. You don't need to agree with the politics on top of that. In fact it's creatively bankrupt to make art about politics you already grasp and agree with, it's more compelling to see the work of someone imagining the world through the prism of politics they disagree with, and adopting those other politics and seeing where that takes them in their art, without actually believing in them in reality.

Also not every form of art needs to be some form of cautionary or educational or forward-moving thing, they can just be entertaining or enjoyable or profound or interesting without having any other form of sociopolitical impact beyond that.
 

MrCalavera

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You can create art while being apolitical in your personal conduct. You can create a world with principles within it that only exist in its confines and don't spill out, it's the whole separating the art from the artist. You can make art about any sort of politics because you find it merely interesting enough. You don't need to agree with the politics on top of that. In fact it's creatively bankrupt to make art about politics you already grasp and agree with, it's more compelling to see the work of someone imagining the world through the prism of politics they disagree with, and adopting those other politics and seeing where that takes them in their art, without actually believing in them in reality.

Also not every form of art needs to be some form of cautionary or educational or forward-moving thing, they can just be entertaining or enjoyable or profound or interesting without having any other form of sociopolitical impact beyond that.
Okay, and how does that relate to "no politics in my games" crowd?
 
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