#GiveCaptainAmericaABoyfriend. How long was I asleep for?

[WolfThomas]

I don't know. It could work, it might not work. As a parable against discrimination, a black Captain America would probably have more weight behind it, but that's obviously not something you can retcon in.

Google Isiah Bradley. The Black Captain America. Already exists. In the second world war while trying to recreate Cap's Serum they tested it on a bunch of black soldiers rather unethically. One of the survivors of that program stole a copy of Captain America's uniform near the end of the war. He saved the day but ended up being imprisoned for several years.

His grandson is the Superhero Patriot.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Snip

Months if not years? Then do that. Hell, it seems like a better way to spend time with his character than "Do you think the A stands for France" It isn't? Why the hell not? Because you have an issue with Cap liking the dick and not with Bucky being older? I need more reasoning. Then add. Don't take away his attraction to women, make him heteroflexable. People don't WANT to do it, but don't act like they COULD not do it.

Implausible? No. People can do it. They just don't want to

The most basic fundamentals of writing isn't enough for you? What more reasoning could you possibly need? Please NEVER write comic books or anything with any continuity whatsoever, because you don't seem to understand the concept of consistency, character history and development. Either that or you do and you just don't care about the character of Captain America or how stories and the characters in them ar competently written at all and are only interested in pushing for what you think rather than being convinced no matter how obvious I or anyone makes it that you are wrong, I haven't figured out which. Making Captain America gay or a Hydra agent or anything else like that isn't in any way true to his character or his history, and that is bad no matter how little or big the change is.

Implausible as to the character's creation, history, and development. A writer can writer whatever the hell they want, it doesn't mean they SHOULD or that it automatically makes sense just because they wrote it. They could turn Superman into just an ordinary guy who turns out to have always been an ordinary guy, but he's also the son of Lex Luthor, or make Batman a total moronic wimp whose superheroics are entirely overblown, turn the Red Skull into a thou shalt not kill bleeding heart charity superhero, etc. not just in adaptions but everything but it wouldn't make SENSE given the entire history and origin of the characters and making Captain America gay is the same. A decent writer strives to maintain consistency with the characters they write, whether they created it or not and develop them on a path that evolves organically from the character's origins and history, a good writer strives to do that and make a good story out of the characters being written consistently playing off of each other. You keep bringing up Bucky being older as though that's even remotely like making Captain America gay, it's not. The former is evolving out of the character out of the situations the character is put in given reasoning for it that is plausible within the universe, the latter is running entirely contrary to one of the core things about the character. Writers can turn Captain America into Private Swastika too, and they basically have, it doesn't make it make any SENSE. Writers can kill off characters deader than dead in a hundred different ways and then use some magical or technological mumbo jumbo to bring them back, they can take the powers of super beings away dozens of times and just arbitrarily give them back, and and countless other things, but when they throw out the fundamental things that make a character that character especially without any development the result cannot be anything but nonsensical.

It's called character detrailment/assassination, look it up.

 

[elvor0]

Phasma being an LGBT character in The Force Awakens is something no one would have known by watching the movie had Disney not told us, and why that will continue in the next two numbered Star Wars movies as well.

Wait, how is Phasma an LGBT character? I tried to find something, but there's just people excited over her being female. Which unless the definition of LGBT got expanded since I last checked, doesn't check out.

There was one thread about her being trans because of the armour, but I'm not buying that just because she doesn't have a tit plate.

 

[Zontar]

Phasma being an LGBT character in The Force Awakens is something no one would have known by watching the movie had Disney not told us, and why that will continue in the next two numbered Star Wars movies as well.

Wait, how is Phasma an LGBT character? I tried to find something, but there's just people excited over her being female. Which unless the definition of LGBT got expanded since I last checked, doesn't check out.

There was one thread about her being trans because of the armour, but I'm not buying that just because she doesn't have a tit plate.

