Gunman holding hostages in Martin Place (Sydney - Australia)

WolfThomas

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Dec 21, 2007
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lunavixen said:
Some news outlets say heart attack, others say cardiac arrest, and a few say fatally shot, we won't know for sure until/if the autopsy results are released to the public.
Agreed we cannot be certain until any more information is released. However it makes far more sense though that a 38 year old would die from a cardiac arrest caused by gunshot trauma (hypovolemia, cardiac tamponade, pneumothorax etc) than having a myocardial infart/heart attack. Which would also technically cause an arrest.

I think it's probably a mistake on the medias behalf with terminolgy.
 

lunavixen

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WolfThomas said:
lunavixen said:
Some news outlets say heart attack, others say cardiac arrest, and a few say fatally shot, we won't know for sure until/if the autopsy results are released to the public.
Agreed we cannot be certain until any more information is released. However it makes far more sense though that a 38 year old would die from a cardiac arrest caused by gunshot trauma (hypovolemia, cardiac tamponade, pneumothorax etc) than having a myocardial infart/heart attack. Which would also technically cause an arrest.

I think it's probably a mistake on the medias behalf with terminolgy.
Entirely possible, though if she had a pre-existing heart condition or family history of early heart attacks (like I do), that throws "normally" out the window, but for the sake of avoiding an argument, I'll let it drop.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Jiggle Counter said:
I gotta admit, I was VERY surprised when the media behaved itself.
Let's just say that certain parts of some of the security laws that have passed over the last decade or so have given both governments and the police a damned big stick wave at the media if they go off-script.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Shamanic Rhythm said:
RhombusHatesYou said:
Dammit, miss-heard the news and thought they said the Grand Moff of Australia had released a statement... turned out it was the Grand Mufti of Australia which made much more sense but was far less exciting.
THAT WOULD EXPLAIN EVERYTHING.
Only if Tony started publicly parading around in black robes and killing people with lightning.

So far he's kept such activities out of the public eye.
 

J Tyran

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RicoADF said:
Sounds like NSW police failed by waiting until the gunman had killed someone. They should have assaulted the place earlier when they could do it under their terms in a planned out raid rather than this response to what the gunman was doing.
Even the best planned raids can quickly fall to pieces, waiting until they start killing hostages is a standard tactic. At that point the risks are outweighed by the need to put a stop to it as quickly as possible.
 

blackrave

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If someone more experienced than me is reading this I wanted to ask one thing
I know it sounds like sci-fi bullshit that some CoD fanboy who imagines that he knows everything about guns may ask
And I apologize in front

How realistic is to use thermal camera/sights and shoot through wall?
What are the issues of such solution?
 

RhombusHatesYou

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blackrave said:
How realistic is to use thermal camera/sights and shoot through wall?
Completely unrealistic.

What are the issues of such solution?
Well the biggest problem is that, unless you have an extremely heavy projectile that's moving extremely fast, encountering any relatively solid object is going to have unpredictable results as physics gives the projectile's inertia a good kicking. That means the chances of you hitting what you shot at are much, much lower and your chances of hitting something you don't want shot are much, much higher. On the other side of that, is that a projectile that can penetrate a solid wall and keep in a straight line to target has enough inertia that it's going to plough right through your target and keep on going until it eventually loses enough energy for something solid to stop it (but may still have enough energy to richochet).

All this assumes that you have some sort of vision system that can penetrate solid objects in real time with the quality that would allow target ID and also be small enough to be helmet or rifle mounted... and if you have one of those you probably commute to work via jetpack.
 

Shamanic Rhythm

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RhombusHatesYou said:
Shamanic Rhythm said:
RhombusHatesYou said:
Dammit, miss-heard the news and thought they said the Grand Moff of Australia had released a statement... turned out it was the Grand Mufti of Australia which made much more sense but was far less exciting.
THAT WOULD EXPLAIN EVERYTHING.
Only if Tony started publicly parading around in black robes and killing people with lightning.

