George Santos and the issue of political honesty

[Ag3ma]

George Santos: Who is the Republican congressman embroiled in controversy?

The congressman has in the past faced allegations of stealing from a disabled veteran, falsely claiming he was Jewish and lying about whether or not his mother died in 9/11. A political strategist tells Sky News why this is proof of the "Trump effect".

news.sky.com

I'm sure you're all aware of George Santos and the deeply concerning history that's emerged since his election to the US Congress. I believe that voters should have a right to accurate information about the person they vote for under a principle of informed consent. We all know that people, especially politicians, can be a bit slippery. However, I do not think it unfair to say that Santos appears to have gone well beyond even those modest norms.

We have to accept that wrong'uns will slip through and get elected, for any party and any ideology. The issue is what actions are taken when problems emerge. As many might note, had this been a regular job, he'd be in breach of contract and likely summarily fired. I would quite like politics to become more "professional". I understand that in democracy there has to be room for representation of opinion where politicians can say things with an unusual degree of freedom. However, I also think that extremes such as this require politicians to face accountability beyond waiting until the next election. If we cannot trust parties to do it, then there needs to be some mechanism to force a new election in that seat, such as public vote or an independent adjudicator with the ability to remove the politician from post.

 

[Thaluikhain]

However, I do not think it unfair to say that Santos appears to have gone well beyond even those modest norms.

Eh, looks more to me that the norms have changed a lot and he's just riding the wave.

 

[Seanchaidh]

However, I do not think it unfair to say that Santos appears to have gone well beyond even those modest norms.

he seems to be more shameless about the dishonesty and fakeness than is anywhere near typical; pathologically and pointlessly so-- even more than a younger Joe Biden, it seems. but in the ways that matter-- that is to say, his material impact on the lives of the people he represents-- he appears to be hardly atypical for servants of the capitalist class. when it comes to social murderers, it's not their professionalism I'm concerned with.

The issue is what actions are taken when problems emerge. As many might note, had this been a regular job, he'd be in breach of contract and likely summarily fired. I would quite like politics to become more "professional". I understand that in democracy there has to be room for representation of opinion where politicians can say things with an unusual degree of freedom. However, I also think that extremes such as this require politicians to face accountability beyond waiting until the next election. If we cannot trust parties to do it, then there needs to be some mechanism to force a new election in that seat, such as public vote or an independent adjudicator with the ability to remove the politician from post.

interestingly, a problem that democratic centralism solves quite handily. but less restrictive forms of party discipline could easily also be sufficient.

 

[Buyetyen]

Dude stole money from a dying service dog. He has no moral conscience and the dishonesty may very well be pathological. Either way, I will be satisfied with nothing less than this reprobate being frog marched out of office.

 

[Xprimentyl]

As many might note, had this been a regular job, he'd be in breach of contract and likely summarily fired.

I cannot, for the life of me, fathom why this isn't the case in Santos' situation. He lied on his resume; he lied to people's faces, and thus far has gotten but a stern finger-waving. If I applied for a job to only selfishly better my own life, but misrepresented my qualifications and potentially my intent for the position, I'd lose that job. This guy did that exactly, but is representing a multitude of people who ostensibly elected him based on his falsified credentials; how is that not hundreds of times worse befitting at least the same consequence?

 

[Ag3ma]

he seems to be more shameless about the dishonesty and fakeness

I would draw a distinction between policy and personal information. You get a job on the basis of your CV - your employer can then see what your competence is like and promote, leave or fire you accordingly. But if you told a pack of howlers on your CV and get caught, I don't think your employer need wait to the next annual appraisal.

Similarly, some light embroidering of one's CV with exaggeration is not unusual. Making stuff up completely out of nowhere like fake qualifications is beyond the pale.

Although very much at the lower end of mendacity in some circumstances, I also think one of the biggest indicators that the guy has serious problems is that he claimed his mother died on 9/11 for... why exactly? Attention and sympathy? He saw a major event going on and needed to be involved?

 

[SilentPony]

I watched Bill Maher's New Rules from last Friday. The dude is off the deep end with whataboutisms. His take on Santos? Its the liberals and Democrats fault. Damned Woke kids just wanting woke politics.

