Halo needs to move away from Spartans if it wants to survive
- Thread starter Dansen
- Start date
I think they should do a 3-way campaign:
Spartan: Your basic Halo experience, run, jump, hit, shoot, throw, bang, etc. etc. What the diehards want.
Elite Spec-ops (possibly the/an Arbiter): More of what you'd expect from a Spec-ops team: go in quiet, hit hard and fast, move on. More focus on the stealth part (most every Halo game tried this approach in one or two levels, but it always dissolved into just another massacre). Maybe a Predator-esque approach.
Forerunner: From what I read in Cryptum, I REALLY want to play as one. They've even got an awesome plot-supported way to do so: memory-emersion. The main character in Cryptum gains the memories of an experienced warrior, and he goes into a flashback sequence during one of their fights. We'll enter such a sequence and fight 100,000 years ago as a Forerunner. Bigger explosions, more damage, larger-scale battles.
Spartan: Your basic Halo experience, run, jump, hit, shoot, throw, bang, etc. etc. What the diehards want.
Elite Spec-ops (possibly the/an Arbiter): More of what you'd expect from a Spec-ops team: go in quiet, hit hard and fast, move on. More focus on the stealth part (most every Halo game tried this approach in one or two levels, but it always dissolved into just another massacre). Maybe a Predator-esque approach.
Forerunner: From what I read in Cryptum, I REALLY want to play as one. They've even got an awesome plot-supported way to do so: memory-emersion. The main character in Cryptum gains the memories of an experienced warrior, and he goes into a flashback sequence during one of their fights. We'll enter such a sequence and fight 100,000 years ago as a Forerunner. Bigger explosions, more damage, larger-scale battles.
Mission 1: Die as soon as you encounter an Elite.hiks89 said:
Mission 2: Drive your Warthog into a wall.
Mission 3: Be infected by the flood.
Mission 4: Hide whilst the Spartan does everything for you.
There is a reason why the Halo universe created the Spartan program, and a reason why you play as a Spartan (ODST just made you a weaker Spartan as if it had been kept within canon you would have again been killed immediatley as ODST armour does not have any from of shielding).
The reason is that the Spartans are the only force capable of being able to fight the masses of the Covanant without being decimated, and the Spartans are the only soldiers (other than the covanant) who have technology that allows their energy sheild to recharge (Thus allowing the game to retain a level of plausibility as to why they can regenerate health unlike other games that attempt to show the battlefield of modern warfare)
In short, A Halo game as Marines would fail unless they back out of the canon already created in the expanded universe of Halo.
I want something like... Star Wars Battlefront, but with Halo. And what the hell, I'm just going to put my idea out there, because why the hell not.
If you're Covenant, you could play as any of their race, but only so many of the better ones on the battlefield at once, like the Sangheili or the Hunters or whatever, everyone else has to play as a Jackal or a Grunt or somethin'.
If you're UNSC, you obviously can only play as a human, but you spawn with different loadouts, and you can only have so many guys with the better weapons, everyone else gets an MA5B and a pistol, and maybe you can have -one- Spartan on the field at a time if your team's doing well, or something.
Option to have big maps requiring the infantry to use Pelicans or Spirits to get around, airstrikes, artillery, et cetera et cetera.
See, that would be a lot of fun. At least, -I- think it would be a lot of fun. Maybe I'm just stupid like that. But yeah, making the Spartans not really key to the whole thing kind of makes the game and such a bit more interesting.
If you're Covenant, you could play as any of their race, but only so many of the better ones on the battlefield at once, like the Sangheili or the Hunters or whatever, everyone else has to play as a Jackal or a Grunt or somethin'.
If you're UNSC, you obviously can only play as a human, but you spawn with different loadouts, and you can only have so many guys with the better weapons, everyone else gets an MA5B and a pistol, and maybe you can have -one- Spartan on the field at a time if your team's doing well, or something.
Option to have big maps requiring the infantry to use Pelicans or Spirits to get around, airstrikes, artillery, et cetera et cetera.
