good vs. Evil decisions suck!!!!

[MelasZepheos_v1legacy]

Some at least make sense in an in game world.

Star Wars ames where you play as a jedi and don't have light side versus dark side would probably be frowned upon for not taking advantage of something in universe (I know that often the choices are over simplistic, but think about just how many half good and half bad choices could be potentially included, often it's just so that the game will actually function.)

In other places, no it doesn't really make sense. That doesn't necessarily make the concept a bad one, just one that has to be applied carefully.

 

[DarkLordofDevon]

Personally I like the option of being good or evil. So I can deliberately evil and live out my fantasys of being one step below satan on the evil scale, murdering everyone insight in a need to express my inner frustration at the stupidity of man.

Sometimes, the world deserves and anti-christ.

 

[Neosage]

It's called replay value.

Why should you have to repeat a game for a few optional dialogue boxes? The effort of replaying a game =/= the worth of extra dialogue or cut-scenes, although the player will still be missing possibly important content. I understand entirely what Josh is getting at can't you?

Until you go through again, choosing the other options.

Or you could have both powers at your disposal and save the effort of going through the game again? You are just being lazy here Max.

[sup]Hmm, that was certainly an ironic statement.[/sup]

Oh shit, let's all stop because you don't like something.

Once again, you misunderstand the statement; he is arguing that it is detrimental to "your" game, that includes you. Although Josh, next time it would be best to say 'you' instead of 'I'.

...You're complaining about extra content in a game.
Just...no.

This baffled me; he is complaining about having to run through a game 3 or 4 times, on average games that demand this are fairly long, not everyone has that much time. He isn't saying anything about "extra content", more 'missed' content.

Tha...
J...
THINGS DO NOT WORK THAT WAY
THAT IS ALL

You have 100 pts of effort for story, 50 pts go to one side, 50 pts go to the other.
[HEADING=1]THIS IS HOW IT WORKS, MAX >[/HEADING]

This depends entirely upon the developer.

Yes Max, the 'goodness' of a game depends on the developer.

Not if it's done right.

See above point, but this time in a less patronizing manor as that would be less entertaining.

So you agree: It's only bad because it's rarely done well.

If it is difficult to achieve, then his points remain valid. For example, if you have to be an awesome developer to prevent it, then that is a problem. Yes?

THINGS - STILL - DO NOT WORK THAT WAY

That depends entirely on the developer.

Good to see you're being logical and calm about this whole thing.

Irrelevant. Pass.

This is a symptom of being done poorly, not being a bad idea.

Incorrect, he didn't state how this was presented; how is it "done poorly"?

Thank you Captain Obvious.

Thank you General Obviously Obvious.

This is why it's called a "game" and not "reality."

But these sorts of games are built to give a feel of reality. Also I would argue the reason a game is called a game is not because of being able to reload, more something along the lines of the evolution of European languages.

Do you not understand the concept of "progress?"
The world does not exist in stasis.
Things evolve.
Machines improve.
Your grammar sucks. (I know that has nothing to do with the other things, but I figured I should just point that out.)

Again, irrelevant. Pass. Although yes; it won't be like that forever.

Incorrect.
They cannot, as of yet, exist in games.
People used to think that the horse and wagon would never be improved upon.

Yes, but the car was not created instantly, things evolve, and machines improve.

Yes.
That kind of goes hand in hand with that "potent storyline" thing you mentioned.

You do not need reality to achieve a "potent storyline".

Don't confuse yourself with other people.
Some people do enjoy realism, to limited degrees.

The majority of people would pick being able to instantly operate a Mech or spending years learning it, which is essentially what he said.

This is the part that actually pissed me off a bit.
You don't like them, but you aren't fucking speaking for everyone.
Just because you don't like something doesn't give you the right to proclaim it utter shit.
This is the basis of personal opinion.

It is also a rant.
Although Josh, they do work and I like them.

See, again: You are not the only person that matters.

Neosage is.

[sup]Fixed. ^.^[/sup]

Edit: Also posting like this is frowned upon and stop doing it.

 

[TacticalAssassin1]

You are not the only person that matters.

I am.

Haha! Now that's the reason I find you so awesome!

 

[Samurai Goomba]

I say a better idea is to give the player several solutions and never tell him/her what the "good" or "evil" choices are. That way the player has to apply their own morality to the game.

Deus Ex 2 did this. And everyone still hated it. Sigh.

 

[008Zulu_v1legacy]

The standard "Good v Evil" has to exist in games, without them there is no conflict to resolve, no chance of getting the mile high glass fortress or having the damsel in distress swoon over your thrilling heroics. The concept of good and evil are open to interpretation, in KOTOR I never felt going to the dark side was a reflection of being evil/bad, merely a means to an end. Just because you are saving the universe doesnt mean you have to be morally chaste, be a dick once in a while, push the old man in to the fountain, your saving the universe so people can have the freedom to be jerkasses if they want to.

The only way to be a conscientious objector is to not play the game at all.

 

[ottenni]

hummmm i dont know. im pointing out the black and whiteness of the choices that are in these games.

Thank you Captain Obvious.

Your welcome.

 

[Namewithheld]

Planescape Torment didn't just let you be good and evil, it let you be different KINDS of good and evil. For example, in one situation, your sexy part-demon thief party member is scared shitless of a seemingly unassuming shopkeeper. As said shopkeeper has things you need (magical tattoos), you need to deal with your party member to continue. Your choices are...

A) Promise to keep her safe.
B) Tell her to shut the fuckup.
C) Tell her to go outside.

or, my favorite

D) Lie that you will keep her safe.

You can manipulate people by SAYING the 'good' dialog choices, but in actuality, you will be lying! Its a fucking awesome use of the moral choice system.

The only problem is to implement all of these choices into a modern game takes voice actors and artists and animations and money. In Planescape Torment, it took a good writer about 30 minutes.

But when graphics and animations become as easy and as cheap to manipulate as text is, then we can see games as awesome as Planescape Torment again.

And knowing Moors law, we won't have to wait that long.