Gun advocate mocks Australia's tough laws

Bat Vader

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knight steel said:
Gwhahhahahaha
oh oh my side's hurt make it stop XD

Silly American's of course we are from a different planet why do you think we have so many dangerous ungodly creatures it's because they are actually aliens :D

Anyway everyone knows that guns are useless against drop bears >_<

For a second there I thought that drop bear picture was going to be a picture of a large spider that has been bred and trained to hunt and kill animals the size of a bear. Nice to see it is just a Koala. I would love to visit Australia one day but the massive arachnophobia I have is what stops me. I'm just worried about going into a hotel room and having a large spider drop on my face.
 

knight steel

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Bat Vader said:
knight steel said:
Gwhahhahahaha
oh oh my side's hurt make it stop XD

Silly American's of course we are from a different planet why do you think we have so many dangerous ungodly creatures it's because they are actually aliens :D

Anyway everyone knows that guns are useless against drop bears >_<

For a second there I thought that drop bear picture was going to be a picture of a large spider that has been bred and trained to hunt and kill animals the size of a bear. Nice to see it is just a Koala. I would love to visit Australia one day but the massive arachnophobia I have is what stops me. I'm just worried about going into a hotel room and having a large spider drop on my face.
Just a koala.........JUST A KOLA you poor poor naive fool they are nothing alike:


And the worse thing is they hit you when you least expect it causing savage wounds:

 

EstrogenicMuscle

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Fraser Greenfield said:
I'll just leave this here for you gents.
I love the Daily Show so much. Oh my God, that memorial was amazing.

I am glad that the Daily Show is available over the internet. Because even as amazing as the Daily Show is, it isn't worth paying for Cable or Satellite television for.
 

Bat Vader

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knight steel said:
Bat Vader said:
knight steel said:
Gwhahhahahaha
oh oh my side's hurt make it stop XD

Silly American's of course we are from a different planet why do you think we have so many dangerous ungodly creatures it's because they are actually aliens :D

Anyway everyone knows that guns are useless against drop bears >_<

For a second there I thought that drop bear picture was going to be a picture of a large spider that has been bred and trained to hunt and kill animals the size of a bear. Nice to see it is just a Koala. I would love to visit Australia one day but the massive arachnophobia I have is what stops me. I'm just worried about going into a hotel room and having a large spider drop on my face.
Just a koala.........JUST A KOLA you poor poor naive fool they are nothing alike:


And the worse thing is they hit you when you least expect it causing savage wounds:

Aww, a Koala just mutilated that poor guy, that's adorable. I can see how Koalas are dangerous but I just think spiders are scarier. Seeing as how some of them are bigger than koalas.
 

Guitarmasterx7

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Dirty Hipsters said:
I hate that idiots like this make the rest of us reasonable gun owners look bad.

I do agree with Cleave that the US and Australia aren't really comparable in terms of violence, but the way Cleave said it made him sound like an ass who doesn't know what the hell he's talking about.
Yeah seriously, there's nothing worse than presenting a good point in the least compelling way so it can be so easily shot down (no pun intended.)

America is much different from Australia a lot of ways, geographically and situationally. We're a huge country wherein lots of people have guns, sandwiched between two other large countries full of guns, one of which being extremely criminally active. Australia being an island with a couple hundred million less people living there makes enforcing gun laws much easier and more effective. Also, there's the matter of the american mentality towards guns to take into account as well. Similar gun legislature here would not go nearly the same way.
 

Bat Vader

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knight steel said:
Bat Vader said:
That's understandable I'm more scared of spider's as well but the small one's are worse in my opinion.
Because they are harder to see since they are smaller and can hide in shoes and stuff?
 

Liham

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ClockworkPenguin said:
Although it pains me to say it because I really dislike guns; whilst the video was hilarious, I'm not particularly surprised that he won a debate against someone who seemed basically unprepared. Just because that guy didn't have any valid arguments, doesn't mean there aren't any.
What would you say the valid arguments are then?
 

knight steel

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Bat Vader said:
knight steel said:
Bat Vader said:
That's understandable I'm more scared of spider's as well but the small one's are worse in my opinion.
Because they are harder to see since they are smaller and can hide in shoes and stuff?
Exactly big one's you see them easily-you know where they are-and it easier to catch them-also bigger spider tend to be less poisonous.
Small ones on the other hand could bite and poison you without you even knowing until it too late-that why spider are scary not because of look but because of their position also smaller spider can crawl into your ears and stuff big spider can't do that.
 

