"Get back to your own countries!" Says illiterate woman on tram O_o

Vanguard_Ex

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MaxwellEdison said:
Vanguard_Ex said:
I don't mean a right as in a politically or legally granted right, I mean a right as a normal person just trying to go about their daily life as usual. If you would never use the privilege of being horrendous to someone, why complain about the lack of it?

That's all good apart from the fact that the very thing we're discussing here is not related to physical harm. We're talking mental harm here. I think this kind of thing goes a little past simply offending people. Offending someone is a crude joke or mocking their hairstyle, however the word isn't really strong enough to describe being racially abused on a public tram carriage. You're right, maybe the government delves too much into private lives at times, and I wouldn't go as far as to dispute whether or not arresting her would make a real difference to her behaviour. But justice must be seen to be done.
Snipped previous comments for simplicity.
No, I don't think you have that either. People will be crazy assholes, and we need to be able to get over that. And again, that argument doesn't make sense - there are a lot of things that I think should not be jailable offenses that I don't partake in and I consider terrible. "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

And I *seriously* doubt that this caused mental harm to anyone. Someone moron spouting abuse is not traumatic - note the first complaint lodged by another rider was "Watch your language, my kid's here." Justice has not been done. No one got harmed, and no one has been taught a lesson. Justice shouldn't even enter into this discussion.
Thanks.
I know, morons and creeps are unavoidable in society but we here tend to have what is often referred to as a 'nanny state'. I won't get into that because it's probably neither here nor there.
People keep bringing up that quote but in this particular instance it unfortunately fades a bit as it is illegal to incite racial hatred in public in Britain (I know you're aware of this).

I didn't say traumatic, it doesn't have to be that much of an infliction on someone, the same way a punch to the face may not be crippling but is still an assault. When I say 'Justice must be seen to be done', I don't mean I feel that justice is being done. It's more of a term to dictate how punishment for a wrongdoing has to be seen to be done otherwise people will be grossly dissatisfied. Although you don't know that anyone there has been affected by it.

I think we should just drop this, as much as I'd love to discuss it it just seems to be going in circles as we swat each other's points aside. Really cannot be arsed. Feel free to have another rebuttal.
 

Phasmal

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Jun 10, 2011
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Jeezy Chreezy.
That sort of thing just makes us all look bad.

I dont get people protecting her with the `free speech, innit?` argument, she was clearly trying to start something, which was stupid of her when she's got her kid right there. Who wants to have a punchup in front of their child?

I had a perfect Russell Howard clip in mind but I couldnt find it :(
(The one where he goes "BLAAAAAAARG! I WAS BORN HERE DONTCHAKNOW?!")
 

MaxwellEdison

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Vanguard_Ex said:
MaxwellEdison said:
Snipped previous comments for simplicity.
No, I don't think you have that either. People will be crazy assholes, and we need to be able to get over that. And again, that argument doesn't make sense - there are a lot of things that I think should not be jailable offenses that I don't partake in and I consider terrible. "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

And I *seriously* doubt that this caused mental harm to anyone. Someone moron spouting abuse is not traumatic - note the first complaint lodged by another rider was "Watch your language, my kid's here." Justice has not been done. No one got harmed, and no one has been taught a lesson. Justice shouldn't even enter into this discussion.
Thanks.
I know, morons and creeps are unavoidable in society but we here tend to have what is often referred to as a 'nanny state'. I won't get into that because it's probably neither here nor there.
People keep bringing up that quote but in this particular instance it unfortunately fades a bit as it is illegal to incite racial hatred in public in Britain (I know you're aware of this).

I didn't say traumatic, it doesn't have to be that much of an infliction on someone, the same way a punch to the face may not be crippling but is still an assault. When I say 'Justice must be seen to be done', I don't mean I feel that justice is being done. It's more of a term to dictate how punishment for a wrongdoing has to be seen to be done otherwise people will be grossly dissatisfied. Although you don't know that anyone there has been affected by it.

I think we should just drop this, as much as I'd love to discuss it it just seems to be going in circles as we swat each other's points aside. Really cannot be arsed. Feel free to have another rebuttal.
Nah, if you want to end the discussion, that's fine. I'd just like to clarify that my use of the quote was to sum the sentiment I feel the law should have, and wasn't meant to convince. Thanks for not being a dick about the discussion as so many often are!
 

Vanguard_Ex

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MaxwellEdison said:
Nah, if you want to end the discussion, that's fine. I'd just like to clarify that my use of the quote was to sum the sentiment I feel the law should have, and wasn't meant to convince. Thanks for not being a dick about the discussion as so many often are!
I'm trying to stop myself getting carried away when it comes to discussing stuff, glad to see it's working! Yeah, admittedly it's always interesting to get a different perspective on how individuals feel the law should be.
 

internetzealot1

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Aug 11, 2009
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I'm sorry, but that was just to funny. The accent, the kid vacantly staring on her lap, the train being completely full of people who wanted her to shut up...

On a slightly related note, does anyone else think that a situation like this could quickly be defused by someone suddenly dropping their pants?
 