According to Disney she's trans... or gay... or something. Even I'm not sure what she is, only that last year Disney declared she was an LGBT character and for a few days internet sites couldn't stop talking about it before a new shiny thing caught their attention.

It's a very much "told, not shown" thing.

 

[Wrex Brogan]

...why just the one boyfriend? Let Cap have ALL the boyfriends! #Polyamoryisalwaysanoption!

 

[Parasondox]

...why just the one boyfriend? Let Cap have ALL the boyfriends! #Polyamoryisalwaysanoption!

Because he's a one man, man.

 

[CyanCat47_v1legacy]

if marvel ever decides to buy back the x-men the definitive answer will officially be fassbender's magneto. since it is currently impossible i would go with Black Panther, seing as how he is the sexiest man in the MCU thus far

 

[Overhead]

Snip

Months if not years? Then do that. Hell, it seems like a better way to spend time with his character than "Do you think the A stands for France" It isn't? Why the hell not? Because you have an issue with Cap liking the dick and not with Bucky being older? I need more reasoning. Then add. Don't take away his attraction to women, make him heteroflexable. People don't WANT to do it, but don't act like they COULD not do it.

Implausible? No. People can do it. They just don't want to

The most basic fundamentals of writing isn't enough for you? What more reasoning could you possibly need? Please NEVER write comic books or anything with any continuity whatsoever, because you don't seem to understand the concept of consistency, character history and development. Either that or you do and you just don't care about the character of Captain America or how stories and the characters in them ar competently written at all and are only interested in pushing for what you think rather than being convinced no matter how obvious I or anyone makes it that you are wrong, I haven't figured out which. Making Captain America gay or a Hydra agent or anything else like that isn't in any way true to his character or his history, and that is bad no matter how little or big the change is.

Implausible as to the character's creation, history, and development. A writer can writer whatever the hell they want, it doesn't mean they SHOULD or that it automatically makes sense just because they wrote it. They could turn Superman into just an ordinary guy who turns out to have always been an ordinary guy, but he's also the son of Lex Luthor, or make Batman a total moronic wimp whose superheroics are entirely overblown, turn the Red Skull into a thou shalt not kill bleeding heart charity superhero, etc. not just in adaptions but everything but it wouldn't make SENSE given the entire history and origin of the characters and making Captain America gay is the same. A decent writer strives to maintain consistency with the characters they write, whether they created it or not and develop them on a path that evolves organically from the character's origins and history, a good writer strives to do that and make a good story out of the characters being written consistently playing off of each other. You keep bringing up Bucky being older as though that's even remotely like making Captain America gay, it's not. The former is evolving out of the character out of the situations the character is put in given reasoning for it that is plausible within the universe, the latter is running entirely contrary to one of the core things about the character. Writers can turn Captain America into Private Swastika too, and they basically have, it doesn't make it make any SENSE. Writers can kill off characters deader than dead in a hundred different ways and then use some magical or technological mumbo jumbo to bring them back, they can take the powers of super beings away dozens of times and just arbitrarily give them back, and and countless other things, but when they throw out the fundamental things that make a character that character especially without any development the result cannot be anything but nonsensical.

It's called character detrailment/assassination, look it up.

The core of Captain America's concept isn't "kisses women as opposed to men". It's not a character assassination because that isn't a fundamental part of what makes him who he is.

The Hydra thing is obviously just mind control/reality warping/whatever that will turn out to be caused by something that will be countered with an appropriate amount of smashing people in the fact with a shield. If you even for a second think they are seriously turning Cap into a nazi rather than this being the result of some kind of reality/mind warping scheme as set up by Red Skull at the end of the Standoff event, you know very very little about the comics you hold such strong opinions about and are in no place to made assessments.

If they were actually going to turn Cap into a Nazi, THAT would be a character assassination. A core part of his character is that he's anti-fascist and stands up for freedom. Obviously they're not though.

