Ghost in the Shell is "international" story
- Thread starter MatParker116
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A fucking cop out considering that GITS is a pretty dystopian cyber-punk future, where most of the world is less unified not more...
I get the feeling the producer has never seen the source material or is outright lying. GitS was always a very Japan-centric story, having been conceived during the Bubble Period and whenever international entities cropped up they're always about what they want from Japan (like one story about the Tachikoma AI creator trying to flee for another country to profit off his work, while one of the most hotly-desired technologies Japan has is the secret to the radiation scrubbers). It looks to me like the production team is trying to avoid any responsibility and are nearing hostility with the fanbase. This will not end well.
It's also in a Japan that has a downright massive immigrant and refugee population, with the task force under the Major having two Americans (though from which of the 3 US successor states is never stated) and one other foreigner.KyuubiNoKitsune-Hime said:
Or it could be the source material being used is either the animated movie or the television series, both of which make the argument a perfectly valid one.Aiddon said:
That really only depends on the quality of the movie at this point. The anime fandom as a whole seems to be of the opinion that a good movie is good enough even if it diverts from the source material (case in point: Edge of Tomorrow). Though then again the complaints about this movie, of which not even a trailer has yet been made, have pretty much come from anyone but the anime community and fans of the IP.
Hell, be it the Western anime community or Japan the stance on the reaction to the movie so far has been confusion. All we know is the casting yet some people in the US are acting like it's the new Ghostbusters movie in terms of open disdain for the source material.
Er, the reaction from the anime community and fans of GitS has been overwhelmingly negative. And for good reason ranging from tepid talent on the project, to whitewashing, to the hilarious rumor of them apparently trying to digitally yellow-face the cast. It was doomed from day one and was better off left alone.Zontar said:
The first one I've seen show up in discussion, but the later two I've seen, to the point of exclusivity, coming from people who are neither part of the anime community or fans of GitS. Or at least, given what is has been said by these people, the conclusion of least assumptions tends to be this, since most don't tent to demonstrate any knowledge of either, particularly those who think the Major being Japanese is something that's part of her character (since any fan will tell you we don't even know if shes Japanese at all).Aiddon said:
And that's before even beginning to touch upon the fact that you need a marketable lead for these type of movies given the budget, and at the moment the only markets that has well known Japanese actresses is Japan's domestic one where no one outside Japan would know who the actress is (and that's before even beginning to touch on the fact casting any other Asian national would make this go from "Japan doesn't care" to "Japan is upset" given the current state of relations between the different East Asian nation-states and how they much their ethnicity is tied to their identity).
Honestly while it's quite unfortunate that this became an issue, let's not pretend the reason it's an issue has to do with wrongdoing by those making the movie. Because the real issue at the heart of it is the idea that Hollywood for some reason has an obligation to act in away that every single other movie industry on the world level does not, a way which works to its active determent all to appease racists who care so much about skin colour that they don't care if a movie flops so long as the lead checks off their diversity quota.
I'm pretty sure Ghost in the Shell has more name value. And if you've looked at past adaptations, that's the only thing they tend to care about when making these movies.altnameJag said:
EDIT: I wrote "games," but meant "movies. I was looking at the "latest content" box, and, well, my mind wandered as I was typing.
I don't find that to be true at all.Zontar said:
I'm a fan of the IP and part of the "anime community"-- which we are insofar as we're a huge number of people who watch this genre of entertainment that generally don't talk to or organise each other-- and so is virtually everyone else I've heard complain about and/or simply vow to avoid the GitS film.
Personally, I feel that casting Scarjo as Kusanagi is out and out racism.
White casting should have been limited to the Caucasian members of her team-- YES, even if the film is Hollywood and most or all of its dialogue is spoken in English.
As a result of what I deem to be racist casting, I won't be watching.
Can anyone actually point out a time where negative pre-release reactions from a portion of the potential audience actually caused changes for the better in the final product? I don't mean test screenings, because that's pretty much the entire movie shown for the explicit purpose of testing audience response. I mean just press interviews, photos, stuff seen before they've even finished filming.
I don't mean to sound incredulous, but I can't think of a single time it's happened. All I've ever seen from this obsessive over-analysis and overthinking is either wasted effort or a film pre-judged to be bad, deserving or not. If someone can remind me of when it did some good, that'd be nice.
Until then, I'll wait to see the movie, and keep comfort in knowing that, good or bad, it doesn't do anything to damage how much I'm a fan of the show.
I don't mean to sound incredulous, but I can't think of a single time it's happened. All I've ever seen from this obsessive over-analysis and overthinking is either wasted effort or a film pre-judged to be bad, deserving or not. If someone can remind me of when it did some good, that'd be nice.
Until then, I'll wait to see the movie, and keep comfort in knowing that, good or bad, it doesn't do anything to damage how much I'm a fan of the show.
It's racist when movie producers cast someone based on race. It's not racism when we pick what movies to watch based on race.Candidus said:
Shouldn't we judge her performance rather than her race? I don't know, she might play the part right, she might not.
Wow... You must be able to see that you've removed the latter action from the context of its cause in order to portray it as being the same- that is, a racist act. Please tell me that this was just a bit of mean-spirited plebeian sophistry intended to trip me up and force me to waste time addressing it, and that you don't actually believe you made a point.Yopaz said:
We should judge a movie adaptation of a thing based on its loyalty to that thing in form and its adherence to the core themes of that thing.
GitS is not an international or universal story. It's a Japanese one. Casting Scarjo is an unwelcome departure from the form and themes of GitS, and also hella-fucken-racist.
No, it's a business one. There is no Asian actress with a proven box office track record and while there is one with the potential to break out next year, it's Dreamworks job to take as little risk as possible and Scarlett is the biggest female draw in box office history. Unfortunately, that is the reality it's completely unfair but in no way motivated by race, just money.Candidus said:
I think that any job should go to the person best suited for it. If an actor can perform the role or not should be priority number one when casting. A bad actor can ruin a lot. I'm not trying to make a point, I am simply stating a fact when it comes to movies.Candidus said:
Another point is that when you plan a big budget movie you want names you know attract the audience. Sadly that creates situations where minorities are underrepresented even in roles they would be perfect for. Call it racism all you want, but this is business.
I genuinely care about quality. It probably wasn't the best idea to use her considering fans of the source material and the fact that whitewashing is a hot topic right now.
I have tried to address your leading questions so will you reply to one of my leading question? Do you put race over quality? Do you think companies should be more concerned over race than profits? Do you think idealism will keep them earning money? If you could reply to at least one that would be fine.
In large part because people don't cast them in movies, though.MatParker116 said:
The two are not mutually exclusive, though.MatParker116 said:
Don't bring an open mind to a fanboy argumentKolby Jack said:
OT; I like the idea of it being an international movie. From a larger standpoint, most movies are about promoting one country over another. It's all one big world, and movies that embrace internationalism, are starting to show that we are one world (and should act like it).