Gena Davis institute on Gender in media tries to link violent games to mass shootings and police violence

Dwarvenhobble

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"There's definitely going to be an upswell of people clamoring for Bayonetta censorship, trust me. Sure, I said it was already happening but it will definitely happen in the future"
So we ignoring the people who actually have called for it in the past of the series?

Not really.
YEs really

Designed As and Interpreted As are two separate things. Capcom wasn't expecting Lady D to be a sex symbol
I bet some-one who designed her did expect it lol

You said it was. You said you saw an upswell of people championing it. That's bullshit
Not to the level of the past 2

At some point you're gonna have to make peace with people not liking the things you like in the same way that you like them
I have done. Now if they could make peace that not everything is meant to be Burger King where they get to "Have it their way" that would be very good

With zero proof other than "used games stores have inventory that's not shifting", which isn't how that works
Which means there likely were sales of it that happened for enough copies to be out in the wild.

No I'm good. She's getting about the attention she deserves now that weird nerds aren't branding her as Jack Thompson 2.0, destroyer of all things sexy. Meanwhile I get stuff like Hades and the other varieties of cool and sexy games.
Mostly because the industry gave up on her possibly opening the door to some magical new massive untapped market.

So should we give a shit about unrealistic body standards in our actors and actresses promoting unhealthy body standards now? Or is that prudish censorship?
Entirely depends on their role.
I'd kind of expect action hero athlete types to be in the kind of shape they are if they're spending all their normal day time on missions or training for missions.

He killed himself at around the same time that the pedo Savile was finally getting outed. Of course they tried to bury his complaint, the BBC was trying to protect a dead pedophile at the time
And his complaint had been going through the motions for years before then

Yes, why do you figure the religiously family-friendly Disney Corporation doesn't have scantily clad women running around, it is a mystery. The dudes might not be wearing shirts for one brief, body wrecking scene, but most of them are more sterile than sexy.
The guys do enough that despite not being in the script the director of Thor Ragnarok insisted Chris Hemsworth needed to do a scene taking his shirt off.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Why ?

She has been irrelevant for years now. And nothing she says is particularly insightful or valuable in its own right. Seems like utter waste of time to give her any more attention.

I mean, shouldn't you be happy that people ignore her/ don't care about her anymore ? Do you really want her to have more influence an reach only for you to be able to complain about her influence and reach ?

Why do you still care about her ? What makes her more relevant than all the other weirdos publishing controversal nonsense on the internet to get clicks and attention ? Yes, she had her five minutes of fame more than half a decade ago, but even that was built completely on being controversial.
Well part of this threads discussion kicked off because I dared bring her up.......Also like it or not people inspired by her ideas are now the ones to watch out for carrying on her work as such.

Also she's not fully gone she did a consulting gig for a recent Xbox exclusive.
 

Silvanus

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For said area it could be defined as that.
Yes, for beaches, and not for 1) elsewhere, or 2) games, it could be defined as that. You are correct.


Mostly because those are the ones who show up most one way or another.
Maybe on Grindr.

*checks*

...Actually no, not even there.

So let me get this right you believe sexy women in video games is propaganda?
Nope, try again.

And since this starting premise is bunk, the entire following paragraph is irrelevant guff.

You refuse to deal with the baggage that comes inexorably linked with your positions.
Because it doesn't. You've just repeatedly insisted that I believe shit that I A) Never said or expressed, and B) don't believe.

Here, let me try: it's "inexorably linked with your position" that you see women as chattel or objects. Any denial is just 'cos you got called out on it, and you refuse to acknowledge these unfortunate connections. Ooh, this is fun!
 
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Asita

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I think (particularly if you're neurotypical yourself) you should probably think really hard about what you're actually saying when you compare autistic people to robots, and whether that's an accurate or charitable description, or about what it would mean to actually live with that stereotype.
I fear you miss my point. I'm not saying that robots are an accurate depiction of neurodivergent people, I'm saying that the common depiction of robots (struggling with social interaction, recognizing and contextualizing emotion, etc) hews close enough that people start noticing parallels, particularly with Asperger's (or at least the common understanding thereof). Frankly, accuracy is irrelevant; it's coding whether it tracks to reality or to stereotype. Hell, for the most part the coding of this particular example isn't even intentional.