See, that would be a lot of fun. At least, -I- think it would be a lot of fun. Maybe I'm just stupid like that. But yeah, making the Spartans not really key to the whole thing kind of makes the game and such a bit more interesting.
I get that the fluff Spartans are far more powerful, but then again, Space Marine managed just fine with the three Space Marines taking on a horde of Orks.Compatriot Block said:
Nope. I haven't read anything relating to Halo. I don't need to. I'm not basing my statements off anything in the books. All I am saying is that in the game Halo: Reach, the Spartans are underpowered wastes of suicidal space, essentially regular guys and gals with cool suits.gmaverick019 said:
I don't mean to incite a flame war. I loved Halo: Combat Evolved (and I suppose the other two were pretty good as well). Halo: Reach (the game), on the other hand, was not good.
And if the Spartans are so OP in the Novels, why aren't they in the game? I mean, it's not like they aren't already (how many Covenant has the Master Chief killed through three games? A few hundred thousand?), but Halo: Reach made them more into humans with cool armor than enhanced super-soldiers. The inclusion of the reticle-expansion when firing basically screwed them in the shooting department (e.g. any bullet after the first exiting the muzzle of a Magnum (or DMR, for that matter) instantly making a 90 degree angle turn instead of being anywhere near the target. Aim does not decrease like that, esp. in the hands of a "super-soldier," and by super-soldier I am assuming at least the skills of Navy SEALs, British SAS, or Marine Force Recon). I would like to see some true-to-the-books Spartans in the games.
Personally im not a fan of the halo series, not owning an xbox kinda doesnt help (but ive played them all on friends xboxs), but it seems to me that the plan is to make as many games as they can about master chief shooting stuff (halo 4 anyone?).
Not that im saying a move away from spartans would be nice or maybe even vaguely original now, its not likely to happen now is it?
Not that im saying a move away from spartans would be nice or maybe even vaguely original now, its not likely to happen now is it?
Halo does have a good story. The games, not so much, but the universe is a rich one. That's what gets me so frustrated when Bungie killed everything with 2 and 3. Its just wasted potential. Huge intergalactic war between an armada of alien species against humanity in which we are fighting a losing war for a survival? I'm sorry, but that's awesome and its a shame not much is done to really highlight this.
They don't have to, but the coming story is going to be about Chief. Sure they could focus on the forerunners and the war against the humans, but that is not needed.
They already tried to move away with Spartans with ODST, and it wasn't as popular because ODST are squishy compared to invincible Spartans.
I agree, they really should move away from Spartans, the books do a great job of telling every side as well as the Spartan side, which is why I love them so.
I'd like to see a game where you are the covenant, going from world to world and glassing the fuck out of them.
You could start as a lowly elite and gain rank until you are the one commanding the fleet. Introduce a potential moral dilemma, and the final level could be you assaulting earth, or being part of the fleet that defends it.
...
Brb, I gotta write this down and send it to 343...
Edit: I don't mean you should completely cut Spartans out of future Halo games, but it would be interesting to show the story from a different perspective. ODST deserve more story than 1 game, and the space battles are fucking amazing in the books.
I agree, they really should move away from Spartans, the books do a great job of telling every side as well as the Spartan side, which is why I love them so.
I'd like to see a game where you are the covenant, going from world to world and glassing the fuck out of them.
You could start as a lowly elite and gain rank until you are the one commanding the fleet. Introduce a potential moral dilemma, and the final level could be you assaulting earth, or being part of the fleet that defends it.
...
Brb, I gotta write this down and send it to 343...
Edit: I don't mean you should completely cut Spartans out of future Halo games, but it would be interesting to show the story from a different perspective. ODST deserve more story than 1 game, and the space battles are fucking amazing in the books.
The thing with the Spartans was that halo needed something to grab peoples attention, and to bring in a new fan-base of people to try out there brand new game. The universe is very finely crafted, but the majority of it comes from the expanded universe novels, rather than the actual games. Halo wars was a step in the right direction, try out something new and see what it leads to, as was ODST. But personally, I think that there is room for so much more in the halo universe, there is no mention of any other experiments into super soldiers for example.