As to George, there is a very special pointy, spicy and burning place in hell for people who steal charity money from sick dogs and let the dogs die painfully of cancer. Reading on that story its sickening. The terms of collecting the charity money? You can't have contact with the Vet performing the surgery, you can't know where the clinic is, you can't go with the dog to the clinic, and they're not responsible for any ill medical outcomes. So there was no vet, no doctor, no clinic or surgery team. They were planning to take the dog to the pound to get euthanized, lie and say it was an accident during surgery and pocket the money. I'd call that premeditated animal abuse.

 

[Buyetyen]

As to George, there is a very special pointy, spicy and burning place in hell for people who steal charity money from sick dogs and let the dogs die painfully of cancer. Reading on that story its sickening. The terms of collecting the charity money? You can't have contact with the Vet performing the surgery, you can't know where the clinic is, you can't go with the dog to the clinic, and they're not responsible for any ill medical outcomes. So there was no vet, no doctor, no clinic or surgery team. They were planning to take the dog to the pound to get euthanized, lie and say it was an accident during surgery and pocket the money. I'd call that premeditated animal abuse.

Remember the car door decapitation scene in Daredevil season 1? I have revenge fantasies about doing that to animal abusers every now and then.

 

[Ag3ma]

As to George, there is a very special pointy, spicy and burning place in hell for people who steal charity money from sick dogs and let the dogs die painfully of cancer.

To be fair, it's one up on stealing charity money from humans and letting humans die painfully of cancer.

Although prior to his political career, he certainly appears to have been stealing money from humans - less clear on whether any of that was charity or led to cancer deaths. He was employed by what is believed to be a Ponzi scheme. Admittedly, no-one's proven he knew it was dodgy, but he was reasonably high up the pecking order to have a decent chance of knowing. And even if he didn't, he appears to have conducted himself with considerable dishonesty anyway. Just like he was a massive liar before and a massive liar after, because people like that do not change.

 

[Worgen]

I watched Bill Maher's New Rules from last Friday. The dude is off the deep end with whataboutisms. His take on Santos? Its the liberals and Democrats fault. Damned Woke kids just wanting woke politics.

Haven't trusted Bill Maher's opinion on anything since he came out as anti-vax back in the day.

 

[gorfias]

I cannot, for the life of me, fathom why this isn't the case in Santos' situation. He lied on his resume; he lied to people's faces, and thus far has gotten but a stern finger-waving. If I applied for a job to only selfishly better my own life, but misrepresented my qualifications and potentially my intent for the position, I'd lose that job. This guy did that exactly, but is representing a multitude of people who ostensibly elected him based on his falsified credentials; how is that not hundreds of times worse befitting at least the same consequence?

I hear that the square root of any organization of 25 workers or more will do 1/2 the work. You can get rid of a bad employee, spend thousands looking for a replacement, and end up with one just as bad as the one you just got rid of.

I'm sure a former boss of mine knew/strongly suspected that a guy that was in fact, doing the job (to a bare minimum) was in reality a valor stealing fraud and high school dropout that held that he was an honorably discharged military veteran, college grad and more when he was seeking the job. That boss came to strongly suspect none of it was real. But the job was getting done, so he did nothing about it.

 

[Casual Shinji]

I watched Bill Maher's New Rules from last Friday. The dude is off the deep end with whataboutisms. His take on Santos? Its the liberals and Democrats fault. Damned Woke kids just wanting woke politics.

Either you're some mental giant, or you just love sticking needles underneath your fingernails. Otherwise I don't know why you'd watch Bill Maher. Save your precious time for something more important, like practicing the Macarena.

 

[Ag3ma]

I hear that the square root of any organization of 25 workers or more will do 1/2 the work.

I strongly doubt that: it would mean in a company with 1000 workers, 10 workers are working ~100 times harder than the other 990. I think someone would notice that kind of disparity.

You can get rid of a bad employee, spend thousands looking for a replacement, and end up with one just as bad as the one you just got rid of.

Unfortunately, yes. But it's probably still better to get rid of them just for the chance you'll pick up someone better. What I have learnt from interviewing is that if you're not confident in any of the candidates but one of them might do, go back out to advert.

 

[Xprimentyl]

I hear that the square root of any organization of 25 workers or more will do 1/2 the work. You can get rid of a bad employee, spend thousands looking for a replacement, and end up with one just as bad as the one you just got rid of.

