Gran Turismo 5 Creator Begs Forgiveness Over Frame Rate Issues

Logan Westbrook

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Feb 21, 2008
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Gran Turismo 5 Creator Begs Forgiveness Over Frame Rate Issues


Try as it might, Polyphonal Digitial can't squeeze out any more power out of the PS3, which means that Gran Turismo 5 won't be quite as pretty as it had hoped.

Polyphony Digital head Kaz Yamauchi has apologized to expectant Gran Turismo fans, saying that the game occasionally drops below 60 frames per second when the on-screen action becomes too hectic. He said that frame rate had been a major issue for the team, and it was working hard towards perfecting the game.

Speaking to PSM3 Magazine [http://www.computerandvideogames.com/blog.php?site=psm&channel=playstation], Yamauchi said that the Polyphony engineers were constantly complaining about having to try and achieve a sustained frame rate at a resolution of 1080p, but that he thought it was important to try and get the game as smooth as possible. He was adamant that the dips wouldn't be frequent, just when there was a lot of things going on at once. He gave the example of starting a race in 16th place while it was raining, and said that 15 other cars on-screen all at once, all kicking up sprays of water at the same time, meant that the game might not be running at 60 fps for a few moments.

It's not clear whether the frame rate issues caused the game's most recent delay [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/104344-Gran-Turismo-5s-Concrete-Release-Date-Smashed]. Yamauchi's comment about perfecting the game suggests that Polyphony needed more time, but some sources suggest that it was actually problems caused by Sony's insistence that the game use more up-to-date firmware that caused the game to miss its production window by a few days, which caused a knock on delay of a few weeks.

Without knowing how far the game drops below sixty, it's hard to decide whether Yamauchi is apologizing over nothing or not. If the frame rate practically halves, then sure, that seems like something worth mentioning, but if it's just a couple of frames, I think most Gran Turismo fans will forgive him - if they even notice.

A new release date for Gran Turismo 5 has yet to be announced, but it should be some time this year.

Source: CVG [http://www.computerandvideogames.com/article.php?id=270424]


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JeanLuc761

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Sep 22, 2009
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Well, given I can't really tell the difference between 40fps and 60fps, I doubt this is much to worry about (unless, as Logan said, it drops to 25-30)
 

Aurora219

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Wow, that kinda seems a bit anal to me. 60 FPS is pretty alright. Yeah, I know that the human eye can see drops below 66 FPS but considering how graphics-heavy this game is (in my opinion the GT series has always been more of a tech demo than a fun racing game) it shouldn't worry quite so much about it unless it's game affecting.

Either way, I won't be buying it anyway.
 

Jeronus

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Nov 14, 2008
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They seriously want it to look beautiful. I mean it is insane how much the release date gets pushed back. At this rate, Gran Turismo 5 will be incredible but will come out in 2061 on the PS7.
 

Canid117

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As long as its above 40 why should we care? It is still smooth looking at that rate.
 

Megacherv

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Sep 24, 2008
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If I'm playing it on a standard-definition TV, does it affect me then?
 

mad825

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I think I can understand what Kaz Yamauchi means, as console gamers expect "perfect" frame rates he feels that there might be backlashes.

but remember this people, if you are going to scorn him for this then you must stop playing games altogether as this might be a common issue in the future as consoles are merging the line with PCs
 

Simalacrum

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Apr 17, 2008
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My response is meh. I mean, there are games out there that are perfectly fine at 30fps, so long as it doesn't dip below that it should be perfectly fine and barely noticable.
 

Jesus Phish

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I like the last sentence.

A new release date, should be released this year. Meaning the game, will probably be out next year.

Unless they rerererererelease the release date.... again.
 

DTWolfwood

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Oct 20, 2009
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Can't fault the guy for wanting perfection. and i do appreciate him apologizing for what could amount to nothing at all! XD safe to say the game will be polished to a mirror shine when if it releases!
 