Point of fact, it's not uncommon to see the specifics of the coding applied to a given narrative criticized as contemptible for how it reflects a lack of research or understanding on the author's part. Eg, Detroit: Become Human was blasted for its hamfisted and tone-deaf attempts to paint the robotic characters as basically Civil Rights era African Americans.

Hell, to your point, this manner of writing robotic characters has been getting increasing flack specifically because the near ubiquitousness of the pattern (and the fact that representation of those demographics outside of such characters is in the range of slim-to-none) carries prejudicial undertones that neurodivergent (and asexual/aromantic) people are somehow less human or 'incomplete' as people. I didn't invoke robots as giving such demographics fair representation - because it certainly doesn't - but rather I invoked that convention specifically because it showed how coding can carry negative implications if the writer isn't careful. And in that particular case, a lot of writers aren't careful.

This in turn ties back to my original point. And respectfully, I feel it's worth reemphasizing, as it reads like you're still treating coding as a form of fanservice, something intended to hook a given demographic audience ("aimed at particular groups" and "appeal is an important part [of coding]" as you put it). While yes, coding can result in the evoked demographic liking it, the operative word is "can". Coding is completely independent of targeting. That something is written in a way that is evocative of a situation or demographic does not imply that those people are a target demographic for the work. Point of fact, one of the more common bits of coding (due in no small part to the influence of the dumpster fire that was the Hays Code) is giving villainous characters [stereotypically] queer attitudes and mannerisms specifically to help paint those characters as somehow 'wrong' or incompatible with society due to those traits historically being perceived as socially unacceptable. The social implications of that are absolutely terrible, to say the least, but the terribleness is mitigated somewhat by the ironic fact that such characters often end up being just plain fun and more interesting (and therefore often more popular) than the protagonists (Eg. most Disney animated villains).

Another bit of coding that probably surpasses that in terms of commonness is actually the use of accents to evoke personality traits (stereotypes, really) through association. To use some easy examples, if you watched Yugioh as a kid, you probably remember that several of the characters had strong accents for that very reason. Bakura - who consistently spoke very formally in Japanese - was given a British accent to convey that he was formal and polite, whereas the very informal Joey (Jonouchi) was given a Brooklyn accent to make him sound more like a rude loudmouth. That's not fair to Brits and certainly not fair to Brooklynites, but it's an association that's relatively intuitive to the general audience.

My Fair Lady similarly is built on the idea, with the lower classes using strong Cockney accents, and Eliza being trained to speak with a 'proper' British accent with the explicit purpose of convincing people that she was instead a member of the upper classes based entirely on how she spoke (ultimately resulting in a linguist mistakenly deducing that she was in fact Hungarian Royalty). Want the kicker? We use the exact same accents to convey the exact same thing in Les Miserables...where the characters are French and have no business speaking in any kind of British accent. While it can be handwaved as a practical use of accents in My Fair Lady, in Les Mis it's rather blatantly done purely to convey the social associations we assigned to those accents. Similarly, if you look at the character guidelines for the play Lysistrata (by Aristophanes), you're probably going to notice that it suggests Lampito should have a thick accent (Usually Scottish in England and either Appalachian or Texan in the States) to convey a meaning to modern audiences that roughly approximated the Spartan stereotype that Arisophenes was making use of.

The corollary of this, of course, is that just as something being coded to a demographic doesn't mean it will be flattering or appealing to that demographic, neither does something being appealing to a group in any way indicate that it was coded to that group. To use an easy example, Draco Malfoy was incredibly popular with lady fans, but he is certainly not coded as a lady. As we went over, coding is about perceived parallels and he's not evocative of anything in particular, least of all the demographic that started fawning over him after Tom Felton started portraying him in the films (no seriously, there's a marked difference in the character's popularity coinciding with the release of the films).

