Gena Davis institute on Gender in media tries to link violent games to mass shootings and police violence

Dwarvenhobble

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I'm pretty sure he thinks women should be forced to wear sluttier clothes so they stop being such prudes.

Like, he's bemoaning women not wanting to wear bikinis to play a sport where the men wear long tanks and board shorts, because he thinks that the reason they don't want to wear bikinis is that they don't want society to slut shame them, so obviously they should keep wearing bikinis to, I dunno, desensitize society?

Meanwhile, they just want to wear shorts and they don't like why the old dudes running the sports want them in bikinis.

Dwarven's like, 15 degrees off of hentai doujin logic right now, and most of those doujins have the dudes be the explicit bad guys.
And MysteriousGX believes that the only way we will end sexual abuse is by having women in specially designed box dresses from head to foot with large slippers on because only by covering them as fully as possible and showing nothing not even a vague outline of a body will things change.

Sorry are we not playing the game of making up bullshit to strawman one another's positions here?
 

TheMysteriousGX

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And MysteriousGX believes that the only way we will end sexual abuse is by having women in specially designed box dresses from head to foot with large slippers on because only by covering them as fully as possible and showing nothing not even a vague outline of a body will things change.

Sorry are we not playing the game of making up bullshit to strawman one another's positions here?
You've tried explaining why you think a women's beach volleyball team not wanting to wear the bikini uniform demanded by what male sports officials want them to wear is a bad thing. You are doing this by inventing mental logic paths that assume that these women would actually want to wear these mandated bikinis if it weren't for society being mean to them for doing so despite the sports league doing it deliberately to make them sexy *for* TV and society at large.

You then used these gals wearing bikinis they don't want to wear on tv to attack much skimpier videogame designs being slightly changed to be put on TV, despite the changed designs still being skimpier than the bikinis the actual real people do not want to wear.

Explain how my interpretation is flawed, I could do with a laugh
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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But that's just how the sports have been for years and the athletes had trained up through with that the whole time to suddenly go "Yeh no it's not fine now". I mean OK give them the choice but people can and will sexualise them just as much regardless of what they wear.
Yes, for years sports have had men deliberately sexualizing women against their will. That's not an argument for keeping it that way. Led to a massive fuckton of abuse, actually
A number of top mobile games lock you out of stuff or sell you lives etc. Only one dumb enough to try that on something outside of mobile was The Culling Reborn

No because as scummy as lootboxes are. The Apex ones really were just cosmetic not pay to win stuff. Oh and the game is Free to play. It's not a gatcha game where you have to open lootboxes to unlock the new Hero unit that just happens to be the new most powerful one that you need to even compete now.
And the good gacha games don't run like that either. Arknights and CyGame's library are perfectly playable without spending a dime. Done it for years. I only toss them some cash now and then because you have to pay for things that you like playing if you want there to be more of it.

Now do FIFA. Or pre-government intervention Battlefront. Besides, remember that list of mobile games you game me that *don't* have that monetization? They're still games, despite their form factor. Hell, Dandara plays *better* on a phone than it does on the Switch. Controllers make it clunky. Still games, and the people that play them are still gamers. Look at KyoStinV or Eckogen and tell me that they aren't playing games.

Weird niche you've carved out where Genshin Impact is a game on the PS4 but not on an iPad
Yes and I'm sure if they wished they could figure out a way to go along with their physique stuff and be health. OR somewhat health unless you want to yell at Dwayne Johnson because he doesn't crash diet he trains a lot
If we kept the massively built characters to only the people who can pull off that risk with minimal risk, none of the Marvel characters would have that build. So maybe all of the Marvel characters having that build is bad
 
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Cicada 5

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Pretty sure Joss Wheddon happily supported the push against sexualised women in media at one point......... and we all kinda know what happened there.

I've seen a decent amount of Whedon's work. If he was ever against sexualized women (which I have found no evidence of him saying he was), it sure wasn't reflected in his shows or movies. His foot fetish is almost as infamous as Quentin Tarantino's and his version of the Justice League movie had way more sexualized shots of Gal Gadot than Snyder's. He even went as far as threatening her because she refused to do a scene in which the Flash falls into her breasts.