thePyro_13

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knight steel said:
Bat Vader said:
knight steel said:
Bat Vader said:
That's understandable I'm more scared of spider's as well but the small one's are worse in my opinion.
Because they are harder to see since they are smaller and can hide in shoes and stuff?
Exactly big one's you see them easily-you know where they are-and it easier to catch them-also bigger spider tend to be less poisonous.
Small ones on the other hand could bite and poison you without you even knowing until it too late-that why spider are scary not because of look but because of their position also smaller spider can crawl into your ears and stuff big spider can't do that.
Also most Australian spiders get big by eating other spiders. So if you find a big huntsman hanging around your house, then there shouldn't be much other spiders around either. Although motels and stuff are terrible for spiders, I stayed at a place once and had to complain to their management, how does such a small room have like 8+ meaty sized spiders in it? How did the cleaners not find them, they were big ones that were happy to wander around. Uggh, I'm terrified of spiders.
 

tkioz

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"It's not the United States. It's some other planet: different people, different everything ... but in the real world, with human beings, it's not going to work and gun control isn't going to work. "
Okay speaking as an Australian that is incredibly offensive, it was like he went out of his way to word in the most obnoxious way possible. He's correct that Australia and America are different places with different cultures, but the way he said it was very very dickish. Despite the commonalities between Australia and America (we both speak English, we're both former British colonies, etc) there are vast differences between our cultures, and not just how we view firearms, but let's limit ourselves to guns.

America has a much more violent history then Australia, they needed a rebellion/revolution to get their independence, we got ours via peaceful measures, they had a civil war with hundreds of thousands dead, the closest we came was the Eureka stockade with a few hundred people. Both nations had issues with their native populations and the treatment of such, but the American native population was much larger and much more likely to fight back.

In Australia the firearm is something that was used for hunting, sport, and when we went to war, overseas, in America it was/is the symbol of how they won their nation, their civil war, and personal protection during their expansionist phase.

So that viewpoint needs to be considered.

All that being said, valid points aside, the guy can go suck a rancid lemon, because he obviously knows jack-shit out my country. Calling us 'racist'? Get rooted. All nations have issues with racism, and I wont deny we've got some, but the 'most racist'? No way, I don't see the KKK, Blackshirts, lynchings, slavery, or any thing even remotely like that in our recent history.

We had One Nation (ultra conservative party) that won a few seats in the 90s... you know what happened to them? They got destroyed in the polls, unlike the incredibly racist parties in the UK/US that hold positions of power. We had the Cronulla Riots, which were nothing compared to the UK Riots, or any of the crap that happens in the states all the damn time. I suppose you could bring up that 'blackface' bollocks from a few years ago, or maybe that KFC chicken advert... but oh wait THEY WEREN'T RACIST, they were AMERICANS putting THEIR cultural hangups on countries that DON'T have anything like that.

Seriously I get so utterly sick of this Americo-centric bollocks.
 

Jaythulhu

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dumbseizure said:
thaluikhain said:
Jack the Potato said:
or at least that one Australian politician who sacrificed his political career to actually do what he believed was right.
Er, who do you mean? The Howard government passed the gun laws, and he remained as PM through to 2007.
He means Rob Borbidge, who was Queenslands premier. He helped implement gun control, even though it killed his political career to do it.
The gun control thing had NOTHING to do with why we voted out Rob Borbidge. It was his useless, ineffective and inept government that cost him his career. Borbidge was stuffy, obnoxious, charisma-less wanker who couldn't organise a fuck in a brothel with a fist full of fifties and who was sending our state down the gurgler.

The vast, vast, VAST majority of Aussies supported the bans and still do. It's only a few nutters that no one pays any attention to who bang on about the issue still.

tkioz said:
I suppose you could bring up that 'blackface' bollocks from a few years ago
Oh hahahahaha, I remember that. Harry Connick Jr got upset because some Indian doctors put on afro wigs and blackened their faces a bit to do a tribute to Michael Jackson. It was all the more hilarious since Connick Jr had done the 'blackface' thing himself not that long prior.
 

tkioz

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Jaythulhu said:
The vast, vast, VAST majority of Aussies supported the bans and still do. It's only a few nutters that no one pays any attention to who bang on about the issue still.
Well at the time (I was 16) I was pretty pissed about the ban because I had to hand in a fairly new semi-auto rifle that I had saved for ages to buy, but I got over it, I still own guns and I firmly support firearm controls. That being said there are few minor details in the current laws that need tweaking to make the lives of gun owners easier, mainly in the bureaucratic arena, in some places it can take months for the paperwork involved in purchasing a new firearm to get sorted, and these are people who already have licences/storage/etc all sorted, not people buying their first gun.

Oh and there a few vocal nutters on both sides (pro and anti) who need ignoring, there are the radical "I want a Crew Service Machinegun" wackjobs that need locking up and the "Ban everything" nutjobs that need a kick in the pants.
 

Thaluikhain

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Jaythulhu said:
The vast, vast, VAST majority of Aussies supported the bans and still do. It's only a few nutters that no one pays any attention to who bang on about the issue still.
As an aside, the same people who are pissed off with Howard for that tend to be pissed off at him for wearing a bulletproof vest during an announcement once. The very idea that gun-owners might try to attack the government was an insult they've still not forgiven.
 