Being gay (or rather bi, as there's no claim that they'd overright his straight romances) however isn't really here nor there. He can be a super-soldier who fights for freedom and stands for what's best in humanity regardless of what gender the people he kisses are. It's not character assassination because it doesn't effect what defines the character.

Moreover, a problem with a lot of characters is that they're so old. They're relics of the time they were created. They weren't going to make openly gay characters in the 40's, 50's, 60's etc. While it's possible to create gay characters now and and gay characters are made, people don't care as much about Northstar or Wiccan as they do the old and famous characters. So we're in a situation where either all of the big famous characters are overwhelmingly straight white dudes due to the prejudices of the time they were made or you have to make changes to classic characters to make them representative of real society.

 

[immortalfrieza]

Snip

Making Captain America gay IS character assassination, if that term applies to anything. Captain America has been in relationships with women, two in particular, Peggy Carter in pre freeze stories and her relative Sharon Carter, in fact being in relationships with Captain America is a fundamental part of THOSE characters too. Being straight is a long and consistently established and fundamental part of Captain America's character just like his loyalty to the American Dream, you're just dismissing it as irrelevant to avoid admitting that making Captain America as in Steve Rodgers gay would be character assassination. The fact Captain America or any other character for that matter was made decades ago long before gays or blacks or any number of other groups has absolutely NOTHING to do with the validity of the character assassination. Bisexuality is also a complete cop out, people don't just wake up and decide they are attracted to their own gender any more than a gay person just wakes up and decides to be completely straight, changes in sexual orientation is something that is developed over years in the real world and it should be the same in fiction.

The fact that they are going to backpedal on this whole "Captain America is a Hydra agent" storyline doesn't mean it isn't happening nor does it prevent it from being character assassination. Besides, the writers have stated that Captain America being a deep cover Hydra agent all along is the REAL Steve Rogers acting entirely under his own free will. They are no doubt all lying out their rears but for now this character assassination IS completely canon for the moment.

 

[elvor0]

Phasma being an LGBT character in The Force Awakens is something no one would have known by watching the movie had Disney not told us, and why that will continue in the next two numbered Star Wars movies as well.

Wait, how is Phasma an LGBT character? I tried to find something, but there's just people excited over her being female. Which unless the definition of LGBT got expanded since I last checked, doesn't check out.

There was one thread about her being trans because of the armour, but I'm not buying that just because she doesn't have a tit plate.

According to Disney she's trans... or gay... or something. Even I'm not sure what she is, only that last year Disney declared she was an LGBT character and for a few days internet sites couldn't stop talking about it before a new shiny thing caught their attention.

It's a very much "told, not shown" thing.

Abrams said was open to putting LGBT characters in, and Moff Mors was praised for being canon-onnicaly a lesbian, can't find anything on Phasma.

 

[happyninja42]

Bisexuality is also a complete cop out, people don't just wake up and decide they are attracted to their own gender

No, but they can, and do suppress those attractions, especially if they grow up in a culture/era that is highly homophobic. A good example of this would be the youtuber Rantasmo, who has several videos on his channel, where he openly talks about how he genuinely thought he was straight for a long time, and didn't really realize it for himself until years later. So it's entirely possible for someone to be gay, but think they are straight through self delusion, or simply just closeting it for years because of stigma. Or being bisexual, and again not really understanding that, or closeting it for years due to stigma.

Now, that being said, I do agree this is obviously a publicity stunt to get sales. The Hydra thing, and the gay thing. But I personally don't care. Nothing in comic books is permanent, they change with every new writer. It's best to just consider comics an ongoing conglomerate of "What If" alternate universes (sometimes literally when it comes to comics), and just ignore any plot lines you don't like. Don't buy those issues. Don't like it? I'm sure there is another version of the hero with his own timeline that doesn't include the aspect you don't like. Just like people who might be made at Superior Spiderman for killing Parker, and having Doc Oc being in his place. You don't have to buy that particular line. Go buy Amazing, or Stupendous, or Flamboyant, or whatever other adjectives they've attached to him at this point.