Phasmal

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Jun 10, 2011
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internetzealot1 said:
I'm sorry, but that was just to funny. The accent, the kid vacantly staring on her lap, the train being completely full of people who wanted her to shut up...

On a slightly related note, does anyone else think that a situation like this could quickly be defused by someone suddenly dropping their pants?
Only if they waved their bum in her face.
 

Reincarnatedwolfgod

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what a racist *****.
it's scary to think people like this breed

Daystar Clarion said:
mega48man said:
ugh....really? i thought the common british person didn't give a shit about trivial stuff like race, gender, and nationality, especially a young(ish) woman. was she drunk? i didn't see anything like that in the reports, but in america, people go on tangents like that in public when they're drunk (and i have mel gibson to use as prime evidence).

and i just LOVE how useful youtube and the internet has become. first we were using it to catch abusive cops from occupy demonstrations, and now we're catching idiots who make fools out of themselves! (well we've caught bill o'riley time and time again, but we haven't arrested/killed that idiot yet)
From what I can gather, my generation is split into two groups.

The people who see the world around them, the culture, the issues, and form an opinion based on fairness and objectivity.

And then there's people like the woman in the video.

People who inherited their ignorant, racist and bigotted opinions from their equally ignorant, racist and bigotted parents, who have never formed their own opinion and can barely construct a sentence without sounding like they've only just learned the damn language.


These kind of people.
i think i just lost a few brain cells just hearing him talk.

this video sums up how i feel for the most part
just exclude the god part and the points
 

Shanecooper

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I know this is going to reflect poorly on me, but...
This is why I think people should have to earn the right to free speach.
 
Dec 14, 2009
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Reincarnatedwolfgod said:
what a racist *****.
it's scary to think people like this breed

Daystar Clarion said:
mega48man said:
ugh....really? i thought the common british person didn't give a shit about trivial stuff like race, gender, and nationality, especially a young(ish) woman. was she drunk? i didn't see anything like that in the reports, but in america, people go on tangents like that in public when they're drunk (and i have mel gibson to use as prime evidence).

and i just LOVE how useful youtube and the internet has become. first we were using it to catch abusive cops from occupy demonstrations, and now we're catching idiots who make fools out of themselves! (well we've caught bill o'riley time and time again, but we haven't arrested/killed that idiot yet)
From what I can gather, my generation is split into two groups.

The people who see the world around them, the culture, the issues, and form an opinion based on fairness and objectivity.

And then there's people like the woman in the video.

People who inherited their ignorant, racist and bigotted opinions from their equally ignorant, racist and bigotted parents, who have never formed their own opinion and can barely construct a sentence without sounding like they've only just learned the damn language.


These kind of people.
i think i just lost a few brain cells just hearing him talk.

this video sums up how i feel for the most part

It must be all those Muslamic Ray Guns he keeps talking about :D

Also, Billy Madison was one of my favourite movies when I was a kid, and I love that quote.
 

Robert Ewing

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The problem is that with Britain both being a multicultural country, and a massive immigration problem, it's difficult for these sort of people to wrap their heads around non-native honest citizens that just want to work and live in peace on the isles, and the non-native dishonest immigrants that gain access to the country illegally, and then abuse the bureaucratic systems such as benefits, council housing, asylum seekers scheme etc.

It's very hard to tell which one is which. Because the people gaining access to the country illegally know EVERYTHING before they come here. They know how to exploit every loophole, dodge every obstacle and penetrate the bureaucracy... They wouldn't chose Britain if our benefit schemes, housing schemes, immigration schemes where completely bullet proof and fraud proof.

Because we Britain's are so prone to giving people a chance the second that they give off a sob story for fear of violating a human right or offending them. The people who enter the country illegally, and exploit everything are usually better off than the people who work honest lives. There was a story ages ago about a family that came here from a middle eastern country, I forget where... But basically they had accumulated £3,000,000 of benefit money. They had illegally gained access to the country, went on benefits, got a council house, had 13 children, and claimed benefits for each of them, among other things. That's £3,000,000 tax payers pounds going on a family that have never worked a day in the country in their lives, injustice in plain sight.

And because there are so many people that aren't from Britain in Britain, the people like the crazy woman on the train has no clear concept on who is the villain, so she lashes out on everyone, falling into a stereotype. Yes, there are a lot of really nasty immigrants out there sucking the country dry, but there are a lot more immigrants that really do contribute to the country as a normal citizen would. But because of the way things are, it's almost always viable to be an illegal immigrant in Britain than a legitimate one, if you know how to exploit the system.

It's a sad state of affairs, one that is hurting Britain deeply as we struggle to find a balance with the whole immigration thing... It's sad that people actually sink this low to just start chanting racism at people not 1 foot away from her... And in front of her child ¬¬
 

Bobbity

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We actually had someone like this on a tram in my city once. I hopped on with a friend, and there was a guy up the front screaming abuse at the Jewish man sitting next to him. "It's a good thing you don't believe in hell, because that's where you're fucking going!" was one of the many, delightful quotes I have from that experience. He got louder and louder as more people started yelling at him, until the tram driver thankfully threw him off.