I'm sure a former boss of mine knew/strongly suspected that a guy that was in fact, doing the job (to a bare minimum) was in reality a valor stealing fraud and high school dropout that held that he was an honorably discharged military veteran, college grad and more when he was seeking the job. That boss came to strongly suspect none of it was real. But the job was getting done, so he did nothing about it.

There's a difference between suspecting someone of lying and knowing someone is lying... after they admit that they lied. And without further detail as to what job you were doing with the person in your anecdote, I'm going make a brash assumption and say it wasn't within the government as an elected official whose constituents were all misled by the lies.

 

[Buyetyen]

I hear that the square root of any organization of 25 workers or more will do 1/2 the work. You can get rid of a bad employee, spend thousands looking for a replacement, and end up with one just as bad as the one you just got rid of.

I'm sure a former boss of mine knew/strongly suspected that a guy that was in fact, doing the job (to a bare minimum) was in reality a valor stealing fraud and high school dropout that held that he was an honorably discharged military veteran, college grad and more when he was seeking the job. That boss came to strongly suspect none of it was real. But the job was getting done, so he did nothing about it.

Translation: Whatever it takes to hold onto that narrow majority in the House.

 

[SilentPony]

Haven't trusted Bill Maher's opinion on anything since he came out as anti-vax back in the day.

That really was a heel turn I didn't see coming. I always knew he was a selfish jerk, Im just surprised he sold out science and his country so his trashy standup tours didn't have to wear masks.

 

[Worgen]

That really was a heel turn I didn't see coming. I always knew he was a selfish jerk, Im just surprised he sold out science and his country so his trashy standup tours didn't have to wear masks.

Oh this wasn't even with covid, he started on being anti-vax back when it was going through celebrity circles with Jenny McCarthy, so he's been on that train since the ought's.

 

[gorfias]

I strongly doubt that: it would mean in a company with 1000 workers, 10 workers are working ~100 times harder than the other 990. I think someone would notice that kind of disparity.



Unfortunately, yes. But it's probably still better to get rid of them just for the chance you'll pick up someone better. What I have learnt from interviewing is that if you're not confident in any of the candidates but one of them might do, go back out to advert.

Isn't 10 the square root of 100? I can buy that. My personal record: I was on a team of around 10 and my all time ticket record: I was dealing with 20 while the entire rest of the team was doing 10. My wife is complaining of the same sort of thing in her organization. I told her it isn't her job to bring this to the attention of her manager but she can't help herself. In my case, I ended up in the hospital for a couple of months, home for a few months more. My absence was noticed as you mentioned above. My boss was taken aside and told if he can't motivate the team, they'd find someone else who could. The issue had to be mashed in his face to notice. More below.

There's a difference between suspecting someone of lying and knowing someone is lying... after they admit that they lied. And without further detail as to what job you were doing with the person in your anecdote, I'm going make a brash assumption and say it wasn't within the government as an elected official whose constituents were all misled by the lies.

I wrote above that sometimes a boss appears to need the problem jammed in his face. I think my boss in this example would have to do something were his bosses to say, "This guy is a fraud. Get rid of him or you're gone." Otherwise? Ignorance is bliss.

The public has an amazing ability to ignore things in a politician that is on their team. Worse than lying, Ted Kennedy, for instance, appears to have committed vehicular homicide. He appears to have been drunk driving, crashed into some water, walked off. The next day they found a dead girl in his car who had suffocated. He didn't do a day in prison and we re-elected repeatedly.

ITMT: More justice is more justice. Serial liars and criminals? Maybe some will pay for their transgressions. Wouldn't be a bad thing.

 

[Eacaraxe]

If we cannot trust parties to do it, then there needs to be some mechanism to force a new election in that seat, such as public vote or an independent adjudicator with the ability to remove the politician from post.

That's what primaries, recalls, intiatives, and referenda were supposed to be for. We've seen how well those worked out.

 

[SilentPony]

That's what primaries, recalls, intiatives, and referenda were supposed to be for. We've seen how well those worked out.

And it would also require the average voter to know about such measures, and care about the quality of their candidates. Which yeah, good luck with that. You couldn't get the average voter to agree today is Thursday.