How about the ONI try to create a line of super soldiers, unfortunately they decide to do it in the genetic freak line of experimentation. You are sent in to clean it up, while trying out some of the new weapons being tested there.
Or, you play as a squad of humans defending a base and assaulting covenant strongholds, like operation flashpoint, but with aliens.
Or maybe a human planet is glassed and you have to run away from the plasma beams, while fending off the covenant. (kind of like f3ar's fucking run game mode)
a flood centred game where you play as a marine is kind of obvious, but awesome
invisible elite- based stealth game
Or maybe we could just have halo as it is today, but with us seeing it from the covenants point of view.
All just ideas, but if you want to take them, they're free, you know except when 343 sues you obviously
How about the ONI try to create a line of super soldiers, unfortunately they decide to do it in the genetic freak line of experimentation. You are sent in to clean it up, while trying out some of the new weapons being tested there.
Or, you play as a squad of humans defending a base and assaulting covenant strongholds, like operation flashpoint, but with aliens.
Or maybe a human planet is glassed and you have to run away from the plasma beams, while fending off the covenant. (kind of like f3ar's fucking run game mode)
a flood centred game where you play as a marine is kind of obvious, but awesome
invisible elite- based stealth game
Or maybe we could just have halo as it is today, but with us seeing it from the covenants point of view.
All just ideas, but if you want to take them, they're free, you know except when 343 sues you obviously
McNinja said:
You do know thats just gameplay and story segregation right? If your Spartan always dies, always misses etc thats because you suck at the game. In the story Noble team essentially completed their missions perfectly.
Its like me playing Splinter Cell and always getting caught, then complaining to the internet that Sam Fisher is the worst spy ever and that he shouldnt have ever made it out of spy school.
Well actually Spartan III's were the expendable ones, Spartan II's were a huge success in the war, not just for use against the Covenant, but also for morale when word of them got out.Dansen said:
Also that Plasma pistol shot was before they got their upgraded shields and armour, plus in the story plasma weaponry is much, much scarier, as in the plasma pistols and rifles melt skin and do serious burn damage. Its not in the game for obvious reasons
OT: I dunno I really like playing as a Spartan, whether it be Spartan II or III. Thats part of the fun that the Halo series has, is being an essential juggernaut. ODST was really good, but as someone pointed out they arent regular soldiers, theyre pretty much as good as you can get without being a Spartan. That said I would love to see more games like ODST, although in hand with the main series, not instead of.
I found that odd in the books that plasma pistols were so much deadlier, but then I remembered that it is a plasma pistol. That giant blob of plasma that depletes your shields in the game? Yeah, thats a giant blob of ridiculously hot plasma. Its like how in Halo 3, Chief falls to the planet and just locks up his armor, he's fine right?The_Blue_Rider said:McNinja said:
You do know thats just gameplay and story segregation right? If your Spartan always dies, always misses etc thats because you suck at the game. In the story Noble team essentially completed their missions perfectly.
Its like me playing Splinter Cell and always getting caught, then complaining to the internet that Sam Fisher is the worst spy ever and that he shouldnt have ever made it out of spy school.
Well actually Spartan III's were the expendable ones, Spartan II's were a huge success in the war, not just for use against the Covenant, but also for morale when word of them got out.Dansen said:
Also that Plasma pistol shot was before they got their upgraded shields and armour, plus in the story plasma weaponry is much, much scarier, as in the plasma pistols and rifles melt skin and do serious burn damage. Its not in the game for obvious reasons
OT: I dunno I really like playing as a Spartan, whether it be Spartan II or III. Thats part of the fun that the Halo series has, is being an essential juggernaut. ODST was really good, but as someone pointed out they arent regular soldiers, theyre pretty much as good as you can get without being a Spartan. That said I would love to see more games like ODST, although in hand with the main series, not instead of.
