Gunman kills 5 at LGBTQ nightclub

Godzillarich(aka tf2godz)

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The death penalty in Colorado ended two years ago.
It should be noted that a hate crime is a federal offense which if he's charged with could still get him the death penalty. This is one of the reasons I don't buy him being non-binary along with some of the other evidence like his dad's thoughts or he's online history.
 
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tippy2k2

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The shooter and the lawyer are so blatant with their attempts to dodge the shooting to be a hate crime by claiming the're nonbinary is absolutely fucking disgusting.

I'd comment on the right wing clowns deciding that THIS is the one case where people need to respect the person's pronouns (after years of Attack Helicopter jokes, dead naming individuals, and screaming "only two genders") but anything I'd say would probably be against the forum rules...
 

BrawlMan

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It should be noted that a hate crime is a federal offense which if he's charged with could still get him the death penalty.
Good to know. He will get charged with a hate crime. I don't know if he will get the death penalty because of it, but the fucker ain't going anywhere. Him and his father are coward to the highest caliber. The father deserves to be with him in an eternity of torment for their sins.
 

Cheetodust

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The shooter and the lawyer are so blatant with their attempts to dodge the shooting to be a hate crime by claiming the're nonbinary is absolutely fucking disgusting.

I'd comment on the right wing clowns deciding that THIS is the one case where people need to respect the person's pronouns (after years of Attack Helicopter jokes, dead naming individuals, and screaming "only two genders") but anything I'd say would probably be against the forum rules...
Let me help.


Anyone who decides now that they want to call this shooter they/them as the first time they've even acknowledged non-binary as an identity is a cretinous fucking goblin. Anyone who says we're hypocrites for doubting his sincerity because he waited until after he killed and injured a bunch of queer people in a queer space ia a cretinous fucking goblin. Anyone who says he's just crazy and we shouldn't believe that he hates queer people and was radicalised against queer people is a cretinous fucking goblin. Even if you're being insincere just to "troll the libs" over being upset that 5 innocent people were killed for the crime of being queer in public then you're a cretinous fucking goblin. And if you're in this thread, reading this and you feel that I'm talking about you, I am.
 

Seanchaidh

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Cool, lets apply this standard universally, to all claims of self-identification, and require official verification and consistent standards be met, as opposed to having people come up with fantasy tumblr shit and ask us to larp along at the penalty of social destruction.
universally? ok. in cases where it is utterly clear that someone is claiming a gender in order to troll the libs, people can either respect or not respect that gender claim as they find convenient, tactical, or whatever. because there is only erring on the side of caution when there is the possibility of error.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Anyone who decides now that they want to call this shooter they/them as the first time they've even acknowledged non-binary as an identity is a cretinous fucking goblin. Anyone who says we're hypocrites for doubting his sincerity because he waited until after he killed and injured a bunch of queer people in a queer space ia a cretinous fucking goblin. Anyone who says he's just crazy and we shouldn't believe that he hates queer people and was radicalised against queer people is a cretinous fucking goblin. Even if you're being insincere just to "troll the libs" over being upset that 5 innocent people were killed for the crime of being queer in public then you're a cretinous fucking goblin. And if you're in this thread, reading this and you feel that I'm talking about you, I am.
You know, it's somehow worse: the assclowns like Walsh pushing this line are saying *we* have to uncritically accept this, but because they think non-binary people don't exist *they* get to keep calling him a guy. It's pure trolling, top to bottom. They can't even pretend to give a shit
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Hot take, the shooter's motivation doesn't matter to the broader conversation. Every conservative ghoul out there couldn't wait to trot out the "violence is bad but it's really the Groomer's fault and if the LGBTs don't get rid of drag and stop trying to go after children like the pedos they are what do you expect?" argument.

They wanted this to happen. That's a problem, even in the extremely unlikely case that this shooting is unrelated
 

Cheetodust

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Hot take, the shooter's motivation doesn't matter to the broader conversation. Every conservative ghoul out there couldn't wait to trot out the "violence is bad but it's really the Groomer's fault and if the LGBTs don't get rid of drag and stop trying to go after children like the pedos they are what do you expect?" argument.

They wanted this to happen. That's a problem, even in the extremely unlikely case that this shooting is unrelated
Exactly. Tim Pool and Matt Walsh are still insisting that LQBTQ+ people are dangerous groomers who are a threat to children! They don't get to pretend that they aren't help motivating hatred and violence against them.
 

meiam

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This is an interesting point, there may be truth in it, but there's plenty of groups to hate that deserve being hated. People go on weird, frothing rants accusing groups of being child abusers when they aren't, where's the hatred for groups that actually abuse children, for example? Where's the calls for massive, sweeping reforms of the church and various secular institutions with a known history of concealing child abuse?
The only requirement for the group to be hated is for them to be different than the person doing the hating. So if someone was born and raised christian, christian cannot be the group to hate since they're part of it, it has to be something else. I suspect a lot of reason why the typical white christian terrorist says that the LBGTQ community are pedo/groomer is because they can use that to deflect the charges from group they associate with.

Ultimately, the biggest "crime" is to be different from them and the more different the better.
 

Elvis Starburst

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Step a few centuries back, and merely having a pantry full of spices from the orient, knowing how to read and write and getting to bathe when you wish would crown you as a person living in the lap of luxury, benefiting of the highest comforts, and wanting for nothing. This is the level of comfort we nowadays take for granted, when it was only the privilege of royalty for thousands of years up until...basically a century ago give or take. We are improving leaps and bounds here.