ClockworkPenguin

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Liham said:
ClockworkPenguin said:
Although it pains me to say it because I really dislike guns; whilst the video was hilarious, I'm not particularly surprised that he won a debate against someone who seemed basically unprepared. Just because that guy didn't have any valid arguments, doesn't mean there aren't any.
What would you say the valid arguments are then?
Oh I didn't say I had any, just that it would be fallacious to assume they don't exist based on this guy's poor performance. (a straw-man to be specific)

I'm sure I would lose an argument about Europe to Nigel Farage. Not because their are no compelling pro EU points, but because he knows the anti-EU points better than I know the pro-EU points, and because I don't know enough off the top of my head to call him out on any of his bullshit, whereas he could probably call me out on mine.

Just because the debate was won by John Oliver, doesn't mean the argument was.
 

Ken Sapp

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The problem is not access to guns. The millions of law abiding gun owners prove that as well as incidents like the recent Boston massacre and other mass killings which have been carried out without the use of firearms. The problem is sociological and psychological. We used to have institutions that existed solely to care for the mentally ill and prevent the violent ones from doing harm. They were mostly closed though as the conditions in some (possibly many) were deplorable and the states didn't want to pay for them anymore. Another facet of the problem is rooted in the breakdown of the family structure where it seems more and more parents, particularly those of lower income, do very little to instill proper civilized behavior and values in their children. Small wonder that we have the urban gang problems and drug issues that seem to be behind the majority of violent crimes that take place.

We need to do a better job of identifying and treating the mentally ill in the US. We also need to be building up a return to the idea that parents are responsible for raising their children to upstanding and law abiding citizens. It doesn't take a village to raise a child as some politicians have put forth, it takes parents who care enough to take an interest in their children's well-being and want the best future for them.



Oops, kinda started wandering. Main point: Stop blaming the tools and start trying to solve the real problems.
 

Jordi

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That Van Cleave guy said some stupid things, but I believe the "Australians are aliens" bit might have been based on a misunderstanding. I think that when Oliver asked him to hypothetically consider that gun control could work, Van Cleave went with it and in his mind imagined a planet in a parallel universe or something. Then when Oliver briefly mentioned Australia, I think Van Cleave more or less ignored it and continued his train of thought about the place he just imagined where gun control would work. The audience gets a segment on Australia in between, but Van Cleave likely didn't.

To be honest, I get a feeling that the antagonists in the videos get set up a lot. Sure, they say stupid things all by themselves, but I can't shake the feeling that they're sometimes being tricked. And I say this as someone who thought the videos were hilarious and agrees with the points they're making.

xDarc said:
I live in Detroit area and our murder rate is comparable to Somalia.
Do you think that maybe that has something to do with Detroit having gun control laws similar to Somalia?

Because that is kind of the crux. It's a chicken and egg problem. You think you need guns because there is so much gun violence. Others think there is so much violence because you have guns.

Personally I'm somewhat in favor of gun control, but I'll freely admit that I haven't done any of the research and I don't know what can plausibly work and what can't. It's an arms race, and it's clear to me that the best thing would be bilateral disarmament, but since you can't really tell that to criminals that may be tough.

However, I think the knee-jerk reaction to just say "well X is not America so there's nothing we can learn from their experience" is wrong. Sure, there are differences, but there are also a shitton of similarities. The right course of action is to look at the lessons from - in this case - Australia, compare the similarities and correct for the differences.
 

Pipotchi

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Arakasi said:
Australia is the most comfortably racist place I've been. But mostly because I've never been outside Australia. I think that Australia does have a lot of overt racism, but I also think that people here are less likely to act on that racism (aside from voting against pro-immigration policies) whereas in somewhere like America, you seem to be more likely to get your head caved in.
This quoted for truth, I was in Australia last September with my British (Chinese) Girlfriend and Casual racism seemed pretty endemic, people in shops and cafes just seemed to look straight through her as if she wasn't there. She liked the country but wouldn't feel comfortable living there
 

Thaluikhain

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Ken Sapp said:
We need to do a better job of identifying and treating the mentally ill in the US. We also need to be building up a return to the idea that parents are responsible for raising their children to upstanding and law abiding citizens. It doesn't take a village to raise a child as some politicians have put forth, it takes parents who care enough to take an interest in their children's well-being and want the best future for them.
Don't quite agree.

There needs to be a lot more done to help the mentally ill, but this needs to be done to help them, not help everyone else. If it is for everyone's else's (direct) benefit, to protect "normal people" from them, it doesn't work. People with mental illness just avoid treatment to avoid being stigmatised.

Secondly, sometimes good parents aren't enough. The village to raise a child stuff isn't so far-fetched. If the parents are in a good place, socially and financially, fine. If not, if they are unemployed, or disabled, or any number of other things, then they can have severe problems with parenting through no fault of their own.

OTOH, those are areas which definitely need more work, yes.