Good Riddance, Fred Phelps: 5 Pivotal Moments For LGBTs In Comics

Drizzitdude

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I would like to say we shouldn't be celebrating the death of a person, but the guy was an asshole, I was happy when he was gone because this guy was just all sorts of terrible.
 

RossaLincoln

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MinionJoe said:
RossaLincoln said:
The failure, as I note in the article, is that gay rights are expanding rapidly and very soon, gay marriage will be the law of all 50 states.
Ah! My apologies. I misread it as a "failed legacy" when the legacy (ie WBC) shows every intention of continuing their activities.

I've always suspected that WBC was never really about curbing anyone's rights. They're just about pushing buttons until someone retaliates and can sued. It's why so many of them are lawyers. As an added bonus, being classified as a "church" means they don't have to pay any taxes on any monetary judgements that they win.
Yeah, to clarify, that failure I speak of *is* his legacy.
 

Silverfox99

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Is the world a better place with him gone? Yes. My problem with articles like this is the fact that being a bigot to a bigot doesn't make you any less of a bigot then the bigot you are being a bigot to.
 

TaboriHK

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AzrealMaximillion said:
RossaLincoln said:
Alright I'm calling this out.

I'm not going to say I like Fred Phelps here, but there's a line here and literally laughing/celebrating the death of anyone is pretty immature in my books. I expect this kind of stuff from a Gawker media outlet.

Yes, Phelps was a huge knob when it came to being a massively homophobic prick, but you've just fed the Westboro Baptist Church the attention they crave. These are people that picket funerals for media attention but you just gave it up for free. This is a group of people who don't even have the guts to protest near the people they oppose, why give them the time of day and muck up the accomplishments of LGBT moments of any media by association?
If they craved attention for this, they would have held a funeral. I think you can count the people who will be mourning his death on one hand, and that includes his family. If you're sensitive to that, more power to you. But as he was a person who masterminded attacking the families of dead soldiers AT their funerals, I have no problem with anyone calling him out for exactly what he is - a hateful dead bigot.
 

RossaLincoln

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Silverfox99 said:
Is the world a better place with him gone? Yes. My problem with articles like this is the fact that being a bigot to a bigot doesn't make you any less of a bigot then the bigot you are being a bigot to.
When you make bigotry so broad as to include any hatred/intolerance/whatever of anyone or anything, bigotry stops being an inherently bad thing. Quite honestly, we should be bigots to bigots, because doing otherwise might make them feel as if their views are accepted when they aren't and shouldn't be.
 

AzrealMaximillion

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TaboriHK said:
I have no problem with anyone calling him out for exactly what he is - a hateful dead bigot.
There's a difference between calling someone out and celebrating their death. A big difference. Phelps didn't even kill anyone or advocate violence. He was a nuisance. Nothing more.

RossaLincoln said:
I'm celebrating the fact that his hateful legacy failed. Though, and I swear I don't mean to offend, I have no problem considering people who aren't bigots morally superior to people who are, nor do I think it's in bad taste to comment on the legacy of hateful bigots by pointing out how they failed, and hilariously so.
Celebrating human death is still an immense tasteless thing to do. It would have served the accomplishments of LGBT moments in comics if you hadn't mentioned Phelps at all.

Or if you had focused an article specifically on him it would have been better for dialogue.

Here's a fun fact. Fred Phelps was lawyers during the Jim Crow era, the era where black people could be lynched for looking at a white person in a certain way. He was also one of the only lawyers who'd fight for justice on the side of Black people in the Jim Crow era.

In the South.


I think the dialogue of how a man who was one of the extremely few white lawyers representing black people in a fight for civil rights goes to becoming one of the biggest homophobic voices would be less crass.


My beef isn't with you calling his homophobia out. I despise all discrimination, but I also find it disappointing that its apparently OK to celebrate someone being dead alongside great achievements of a group of people who've been discriminated.

It's like going, "Hey guys Mel Gibson just died of cancer! Isn't that awesome? Now to celebrate let's take a gander at the accomplishments of Jewish filmmakers!"
 

Silverfox99

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LifeCharacter said:
Silverfox99 said:
Is the world a better place with him gone? Yes. My problem with articles like this is the fact that being a bigot to a bigot doesn't make you any less of a bigot then the bigot you are being a bigot to.
When you make bigotry so broad as to include any hatred/intolerance/whatever of anyone or anything, bigotry stops being an inherently bad thing. Quite honestly, we should be bigots to bigots, because doing otherwise might make them feel as if their views are accepted when they aren't and shouldn't be.
The meaning of bigotry is being intolerant of others ideas or beliefs that differs from your own. There is no other qualification and there shouldn't be. When right or wrong gets put into the equation it creates a situation where bigotry can be justified. The justification then leads to excesses of the hateful behavior. This is exactly what the LGBT community has been fighting against. Many of those people resistant to gay rights believe they are correct and right. Since everyone has a different opinions and ideas the only way to stop bigotry is having the meaning be broad.