So a new writer decided to shake things up a bit and make a new variant on an old character. Won't be the first time, won't be the last. And invariably, it's going to be piss someone off, no matter what they change.

 

[EternallyBored]

Phasma being an LGBT character in The Force Awakens is something no one would have known by watching the movie had Disney not told us, and why that will continue in the next two numbered Star Wars movies as well.

Wait, how is Phasma an LGBT character? I tried to find something, but there's just people excited over her being female. Which unless the definition of LGBT got expanded since I last checked, doesn't check out.

There was one thread about her being trans because of the armour, but I'm not buying that just because she doesn't have a tit plate.

According to Disney she's trans... or gay... or something. Even I'm not sure what she is, only that last year Disney declared she was an LGBT character and for a few days internet sites couldn't stop talking about it before a new shiny thing caught their attention.

It's a very much "told, not shown" thing.

Like Elvor said, I think you are getting Abrams statements on being open to their being gay characters in Star Wars confused with something to do with Phasma.

As far as I can find Disney hasn't said shit about Phasma being gay, as far as I can find, they've said almost nothing about her at all, so I would really like to know where you are getting this from, as it sounds like you might have read a rumor on a fan site or misinterpreted the Abrams interview, which did cause some discussion for a couple days, but at no point was Phasma mentioned in any way.

The closest thing I can find is that they almost cast a man for the role, but that has nothing to do with the in-universe character, and while it seems to have gotten a few articles from entertainment sites praising them for casting a female in the role, I could not find any mention of her being gay or trans, or anything official about her sexuality at all.

 

[DefunctTheory]

Spoiler

Phasma being an LGBT character in The Force Awakens is something no one would have known by watching the movie had Disney not told us, and why that will continue in the next two numbered Star Wars movies as well.

Wait, how is Phasma an LGBT character? I tried to find something, but there's just people excited over her being female. Which unless the definition of LGBT got expanded since I last checked, doesn't check out.

There was one thread about her being trans because of the armour, but I'm not buying that just because she doesn't have a tit plate.

According to Disney she's trans... or gay... or something. Even I'm not sure what she is, only that last year Disney declared she was an LGBT character and for a few days internet sites couldn't stop talking about it before a new shiny thing caught their attention.

It's a very much "told, not shown" thing.

I'm with everyone else - I'm going to call horse shit. I can't find any source even hinting at her being gay. In fact, the only articles I can find on the subject are ones that point out that Star Wars' first AND second gay characters are all in the books.

That being said, there is a lot of lesbian fan fiction about Phasma.

 

[happyninja42]

I'm with everyone else - I'm going to call horse shit. I can't find any source even hinting at her being gay. In fact, the only articles I can find on the subject are ones that point out that Star Wars' first AND second gay characters are all in the books.

That being said, there is a lot of lesbian fan fiction about Phasma.

Well of course there's a lot of fan fiction about her. xD The actress is tall and stunningly gorgeous, the fiction almost writes itself! xD

 

[Overhead]

Snip

Making Captain America gay IS character assassination, if that term applies to anything. Captain America has been in relationships with women, two in particular, Peggy Carter in pre freeze stories and her relative Sharon Carter, in fact being in relationships with Captain America is a fundamental part of THOSE characters too. Being straight is a long and consistently established and fundamental part of Captain America's character just like his loyalty to the American Dream, you're just dismissing it as irrelevant to avoid admitting that making Captain America as in Steve Rodgers gay would be character assassination. The fact Captain America or any other character for that matter was made decades ago long before gays or blacks or any number of other groups has absolutely NOTHING to do with the validity of the character assassination. Bisexuality is also a complete cop out, people don't just wake up and decide they are attracted to their own gender any more than a gay person just wakes up and decides to be completely straight, changes in sexual orientation is something that is developed over years in the real world and it should be the same in fiction.

