Halo Wars Demo

Eipok Kruden

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D_987 said:
Eipok Kruden said:
Geo Da Sponge said:
Strangely, the AI seems to cope a lot better using the UNSC, actually making an effort to wipe you out using armies of scorpions. Try playing as the covenant aginst them, it's a fair bit harder. Some balance issues here.
If you actually got a challenge playing as the Covenant, I assume you're new to RTS games. I played as the Covenant on Heroic (I had Legendary before, sorry) and I walked all over the UNSC easily. There was no major resistance, I literally walked all over them. Hell, I got to the point where I controlled all 3 bases and had so many resources that I was just playing around with different units. Spamming as many units as I could, then recalling them and using the cleansing beam to wipe them all out. I did it with elite honor guards, Scarabs, Hunters, Locusts, Jackals, Grunts, Ghosts, Vampires, Wraiths, Banshees, and I even spammed Engineers for kicks. Then I sent Regret at the base and wiped it all out with the cleansing beam. That is NOT what I would call "difficult." If Legendary isn't difficult, I'll be sourly disappointed.
I'm sure it'll be multi-player where this game shines. 3 v 3 over Xbox live =)
Definitely. I'll play through the campaign for the story and then head straight to multiplayer. But I still think the AI needs to be better, there are a ton of people that don't have Gold. They want a challenge too.
 

MalevolentJim

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I must say as an RTS hater i was pleasantly surprised by this demo.Mainly because the controls were so simplistic.And i fail to see a Master Chief anywhere so thats also a good thing.
Might actually buy it.
 

beddo

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Eldritch Warlord said:
Sounds like a lot of insanely CPU intensive stuff that isn't even in high end PC RTS's. And everything not bordering on physically impossible can be attributed to unfamiliarity with the controls and the desire to see things more closely than is useful.
You clearly didn't read my post properly as you haven't presented counter arguments for each aspect. Most of that stuff would not be that intensive if done correctly. In fact there is numerous middleware that has been created to handle it. The games that stand-out are ones that strive for greatness, something Halo Wars has most certainly not done.

beddo said:
Mr. Moose said:
beddo said:
I'm a massive fan of the original Halo. Halo 2 was a bit of a let down, Halo 3, even more so.
Halo was Awesome
Halo 2 was More Awesome
Halo 3 was Awesome, but was ruined because of the hype.
How do you think Halo 2 improved on Halo?

I thought the story and levels were weaker. Though the set pieces were grander it just didn't have the same effect for me. Though I did prefer the multiplayer in Halo 2.

Halo 3 was good but the story really dragged.
Halo 2 improved on the original in every way, especially story. Granted there were more "poor end-game levels" but there were a lot more missions in general.

Halo 3 could have done with a longer story, but it nearly eliminated the poor end-game levels of it's predecessors.

Seriously, these are the strangest reasons to strongly dislike any of these that I've ever heard.[/quote]

If you had read my post properly you would have seen that I liked all three games. Halo is one of my favourite games, given this the other two were a letdown, how you didn't get that is beyond me.

Even if you consider Halo 2 to be an improvement on Halo, as a sequel it didn't have the same effect as a new and exciting FPS. It barely had any more missions, it had 14 'scenes' including the introduction. Most of the end levels were variations on the Library and thoroughly boring.

Halo 2 had an awful story that was poorly implemented. The introduction of the brutes was as jarring as it was ridiculous, the Gravemind was even worse. So many character felt tacked on and the increase in the screen time of the Sargeant along with his cheesy lines were just painful. The cliff hanger ending was flat out irritating, it was on a par with the end of the Matrix Reloaded.

They removed the original pistol and the assault rifle, that was their first mistake. The HUD changes were bad and the removal of actual health and increase shield recharge time altered the underlying gameplay as it was simplified.

The city levels felt like they were a mediocre rip from that generation's spate of urban shooters. They were was uninspired and dull. The return of the library levels was more than unwelcome. They were so repititive and dull. The use of boss charactersintroduced a cliche of the FPS genre that Halo CE had manage to avoid and was so much better for doing so. Many of the subtelties in gameplay that made Halo CE great were ruined in Halo 2.

Halo 3 was just an extension of Halo 2. They still didn't remove the flood or the repititive levels.

Again, it wasn't a bad game but it wasn't a great one.

Halo 2 was a good game but not a great one.

Halo 3 was fun but stupid.
 

beddo

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D_987 said:
beddo said:
Mr. Moose said:
beddo said:
I'm a massive fan of the original Halo. Halo 2 was a bit of a let down, Halo 3, even more so.
Halo was Awesome
Halo 2 was More Awesome
Halo 3 was Awesome, but was ruined because of the hype.
How do you think Halo 2 improved on Halo?