Heck, for that matter, coding doesn't even necessarily track to a demographic. The Kaiju of Pacific Rim, for instance, are coded as Climate Change and the catastrophic ecological changes (such as more dangerous hurricanes and functionally poisoned oceans) that result from it. It's not for nothing that the giant robots are described as "giving you the strength to fight a hurricane and win" and then get thrown up against giant threats (that were becoming both larger and more frequent) coming from the ocean, that we then give cutesy nicknames and rank on a 1-5 Categorization system, and which giant seawalls failed to meaningfully impair (Remember, it's a Guillermo del Toro movie. His philosophy is that - and I quote - "monsters are living, breathing metaphors"). And going back to the OG kaiju, Godzilla was the terror of the bomb and specifically the dangers of our continued testing and development of such weapons, with the opening scenes in particular making very unsubtle reference to the Bikini Atoll disaster.

Point being that there is neither a positive or negative correlation between appeal and coding; it can easily go either way. Depending on the specifics it can be very welcome, very offensive, or anything in between. It's very much a case-by-case basis, and that's part of what makes this such a complicated subject. There's no clean 'this is good' or 'this is bad' about it, nor is it something tied to even a general authorial intent. Never mind that the associations an audience makes are not always intentional on the writer's part.

And I apologize for talking your ear off about this, but literature and the analysis thereof is kinda a passion of mine.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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So we ignoring the people who actually have called for it in the past of the series?
Considering my argument is that things are sexier in general these days? Yes, absolutely. You said that people were cheering on the censorship of Bayonetta 3 after the trailer reveal. You've provided zero examples of that

I bet some-one who designed her did expect it lol
Sure, your entire argument has run on "I bet" instead of any actual evidence for awhile now

Not to the level of the past 2
Exactly: the specter of censorship is just that: illusionary

I have done. Now if they could make peace that not everything is meant to be Burger King where they get to "Have it their way" that would be very good
Says the dude whining that a company changed a skirt into shorts when they had to render somebody crawling in 4k

Mostly because the industry gave up on her possibly opening the door to some magical new massive untapped market.
The number of gamers in the world's gone up by 50% in three years, with a massive share of that being ever more sophisticated mobile games. And guess what the main demographic of mobile gamers are? The Switch is selling fantastically among women relative to the general market for similar reasons.

They tapped that market, and it is massive
Entirely depends on their role.
I'd kind of expect action hero athlete types to be in the kind of shape they are if they're spending all their normal day time on missions or training for missions.
The sort of ultra-muscled, unhealthily buff bodies in marvel movies aren't what you get with regular exercise and experience. They're well beyond Gym Fit, that's what makes it unhealthy to aspire to.
So again, if you could give a straight answer for once: should we stop having people aspire to unhealthy standards of beauty or would that be prudish censorship?
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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Yes, for beaches, and not for 1) elsewhere, or 2) games, it could be defined as that. You are correct.
1) Well some elsewhere's too:
Some Raves
Some Redneck events

2) Are Bikini's that common in games outside of where they would contextually fit or as extra outfits not the main ones? I mean you don't see many people dressing as say Samus outside of conventions but you do have Samus costumes in some games and other such things.



Maybe on Grindr.

*checks*

...Actually no, not even there.
1) Grinder is the general public
2) It sort of does but not so much the muscle guy as the Twink / Bear dynamic.


Nope, try again.

And since this starting premise is bunk, the entire following paragraph is irrelevant guff.
So why bring up propaganda?
Why point out like propaganda repeats like sexy women keep coming up in media?
I'm sure we already went over this in this threat but Propaganda also relies on specific stuff designed to influence too.
Was the whole propaganda stuff a total non sequitur or were you hoping to get a knee jerk reaction out of presumably other people by trying to link the two concepts in a style non dis-similar from Anita trying to link sexy game characters to Domestic violence and rape without specifically saying they are linked......


Because it doesn't. You've just repeatedly insisted that I believe shit that I A) Never said or expressed, and B) don't believe.