Tirunus said:
Freedom of speech is the right to say what you wish, freedom of speech is not screaming obscenities at random black people on a crowded tram.
There's not much else to say - you nailed it.
 

Comando96

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May 26, 2009
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I'm as White as you can get.
I'm as English as you can get.

I'd fucking rip into her saying that this country is like it is because of spoiled uneducated cunts like her ruining it and making a gap in the market allowing for foreigners to come in and work hard and make a life here... as people let them... not because they smuggle their way in to the country.

I'd happily exchange half the population of my town for Eastern block immigrants as they're a lot nicer and a lot more hard working than people like that "woman" or child who never grew up...
Oh, and 1/4 of my town is already Eastern Block anyways :p

------------------------

There is one main problem with Immigration in the UK and that is the people skilled people we let in, the more crowded the country gets, and its just a shame we can't shoot the dumb shites born here who disgrace the term British.
 

AngelBlackChaos

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zehydra said:
Woodsey said:
Volf99 said:
Vanguard_Ex said:
She doesn't have an interesting opinion. She has a rampantly racist opinion and thinks that countless people who have put more into my country than she ever will should leave based on their skin colour. End of.

Edit: And before they crawl out the woodwork, no, she is not protected by freedom of speech. She deserved to be arrested and the police have every justification to punish her.
hmm... your right, we should punish people who express an unpopular opinion! I mean why let people have the freedom to express themselves?! Outrageous! *sarcasm*

Get serious man, are you really supporting someone being CRIMINALLY charged because they expressed an opinion? Really? I mean really? lol, you know who else punishes people when they express an unpopular opinion? The CCP when people say things that are deemed "criminal" to say.
zehydra said:
Vanguard_Ex said:
She doesn't have an interesting opinion. She has a rampantly racist opinion and thinks that countless people who have put more into my country than she ever will should leave based on their skin colour. End of.

Edit: And before they crawl out the woodwork, no, she is not protected by freedom of speech. She deserved to be arrested and the police have every justification to punish her.
oh and out of the woodwork they came...

I don't know if it's illegal to be racist in Britain, but it doesn't really make sense to arrest somebody because they say something which offends somebody in a public setting, since that would be a slippery slope with no well-defined end to it.

I do think that the public transportation system should be allowed to kick her off the train though.
If she was arrested, it would have (should have) been because she was inciting racial hatred, not just because she'd expressed a racist opinion.

No one's going to arrest you for saying "there's too many Arabs!", or "blacks are all violent".
I'm not sure I understand the difference. Can you incite racial hatred without saying racial opinions?
you can say "I hate black people" all the time. But she was targeting specific people in the tram, Spewing racial hatred toward them. Instead of doing a general, I hate how blacks have taken over the country, she was telling a woman to go back to her's and that she wasnt british and the like.

Targeting specific people for harrassment and racial slurs are what she could get arrested for, especially when people tried to get her to kindly stop.
 

Turigamot

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Feb 13, 2011
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DressedInRags said:
Vanguard_Ex said:
She doesn't have an interesting opinion. She has a rampantly racist opinion and thinks that countless people who have put more into my country than she ever will should leave based on their skin colour. End of.

Edit: And before they crawl out the woodwork, no, she is not protected by freedom of speech. She deserved to be arrested and the police have every justification to punish her.
I just want to support this opinion. Freedom of speech does not guarantee you the freedom to harrass others with racist opinions. I remember when that guy got arrested for spamming a facebook profile and a memorial website, the former set up in memory of one teenager who I think comitted suicide and the latter in memory of Jade Goody. This guy proceeded to deliberately try to hurl slurs at both sites, and was eventually arrested.

I remember, even the Escapist's own Any Chalk said something ludicrous and alarmist along the lines of "this is troubling for UK residents who enjoy freedom of speech".

No, no it isn't. If he had said "I do not consider the deaths of either individual a tragedy and, in fact, I believe that their deaths were highly entertaining" or set up his own platform for which to express this view, THAT would be protected by freedom of speech. Constantly harassing the families of the victims with mindless insults is not, by any means protected.

I went totally off-topic there. What I'm saying is that there's no way this woman can defend what she was doing under free speech. Her opinions? Yeah. Her actions? hell no.

Freedom of Speech means that all speech, regardless of the content, deserves protection. This includes mindless insults. At least, for Americans, this holds true.

What one says should not be a crime, unless the words can cause immediate danger, such as yeling "FIRE!" in a crowded theater, when no fire exists.
 

BristolBerserker

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Aug 3, 2011
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I really hate people like her, making us Brits look racist. I feel sorry for the child because his mother is going to push her beliefs onto the child and then he (I think it's a boy) is going to hold those same views. As far as I'm concerned if you live here, work hard, obey the law, do right by your fellow man (or woman) and love queen and country then you are British no matter where you were born. Also liking tea is essential.