The fact that they are going to backpedal on this whole "Captain America is a Hydra agent" storyline doesn't mean it isn't happening nor does it prevent it from being character assassination. Besides, the writers have stated that Captain America being a deep cover Hydra agent all along is the REAL Steve Rogers acting entirely under his own free will. They are no doubt all lying out their rears but for now this character assassination IS completely canon for the moment.

This is hilarious.

Putting Cap in a gay relationship with someone, making him bisexual, does not invalidate or remove from continuity previous heterosexual relationships. They would still exist and still have happened.

It would change absolutely nothing fundamental and so your complaints are invalid.

The fact that you think the writers are back-pedalling over Captain America being a Hydra Agent shows just how little you know about comic books and how ill qualified you are to criticise. They're not back-pedalling because turning Captain America into a Hydra Agent is always going to be a short term story that is resolved with Captain America returning back to normal - you know, exactly like the last time it happened a few years ago in Captain America: Reborn where Captain America was controlled by the Red Skull and then a few issues later broke free of the control and punched Red Skull in the face. The plan from the very start is to return him to normal after a few issues. That's how these things almost always works in comics.

"Superhero is somehow made evil, Superhero breaks free of control, superhero punches super-villain in the face and all is right in the world" is a pretty basic and common story. it can be done good or badly depending on the writer. So far the Captain America one has been done pretty alright, with strong hints about how the manipulation has occured, good writing, good characterisation, etc.

Also the writers ruled out several possibilities (not an imposter or clone, etc) and said it was the real Steve Rogers. As explained, this leaves several possibilities and they've already in comics - prior to and in the same issue as the revelation so not as some damage control - largely laid out the basis of how it was done. Red Skull with some combination of the telepathy, the reality warping sentient cosmic cube Kobik and possible time travel have screwed with Steve's mind/past.

You obviously don't know comics in general and you obviously don't know this comic in particular. On what basis can you possibly think you're qualified to offer an informed opinion when you're wrong about the basic details of the storyline?

 

[happyninja42]

So general question about this Captain Hydra thing....

Does it appear to be a genuine thing? Or is it a "Haha! You THOUGHT I was loyal to Hydra! But I was fooling you the whole time, to learn the location of your secret base! Eat Justice Fist foul knave!" kind of thing?

I mean I get that it's going to go back to normal of course, I just don't know if the plotline has established that he is somehow being manipulated or whatever, or if Steve is simply trying to be cunning for once.

 

[DefunctTheory]

So general question about this Captain Hydra thing....

Does it appear to be a genuine thing? Or is it a "Haha! You THOUGHT I was loyal to Hydra! But I was fooling you the whole time, to learn the location of your secret base! Eat Justice Fist foul knave!" kind of thing?

I mean I get that it's going to go back to normal of course, I just don't know if the plotline has established that he is somehow being manipulated or whatever, or if Steve is simply trying to be cunning for once.

From what I can gather, the only people who know Captain America is a Hydra agent are the reader and Captain America. Even Red Skull and Hydra as a whole has no idea.

So the only people who could be fooled by him are us, and while there is something meta-pleasing about it, like those old Superman comic covers... no. Just... no. That's the only move I can think of at the moment that cheaper and dumber then Captain America being a Hydra agent in the first place.

That being said, it is one possible ass pull option when they panic and change it back.

 

[MiskWisk]

Look, I'm sure we could spend a lot of time discussing this. However, the best thing to do would be to get into the heads of the main supporters for this. In order to aid in this endeavour, I am going to link to a video that I feel fully explains this phenomenon in its entirety.

 

[Dreph]

In fact, the only articles I can find on the subject are ones that point out that Star Wars' first AND second gay characters are all in the books.

That being said, there is a lot of lesbian fan fiction about Phasma.

Was there a canonically gay character in star wars before Juhani in Kotor? I've always thought she was the first one, but I could be completely wrong on that.