I thought the story and levels were weaker. Though the set pieces were grander it just didn't have the same effect for me. Though I did prefer the multiplayer in Halo 2.

Halo 3 was good but the story really dragged.
Halo 2 improved on the original in every way, especially story. Granted there were more "poor end-game levels" but there were a lot more missions in general.

Halo 3 could have done with a longer story, but it nearly eliminated the poor end-game levels of it's predecessors.



Seriously, these are the strangest reasons to strongly dislike any of these that I've ever heard.
Yeah, sounds like he wants to hate the games for the sake of it.[/quote]

Where on earth do you get the opinion that I hate any of the Halo games? Just becuase they're Halo games doesn't mean that they're above criticism. You are just displaying type A fanboy behaviour.

I have explained what I think the weaknesses of Halo 2 and 3 were in a minimal way, that's not me disliking the games and certainly not for the sake of it. I think Halo CE was one of the best games ever but I think Halo 2 and 2 were massive let downs. Not bad, just not groundbreaking in any way.
 

darthzew

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Downloaded, played, loved! It's awesome and I'm definitely picking up that Limited Edition, if only for that awesome looking patch, which I'm going to use to fix the sleeve of a shirt I ripped.
 

beddo

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Geo Da Sponge said:
beddo said:
When you have Warthogs and infantry units selected and press the Y button, the infantry all throw grenades and the Warthog drives into ram them. It's just a mess and should damage the Warthog but doesn't.
I'd just like to pick you up on this point. They added in the ability to cycle through your units specifically to stop this. If you press Right Trigger while you have a bunch of units selected, you can choose individual unit types. The best use for this is using individual unit abilities.
I did notice that you can do this. I just wish that there was some more variation on tactics based on the units selected.
 

D_987

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beddo said:
I have explained what I think the weaknesses of Halo 2 and 3 were in a minimal way, that's not me disliking the games and certainly not for the sake of it. I think Halo CE was one of the best games ever but I think Halo 2 and 2 were massive let downs. Not bad, just not groundbreaking in any way.
Because you picked a singular part of the games and bitched about them. And me; a Halo fanboy - thats rich - I have only played Halo 3 and didn't even like it.
 

Eldritch Warlord

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beddo said:
Geo Da Sponge said:
beddo said:
When you have Warthogs and infantry units selected and press the Y button, the infantry all throw grenades and the Warthog drives into ram them. It's just a mess and should damage the Warthog but doesn't.
I'd just like to pick you up on this point. They added in the ability to cycle through your units specifically to stop this. If you press Right Trigger while you have a bunch of units selected, you can choose individual unit types. The best use for this is using individual unit abilities.
I did notice that you can do this. I just wish that there was some more variation on tactics based on the units selected.
The tactics are up to you.
 

Geo Da Sponge

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To make a point, whether you think this game is good or not, you can see that some effort has gone into it. It's not like, say, Lord of the Rings: Conquest, which is stitched together out of old ideas in order to haul in the cash. For example, they've bothered with proper cutscenes, which shows that they're at least willing to try.

Eipok Kruden said:
Geo Da Sponge said:
Strangely, the AI seems to cope a lot better using the UNSC, actually making an effort to wipe you out using armies of scorpions. Try playing as the covenant aginst them, it's a fair bit harder. Some balance issues here.
If you actually got a challenge playing as the Covenant, I assume you're new to RTS games. I played as the Covenant on Heroic (I had Legendary before, sorry) and I walked all over the UNSC easily. There was no major resistance, I literally walked all over them. Hell, I got to the point where I controlled all 3 bases and had so many resources that I was just playing around with different units. Spamming as many units as I could, then recalling them and using the cleansing beam to wipe them all out. I did it with elite honor guards, Scarabs, Hunters, Locusts, Jackals, Grunts, Ghosts, Vampires, Wraiths, Banshees, and I even spammed Engineers for kicks. Then I sent Regret at the base and wiped it all out with the cleansing beam. That is NOT what I would call "difficult." If Legendary isn't difficult, I'll be sourly disappointed.
Actually I won playing as the covenant against the UNSC fairly easily, it was just harder than doing it the other way round. I've played some more since typing that original post, so I'd like to reovke it; the AI uses both sides with equal skill (or lack of it), it had more to do with it being my first run as the covenant and I was suprised when the enemy so much as whimpered at me.

Although I would say that Regret is quite overpowered. If you just upgrade him then you can wipe out pretty much any army relatively cheaply using the space laser of doom. Of course, you can't really make any proper judgements of balance before it's been properly tested through the online multiplayer.