This does not mean that you agree with them. It does mean that you don't return the hate and intolerance back at them. When you are hateful and a bigot to a bigot you are only reenforcing the hate in that person. You can not agree with them and still not be hateful and intolerant.
 

martyrdrebel27

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Barbas said:
Oh, I don't know about that...once again, people are up in arms and the Westboro Baptist Church seems to be getting the publicity it craves. I read that Phelps used to be a civil rights lawyer, representing non-white residents of Kansas in discrimination cases. You can proclaim that part of his life to be a diamond in the muck if you wish to, but that only makes it stand out more.

Did he change his mind again before he died? Maybe. I also read that his relatives who left the church were denied contact with him, so I doubt I'll ever know, but there is always the possibility.
i didn't know that, and it only further proves a theory i've had for awhile... what if Fred Phelps was the greatest, most helpfully successful troll of all time? What if he saw the injustice in America towards the gay community and decided to change it in an extremely subversive way... sacrifice himself to make the opponents of gay rights looks like extremist psychopaths.

he might have known he'd go down in history hated, but didn't care because he knew that by coming off so absurdly outlandish, it would crush any hope that the anti-gay movement would be taken seriously?
 

Kenjitsuka

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A nice informative article on the subject, thanks.

But this bit:
"for a Superman/Batman team up to get a hell of a lot more romantic. Sadly, that's never going to happen,"

Why is it sad? These characters where just never intended to be gay, so ... ?
They where created, born one could call it, straight. IMHO it's just the way things are fore these two.
That doesn't mean there can be, and maybe should be, more LBGT characters in comics.

There's also not a ton of non white characters in most ancient comics, yet are you also going to call it sad that Clark Kent never will be black? It's sad that there are few non white heroes out there, that doesn't mean the existing ones should be changed all of a sudden.
 

RossaLincoln

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Kenjitsuka said:
A nice informative article on the subject, thanks.

But this bit:
"for a Superman/Batman team up to get a hell of a lot more romantic. Sadly, that's never going to happen,"

Why is it sad? These characters where just never intended to be gay, so ... ?
They where created, born one could call it, straight. IMHO it's just the way things are fore these two.
That doesn't mean there can be, and maybe should be, more LBGT characters in comics.
Assume my tongue was planted firmly in cheek, and also that this turn of phrase is often assumed to be shorthand for "sadly for [people in question]".
 

Czann

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The guy may have been despicable, and he was, but to actually celebrate someone's death doesn't make you any better than him.
 

Sunrider

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Czann said:
The guy may have been despicable, and he was, but to actually celebrate someone's death doesn't make you any better than him.
Yes, celebrating the demise of one of the biggest hate mongers of our time is surely the same as picketing the funeral of hundreds of grieving families and persecuting people for their sexuality.

You know what? I'll just be a despicable person then. I don't mind. I'm happy he's dead, and I hope everyone who shares his beliefs will die too. Good riddance.
 

Czann

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Sunrider84 said:
Czann said:
The guy may have been despicable, and he was, but to actually celebrate someone's death doesn't make you any better than him.
Yes, celebrating the demise of one of the biggest hate mongers of our time is surely the same as picketing the funeral of hundreds of grieving families and persecuting people for their sexuality.

You know what? I'll just be a despicable person then. I don't mind. I'm happy he's dead, and I hope everyone who shares his beliefs will die too. Good riddance.
We can go ahead and kill every single human on Earth then. That would surely, no irony here, solve all our problems.

Except that pesky death thing.
 

Sunrider

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Czann said:
Sunrider84 said:
Czann said:
The guy may have been despicable, and he was, but to actually celebrate someone's death doesn't make you any better than him.
Yes, celebrating the demise of one of the biggest hate mongers of our time is surely the same as picketing the funeral of hundreds of grieving families and persecuting people for their sexuality.

You know what? I'll just be a despicable person then. I don't mind. I'm happy he's dead, and I hope everyone who shares his beliefs will die too. Good riddance.
We can go ahead and kill every single human on Earth then. That would surely, no irony here, solve all our problems.

