German Consumer Group Sues Valve

aelreth

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Dec 26, 2012
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If the EU legal system is in the business of severing contracts between valve and their customers on judicial whim, I think valve should sever all the contracts with all the EU users, denying them the ability to use their steam accounts from then on. Their sovereign decided to terminate their contracts after all.

You can't do business with people that change the rules on the fly, can you play a game with someone that creates and modifies house rules in mid play?

This is legal plunder. If Valve turns around and burns the German Or EU customers I will continue to support them.
 

Shikua

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Dec 7, 2010
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Here's what Valve should do, in my opinion. Make selling of games work on steam, but only under these terms:
-Price is 90% the full value of the game
-25% of the sale price goes to valve, 25% goes to the game creator/publisher.
-50% goes to the user.

I mean lets face it, you get shit value when you trade in physical media, and this would benefit everyone, while still keeping steam sales valid.
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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I'd love an ability to sell digital games, but lets be frank, you buy a ability to play the game, not the game itself, so you dont actually "own" anything.

Falterfire said:
But seriously? Used digital games still make no [email protected]#$%ing sense. Consumer rights are good and all, but used digital games are still nonsense.

If it was legal to resell a digital game, I could sell the same copy seventy three bajillion times using the magic of Ctrl+C, Ctrl+V.
No. You would sell your license to play this game, not the actual data, which means that you loose the ability to play it and he gains it.

P.S. god, so many people here dont even understand what the consumer group wants to achieve and imagine that you somehow can sell million of copies. you people dont deserve to pay less for games, because you dont seem to be able to use your brain anymore.

Shikua said:
Here's what Valve should do, in my opinion. Make selling of games work on steam, but only under these terms:
-Price is 90% the full value of the game
-25% of the sale price goes to valve, 25% goes to the game creator/publisher.
-50% goes to the user.

I mean lets face it, you get shit value when you trade in physical media, and this would benefit everyone, while still keeping steam sales valid.
I think we should make a law that when you sell a used car, only such terms can be used:
-Price is 90% the full value of the car
-25% of the sale price goes to company that you bought the car from orginally, 25% goes to the car manufacturer.
-50% goes to the person.

Ridiculous proposition is ridiculous.
i udnerstand having a, say, 1dollar charge per transfer for costs of server work to do it and whatnot, but beside that, nope. just like you got charges for formal papers when selling any other object.
 

nymz

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Apr 1, 2010
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Why don't they introduce some kind of digital wallet, like steam credits. And if you wanted to "sell your game" you could, which means the game license is picked from your library, and in turn you are given a small amount of steam credits, which can be used to pay, or partially pay for other games or even in-game items.
 

Krantos

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On the one hand, I think Valve needs a little bit of a push. There are things the company does that I'm not altogether fond of.

On the other hand, this really isn't what I would have chosen to attack them on.

Now the whole, "agree to our terms of service or lose access to ALL YOUR GAMES! BWAHAHAHAHA!" that one, I would like to see them called to terms on.
 

nymz

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Apr 1, 2010
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They already have this... It's called Steam Wallet.

They have a Steam Market in beta, which will be used to sell games, dota 2 items and tf2 items.

Not to mention there's already a trading feature in place which allows people to trade their games for other people's games. I personally got Scribblenauts in the EU before its release by doing this.
Somehow it feels like you found an exploit! But can I get real/fictional money from steam market if I so choose, or is that in the near future?
 

Strazdas

Robots will replace your job
May 28, 2011
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nymz said:
Why don't they introduce some kind of digital wallet, like steam credits. And if you wanted to "sell your game" you could, which means the game license is picked from your library, and in turn you are given a small amount of steam credits, which can be used to pay, or partially pay for other games or even in-game items.
That is the thing the consumergroup is fighting for and stema refuses to give. i think that is the best solution, but its one they dont want to give us.

A Smooth Criminal said:
Nope. though Steam is going to allow the reselling of games soon via the Steam market... Players are already able to trade games, but trading them after you've tied them to your account is just starting to push it.

Honestly the only cripe I have with Steam is the return policy. But that's not really entirely Valve's fault.

I think these people who are sueing Valve just want to be able to burn the games to CDs and resell them to gain profit from the games, AKA pirating.
Actually, there was a EU supreme court ruling stating that digital games must be re-sellable. or rather that anyone buyign digitally has a right to resell their games.
And you are completely wrong, as many others, who think those people want to pirate. they already can do that without sueing valve. what they want is to be able to sell their license to play the game. you sell the game you can no longer play it, somone else can.
 
Aug 11, 2009
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albino boo said:
NiceJobBreakingItHero said:
albino boo said:
The EULA was written by someone who charges £700-£1000 an hour and they more about EU law than you do. They are not bypassing national law so much as using the single market rules and the internationally accepted principal that parties to a contract can choose what jurisdiction they use.
If you do business in Germany you are bound by German law and German courts. Despite what companies try to tell you there is nothing to circumvent that.
Apart from the small point the valve Europe in based in the UK. So you might be in Germany but you are doing business in the UK which under the single market rules is perfectly permissible
You can't choose the jurisdiction in a contract if one party is a consumer (§32 ZPO) and according to a decision from the european court of justice (C-190/11) it is irrelevant where the company is based as long as it aimed for doing business in another country.
 

Elithraradril

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Oct 30, 2010
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Braedan said:
doesn't it say that it requires Steam to play?
Putting a label doesn't make it legal you know. If I put "use at your own risk" sign on a product, it won't stand up in court if somebody gets hurt using it.
 

lapan

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Jan 23, 2009
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R.Nevermore said:
If you don't like what steam has to offer....

SUE THEM!

I mean seriously, if you want a hard copy to do with it as you please, don't buy a licence, buy a hard copy from a brick and mortar shop.

EDIT: but even then, you'll have to deal with some even more draconian DRM...
The problem with that is that a lot of PC games nowadays only come out bound to Steam, even if you buy them in retail.
 

Braedan

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Sep 14, 2010
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Elithraradril said:
Braedan said:
doesn't it say that it requires Steam to play?
Putting a label doesn't make it legal you know. If I put "use at your own risk" sign on a product, it won't stand up in court if somebody gets hurt using it.
I couldn't comment on legality, but I'm pretty sure children are taught to read bottles so they don't accidentally drink bleach. If kids can do it, the adults buying video games should be able to read as well, no? Unless we should just mindlessly consume and hope we don't accidentally eat rat poison.
If a product does something that you don't want it to, you don't buy it. If a product requires something you don't know about (ie. Steam), you should figure out what it is before you buy it.
 

Ziame

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Mar 29, 2011
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Zakarath said:
Why the fuck would anyone buy a used game from someone anyway? If someone's looking to procure a game while not giving their money to the people who made it, why wouldn't they just pirate it?
This.


I don't care about reselling. The bigger problem is that Steam CAN cut me off my account worth x hundred Euros. The bigger problem is that I can't access my games without Internet connection (and before "yadda offline mode yadda" - with first-time install you are fucked. Even with CD/DVD.)

The bigger issue is why sell the games in stores in the first place, if you STILL DON'T OWN THE DAMN COPY.

Steam can have a fee yadda yadda
Well, uh... why would Steam settle for 1 euro, when they could get 10?? Dudes...? Why would anyone do that?




Reselling games may very well mean the end of Steam service. While I agree that both Steam and Origin could be more computer friendly, we can't really demand from them, that they supply EVERY SINGLE SERVICE to guys who will buy the games worth 50? for 1?. I mean, come on!


Retarded prices of games, mp3s, movies on the other hand... that's what we should fight. Not game reselling.