Some folks are just weirded out or insecure or repressed or just crazy as all hell. You can't help that, and hey, at least now you can take shelter from it, in your bathtub, reading a book on your magic light stone and drinking spiced wine like freaking Cleopatra.
I don't like how much this reads as "you have it better than you ever would have before, so stop complaining." It's an easy way to dismiss and minimize the problems of others by pretending that their problems aren't actually problems in the grand scheme of past history, which is an unfair comparison because this is the time we live in now. This means we should base our arguments and issues on the standards of today, not the standards of any amount of time in the past.

so I think the doom and gloom is a tad hysterical.
It's not "doom and gloom" it's real fucking life. Do I need to point to the topic of this thread to make that even more clear?
 

Baffle

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I don't like how much this reads as "you have it better than you ever would have before, so stop complaining." It's an easy way to dismiss and minimize the problems of others by pretending that their problems aren't actually problems in the grand scheme of past history, which is an unfair comparison because this is the time we live in now. This means we should base our arguments and issues on the standards of today, not the standards of any amount of time in the past.
It's okay if I beat up grannies, because they would never have gotten to 80 years old in the 19th century anyway. Especially not the frail ones that are the easiest to beat up.
 

tippy2k2

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It's okay if I beat up grannies, because they would never have gotten to 80 years old in the 19th century anyway. Especially not the frail ones that are the easiest to beat up.
TBF, the people who make TWO GENDERS jokes and people who were more than ready to throw granny under the bus at the start of Covid because they were inconvenienced has gotta be pretty close to a single circle in the Venn Diagram so that thought might not be too far off for some...
 

The Rogue Wolf

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I mean, I don't remember ever seeing a street painted to honor straigtness, but I could be wrong.
Yeah, so here's the thing about being in the majority: Everything celebrates you. Just look around at advertisements and see conventionally-attractive straight white couples pictured every Valentine's Day, traditional Midwest families during Christmas, and so on. And you get used to that- so used to it, that anything which celebrates something outside the majority starts feeling like an attack. And some people respond violently to that "attack."

This isn't an even playing field, not by a long shot. When was the last time a major political or media figure started screaming that you were less than human for being straight?
 

Buyetyen

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Cool, lets apply this standard universally, to all claims of self-identification, and require official verification and consistent standards be met, as opposed to having people come up with fantasy tumblr shit and ask us to larp along at the penalty of social destruction.
Cool story. Five families have to bury a loved one. Read the room.
 
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SilentPony

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Ah yes, the "true" horror of this slaughter. The "souls" of the dead. They didn't accept some weird magical compact with a 2000 year old dead carpenter of the Triune God, so their souls are burning in a lake of fire for the sin of...liking dick.
Seriously, why is it okay to say this shit? I get freedom of religion, but we also have freedom to be a flat earther, but we all point and laugh and they're ostracized from society. Yet when some loony lawyer starts spouting horror stories from some desert nomadic tribe book of "don't fuck your daughter or the camel dipshit", we all have to go "Yeah I never thought of it like that".
 
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The Rogue Wolf

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Ah yes, the "true" horror of this slaughter. The "souls" of the dead. They didn't accept some weird magical compact with a 2000 year old dead carpenter of the Triune God, so their souls are burning in a lake of fire for the sin of...liking dick.
Seriously, why is it okay to say this shit? I get freedom of religion, but we also have freedom to be a flat earther, but we all point and laugh and they're ostracized from society. Yet when some loony lawyer starts spouting horror stories from some desert nomadic tribe book of "don't fuck your daughter or the camel dipshit", we all have to go "Yeah I never thought of it like that".
"They deserve to suffer and die for the heinous crime of not wanting to be just like me. Don't they know how perfect I am and how much God loves me?"
 
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Buyetyen

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Seriously, why is it okay to say this shit? I get freedom of religion, but we also have freedom to be a flat earther, but we all point and laugh and they're ostracized from society. Yet when some loony lawyer starts spouting horror stories from some desert nomadic tribe book of "don't fuck your daughter or the camel dipshit", we all have to go "Yeah I never thought of it like that".
The burden of diplomacy, civility and decency is constantly put on the left because we no longer expect anything like it from the right.
 

Cheetodust

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The burden of diplomacy, civility and decency is constantly put on the left because we no longer expect anything like it from the right.
Christians/Conservatives hate queer people for being queer. We hate them for hating queer people. They want us to stop being queer. We want them to stop spreading hate about queer people. Anyone who wants to pretend these things are equivalent or that we're the ones not respecting people's views can get fucked.
 

SilentPony

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Christians/Conservatives hate queer people for being queer. We hate them for hating queer people. They want us to stop being queer. We want them to stop spreading hate about queer people. Anyone who wants to pretend these things are equivalent or that we're the ones not respecting people's views can get fucked.
That's what I hate about people who want to compromise and meet in the middle. On one end, trans and gay people shouldn't be allowed to exist and must face mandatory state sponsored torture to "fix" them. On the other end, LGBTQ+ rights are human rights, yay rights!
Now lets compromise and meet in the middle. LGBTQ+ are allowed to exist, but maybe they can't vote. Or can't own property. Or must register with the state.
The two parties are too far apart to ever reach compromises anymore. There is no middle ground, no shared beliefs or values.