Given the recent flops of attempts at reviving JRP. Who is to blame for disgracing JRPGs?

gyrobot_v1legacy

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With Yahtzees review of I am Setsuna and the merely mediocre reviews of SO5. It is clearly obvious that big name JRPG devs are no longer able to crank out quality titles like it used to. With the last push basically shitting their pants while Niche JRPG companies is backed by vocal fandoms who do not judge so harshly as professional reviewers.

So now the proverbial drought is over but the damage is done. We need to blame someone for this.

Who do you blame for ruining the name of JRPGs. My nomination is Compile Heart. The whipping boy of reviewers everywjere. They were the only choice we had from 2011-2014 when people want to have a taste of Japanese culture and first impressions are everything
 

Saelune

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Most people really like I am Setsuna.

Also Pok?mon is a JRPG, but I think people tend to forget that.

If anyone "ruined" JRPGs though, it would be Square Enix. They were the Kings of JRPGs, and Final Fantasy is to JRPGs as Call of Duty is to FPS. Some say that continues with their declining quality, but I like CoD, so whatever.

Dragon Quest still seems good though, probably cause its stayed consistent more than FF, even though it is also a Square Enix series.
 

DefunctTheory

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Uh... pretty sure JRPGs are doing just fine. They continue to breed and frolic in the handheld market with reckless abandon, many of them well loved.

Also pretty sure that I am Setsuna is doing fairly well, Yahtzee review aside. Personally he's put me off of it (At least at the 40 dollar mark), but most don't hing their gaming experiences on his say.

Saelune said:
If anyone "ruined" JRPGs though, it would be Square Enix.
Square hasn't killed the JRPG, but they sure as shit gave it a go.
 

gyrobot_v1legacy

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Saelune said:
Most people really like I am Setsuna.

Also Pok?mon is a JRPG, but I think people tend to forget that.

If anyone "ruined" JRPGs though, it would be Square Enix. They were the Kings of JRPGs, and Final Fantasy is to JRPGs as Call of Duty is to FPS. Some say that continues with their declining quality, but I like CoD, so whatever.

Dragon Quest still seems good though, probably cause its stayed consistent more than FF, even though it is also a Square Enix series.
The problem is they domt bother localizing the games. It takes a lot of begging to get it localizes
 

Saelune

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AccursedTheory said:
Uh... pretty sure JRPGs are doing just fine. They continue to breed and frolic in the handheld market with reckless abandon, many of them well loved.

Also pretty sure that I am Setsuna is doing fairly well, Yahtzee review aside. Personally he's put me off of it (At least at the 40 dollar mark), but most don't hing their gaming experiences on his say.

Saelune said:
If anyone "ruined" JRPGs though, it would be Square Enix.
Square hasn't killed the JRPG, but they sure as shit gave it a go.
I said ruined and in quotes, not killed. I don't think JRPGs are killed. I think people just want RPGs to be a specific way, and don't like the new ways they tend to be.

gyrobot said:
Saelune said:
Most people really like I am Setsuna.

Also Pok?mon is a JRPG, but I think people tend to forget that.

If anyone "ruined" JRPGs though, it would be Square Enix. They were the Kings of JRPGs, and Final Fantasy is to JRPGs as Call of Duty is to FPS. Some say that continues with their declining quality, but I like CoD, so whatever.

Dragon Quest still seems good though, probably cause its stayed consistent more than FF, even though it is also a Square Enix series.
The problem is they domt bother localizing the games. It takes a lot of begging to get it localizes
If Dragon Quest Monsters would be consistently sold here, Id love it more than Pok?mon. Hell, Id play them in Japanese if the 3DS wasn't region locked...
 

FalloutJack

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It's funny, but every time someone says something is dead, it's not. Can we all agree that there's no such thing as a fatal stroke in gaming now?
 

EternallyBored

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Star ocean has been kind of mediocre since Star Ocean 3, so like the last 16 years or so, and I am Setsuna getting middling reviews doesn't have anything to do with people's impression of JRPGs, the game tried to compare itself to chrono trigger, and even without nostalgia goggles, I am Setsuna, is a pale imitation of Chrono Trigger, it earns its lukewarm, but still somewhat positive reception. Not sure why the hell you even bring up Yahtzee's review of the game, he's always disliked Pretty much every JRPG he's reviewed, he's the last person you go to for a serious take on the general attitude towards the genre.

SMT, Persona, BD, Xenosaga, and a number of other JRPGs are still received well by critics and make solid sales for what they are. JRPGS have been declining in relevance and popularity since the end of the 90s, the flaws and stagnation of the genre was setting in long before compile hearts came along, they aren't a cause of anything.

The decline is obvious, it would be better to ask why we have seen a sudden resurgence of the genre in the last couple years, which I would largely attribute to Steam and other digital platforms making it profitable to circumvent traditional physical copies, and the success of reselling old titles as digital rereleases.
 