Here, let me try: it's "inexorably linked with your position" that you see women as chattel or objects. Any denial is just 'cos you got called out on it, and you refuse to acknowledge these unfortunate connections. Ooh, this is fun!
OK then if it's not linked care to explain how it's not linked? Or how you positions works with the thing being unlinked from it?
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Considering my argument is that things are sexier in general these days? Yes, absolutely. You said that people were cheering on the censorship of Bayonetta 3 after the trailer reveal. You've provided zero examples of that
That's entirely a comparative thing.
Are things sexier now than I dunno the 2010s? Yeh quite possibly.

Are things sexier now than say the 80s video nasties era? I'd argue maybe not.
Hell again to remind you topless nudity was fine in PG films in the past. Then PG-13 films when PG-13 game in. These days it would likely get slapped with a NC-17

You can argue the top adult end mostly in games is seeing more sex but again Atari back in the day was fine with sex games (yes very crude ones that weren't very good) but modern consoles won't allow AO games onto the systems.

Sure, your entire argument has run on "I bet" instead of any actual evidence for awhile now
Well your argument is Capcom didn't expect it which doesn't have evidence either lol

Exactly: the specter of censorship is just that: illusionary
So those same people will suddenly magically have changed their minds despite being against the previous 2?

Says the dude whining that a company changed a skirt into shorts when they had to render somebody crawling in 4k
So what is wrong with a skirt?

The number of gamers in the world's gone up by 50% in three years, with a massive share of that being ever more sophisticated mobile games. And guess what the main demographic of mobile gamers are? The Switch is selling fantastically among women relative to the general market for similar reasons.
They tapped that market, and it is massive
Ah yes mobile games truly the pinnacle of creativity in the industry and not tons of soul-less manipulative skinner box style games using social engagement ideas to try and convince people to spent more money out of the belief they're helping people. Do tell me how mobile games so represent Anita and Cos great vision for what gaming could be and incorporate their ideas, I'd really love to hear this one.

The sort of ultra-muscled, unhealthily buff bodies in marvel movies aren't what you get with regular exercise and experience. They're well beyond Gym Fit, that's what makes it unhealthy to aspire to.
So again, if you could give a straight answer for once: should we stop having people aspire to unhealthy standards of beauty or would that be prudish censorship?
Yes, though again that's for an average person to aspire to but they make some level of sense given the heros.

Just look up what Olympic swimmers etc look like.

Context kind of matters and well we're often not seeing exactly other contexts and examples. That's why again I said airbrushed photos etc are the bigger issue than the guy playing a character who basically lives fighting or in the gym looking like he lives fighting and or in the gym.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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That's entirely a comparative thing.
Are things sexier now than I dunno the 2010s? Yeh quite possibly.

Are things sexier now than say the 80s video nasties era? I'd argue maybe not.
Hell again to remind you topless nudity was fine in PG films in the past. Then PG-13 films when PG-13 game in. These days it would likely get slapped with a NC-17

You can argue the top adult end mostly in games is seeing more sex but again Atari back in the day was fine with sex games (yes very crude ones that weren't very good) but modern consoles won't allow AO games onto the systems.
So do it like the old days: build bootleg cartridges. Or, you know, PC games and android APKs
Well your argument is Capcom didn't expect it which doesn't have evidence either lol
If you designed something to be sexy, why would you be surprised why people thought it was sexy?
So those same people will suddenly magically have changed their minds despite being against the previous 2?
Some, probably. People change after half a decade. But you said it was "growing". Even if literally everybody who thought Bayonetta was oversexualized in stupid ways in the first two games haven't changed their opinion, that's not growing.
So what is wrong with a skirt?
On this particular model, camera angle, and resolution? Having to render 4k panties. Which isn't necessarily a problem, but might've clashed with the horror vibe they were going for.
Ah yes mobile games truly the pinnacle of creativity in the industry and not tons of soul-less manipulative skinner box style games using social engagement ideas to try and convince people to spent more money out of the belief they're helping people. Do tell me how mobile games so represent Anita and Cos great vision for what gaming could be and incorporate their ideas, I'd really love to hear this one.
Which part, the part how that's not different from most AAA games, or the part where women are the primary customers of mobile games?
Like, I know you have a predisposition towards mobile games, but there's so wild shit out here, my dude. Horror games, fashion games, fashion horror bishojo games, intensely political anime games featuring all scores of cool and sexy kemonomimi people trying to survive on a hell world of disease and oppression, and meme happy idle games
Yes, though again that's for an average person to aspire to but they make some level of sense given the heros.