Virgil

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Logan Westbrook said:
Without knowing how far the game drops below sixty, it's hard to decide whether Yamauchi is apologizing over nothing or not.
There's no good gameplay reason why the game can't be fixed to, and maintain, a steady 30fps. Nobody would notice the difference unless they were looking for it. The funny thing is that the cause here is purely Sony's posturing on PS3 graphical power - they just really feel that they need Gran Tourismo running at 60fps @ 1080p for console wars marketing. They probably already have the commercials in production.

A steady framerate, even a lower one, is much better than having dips. This goes double for any game that relies on reflexes. And the situations where the dips are going to occur - when there's a lot of action on the screen - is exactly the time that you don't want your framerate to suffer.
 

Unrulyhandbag

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voorhees123 said:
So did they do the graphics first and gameplay second? Seems it would be easier to make the game so that it can run at 60fps (if that was there goal) and then make the graphics as great as possible without impeding the 60fps.
Yup that they did. Being a simulation it's not a bad thing really; unless the game crawls, but surly the'd switch out the textures and use lower poly models if it was a serious issue?

One of the simulation review sites had a play a couple of years ago and complained that it was too 'consoley'. They recently got another chance to try it out and found it far more realistic, polyphony said they threw out the old simulation engine and bolted in a new one in the last year.
 

Eclectic Dreck

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DTWolfwood said:
Can't fault the guy for wanting perfection. and i do appreciate him apologizing for what could amount to nothing at all! XD safe to say the game will be polished to a mirror shine when if it releases!
I can. Dammit I want to play this game. I wanted to play it years ago. Hell, the Forza franchise has released three full games in the same time frame. I can accept minor frame rate losses and the fact that it doesn't have every car ever, just gimmie!
 

qbanknight

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So let me get this straight, you announced this game back in 2005, probably been working on it for at least a year at that point. And after 6 YEARS, you still haven't found a way to deliver on the promises you made all those years ago?

You know what? Keep your expensive and probably-the-same-as-Forza sim racer. I've been having fun playing Burnout Paradise, Midnight Club: LA, and now I have to look forward to Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit 2. And those are multiplatform. For a PS3 exclusive? I've got Modnation Racers to go nuts with and it's probably 1000x more enjoyable than a tedious racing sim.

Just bear in mind that I also did not like Forza too greatly since I just enjoy racing and not having to tweak a car in order to race effectively
 

Electrogecko

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Apr 15, 2010
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How pathetic and shallow...
Then again, because this is supposed to be a simulation, once the gameplay is as realistic as possible, there's nothing left to do but make it look and sound pretty.
 

tahrey

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Sep 18, 2009
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What are people on about, 40fps and the like? That'll still look as jerky as 30, if not worse.

I'd be alright with it if they just lock it at 30 (or 25 in my area, i suppose). It'll seem transparent because it won't be _jumping back and forth_ between "smooth enough" and "insanely smooth", or jittering between the two several times a second. That kind of change is very noticable, but a game locked at 30 looks just fine.

GT has always had framerate issues down the years, I could understand it on the PSX, and it wasn't too terrible on the more complex bits of the PS2 releases... but, seriously? GT4 was already gorgeous in a number of areas, so... can't they just back off the polygons by a few percent in the least obvious areas? Lose one of the less impressive effects in a scene? Have fewer raindrops? Slightly lower rez water FX? Or a cunning combination of a very slight reduction in all of those? ANYTHING to keep it ticking along internally at 60.001 or higher?

Or, hell, I'm sure an HDTV in the NTSC regions will still accept PAL 50Hz as a valid rate, and it'll still be at 1080p. Why not quietly choose that as the standard, and tweak the settings til it runs smooth at that?

Edit: and as others have said... the gfx were already pretty good... just, for the love of god, get working on the vehicle =and driving= physics, sound and range in your so-called ultimate driving sim. If I take the plunge on this one and have to put up with yet more shoddy manual clutching, lack of actual automatics (even in cars that never had a manual and dragsters that all use torque converter 2-speeds), 2-cylinder engines that sound the same as V6s, engine limiters that instantly drop you 1000rpms rather than missing single beats until the speed falls back from 6501 to 6499, wierd handling round the banked sections, a hundred variations on some godawful japanese family slab but half the major euro models not even having a single representative, etc, then I may have to give up on the series altogether.