Halo 4 Sexism Earns You a Lifetime Ban

[gmaverick019_v1legacy]

Honestly in my perfect scenario it would work like this: There is an option in the match maker. You pick total rash talk or no trash talk. You are then in two separate match makers. One can be an an anarchy where abuse over microphone is totally acceptable. Another can have stricter but clearly outlined rules where abuse is punished with banning from that separate match maker made for people who want a different atmosphere of play. Banned people are welcome in the anarchy match maker. That to me seems ideal. I feel that encompasses the best of both worlds but is definitely not the most efficient in terms of coding and match making."

Abuse is not good, but trash talking is not abuse. If you want to have a special server for people who cannot handle interaction in the gaming community, fine. I would rather not have to play with these people anyway.

while I would love for this to happen, i sincerely doubt 343 will implement this.

And I agree, I would rather not play with the Politically correct brigade that had their spine removed and instead a pipe stuck up their ass, I'd much rather play with people who have the opposite. (I don't even use the mic or anything, but it would just irk me regardless)

 

[Seagoon]

This has got to be the greatest thing I've read all week!

 

[Bashfluff]

I do not think that trash talk should be so looked down upon in that community because it's a part of gaming culture. Trash talk is common. Trash talk is something that is part of the fun.

Define "trash talk" here. From my experience it's usually just unimaginative insults directed at the opposing team by butthurt players who were just killed. That's certainly common, but it's not fun and shouldn't be part of gaming culture.

Banter, essentially.

 

[Use_Imagination_here]

I hope this doesn't infringe upon my frequent habit of trashtalking the opposing team.

It's a Halo past-time, for God's sake!

As long as it isn't discriminatory trash talk I think. But does that mean you're not allowed to call the faggots faggots? (I mean faggots as in assholes, not gay people)

 

[Traun]

You just know that this will either end in:
a) Completely ineffective, nothing changes
b) Over the top, you see female users threatening that they'll report you for sexism for everything from not paying enough attention to them to constantly killing them.

 

[Reginald]

I do not think that trash talk should be so looked down upon in that community because it's a part of gaming culture. Trash talk is common. Trash talk is something that is part of the fun.

Define "trash talk" here. From my experience it's usually just unimaginative insults directed at the opposing team by butthurt players who were just killed. That's certainly common, but it's not fun and shouldn't be part of gaming culture.

I, for one, greatly enjoy trading petty insults with strangers. A huge part of the sporting ethic of Australia is based around being an utter tosser, so that partially influences my feelings. There's nothing wrong with people being a bit cheeky, I don't think. I enjoy a bit of cheek. If I wear pink armour with love hearts, people should be allowed to call my a fag, either playfully or angrily, which is even funnier. It adds to the atmosphere of the match. If I'm in a situation where nobody can call me a fag, I get uncomfortable, because I know they're being repressed.

I hope this doesn't infringe upon my frequent habit of trashtalking the opposing team.

It's a Halo past-time, for God's sake!

As long as it isn't discriminatory trash talk I think. But does that mean you're not allowed to call the faggots faggots? (I mean faggots as in assholes, not gay people)

If they're faggin' around, it' your duty. If nobody tells them, they might never find out.

 

[The Lunatic]

I think protection of your own sense of being offended is rather down to the individual, If you go onto Xbox Live and expect not to find people being... Awful teenagers, then, frankly, you're just being stupid.

Does this mean we should allow everything? No, not really.

But, you can't say that the tools to avoid such things aren't already there.

 

[simple64]

I hope this doesn't infringe upon my frequent habit of trashtalking the opposing team.

It's a Halo past-time, for God's sake!

As long as it isn't discriminatory trash talk I think. But does that mean you're not allowed to call the faggots faggots? (I mean faggots as in assholes, not gay people)

And that's the issue right here. ****** doesn't mean asshole. ****** has a set meaning, which is well known as a gay slur. In a local setting with your friends, sure, any word can mean anything. However, how should we determine, especially online, if you're not simply being homophobic? By context? Like that'll help. That is why such language isn't even allowed. You are not playing with your friends. If you are, use that word till your hearts content; after all, you'll only getting in trouble if somebody reports.

But if your playing with strangers, well, not everybody subscribes to your definition of what ****** means. Most people will go by what it normally means; a gay slur.

N*****, F***** (funny I censor it now, I've type it like, three times already), and such words may have different local meanings, but at large, they have set definitions that are well known by most, and they are slurs.

If you want to call them an asshole, call them that.

 

[Giftfromme]

You just know that this will either end in:
a) Completely ineffective, nothing changes
b) Over the top, you see female users threatening that they'll report you for sexism for everything from not paying enough attention to them to constantly killing them.

You're not paying enough attention to my avatar!!! I'm reporting you to the mods!!

somehow I don't see that as a likely scenario lol

 

[Bashfluff]

I hope this doesn't infringe upon my frequent habit of trashtalking the opposing team.

