Green Man Gaming Takes a Stand Against Price Gouging

AstaresPanda

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Trent Reznor of NINE INCH NAILS found out how high his album was being sold while on tour in Australia and thought WTF, so called up his labal and was like sooooo wtf ? And yeh simple answer coz they know they would pay for it. So that same day when Trent Reznor started this show, he told the crowd how bullshit is it and told them to just steal his music, steal steal and steal some more.
 

SirPigglesworth

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risenbone said:
I'm not sure how New Zealands internet pricing works
It's pretty bad here getting internet from a phone line is near impossible in rural areas so you have to use satellite, I've heard from a few freinds that satellite only works on a fine day and it is really slow and expensive. Pricing is $100 for 2 GB is the worst and $111 for unlimited is the best.
 

Kaymish

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Sep 10, 2008
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well i have an unlimited internet connection well im getting winged at the price for it so im going to have to move to a 30 gb one thats at $88 a month means i can get 1 game a month and some digital music and a little bit of browsing not counting MMOG's and updates and maybe a couple of youtube vids month so soon the price gouging is not going to affect me because i will not be able to download my purchases
 

88chaz88

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Abomination said:
It got me thinking, with Steam being as powerful as it presently is... couldn't they just tell publishers "No, fuck you. You want to sell via Steam then you sell at a worldwide agreed upon price."
Steam is only as powerful as the games it sells, if publishers band together and pull them, Steam doesn't make money.
 

Farther than stars

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Glademaster said:
Farther than stars said:
According to capitalists, shouldn't a competitive market be lowering prices? (Irony!) This is solid proof that prices can be rigged in the free market the same as in any market regulated by the government.
As a side-note, I'm assuming that game discs are actually manufactured and processed in somewhere like China. So how does it cost more to ship them from Asia to Australia, than it does to ship them from Asia to America?
Selling games does not operate in a type of market where the price lowers just cause of competition and demand. It stays up due to Gaming being an Oligopoly.
Yeah, that's my point though. According to the theory of a free market, competition should have established itself by now, offering better or equivalent games at lower prices. The fact that this hasn't happened yet illustrates the tendency of companies to inflate their prices in sync with the competition simply for the sake of a quick buck. That's how your oligopoly is established and maintained.
 

Abomination

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88chaz88 said:
Abomination said:
It got me thinking, with Steam being as powerful as it presently is... couldn't they just tell publishers "No, fuck you. You want to sell via Steam then you sell at a worldwide agreed upon price."
Steam is only as powerful as the games it sells, if publishers band together and pull them, Steam doesn't make money.
I am certain there are ways Steam could 'encourage' publishers to sell at the same price worldwide. Perhaps add a small fee for "regional-pricing services" for every single sale of the game. Don't want to be charged the fee on United States sales? Make all your prices the same (in US dollar value) for every nation.
 

JoshuaMadoc

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I don't think I'm willing to clean up the bloody mess I'd make if I got into an argument against someone who'd be unsympathetic enough so as to DEFEND the huge markups that affect ANZ.
 
Jun 11, 2008
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Farther than stars said:
Glademaster said:
Farther than stars said:
According to capitalists, shouldn't a competitive market be lowering prices? (Irony!) This is solid proof that prices can be rigged in the free market the same as in any market regulated by the government.
As a side-note, I'm assuming that game discs are actually manufactured and processed in somewhere like China. So how does it cost more to ship them from Asia to Australia, than it does to ship them from Asia to America?
Selling games does not operate in a type of market where the price lowers just cause of competition and demand. It stays up due to Gaming being an Oligopoly.
Yeah, that's my point though. According to the theory of a free market, competition should have established itself by now, offering better or equivalent games at lower prices. The fact that this hasn't happened yet illustrates the tendency of companies to inflate their prices in sync with the competition simply for the sake of a quick buck. That's how your oligopoly is established and maintained.
Yes but games aren't a Free Market so you can't compare them at all. Games are not in Perfect Competition they are in an Oligopoly. Also Oligopolies aren't necessarily a bad thing.
 

Aaron Sylvester

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Cool, perhaps this could lead to more online game companies opening up servers in ANZ regions to give us lower ping/latency.

And then perhaps doves will fly out of my ass.
 