They may not want to wear them for fear of how they will be perceived for doing so.
When it comes to outfits that show as much skin as possible, you argue for women having the right to wear what they want but when they themselves argue for more conservative clothing, it must be some ulterior motive forced onto them by society. Do you really not see the hypocrisy in this?
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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You've tried explaining why you think a women's beach volleyball team not wanting to wear the bikini uniform demanded by male sports officials want them to wear is a bad thing. You are doing this by inventing mental logic paths that assume that these women would actually want to wear these mandated bikinis if it weren't for society being mean to them for doing so despite the sports league doing it deliberately to make then sexy *for* TV and society at large.

You then used these gals wearing bikinis they don't want to wear on tv to attack much skimpier videogame designs being slightly changed to be put on TV, despite the changed designs still being skimpier than the bikinis the actual real people do not want to wear.

Explain how my interpretation is flawed, I could do with a laugh
1) you're assuming it is all male officials making he decisions.
2) The 90's called when society was different and wants to remind you it was a thing.
3) and you used them to justify censorship of art.
4) And all the other teams who were fine wearing it? Guess they don't count as people then according to you?
 

TheMysteriousGX

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1) you're assuming it is all male officials making he decisions.
2) The 90's called when society was different and wants to remind you it was a thing.
3) and you used them to justify censorship of art.
4) And all the other teams who were fine wearing it? Guess they don't count as people then according to you?
1) Identities of rules members are public knowledge
2) Yes, 30 years ago was a different time. That's a null argument
3) CyGames wanted a game that could be put on ESPN. ESPN has a Standards and Practices department. You want to be on ESPN, you play by ESPN's rules. The unaltered costumes are freely available optional costumes.
4) It's fine if people want to wear them. That's not what's happening, and is a clear, photographed double standard.
“If there was any kind of advantage to having little fabric, the men would be wearing them too,” said Charlene Weaving, professor and chair of human kinetics department at St. Francis Xavier University in Canada. “If there was any kind of biomechanical advantage, then men would be in Speedos. But they’re not."
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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And yet there was a push for changes to their outfits too.
Yeah, cause mandating skimpy clothes for children is bullshit. You gonna argue that a 16 year old girl shouldn't object to wearing a nude suit in from of millions of sports fans next?
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Yes, for years sports have had men deliberately sexualizing women against their will. That's not an argument for keeping it that way. Led to a massive fuckton of abuse, actually
The abuse was from those who apparently can't control themselves very well and it wouldn't matter if what said women wore it would still likely happen. So can we kindly stop with the "It's was because of the clothes that the abuse happened" thing. It's getting worryingly close to a rape apologist argument.

As for women being sexualised in sports:
1) Them are some of the most in shape often young people in the world, peak performance in their fields people will find them attractive just based on that
2) This is such public knowledge and it's so true that there's a reason the Olympic village normally gets through tons of birth control when they all get together in 1 place
3) How often have male footballers been seen as sexualised? It's quite often. I'm sure David Beckham just happened to be in boxer shorts adverts because he happened to have the right hair colour and not anything else lol.


And the good gacha games don't run like that either. Arknights and CyGame's library are perfectly playable without spending a dime. Done it for years. I only toss them some cash now and then because you have to pay for things that you like playing if you want there to be more of it.

Now do FIFA. Or pre-government intervention Battlefront. Besides, remember that list of mobile games you game me that *don't* have that monetization? They're still games, despite their form factor. Hell, Dandara plays *better* on a phone than it does on the Switch. Controllers make it clunky. Still games, and the people that play them are still gamers. Look at KyoStinV or Eckogen and tell me that they aren't playing games.
Weird niche you've carved out where Genshin Impact is a game on the PS4 but not on an iPad
Perfectly playable eh? In a free to wait way? A free to grind way? or an actual playable way?

And surfing is still a Water sport same as sailing. Very different water sports though.
You want me to leave you alone with the Strawman you keep trying to push here and I've so far burned about 5 times only for you to keep trying to remake it?

If we kept the massively built characters to only the people who can pull off that risk with minimal risk, none of the Marvel characters would have that build. So maybe all of the Marvel characters having that build is bad
I mean you could just have done them with other actors lol
 

Dwarvenhobble

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I've seen a decent amount of Whedon's work. If he was ever against sexualized women (which I have found no evidence of him saying he was), it sure wasn't reflected in his shows or movies. His foot fetish is almost as infamous as Quentin Tarantino's and his version of the Justice League movie had way more sexualized shots of Gal Gadot than Snyder's. He even went as far as threatening her because she refused to do a scene in which the Flash falls into her breasts.
No he justhappily championed and lent his support to a certain pop culture critics campaign lol

Also I know about the Flash thing but not the more sexualising shots, never heard about that before in regards to him.