DefunctTheory

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Saelune said:
I said ruined and in quotes, not killed. I don't think JRPGs are killed. I think people just want RPGs to be a specific way, and don't like the new ways they tend to be.
More of a supporting statement then an attempt to argue. My apologies.
 

Dreiko_v1legacy

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Huh? Disgracing? What? Jrpgs are awesome lol. You just have personal grudge aginst Compa dude. Just because people like current Jrpgs doesn't mean they're less critical, just that...they like what Jrpg are. They like them for the exact reasons the haters hate them for. It's a matter of different tastes in gaming.


To base ANYTHING on the vocal jrpg hater Yatzee, treating his opinion as more valid than fans of the genre, him being someone who never like any of them from the beginning, is bizzare and evidence of your huge bias.



Bravely Second, 7th Dragon, Grand Kingdom, Odin Sphere Leifthrasir, Yoru No Nai Kuni, Trails of Cold Steel, Project x Zone 2, Persona 5, Caligula, FFXV, Ray Gigant, Shiren 2, MeiQ

Jut a couple of new or upcoming glorious jrpgs which have nothing about them approaches a state of disgrace. Not that one game company sucking even COULD just ruin a whole genre. Superman 64 doesn't make Arkhm City suck by existing >.>.

Jrpg are great, their fans happy, those who never like em still don't. There's no issue.
 

Fox12

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Youichi Wada. He ruined Square Enix.

That said, JRPG's have made a comeback. Atlus and From have more then made up for Square, and now that Square fired Wada they may be turning things around. Japan went from making terrible game to easily outpacing us. Japan's back baby. In a big, big way.
 

Tony2077

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i enjoy the compile hearts games i own the neptunia series and spinoffs being on top long live nep-nep
 

mardocOz

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Dreiko said:
Huh? Disgracing? What? Jrpgs are awesome lol. You just have personal grudge aginst Compa dude. Just because people like current Jrpgs doesn't mean they're less critical, just that...they like what Jrpg are. They like them for the exact reasons the haters hate them for. It's a matter of different tastes in gaming.

To base ANYTHING on the vocal jrpg hater Yatzee, treating his opinion as more valid than fans of the genre, him being someone who never like any of them from the beginning, is bizzare and evidence of your huge bias.

Bravely Second, 7th Dragon, Grand Kingdom, Odin Sphere Leifthrasir, Yoru No Nai Kuni, Trails of Cold Steel, Project x Zone 2, Persona 5, Caligula, FFXV, Ray Gigant, Shiren 2, MeiQ

Jut a couple of new or upcoming glorious jrpgs which have nothing about them approaches a state of disgrace. Not that one game company sucking even COULD just ruin a whole genre. Superman 64 doesn't make Arkhm City suck by existing >.>.

Jrpg are great, their fans happy, those who never like em still don't. There's no issue.
I was going to post a list of reasons I fundamentally disagree that JRPGs are being "disgraced" but then I saw this post, which pretty much summed it up for me.

I'm going to throw extra weight behind Persona (obviously given the avatar), Ni No Kuni and the Bravely Default/Second games as being shining beacons of what the genre is and disprove any indication that the genre needing reviving.
 

wings012

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Don't know about ruining the genre only recently, I thought the genre has been wallowing around in the ground for a long time already.

This doesn't apply to just JRPGs but I loathe attempts to so called 'revive' it with a rehash of an outdated battle system. Calling it old school or classic. This is bloody lazy.

I do wish the genre would make more headway onto the PC, since I've given up on consoles and the genre seems to hang out there a lot. Compile Heart stuff I can do with or without(After beating RB1 and getting halfway through RB2 and FFF, I think I've seen enough really). Still waiting on Nippon Ichi to get to Disgaea 3 as far as ports go. They did just release Phantom Brave so I hope they will get to the rest of their library.

Would give my left testicle(or not) to see Gust games on PC. Especially the recent PS3/4/Vita Ateliers.
 

deadish

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IMHO, the biggest problem with JRPGs is their combat system.

For the longest time, it has been turn-based which works very well for a team of characters.

Starting from FFXII, combat-wise it has been downhill. Real-time + controlling a group of characters = clusterfuck.

Going back to turn-based combat probably isn't an option for a AAA title.

JRPGs are still alive though. In the form of "indie" games, porting and distribution of old obscure JRPGs to platforms like Steam and the Final Fantasy MMOs.

My 2c.
 

Wrex Brogan

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...Yahtzee isn't a reviewer, he's a critic. He's a very funny critic, but his videos are more focused on shitting on things (even things he likes) rather than an indepth review of all the games elements. Just pointin' that out, at least.