Farther than stars

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Glademaster said:
Yes but games aren't a Free Market so you can't compare them at all. Games are not in Perfect Competition they are in an Oligopoly. Also Oligopolies aren't necessarily a bad thing.
Oligopolies are an incredibly bad thing! They invariably drive up prices, such as seen with video games in the ANZ market. Those kinds of business tactics are bad for the consumer and we all know that what's bad for the consumer is bad for the economy.
By the way, are you saying that games cannot exist in a competitive model per definition?
 

Abomination

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Glademaster said:
Yes but games aren't a Free Market so you can't compare them at all. Games are not in Perfect Competition they are in an Oligopoly. Also Oligopolies aren't necessarily a bad thing.
There is no practical reason for the price increase of ANZ games.

Essentially the reason for the pricing is "because we can" and "because they will pay". The reason why ANZ gamers will pay is because they have no choice.

Then they wonder why ANZ consumers turn to piracy.
 
Jun 11, 2008
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Farther than stars said:
Glademaster said:
Yes but games aren't a Free Market so you can't compare them at all. Games are not in Perfect Competition they are in an Oligopoly. Also Oligopolies aren't necessarily a bad thing.
Oligopolies are an incredibly bad thing! They invariably drive up prices, such as seen with video games in the ANZ market. Those kinds of business tactics are bad for the consumer and we all know that what's bad for the consumer is bad for the economy.
By the way, are you saying that games cannot exist in a competitive model per definition?
Yes game and every other thing sold in the world bar a very few select things actually exist in perfect competition. Like everything if something is operating properly and not being abused there are advantages for everyone easy price comparison, focus on quality and "loyalty" perks are some of the consumer advantages for Oligopoly.

Abomination said:
Glademaster said:
Yes but games aren't a Free Market so you can't compare them at all. Games are not in Perfect Competition they are in an Oligopoly. Also Oligopolies aren't necessarily a bad thing.
There is no practical reason for the price increase of ANZ games.

Essentially the reason for the pricing is "because we can" and "because they will pay". The reason why ANZ gamers will pay is because they have no choice.

Then they wonder why ANZ consumers turn to piracy.
Yes there is a practical reason why Oligopolies have more static prices. As if they didn't they would just price war until they went out of business to put it simply. The reason why they are at a point where they are exorbitant is because people keep paying for them despite the reason for them being high not existing anymore. There are choices out there talked about in other threads such as people importing.
 

Wyes

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risenbone said:
I'm not sure how New Zealands internet pricing works but I know from living in Australia that the internet there is extremely limited as in evan the so called unlimited internet will throttle back from ASDL speed to dial up once you download 10 gigabites of data so it's not like Australians can really go crazy with downloading games.
I'm not sure what provider you were with, but it sounds like you were getting shafted...
 

88chaz88

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Abomination said:
I am certain there are ways Steam could 'encourage' publishers to sell at the same price worldwide. Perhaps add a small fee for "regional-pricing services" for every single sale of the game. Don't want to be charged the fee on United States sales? Make all your prices the same (in US dollar value) for every nation.
First off, Steam can't make everything priced using the US as an example. For Europe, VAT laws would mean that Steam could be making a loss on some sales.

Secondly to tell major publishers what to charge for their games otherwise they'll start charging them more is the quickest way to turn Steam into a desolate wasteland with little to no AAA games.

Just because Steam make a lot of money doesn't mean they're not reliant on business and goodwill from their suppliers.
 

Abomination

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88chaz88 said:
Abomination said:
I am certain there are ways Steam could 'encourage' publishers to sell at the same price worldwide. Perhaps add a small fee for "regional-pricing services" for every single sale of the game. Don't want to be charged the fee on United States sales? Make all your prices the same (in US dollar value) for every nation.
First off, Steam can't make everything priced using the US as an example. For Europe, VAT laws would mean that Steam could be making a loss on some sales.

Secondly to tell major publishers what to charge for their games otherwise they'll start charging them more is the quickest way to turn Steam into a desolate wasteland with little to no AAA games.

Just because Steam make a lot of money doesn't mean they're not reliant on business and goodwill from their suppliers.
Clearly juggling the VAT laws in Europe would be up to Steam, adjusting the price to U$ based on that. That's a VALID reason for a different regional pricing for Europe.