When it comes to outfits that show as much skin as possible, you argue for women having the right to wear what they want but when they themselves argue for more conservative clothing, it must be some ulterior motive forced onto them by society. Do you really not see the hypocrisy in this?
Well chicks ok with the outfits get called "The cool chick ok with misogyny" or accused of having internalised misogyny so as I said they can choose to wear what they like in my view but it does say a lot about society in said choices.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Yeah, cause mandating skimpy clothes for children is bullshit. You gonna argue that a 16 year old girl shouldn't object to wearing a nude suit in from of millions of sports fans next?
While I'll say it's creepy I'll also point out again I said the reason for it relating to judges being able to see the lines of the body to judge execution.

Welcome to the sport people chose to do, are you suggested they only now realised they'd have to do this and just didn't know before this point?
 

TheMysteriousGX

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The abuse was from those who apparently can't control themselves very well and it wouldn't matter if what said women wore it would still likely happen. So can we kindly stop with the "It's was because of the clothes that the abuse happened" thing. It's getting worryingly close to a rape apologist argument.

As for women being sexualised in sports:
1) Them are some of the most in shape often young people in the world, peak performance in their fields people will find them attractive just based on that
2) This is such public knowledge and it's so true that there's a reason the Olympic village normally gets through tons of birth control when they all get together in 1 place
3) How often have male footballers been seen as sexualised? It's quite often. I'm sure David Beckham just happened to be in boxer shorts adverts because he happened to have the right hair colour and not anything else lol.
If David Beckham's soccer uniform was just boxer shorts, you might have an argument

Perfectly playable eh? In a free to wait way? A free to grind way? or an actual playable way?
Arknights is deliberately designed to be opened twice a day at max and there's basically zero reason to rush higher levels, Granblue Fantasy technically has a stamina system but they give out enough pots that it's basically meaningless. Both routinely give out dozens or hundreds of draws, thousands sometimes in Granblue's case, and you can beat the vast majority of content with the free grind. Again, I do that
And surfing is still a Water sport same as sailing. Very different water sports though.
You want me to leave you alone with the Strawman you keep trying to push here and I've so far burned about 5 times only for you to keep trying to remake it?
Dude, it's your strawman where Genshin Impact is both sailing *and* surfing.
I mean you could just have done them with other actors lol
But they didn't, so now we have hundreds of Marvel diets fucking people up
 

TheMysteriousGX

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While I'll say it's creepy I'll also point out again I said the reason for it relating to judges being able to see the lines of the body to judge execution.

Welcome to the sport people chose to do, are you suggested they only now realised they'd have to do this and just didn't know before this point?
Lmao, "it's okay because it's always been okay, force that child into a leotard if they want to compete. Doesn't matter that there's other alternatives, that's censorship. It's creepy but should not be changed despite alternatives existing that the men freely use"
 

Dwarvenhobble

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1) Identities of rules members are public knowledge
2) Yes, 30 years ago was a different time. That's a null argument
3) CyGames wanted a game that could be put on ESPN. ESPN has a Standards and Practices department. You want to be on ESPN, you play by ESPN's rules. The unaltered costumes are freely available optional costumes.
4) It's fine if people want to wear them. That's not what's happening, and is a clear, photographed double standard.
1) Ok then
Here are the members of the board for the sport
Oh look there are women there. Funny how your assumption was was
2) It also shows societies capacity to change. This is just another turn of the same kind of cycle as was seen in the past. Following the Renaissance came the actions of the council of Trent and after that a reversal of it again somewhat.
3) And yet my argument is doesn't that say something about society right there that ESPN would be so against said costumes?
4) Oh because some of the women couldn't possibly be fine wearing them right?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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If David Beckham's soccer uniform was just boxer shorts, you might have an argument
And if the Women's soccer team one was just underwear you'd have a counter one.
Something something male swimmer generally are the first at most Olympics to pair off with other athletes

Arknights is deliberately designed to be opened twice a day at max and there's basically zero reason to rush higher levels, Granblue Fantasy technically has a stamina system but they give out enough pots that it's basically meaningless. Both routinely give out dozens or hundreds of draws, thousands sometimes in Granblue's case, and you can beat the vast majority of content with the free grind. Again, I do that
Dude, it's your strawman where Genshin Impact is both sailing *and* surfing.
And does Genshin not have a lot of mobile mechanics and was birthed by a company mostly making mobile games who make most of their money likely from mobile players?
Just become some big ships offer surfing on deck doesn't mean it's the same as sailing.