And... honestly, outside Square-Enix trying desperately to get anyone to give a shit about Final Fantasy XIII by releasing a half-dozen games under it's weird, hyper-complicated story and unlikable fuckhead characters, JRPGs have been... well, doing fine. Hell, even SE's other game series like Bravely Default are quite popular, and the Tales series hasn't slowed down in forever (though it's hard as fuck keeping track of their names, good lord) so it's... yeah, not a dying genre at all? It hasn't even had any attempts at 'reviving' it, all the JRPG developers have just been doing their shit for decades without fail.

Plus, like, Sun and Moon are coming out soon. It's hard as hell to say JRPGs are failing when there's a new Pokemon game just around the corner that's going to sell like fucking hotcakes.

deadish said:
IMHO, the biggest problem with JRPGs is their combat system.

For the longest time, it has been turn-based which works very well for a team of characters.

Starting from FFXII, combat-wise it has been downhill. Real-time + controlling a group of characters = clusterfuck.

Going back to turn-based combat probably isn't an option for a AAA title.

JRPGs are still alive though. In the form of "indie" games, porting and distribution of old obscure JRPGs to platforms like Steam and the Final Fantasy MMOs.

My 2c.
I mean, while the combat systems for some JRPGs have been pretty fucked up, I feel it wasn't FFXII that started the problem - hell, it was literally Dragon Age: Origins combat system, just with Quickenings and horribly overpowered melee characters instead of horribly overpowered mages and drinking poltices. UI was a little clunky but overall it wasn't that out of place from many Western-style combat systems.

It's just... when they started over-complicating the systems, that's when shit got weird. X and XIII are good examples of this, since in X there was all that active-time switching or whatever it was, and XIII had the whole 're-arrange your entire class composition on the fly and oh also you can't change party-lead in battle and if they die you're fucked' deal. XII did change the system to the Real-time active command deal, but it didn't feel... over-the-top? Just run of the mill, really.

...Granted, 'run of the mill' probably isn't the best selling point either, and it definitely could've been ironed out a bit more (good god are the AI partners dumb), butit worked well enough.
 

Autumnflame

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i think its more the pull between staying on tradition like Dragon quest where the games are all essentially the same,

or Final fantasy who seeks to innovate and bring new things

which leads to the endless,

" they changed it so now it sucks" and " its the same so it sucks" crowds fighting over what is better.

along with tastes and expectations changing too many go for visuals over story,

or rely on super complicated mechanics that require you to spend 2 week researching to not have a case where you are screwd end game and must restart.
 

Bobular

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I blame modern graphics. To me what set a lot of JRPGs (and western RPGs)apart from other games was the world they were set in, they had huge worlds that you could walk through and talk to the people, travel by car or boat or airship. These days they seem to be a lot more focused in there design, Final Fantasy XIII takes the prize for most linear corridors but the only complaint I had about FFX was the lack of an over world. I believe its just not worth it to devs to build these big worlds like they used to when graphics cost are so high. I guess the expectation for voiced characters also lowers the amount of random minor characters you get these days as well, but to be fair you still get a lot of games that don't voice minor characters.

I also blame the change in combat systems, I miss the old style turn based with flashy moves, these days a lot of time you just see guys standing next to each other for a bit, then bash with sword, then maybe charge an attack a bit and bash differently with sword with the occasional supper move that pauses the real time combat whilst you watch.
 

Xerosch

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I don't think it's a 'who' more than a 'what'.

See, there's a crucial part that's often been overlooked: Voice acting. Remember how most of the games that are considered the genre defining JRPGs don't feature spoken dialogues? At the end of the PS1/start of PS2 the era the medium evolved to incorporate more multimedia aspects than ever before.
This included completely voiced stories which took away how you'd pronounce each character's voices in your head.

Take Final Fantasy X as an example: If you'd normally emphasise with Tidus as someone coming from a different place and not fitting in, his voice actor doesn't leave room for your own interpretation. This takes away from echoing things you might have experienced yourself.

Also, consider how a bad voice cast can influence your immersion. Where you used to have music as a narrator you now think about how the voice doesn't fit.

Not that there is anything to say against voice acting in video games. But it definitly takes away if you can't afford an experienced voice cast (and even they struggle with the writing on occasion).
 

Saelune

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Oh, another thing that people forget...is how vague JRPG is.

Dark Souls is a JRPG.
 

EyeReaper

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Two flops = dying genre now? I now understand all the Nintendoomed threads.

Also, I don't get what you're assuming with Compile Heart. Not only were they definitely not the only jrpgs out there (I get you're trying to exaggerate or whatever, but Persona 4: GOlden, aka "the greatest jrpg and potentially just game" came out in those years.) but in the internet age anyone who wanted to dip their toes in "True, good" jrpgs could just download an emulator. Boom, Chrono Trigger, FF7, whatever. (Note: definitely not approving of emulators.)