Just look up what Olympic swimmers etc look like.

Context kind of matters and well we're often not seeing exactly other contexts and examples. That's why again I said airbrushed photos etc are the bigger issue than the guy playing a character who basically lives fighting or in the gym looking like he lives fighting and or in the gym.
You're right: context matters! And the context we are talking about is attempted sexualization of men in superhero movies, not professional athletes, so why are you desperately trying to change the context?
It's an easy question: should Hollywood stop promoting body images that are harmful or is that prudish censorship?

Do you actually care or is this performative whataboutism?
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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So do it like the old days: build bootleg cartridges. Or, you know, PC games and android APKs
yeh then you get payment options shut down like Robert Yang did.

If you designed something to be sexy, why would you be surprised why people thought it was sexy?
because of just how well it was recieved.

Some, probably. People change after half a decade. But you said it was "growing". Even if literally everybody who thought Bayonetta was oversexualized in stupid ways in the first two games haven't changed their opinion, that's not growing.
It is if more people are joining them

On this particular model, camera angle, and resolution? Having to render 4k panties. Which isn't necessarily a problem, but might've clashed with the horror vibe they were going for.
Because sex and horror have never gone hand in hand before......

Which part, the part how that's not different from most AAA games, or the part where women are the primary customers of mobile games?
Like, I know you have a predisposition towards mobile games, but there's so wild shit out here, my dude. Horror games, fashion games, fashion horror bishojo games, intensely political anime games featuring all scores of cool and sexy kemonomimi people trying to survive on a hell world of disease and oppression, and meme happy idle games
All of which offering a nice range of microtransactions I'm sure.

You're right: context matters! And the context we are talking about is attempted sexualization of men in superhero movies, not professional athletes, so why are you desperately trying to change the context?
It's an easy question: should Hollywood stop promoting body images that are harmful or is that prudish censorship?

Do you actually care or is this performative whataboutism?
So do you not get the comparison with said hero characters and athletes?

The answer isn't stop promoting one body type (especially in cases where it makes sense) but be willing to showcase other body types too but the backlash to fat Thor in Endgame shows that there were quite a lot of women going to Marvel to oggle what they saw as sexy guys and were very upset over Thor no longer being hot and on show for them.
 

Gordon_4

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I fear you miss my point. I'm not saying that robots are an accurate depiction of neurodivergent people, I'm saying that the common depiction of robots (struggling with social interaction, recognizing and contextualizing emotion, etc) hews close enough that people start noticing parallels, particularly with Asperger's (or at least the common understanding thereof). Frankly, accuracy is irrelevant; it's coding whether it tracks to reality or to stereotype. Hell, for the most part the coding of this particular example isn't even intentional.

Point of fact, it's not uncommon to see the specifics of the coding applied to a given narrative criticized as contemptible for how it reflects a lack of research or understanding on the author's part. Eg, Detroit: Become Human was blasted for its hamfisted and tone-deaf attempts to paint the robotic characters as basically Civil Rights era African Americans.

Hell, to your point, this manner of writing robotic characters has been getting increasing flack specifically because the near ubiquitousness of the pattern (and the fact that representation of those demographics outside of such characters is in the range of slim-to-none) carries prejudicial undertones that neurodivergent (and asexual/aromantic) people are somehow less human or 'incomplete' as people. I didn't invoke robots as giving such demographics fair representation - because it certainly doesn't - but rather I invoked that convention specifically because it showed how coding can carry negative implications if the writer isn't careful. And in that particular case, a lot of writers aren't careful.