Except that pesky death thing.
Yes, we could do that, because everyone is clearly on the same level as Phelps.

Oh wait. No they're not. Stop being an apologist for sub-human scum like him.
 

Rebel_Raven

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Some of my fav characters are of the LGBT. Scandal Savage, Knockout, *Takes a moment to mutter about the end of Secret Six, and their lack of appearing in the new 52* Batwoman, Renee Montoya.
Some are kinda close, IMO, or at least just in my mind in Powergirl, Terra, Poison Ivy, and Harley Quinn.

Sadly, I don't think the man's death will slow the anti-LGBT sentiments of the church.
I'm hard pressed to fully dislike the article celebrating his death, taste, or not. Not only was his hatred distasteful, he, and his church, arguably, didn't do Christians any favors by adding to the stereotype that Christians hate LGBT, never-mind having protests at funerals, and threatening George Takei's, and Ellen Degeneres' weddings.

Still, part of me feels bad a guy died, no matter what his views were.
 

RossaLincoln

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"Good riddance"?
As in the earth is better off without him?

Isn't that what he thought about certain people?
 

Bbleds

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So with all the controversy surrounding this individual, and some very understandable personal feelings coming out in this forum, let me say my peace with something positive. Simply that I feel amazed with people in general today. While I'm sure there are some out there discussing on how to take "revenge", a quick google search brought up statements from LGBT groups and others who suffered from the man's hate with the resounding opinion that we should not find ways to publicly avenge his wrongs because that would only play into his atrocious game. I was worried that many would be thinking about the obvious (and unoriginal) choice of picketing his funeral (which current word is there will not be one), but I was happy to find that many people feel the way I do and understand that the only thing we should do is continue to progress as a society, support equality for all individuals, and celebrate the success in those goals.

Oh, and right quick to you Lincoln, I personally didn't find an issue with your article and I enjoyed learning about homosexuality's representation in comics. While your remarks were certainly opinionated, it's a far cry from "fighting hate with hate" and being detrimental to the cause. You know what is most important and made it clear in your article. I'm sure you know this and stand behind your work, just felt like some friendly remarks would be nice.
 

Funyahns

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Normally I would say its bad taste to celebrate a death. In this case though I feel that it was over due. Shame no one shot him years ago at a funeral
 

RossaLincoln

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Silverfox99 said:
LifeCharacter said:
Silverfox99 said:
Is the world a better place with him gone? Yes. My problem with articles like this is the fact that being a bigot to a bigot doesn't make you any less of a bigot then the bigot you are being a bigot to.
When you make bigotry so broad as to include any hatred/intolerance/whatever of anyone or anything, bigotry stops being an inherently bad thing. Quite honestly, we should be bigots to bigots, because doing otherwise might make them feel as if their views are accepted when they aren't and shouldn't be.
The meaning of bigotry is being intolerant of others ideas or beliefs that differs from your own. There is no other qualification and there shouldn't be. When right or wrong gets put into the equation it creates a situation where bigotry can be justified. The justification then leads to excesses of the hateful behavior. This is exactly what the LGBT community has been fighting against. Many of those people resistant to gay rights believe they are correct and right. Since everyone has a different opinions and ideas the only way to stop bigotry is having the meaning be broad.

This does not mean that you agree with them. It does mean that you don't return the hate and intolerance back at them. When you are hateful and a bigot to a bigot you are only reenforcing the hate in that person. You can not agree with them and still not be hateful and intolerant.
I think it's important to keep in mind though that I'm not the one treating Fred Phelps, and his kin, as sick and dirty animals. No, you should never respond to intolerance with more intolerance (although I don't see where the supposed hatred is supposed to be in this article), but the footing isn't exactly equal at the moment. Frankly, I'm not sure it's fair of you to expect the people who are still, in many ways, part of the oppressed minority to act 100% respectfully in response to the death of such a dreadfully hateful bigot. Especially, when his prejudice views are emblematic of an, admittedly dying, but still very noticeable part of American culture.

So, while I won't be throwing a jamboree in honor of Mr.Phelps' death, and nor do I think anyone else should for that matter, I have absolutely NO problem with poking fun at a man who would have liked to see me treated as a second-class citizen because of something I can't control.
 

RossaLincoln

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Yeah.... I get it that Fred Phelps was an asshole to the 3rd degree but it doesn't really mean we should start celebrating his death. I mean, he pretty much dedicated his life to hate (legal hate, but hate nonetheless) but he wasn't the second coming of Hitler. I would expect people to take the high road and not celebrate his death like Westboro does with gay people and soldiers.