So far he's kept such activities out of the public eye.
Nah, it wouldn't be Tones who's the sith lord. More likely it would be someone connected to him, a decrepit old man who is normally far away from him but appears now and then to give his orders, and is recognised with formal ceremonies when he does come here. Someone who wields immense power and influence despite being so obviously corrupt, and who has bestowed his favour upon Tony but is currently threatening to revoke it...

Nah, can't think of anyone. ;)
 

RicoADF

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J Tyran said:
Even the best planned raids can quickly fall to pieces, waiting until they start killing hostages is a standard tactic. At that point the risks are outweighed by the need to put a stop to it as quickly as possible.
I know and it's a tactic I disagree with completely, I believe they should be more proactive than reactive. True that all plans are the first casualty in any engagement, but that doesn't mean you wait for the enemy to have the upper hand.
 

RhombusHatesYou

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Shamanic Rhythm said:
RhombusHatesYou said:
Shamanic Rhythm said:
RhombusHatesYou said:
Dammit, miss-heard the news and thought they said the Grand Moff of Australia had released a statement... turned out it was the Grand Mufti of Australia which made much more sense but was far less exciting.
THAT WOULD EXPLAIN EVERYTHING.
Only if Tony started publicly parading around in black robes and killing people with lightning.

So far he's kept such activities out of the public eye.
Nah, it wouldn't be Tones who's the sith lord. More likely it would be someone connected to him, a decrepit old man who is normally far away from him but appears now and then to give his orders, and is recognised with formal ceremonies when he does come here. Someone who wields immense power and influence despite being so obviously corrupt, and who has bestowed his favour upon Tony but is currently threatening to revoke it...
Well in that case Tony wouldn't allow anyone but him to hold the title of Grand Moff.



captcha: 'be mine' DON'T BE SO CLINGY, CAPTCHA
 

RhombusHatesYou

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RicoADF said:
J Tyran said:
Even the best planned raids can quickly fall to pieces, waiting until they start killing hostages is a standard tactic. At that point the risks are outweighed by the need to put a stop to it as quickly as possible.
I know and it's a tactic I disagree with completely, I believe they should be more proactive than reactive.
It's not that they wait for actual deaths, they don't... not exactly. What they do wait for signs that the situation has destabilised to the point that waiting is more dangerous for the hostages than an assault will be. The problems happen when the signs are either missed or the leadtime between signs and action are too close together to react in time.
 

Thaluikhain

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blackrave said:
If someone more experienced than me is reading this I wanted to ask one thing
I know it sounds like sci-fi bullshit that some CoD fanboy who imagines that he knows everything about guns may ask
And I apologize in front

How realistic is to use thermal camera/sights and shoot through wall?
What are the issues of such solution?
Walls are designed to keep heat in. They are more or less totally opaque to thermal vision (though maybe you could tell the inside was hotter than the outside, but that would probably be through gaps). As an aside, ordinary glass is as well.

Shooting through walls is fine...as long as the intent is dead people. Military snipers have been successful with this, concrete is concealment, not cover, to various ammunition. Hitting a given target you can't see first time, and not hitting anyone else isn't always an absolute priority for them, though.
 

J Tyran

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RicoADF said:
J Tyran said:
Even the best planned raids can quickly fall to pieces, waiting until they start killing hostages is a standard tactic. At that point the risks are outweighed by the need to put a stop to it as quickly as possible.
I know and it's a tactic I disagree with completely, I believe they should be more proactive than reactive. True that all plans are the first casualty in any engagement, but that doesn't mean you wait for the enemy to have the upper hand.
The problem is authorities and the various agencies have always been wary since incidents like the Munich Massacre when a planned raid got botched, its generally safer for everyone to talk them out.

Even in more recent issues around the world the hostages are often more likely to die if they have to free them by force, tactics might change in the face of terrorists that will happily die if they can take a few unlucky people with them though.