This in turn ties back to my original point. And respectfully, I feel it's worth reemphasizing, as it reads like you're still treating coding as a form of fanservice, something intended to hook a given demographic audience ("aimed at particular groups" and "appeal is an important part [of coding]" as you put it). While yes, coding can result in the evoked demographic liking it, the operative word is "can". Coding is completely independent of targeting. That something is written in a way that is evocative of a situation or demographic does not imply that those people are a target demographic for the work. Point of fact, one of the more common bits of coding (due in no small part to the influence of the dumpster fire that was the Hays Code) is giving villainous characters [stereotypically] queer attitudes and mannerisms specifically to help paint those characters as somehow 'wrong' or incompatible with society due to those traits historically being perceived as socially unacceptable. The social implications of that are absolutely terrible, to say the least, but the terribleness is mitigated somewhat by the ironic fact that such characters often end up being just plain fun and more interesting (and therefore often more popular) than the protagonists (Eg. most Disney animated villains).

Another bit of coding that probably surpasses that in terms of commonness is actually the use of accents to evoke personality traits (stereotypes, really) through association. To use some easy examples, if you watched Yugioh as a kid, you probably remember that several of the characters had strong accents for that very reason. Bakura - who consistently spoke very formally in Japanese - was given a British accent to convey that he was formal and polite, whereas the very informal Joey (Jonouchi) was given a Brooklyn accent to make him sound more like a rude loudmouth. That's not fair to Brits and certainly not fair to Brooklynites, but it's an association that's relatively intuitive to the general audience.

My Fair Lady similarly is built on the idea, with the lower classes using strong Cockney accents, and Eliza being trained to speak with a 'proper' British accent with the explicit purpose of convincing people that she was instead a member of the upper classes based entirely on how she spoke (ultimately resulting in a linguist mistakenly deducing that she was in fact Hungarian Royalty). Want the kicker? We use the exact same accents to convey the exact same thing in Les Miserables...where the characters are French and have no business speaking in any kind of British accent. While it can be handwaved as a practical use of accents in My Fair Lady, in Les Mis it's rather blatantly done purely to convey the social associations we assigned to those accents. Similarly, if you look at the character guidelines for the play Lysistrata (by Aristophanes), you're probably going to notice that it suggests Lampito should have a thick accent (Usually Scottish in England and either Appalachian or Texan in the States) to convey a meaning to modern audiences that roughly approximated the Spartan stereotype that Arisophenes was making use of.

The corollary of this, of course, is that just as something being coded to a demographic doesn't mean it will be flattering or appealing to that demographic, neither does something being appealing to a group in any way indicate that it was coded to that group. To use an easy example, Draco Malfoy was incredibly popular with lady fans, but he is certainly not coded as a lady. As we went over, coding is about perceived parallels and he's not evocative of anything in particular, least of all the demographic that started fawning over him after Tom Felton started portraying him in the films (no seriously, there's a marked difference in the character's popularity coinciding with the release of the films).
See also; Severus Snape once word got out Alan Rickman was playing him.
 

Cicada 5

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1) Well some elsewhere's too:
Some Raves
Some Redneck events
I didn't realize Mortal Kombat and Dead or Alive were games about raves or redneck events as opposed to being about fighting.

2) Are Bikini's that common in games outside of where they would contextually fit or as extra outfits not the main ones? I mean you don't see many people dressing as say Samus outside of conventions but you do have Samus costumes in some games and other such things.
If they're not that common in the first place, why is the idea of them being removed a problem for you? If they are, maybe we should consider why that is and if it is necessary.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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yeh then you get payment options shut down like Robert Yang did.
Only thing I could find was Twitch bans, which duh, and he's got an itch.io page
It is if more people are joining them
Except that's not happening. You only found half a tweet, if you squint
Because sex and horror have never gone hand in hand before......
Take it up with Capcom, I'm not in charge of their vibes. Sexy horror is a thing but I don't really equate it with Resident Evil as a whole
All of which offering a nice range of microtransactions I'm sure.
How much DLC does very real game Dead or Alive have? APEX? Madden? FF14? Sims? Minecraft?

