Georgia and Russia on Brink of War

[Alex_P]

If your citizens are dying over a territorial conflict you have to step in.

A lot of them have Russian passports. But the only way in which you could really regard them as full-on "citizens" is if you consider the annexation of South Ossetia a foregone conclusion. That's not really a very neutral position to take on the matter.

-- Alex

 

[Unknower]

You want a link to where someone DIDN'T say something? How exactly would that work?

I wanted a link to something like "a numerous amount of Russian troops are invading South Ossetia and Abkhazia to make them part of new fresh USSR" or even "Russian President visited South Ossetian and Abkhazian governments to sign some papers that will enslave them". I obviously didn't want to get links on how internet media sources interpret previous Russia's actions in coflict because I get a lot of that stuff myself without any help.
English part of site pravda.ru differs greatly from Russian one. For example, I can't see articles like "I hoped my child will die fast: citizens that survived Tskhinvali talk", "EU is going to make "Kosovo vice versa" out of South Ossetia", "Georgian plan called Tskhinvali-2 was captured in Abkhazia" and "Georgian genocide of people in South Ossetia broke Europe apart".

...

...

If Georgia becomes intimidated by Russia, the fear is that soon Ukraine, the Baltics and even Central Asia will be next.

Georgia is already scared shitless, especially it's president. And I'm sure it's totaly right - people who think they can shell whole towns to the ground should fear.
Baltics chose to kiss Western asses, it's their call, no problem. Problem is that with kissing wrong asses goes Baltic's own history rewrited, especially WW 2 time interval. They take down all Soviet soldiers' monuments and cemeteries like those soldiers didn't save them from nazis. It's just fucking shame. Ukraine is heading the same way and it hurts me the most.

Perhaps you'd like another article on Pravda, such as "Estonia torments ethnic Russians with rotten food." Just so we all know that when Russia invades Estonia and sets up a new government, it is purely for humanitarian reasons.

After Tallinn's authorities ordered to dug up and remove old cemetery for Russian soldiers who died defending Estonia during WW 2 I sincerely hope that Russia will envade Estonia because people such as mentioned authorities had completely lost a touch with humanity.

Soviet Union didn't defend Estonia, they occupied it. Then Nazis occupied Estonia and then Soviets occupied it again. Soviet version of the account is that Estonia joined USSR willingly but that's like a man saying a woman was willing to have sex with him, not mentioning the fact that he held a knife on her throat during the act. Treaty in the beginning of WWII to which Estonia had to agree to allowed Soviet Union to have troops and bases inside Estonia and if Estonia wouldn't have agreed to join Soviet Union, the troops would have conquered the country. Not agreeing to that other treaty would have also led to a war, as we can see what happened to Finland when Finland didn't agree to a treaty Soviet Union proposed. Soviets staged a border incident and then attacked in an attempt to occupy *cough* "liberate" Finland. Soviet Union failed to conquer Finland, but Baltic countries probably couldn't have repelled Soviet Union due to different reasons so they accepted the
treaties.

Soviets then replaced the former government in elections where the people were allowed to vote only pro-Soviet candidates. After that Soviets proceeded to execute and send thousands of people to camps. Then came the Nazi occupation and holocaust and it's victims and after that Soviet reoccupation, which lead to more deaths and deportations.

In Estonians minds, Bronze Soldier of Tallin represented the Soviet occupation and the terror which it caused. You can't even really blame Estonians from being disrespectful of the dead, as they moved the statue and the remains of the soldiers to a proper military cemetery or gave the remains to the families of the soldiers. Besides, the city centre isn't a proper place for a cemetery.

EDIT: Question: did Pravda mention that South Ossetians are setting Georgian villages to flames? Probably not.

 

[Perticular Elk]

Its about oil not war. Russia has the monopoly on oil thats feeding Europe and a pipeline is being built in Georgia that will compete with Russia so they devised to bomb it in the "chaos of war". They planned the invasion the coincide with the Olympics.
The Georgian people actually like America and I literally shed a tear because America is in no position to help them militarily ( and there is no one in the world who would rather see the a US led Coalition take the fight to the heart the red fascist beast more so then me). These people have lived under Soviet tyranny and now they are oppressed again and their is nothing that the US or the Eurofags can or will do about it.
And there is a difference between the US invading a regime affiliated with anti-western pro-islamo-fascists and the Russian regime invading a western democracy. think of the Cold War (which never ended)

 

[Carbon016]

Its about oil not war. Russia has the monopoly on oil thats feeding Europe and a pipeline is being built in Georgia that will compete with Russia so they devised to bomb it in the "chaos of war". They planned the invasion the coincide with the Olympics.

This is propaganda and the only people that didn't see through it was the Drudge Report. If they wanted to blow up a pipeline they could do it - Iraqi insurgents do it all the time. This oil nonsense is pure conspiracy, with only grounding in the endless echo chamber of the Internet.

But calling the former Soviet regime "fascist" and Saddam's dictatorship affiliated with "islamofascists" (such a meaningless, talking point word) sort of disqualifies any of that anyway. I suggest you pick up a basic textbook on international relations.

 

[Perticular Elk]

Oil plays a vital role in this one way or the other. Their is no point in having "relations" with countries who have contradicting views of the world. Russian Leaders do not believe in a western style democracy as Saddam's Baathist party was totalitarian. They wish to spread their influence over oil and other countries same as us only their plans are conflict with ours. Like in the Cold War, Soviets (and modern Russian leaders) literally conquered countries and replaced their Govt with lap dogs to the Kremlin. In that era the Cominform or Council of Soviet leaders decide to push this to the ends of the earth and supported Communist coops in Africa South America, Asia( which was mostly Chinese Communist but I use them interchangebly and the Middle East. We saw this and backed opposing sides in the hopes of use influencing there Govt in the hopes of sowing a Democratic state or at least( and unfortunately most) allied regimes. Al-Queda and fundamentalist Muslim groups hope to accomplish a similar goal only under the guise of religion. They do not want peace, only domination and an advantage.

 

[Carbon016]

Countries disguise aggression based on control of resources under the guise of fighting the good fight? You are aware this is not a recent phenomenon? And that we're not squeaky clean from the whole "meddling in elections" thing either? Iran? Nicaragua? Failing that, nearly all of Latin America? Name a country that has good relations with the US today that hasn't had US money dumped into it by the truckload. This is how proxy states develop.

Their is no point in having "relations" with countries who have contradicting views of the world.

There is a point if you don't want to blow each other up with big explosive things dropped from planes.

 

[Perticular Elk]

I am not saying that all of our actions are validated but I am saying that these places would be better with our meddling. Are we wrong for giving money to the Contras would wanted a democracy for Nicaragua to fight against the Sandinista who wanted Soviet control. What would be better for Nicaraguans' in the long run: Soviet friends or Americans? I understand mutually assured destruction, but what about the leaders of Iran or other Islamic groups who stand a good chance of actually believing nuking Israel or the US would do the world good. A lot of countries like the ones in Eastern Europe like us because their people see us as a symbol for hope that people can have functional subservient Govts (for the most part nothing is perfect). I whole heartily believe that it is our duty to live out that ideal so that the average person on earth can see a horizon they can obtain guaranteed rights and have a say in Govt. That is what I am a proponent Of, call me naive but I am not frothing at the mouth. (Concerning proxy states: Would it be better to become a proxy state of US or Russian in the Long run?)