It's a Halo past-time, for God's sake!

As long as it isn't discriminatory trash talk I think. But does that mean you're not allowed to call the faggots faggots? (I mean faggots as in assholes, not gay people)

And that's the issue right here. ****** doesn't mean asshole. ****** has a set meaning, which is well known as a gay slur. In a local setting with your friends, sure, any word can mean anything. However, how should we determine, especially online, if you're not simply being homophobic? By context? Like that'll help. That is why such language isn't even allowed. You are not playing with your friends. If you are, use that word till your hearts content; after all, you'll only getting in trouble if somebody reports.

But if your playing with strangers, well, not everybody subscribes to your definition of what ****** means. Most people will go by what it normally means; a gay slur.

N*****, F***** (funny I censor it now, I've type it like, three times already), and such words may have different local meanings, but at large, they have set definitions that are well known by most, and they are slurs.

If you want to call them an asshole, call them that.

Context is an important part of the English language, and I'm not ignoring that for your silly sensitivities.

 

[Traun]

somehow I don't see that as a likely scenario lol

Why? Are you saying people will NOT abuse power when they are given?

B) Assumes that they don't look into accusations of bad behavior and just automatically ban anyone who is reported. I don't use XBOX Live but I doubt that's the case.

Because they won't, as lovely as it is to assume that they'll spend the resources needed to check fairly thousands upon thousands of daily complaints, they won't. In a perfect world - yes, we're not living in one.

Someone said that this was all a marketing ploy and that 343 has no power to enforce stricter rules, only Microsoft does. Is this true?

Yes and no. A third party can't ban you from Xbox Live, however 343 are directly owned by Microsoft.

 

[Insanely Asinine]

I do not think that trash talk should be so looked down upon in that community because it's a part of gaming culture. Trash talk is common. Trash talk is something that is part of the fun.

Define "trash talk" here. From my experience it's usually just unimaginative insults directed at the opposing team by butthurt players who were just killed. That's certainly common, but it's not fun and shouldn't be part of gaming culture.

I like to think it means you can act like an asshole to someone to lower moral. Meaning they might rage quit or get distracted and make it easier to win. At least that is my thoughts on it.

 

[Erttheking]

Sure am. Hope you're not feeling harassed.

I missed no point. You're using the set of rules to justify the set of rules.

It is a flavor of the year issue. I already said that there is a problem behind it, but it's being made way too big a deal for the problem that's there, and this is precisely because of it being this easy, PC topic that turned a shitload of heads thanks to the Sarkeesian lady.

If people want to play their games, banning them for a while will stick. If people want to talk online, muting them for a while (or permanently), will stick. I want you to tell me where you get off assuming that nothing short of a permaban will get people to behave better.

Yeah, yeah, everybody checks the reports, including this site. Doesn't mean people don't get banned for bad reasons.

Structure your post. I already said you're making it hard for me to take you seriously. I'm not going to read another wall of text like this.

Are you just trying to be insulting?

Would you like to point out exactly what is wrong with the code of conduct and it being enforced?

A lot of people are focusing on it at the moment this year...and how does this make bad for developers to take steps to get rid of it?

Because like I said, this has gone unopposed for around a decade now, and banning people for awhile would make them behave, I don't think that the Escapist would ever need to resort to using permeant bans. I mean look at me, look at my profile. I've gotten so many infractions that one more will land me a permanent ban, I've misbehaved to the point where the moderators are saying "ok, we're not going to take this anymore, one more toe out of line and you're off the website for good" and you know what? I'm watching my temper and making sure that I'm polite now, but it didn't really sink in until the Sword of Damocles of permanent banning was hung over my head. So I guess you could say I'm speaking from experience that you need big guns to get people to fall into line. It doesn't help that XBL is way worse than the Escapist.

Every system ever is vulnerable to abuse, old ones, current ones and new ones, we can't be afraid of moving forward because the new system isn't going to be 100% perfect, because no system is perfect.

Not on purpose, no. It just comes out that way.

I did. It's insane and it's pandering.

Did I say it's bad to try and get rid of a problem? A problem which I've even acknowledged twice now? No. Stop putting words in my mouth, and reread what I wrote.

Wait wait. You're going to talk about just how the Escapist punishment system works, and you're still incapable of comparing the two and seeing what I mean?

Spoiler

People don't get banned on first offense here. And they don't get banned permanently the first couple of times they actually do get banned. And as somewhat of a side note, people aren't required to pay money to visit.

And that is why you don't have a knuckle-head approach towards moderating. You don't fucking ban people permanently on first offense, at the very least because there might be an error in judgment, but also because the issue you're talking about may not necessarily call for it.

Ugh! I cannot believe people are seriously spouting the "free speech" thing AGAIN!