They are games, time for you to fucking deal
So do you not get the comparison with said hero characters and athletes?

The answer isn't stop promoting one body type (especially in cases where it makes sense) but be willing to showcase other body types too but the backlash to fat Thor in Endgame shows that there were quite a lot of women going to Marvel to oggle what they saw as sexy guys and were very upset over Thor no longer being hot and on show for them.
Still refuse to answer the very basic question of "should Marvel stop promoting literally unhealthy body standards?" Why is that?
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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I didn't realize Mortal Kombat and Dead or Alive were games about raves or redneck events as opposed to being about fighting.
They're also street fights where people can have their spines broken and get back up and keep fighting.


If they're not that common in the first place, why is the idea of them being removed a problem for you? If they are, maybe we should consider why that is and if it is necessary.
Well why should they need to be removed?
 

Cicada 5

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They're also street fights where people can have their spines broken and get back up and keep fighting.
Which is completely irrelevant. No one is saying these games need to adhere to reality 100% but a fighting game series does not need girls in swimsuits to sell. There is a time and a place for this stuff and if you're that hard up for TnA, you can easily find it elsewhere. It's one thing to criticize these games for story and gameplay bit throwing a fit over not being able to see boobs is just ridiculous when that isn't even the main point of the game in the first place.


Well why should they need to be removed?
Because they add nothing to the game and are unnecessary.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Only thing I could find was Twitch bans, which duh, and he's got an itch.io page
Well he also had paypal block payments to him before along with other companies refusing to process payment.
Except that's not happening. You only found half a tweet, if you squint
And there's the ones you said you'd found
Take it up with Capcom, I'm not in charge of their vibes
Or you could

How much DLC does very real game Dead or Alive have? APEX? Madden? FF14? Sims? Minecraft?
And all can be played fine without DLC, they don't strangle a school kid character on screen unless you cough up money (yes a Mobile game really did do that_
They are games, time for you to fucking deal
And how many of them took the great word of Anita Sarkeesian to heart and made these oh so desirable games and didn't just go down the zynga / Candy Crush style route again?

Still refuse to answer the very basic question of "should Marvel stop promoting literally unhealthy body standards?" Why is that?
I gave an answer. You not liking it because it's nuanced is your problem. Doesn't mean what I said wasn't an answer.
 

Dwarvenhobble

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Which is completely irrelevant. No one is saying these games need to adhere to reality 100% but a fighting game series does not need girls in swimsuits to sell. There is a time and a place for this stuff and if you're that hard up for TnA, you can easily find it elsewhere. It's one thing to criticize these games for story and gameplay bit throwing a fit over not being able to see boobs is just ridiculous when that isn't even the main point of the game in the first place.
Oh right so it's not at all relevant that they already exist clearly not within our physical laws and version of reality but somehow it's a problem the characters don't dress like our version of reality?

It doesn't need the swimsuits to sell. It doesn't not sell worse because of them. If you have a problem where you immediately start fapping and can't control yourself around depictions of sexy women that's your issue bud. Just because I can find it elsewhere doesn't give a good reason for it to go.

As for "Barely seeing a boob" well that's what people are doing who want them covered up and I'm sorry if suggesting repeating the actions of the council of Trent is a bad thing so offends you so but I'm planning to keep on saying it.


Because they add nothing to the game and are unnecessary.
*Points to Dive Kick*
So are a lot of things in fighting games why do you specifically object to sexy costumes?
 

Cicada 5

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The answer isn't stop promoting one body type (especially in cases where it makes sense) but be willing to showcase other body types too but the backlash to fat Thor in Endgame shows that there were quite a lot of women going to Marvel to oggle what they saw as sexy guys and were very upset over Thor no longer being hot and on show for them.
That wasn't what the backlash to fat Thor was about. People had no issue with Thor being fat, what they had an issue with was the movie mocking him for it even though he had gained weight due to depression. If you want to see people who hate the idea of Thor being fat on principle, check out the Kotaku in Action subreddit.
 