<spoiler=Pertains to the book>Well in the books, the Spartans going to defend reach do the same, and every single one is injured. Whether it is some slight bruising, broken legs, or death, the books do a good job of portraying how crazy it is to fall from orbit. Yet it also tries to make it seem like no big deal, because these are Spartans right?
And I like how you brought up the fact that Spartans are Juggernauts. I think that is the main reason that Halo is so successful. No other FPS has done as good a job as Halo, when it comes to making your main character an unstoppable force of death. The games fall short in showing how badass Spartans are, yet Chief does some pretty damn awesome stuff in the games. In the books, Spartans make Ezio look like a fumbling mook, make Kratos look like a pacifist, and make real life Special Forces look like children.
I would love more games with the ODST that featured a Spartan on the sidelines (maybe a few Spartans), but the game is primarily about the ODST. It would be cool to go show how competitive the ODST are with the Spartans, in more depth and detail.
Well I suppose you could handwave chiefs one by saying that his Mark VI MJOLNIR armour was much, much tougher due to it being a new model, and also that he was riding on a detached piece of covenant ship?Torrasque said:
Not saying that its a good explanation but its better than nothing?
Not completely.
If you know the lore and history of the Spartans, they're anything but boring. The Halo franchise NEEDS Spartans, or more specifically, it needs John 117 (Master Chief), as it is KNOWN for him and the other Spartans.
BUT.
The extended universe has such a large amount of amazing subjects and characters that are just as, if not more than, interesting than the Spartans.
So, I'd say it needs more spinoffs. Not half-assed games, either, games with the quality we've come to expect from the main franchi... hm, actually, on second thought, better than that...
Anyways, yeah. I partially agree, partially disagree. Halo without Spartans would feel wrong. But the series needs to have other viewpoints.
More playable Covenant, pls.
If you know the lore and history of the Spartans, they're anything but boring. The Halo franchise NEEDS Spartans, or more specifically, it needs John 117 (Master Chief), as it is KNOWN for him and the other Spartans.
BUT.
The extended universe has such a large amount of amazing subjects and characters that are just as, if not more than, interesting than the Spartans.
So, I'd say it needs more spinoffs. Not half-assed games, either, games with the quality we've come to expect from the main franchi... hm, actually, on second thought, better than that...
Anyways, yeah. I partially agree, partially disagree. Halo without Spartans would feel wrong. But the series needs to have other viewpoints.
More playable Covenant, pls.
if it was true to the book spartans, they'd be sprinting 50 mph without making a single sound while literally destroying covenant by the dozens without missing a single bullet, not to mention they use so much damn covenant stuff to give them a taste of their own medicine it ain't even funny.McNinja said:
like i said they don't want to make it to OP of an experience, master chief was far from the best spartan at any particular skill, he was just the "luckiest" if you need a title, and he was a great leader to boot.
that is from halo wars in a cutscene, and that is probably 1/2 of what they are truly capable of (about 45 seconds in is when the spartans start their stuff), and most of the time they conserve a lot to think ahead in case they need something later on. they didn't even break a sweat if that in the cutscene battle.
Valid arguments about the luck vs logic thing aside, he's actually right about the armor. The VI is far more durable than the V, which all of the Spartans were wearing when landing on Reach. The lack of fall damage in Halo 2 and 3? Because of the armor. Trust me, it isn't likely he got out without a scratch, but knowing the Chief, he just soldiers on regardless.Torrasque said:
I agree to some extent with what OP says but really you have to think about it from the characters view. The Spartans are made to be the perfect soldiers raised from childhood for nothing but war. It's not like they go out for a beer or to see their gf/bf after a mission is done. They fight and train(and cryo sleep). The personality traits they have come from bonding with other spartans or their AI conterparts(and random scientists), so of course their going to be bland(look at Universal Soldier, it pretty much the same concept). imo anyway.
PS: if they made a game around Spartan 1337, I'd buy it.
PS: if they made a game around Spartan 1337, I'd buy it.