Listen up, freedom of speech gives you the right to SPEAK! It protects you from exactly ZERO consequences of said speaking, and hateful things ARE NOT PROTECTED! My god, why does every one seem to forget this!?

Get used to it. They also seem to think that private companies on private property are required by law to abide by it and aren't, you know, allowed to deny service when you break their rules.

Someone done fucked the quote up. That ain't me.

Well good...I think

I highly disagree. Sexism on XBL has gotten to the point where many women are uncomfortable with going on and plugging in their mikes when they do so, if this solution is "pandering" to them, I have no problem with it.

I seem to recall your first post said that permanent bans shouldn't be required at all. I flat out said that a debate could be held for a three strike system. However, one could also make an argument that these people have been breaking the rules so many times that if they had been under a system like the Escapist, they would've been under their 20th infraction by now. Also I don't see how people pay for XBL should make it so that they're immune to permanent bans, and as I pointed out before, despite the various warnings that I received, I continued to misbehave until I worked my way towards the end of my health bar and only then did I stop. I don't really think that warnings work to the same degree as the threat of a permeant ban. Also if you're worried about an error in judgement, I would like to point out that I posted a video earlier in the thread that explains how XBL moderation works, in that they go over every report and they never auto-ban someone.

 

[simple64]

I hope this doesn't infringe upon my frequent habit of trashtalking the opposing team.

It's a Halo past-time, for God's sake!

As long as it isn't discriminatory trash talk I think. But does that mean you're not allowed to call the faggots faggots? (I mean faggots as in assholes, not gay people)

And that's the issue right here. ****** doesn't mean asshole. ****** has a set meaning, which is well known as a gay slur. In a local setting with your friends, sure, any word can mean anything. However, how should we determine, especially online, if you're not simply being homophobic? By context? Like that'll help. That is why such language isn't even allowed. You are not playing with your friends. If you are, use that word till your hearts content; after all, you'll only getting in trouble if somebody reports.

But if your playing with strangers, well, not everybody subscribes to your definition of what ****** means. Most people will go by what it normally means; a gay slur.

N*****, F***** (funny I censor it now, I've type it like, three times already), and such words may have different local meanings, but at large, they have set definitions that are well known by most, and they are slurs.

If you want to call them an asshole, call them that.

Context is an important part of the English language, and I'm not ignoring that for your silly sensitivities.

Then don't, and get yourself banned. Makes things easier for us. If not having to put up with assholes and trolls makes me sensitive, no problem, I guess I've found the right environment.

It is very difficult to decide context in regards to online play. That is why those rules are there in the first place. They aren't going to look at this case, say "well, in this case, he said fag (which is a gay slur and is banned as per our agreed upon ToS) as a taunt to random strangers, I'm sure that in this particular time, it means something that this guy made up". They don't waste time reviewing the exact particulars, as it is solely up to them to judge context.

Problem with people like you is that you tend to think that online interactions are the same as real life, which is why there are so many stupid comparisons. Context is much easier (though still with a degree of difficulty) to determine face-to-face. Online...well, there's a reason flame wars start. And one's person's friendly taunt is someone else sore topic. ****** is universally known as a gay slur, and you know that. Stop expecting everyone else to get your improvised meaning, expect the fact that online, with internet anonymity, things can very quickly degenerate into something ugly. There's a reason Live is known as a cesspool of 12 year old $#@!talkers.

Incidentally, to prove my point, you assume that everyone not agreeing with you is "overtly sensitive". It's quite possible that we may be complete jerks with our friends, and laugh at all sorts of jokes. However, on an anonymous online field, one may feel that it goes beyond funny, since we cannot sense context as easily. Since all you know of any one of us are little forum posts, that is as far of an idea of the kind of people we are, and you can immediately stereotype us to a category, the same way we can do of you. That is why internet interactions don't flow the same.

 

[Muspelheim]

What? Making the community accountable for the way it acts? HERESY!!! How dare they?! It's breaching my rights of free speech, damnit!

I suppose just dealing with it and start acting properly is too much to ask. Honestly, it's not that hard. Just pretend that even on the internet, someone can and will reach a hand in through your screen and smack you if you're being a tit.

 

[JokerboyJordan]

Frankly I wouldn't want to be the one making fun of a woman called Kiki Wolfkill , but maybe that's just me.

This is both a good and a bad thing in my opinion.
Whilst yes, I think it's terrible that the community is so steeped in sexism, and whilst I'd love to have more female players feel, what's the word, safer? More Secure? I don't think zero tolerance is the way.

As others have suggested, I'd prefer a 3-strike ruling perhaps, but not this.
Whilst I am not guilty of sexist slurs, I'll admit to other trash talking, although it was never serious.

And yes, I use the word "rape" too much, but I won't get much into that issue.