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Cicada 5

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Oh right so it's not at all relevant that they already exist clearly not within our physical laws and version of reality but somehow it's a problem the characters don't dress like our version of reality?
Please stop being obtuse and actually respond to the arguments being made instead of strawmen.

If you have a problem where you immediately start fapping and can't control yourself around depictions of sexy women that's your issue bud.
And if you have an issue where you can't play a game without sexy women, that's your issue that you clearly need help with.


Just because I can find it elsewhere doesn't give a good reason for it to go.
You've yet to provide a remotely good reason for it to stay.

As for "Barely seeing a boob" well that's what people are doing who want them covered up and I'm sorry if suggesting repeating the actions of the council of Trent is a bad thing so offends you so but I'm planning to keep on saying it.
This argument is about as original as the idiots whining about Shariah Law over Jade and Skarlet's new outfits.


*Points to Dive Kick*
So are a lot of things in fighting games why do you specifically object to sexy costumes?
I have no idea what Dive Kick but I'm pretty sure it's yet another case of you missing the damn point.
 
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TheMysteriousGX

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Well he also had paypal block payments to him before along with other companies refusing to process payment.
Yeah, known Paypal thing. Like I said, he's got an itch.io page.
And there's the ones you said you'd found
I've very explicitly found zero and am actively accusing of lying about seeing more
Or you could
I don't have a problem with shorts, why would I ask?
And all can be played fine without DLC, they don't strangle a school kid character on screen unless you cough up money (yes a Mobile game really did do that_
Lmao, hilarious. Hey, does one game in a set doing a thing mean that you can accuse all games of a thing? Asking for the rape/coercion tag on DLsite.
And how many of them took the great word of Anita Sarkeesian to heart and made these oh so desirable games and didn't just go down the zynga / Candy Crush style route again?
Fuck if I know, she's only the pope in your world. I'm playing a few with great stories though. And a couple time wasters with meme ads or pretty jpegs.
I gave an answer. You not liking it because it's nuanced is your problem. Doesn't mean what I said wasn't an answer.
The fuck you did. It's a yes/no question: Should Marvel keep promoting an unhealthy body image? y/n?
Because gaining that type of body is dangerous, even with personal trainers and Marvel's supervision.
 
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Dwarvenhobble

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That wasn't what the backlash to fat Thor was about. People had no issue with Thor being fat, what they had an issue with was the movie mocking him for it even though he had gained weight due to depression. If you want to see people who hate the idea of Thor being fat on principle, check out the Kotaku in Action subreddit.
No some of the people complaining were pissed their favourite
Please stop being obtuse and actually respond to the arguments being made instead of strawmen.
I'm not being any more obtuse than arguing the game with acid spitting Ninja's and Cyborgs needs female characters toned down because of realism.


And if you have an issue where you can't play a game without sexy women, that's your issue that you clearly need help with.
Nah I manage that quite often. So why do you have a problem with the game having sexy women in it?



You've yet to provide a remotely good reason for it to stay.
OK because it was envisioned that way?
Because that's how the series has been?
Because there's no benefit to removing it?
Because seemingly it's people shouting loudest about how they're a problem that keep turning out to be actual problems and they're projecting their issues onto others rather than having to realise and confront themselves. They're trying to remove all temptation round them but it's proving that isn't solving anything at all
Because they're perfectly fine and why change it merely for the sake of change?


This argument is about as original as the idiots whining about Shariah Law over Jade and Skarlet's new outfits.
Weird to see some-one who seemingly is on the side of such a law dismissing it's critics.



I have no idea what Dive Kick but I'm pretty sure it's yet another case of you missing the damn point.
Dive Kick is a 2 button fighting game were it's distilled down to almost the most pure essence of what a fighting game is.
eye candy was gone