But they didn't, so now we have hundreds of Marvel diets fucking people up
and we didn't before?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Lmao, "it's okay because it's always been okay, force that child into a leotard if they want to compete. Doesn't matter that there's other alternatives, that's censorship. It's creepy but should not be changed despite alternatives existing that the men freely use"
Well the alternative is a skin type lycra one anyway unless you'd like the change some of the fundamental scoring systems of the sport.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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2) It also shows societies capacity to change. This is just another turn of the same kind of cycle as was seen in the past. Following the Renaissance came the actions of the council of Trent and after that a reversal of it again somewhat.
3) And yet my argument is doesn't that say something about society right there that ESPN would be so against said costumes?
4) Oh because some of the women couldn't possibly be fine wearing them right?
2) Still a null argument
3) That a sports channel isn't gonna feature women's lingerie?
4) I literally said "It's fine if people want to wear them"
And if the Women's soccer team one was just underwear you'd have a counter one.
Volleyball team. Where the men's uniform is long tank and board shorts and the women's team is a very specifically cut bikini

And does Genshin not have a lot of mobile mechanics and was birthed by a company mostly making mobile games who make most of their money likely from mobile players?
Just become some big ships offer surfing on deck doesn't mean it's the same as sailing.
The fuck does that even mean?
and we didn't before?
We sure did, actually. You explicitly didn't give a shit about them either
Well the alternative is a skin type lycra one anyway unless you'd like the change some of the fundamental scoring systems of the sport.
You are really bad at this, you know?
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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2) Still a null argument
3) That a sports channel isn't gonna feature women's lingerie?
4) I literally said "It's fine if people want to wear them"
2) No it once again shows at various points in society various things have been seen differently.
3) Weren't we also arguing about Beach Volleyball? Also I can't think of any fighting game where the default costume is lingerie
4) Yes, my position is they're fine to have the choice, hell give the men a choice for Speedos and shirtless. I just think the choice being made would be somewhat due to the nature of society at present and concern over societal perception than much else.

Volleyball team. Where the men's uniform is long tank and board shorts and the women's team is a very specifically cut bikini
But David Beckham plays football

The fuck does that even mean?
That companies would love to see console and PC game looking far more like mobile with those kind of systems and monitisation if they could and Genshin is one of the mobile games entering into a console space things.

We sure did, actually. You explicitly didn't give a shit about them either
You know that do you? You know for a fact I never mentioned anything about fad diets before the MCU was a thing? You've got through everything I've ever posted everywhere have you? Because I'll tell you now, I have mentioned them at some point in the past almost certainly lol But as I don't spend all my time rallying against it I guess it wouldn't count or something.

You are really bad at this, you know?
Ah yes the skin tight unitard clearly doesn't show anything at all despite being skin tight.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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2) No it once again shows at various points in society various things have been seen differently.
3) Weren't we also arguing about Beach Volleyball? Also I can't think of any fighting game where the default costume is lingerie
4) Yes, my position is they're fine to have the choice, hell give the men a choice for Speedos and shirtless. I just think the choice being made would be somewhat due to the nature of society at present and concern over societal perception than much else.
2) Obviously. Means nothing
3) Because they added a strap for the gravity defying top and changed the thong into a bikini, yes. You are explicitly objecting to that
4) Unfalsifiable claim, made while arguing against their own opinions over *not having a choice*
But David Beckham plays football
And his football uniform isn't a swimsuit, yes

That companies would love to see console and PC game looking far more like mobile with those kind of systems and monitisation if they could and Genshin is one of the mobile games entering into a console space things.
Shitty monetization doesn't make a game not a game.
You know that do you? You know for a fact I never mentioned anything about fad diets before the MCU was a thing? You've got through everything I've ever posted everywhere have you? Because I'll tell you now, I have mentioned them at some point in the past almost certainly lol But as I don't spend all my time rallying against it I guess it wouldn't count or something.
I don't give a shit about your past, you are actively not caring *now*

Ah yes the skin tight unitard clearly doesn't show anything at all despite being skin tight.
If that's all it is, why are you calling them prudes from wanting it?