Australia and New Zealand though have no excuse beyond "we can get away with it".

I have seen banks charge small transaction fees for subtle changes or complications investors request. I am certain steam could introduce such things. Nothing massive, nothing that would possibly outweigh their goodwill, but -something- to show their consumers at least they don't think the practice is economically ethical.
 

Flying Dagger

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Isn't the reason games prices are so high because they have such a high minimum wage?
at 25$ minimum wage 100 doesnt sound so bad for a game
 

MopBox

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Flying Dagger said:
Isn't the reason games prices are so high because they have such a high minimum wage?
at 25$ minimum wage 100 doesnt sound so bad for a game
Nope. I think the reasoning was originally tied up in shipping but is now just a response to market expectations. Like how DVD's retailed at the same price as VHS despite being much cheaper to produce.
 

Therumancer

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As I understand things Australia (the entire continent) and it's isolation are still a problem even with digital distribution. Despite what people might think the internet is not some magical blanket that covers everything and only n eeds to be tapped into, as those with limited access can attest. Anyone who has ever had trouble getting a signal for a portable device, or had to go hunting for an accessible Wi-Fi connection should know this.

Australia, New Zealand, etc.. also pride themselves on being extremely rural, despite having some huge, modern cities, anyone who has ever had someone from this region go off on US bashing for this reason, talking about how "oh gee, I forget Horseback riding isn't a common skill in the US anymore", how great they are with nature preservation, and like how 7 out of 10 of the world's most poisonous animals (or whatever the number was) live there and still crawl around in great numbers.

The point here being that going to a seperate continent, that has it's large community centers but it overall sparsely populated compared to other portions of the world with people packed everywhere, and blanketing the entire thing with internet access when even nations like the US have trouble getting connection to the rural areas, represents a problem. There is also the issue of money being made off of this on a whole, needing to maintain that infrastructure, in light of how many people in each region are going to have to use it. While areas like Sydney, Perth, Melbourne, etc... might be able to more than support their usage of internet, other parts of the country might very well not have enough users to really justify the infrastructure, demands for it anyway have doubtlessly lead to strain and high prices for the areas that can justify it as they effectively pick up the tab for regions that can't justify their own internet access from the perspective of "for profit" companies (and remember, it is all being run for profit).

Australia also tends to be a borderline police state when it comes to internet access, alongside nations like France and China they seem to be big proponents of the whole "National Firewall" concept in limiting information from other countries both due to offensive content, and in the spirit of "cultural preservation". It seems like we periodically hear things about Australian net and electronic censorship which are spine chilling to the civilized world, and spark internal protests from more tech-savvy Australians. At the extreme end we've had groups like Anonymous attack the Australian goverment with online harassment in retaliation. In an overall sense this does not make Australia that attractive for those wanting to provide internet service, especially when the burden of enforcement and censorship can apparently fall to the ISPs themselves, even when they don't object on principle, the bottom line is that enforcement of this kind of thing is going to take time, effort, and manpower, not to mention the constant risk of fines when they fail.


The point here being that when you hear Aussies and Kiwis go off about their own goverments you can kind of see where a lot of these problems come from. Not to mention that a lot of the aspects that are lionized as being great about these countries come with their own down side, and the spread of technology and communications infrastructures is one of them. When you slam US problems, and talk about your own lack of urban blight as a national issue (despite there being regions where it is a problem), it's easy to forget that those problems are the cost of being able to do things like virtually blanket the entire nation under pretty cheap internet access at relatively high speeds. Not to mention the whole issue of freedom of expression on the internet, even as limited as it's becming, still being incredibly high leads to a lot of horribly offensive garbage coming along with it. Australia protects it's citizens from the trash, but that comes at the expense of freedom and of course the costs inherant in having people activelt regulate it.

Just some thoughts.

Also, the bit about Horseback riding (before someone mentions it) comes from a Kiwi I played WoW with who claimed she was an extra in "Lord Of The Rings" during a lot of the mass battles and riding sequences, who said this was actually a common skill in New Zealand and Australia, and was backed up by other guild mates from the same region, compared to the US where it's at best regional.