Actually I have been playing RTS's for a long time, just a) not very well, b)not against human opponents and c)not very frequently.

beddo said:
Geo Da Sponge said:
I'd just like to pick you up on this point. They added in the ability to cycle through your units specifically to stop this. If you press Right Trigger while you have a bunch of units selected, you can choose individual unit types. The best use for this is using individual unit abilities.
I did notice that you can do this. I just wish that there was some more variation on tactics based on the units selected.
Fair enough. I stand corrected.

D_987 said:
beddo said:
I have explained what I think the weaknesses of Halo 2 and 3 were in a minimal way, that's not me disliking the games and certainly not for the sake of it. I think Halo CE was one of the best games ever but I think Halo 2 and 2 were massive let downs. Not bad, just not groundbreaking in any way.
Because you picked a singular part of the games and bitched about them. And me; a Halo fanboy - thats rich - I have only played Halo 3 and didn't even like it.
He didn't '*****'; he said a couple of thngs in Halo 2 were a bit weaker than in the first one. Bitching would be complaining the game was lame because you had to play as the Arbiter, or whining that it was shit because they changed the combat slightly. All he did was point out something which was a minor flaw in his opinion. That's not bitching, that's barely even complaining. And since when was only disliking two things about the game a sign that you hated it?
 

DannyBoy451

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I found it sorta fun, but not deep enough at all. There's no strategic placement of buildings, no way that I could find to put units into formations, although the graphics were nice.
 

implodingMan

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For anyone who is interested, Gamesradar has an interview with the lead designer of Halo Wars. Its pretty interesting, and he talks about how it was different from making an AOE game and some other stuff as well.

http://www.gamesradar.com/f/exclusive-interview-with-the-lead-designer-of-halo-wars/a-2009020612056103023/p-4
 

blinkgun96

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The Reason I pointed that out is because Everyone is an idiot in saying Bungie wouldnt be any good at making an RTS because they've made two so far, and it doesnt matter because Halo Wars is being made by Ensemble
 

Eipok Kruden

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Geo Da Sponge said:
Actually I won playing as the covenant against the UNSC fairly easily, it was just harder than doing it the other way round. I've played some more since typing that original post, so I'd like to reovke it; the AI uses both sides with equal skill (or lack of it), it had more to do with it being my first run as the covenant and I was suprised when the enemy so much as whimpered at me.

Although I would say that Regret is quite overpowered. If you just upgrade him then you can wipe out pretty much any army relatively cheaply using the space laser of doom. Of course, you can't really make any proper judgements of balance before it's been properly tested through the online multiplayer.
The cleansing beam is actually very balanced. Have you seen how fast it eats up resources? It can wipe out a few tanks, some infantry or it can take down a base's health, but not much else. Unless the covenant have had the entire map to themselves for 20 minutes, just building up resources, it's very balanced. But in that case, the covenant deserve to win anyway. And I kicked the Covenant's ass with the UNSC as well. ODST's are freaking awesome, but I still prefer the Covenant by a long shot.
 

Geo Da Sponge

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Eipok Kruden said:
The cleansing beam is actually very balanced. Have you seen how fast it eats up resources? It can wipe out a few tanks, some infantry or it can take down a base's health, but not much else. Unless the covenant have had the entire map to themselves for 20 minutes, just building up resources, it's very balanced. But in that case, the covenant deserve to win anyway. And I kicked the Covenant's ass with the UNSC as well. ODST's are freaking awesome, but I still prefer the Covenant by a long shot.
I didn't mean that it breaks the overall balance. It just feels overpowered in itself, in that it can rape troops grouped together fairly cheaply. Also because it doesn't require you to plan ahead, you can just use it when it's convenient.

Actually I just remembered about the UNSC bomb which stops special abilities, which levels the playing field somewhat. You're probably right, since you obviously have more experience with Halo Wars in particular and other RTS's in general. That and the fact I suck so I end up using the cleansing beam to get me out of tight corners.

Damn, I need to play the demo some more now to get a better feel for it.
 

Eipok Kruden

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Geo Da Sponge said:
Eipok Kruden said:
The cleansing beam is actually very balanced. Have you seen how fast it eats up resources? It can wipe out a few tanks, some infantry or it can take down a base's health, but not much else. Unless the covenant have had the entire map to themselves for 20 minutes, just building up resources, it's very balanced. But in that case, the covenant deserve to win anyway. And I kicked the Covenant's ass with the UNSC as well. ODST's are freaking awesome, but I still prefer the Covenant by a long shot.
I didn't mean that it breaks the overall balance. It just feels overpowered in itself, in that it can rape troops grouped together fairly cheaply. Also because it doesn't require you to plan ahead, you can just use it when it's convenient.

Actually I just remembered about the UNSC bomb which stops special abilities, which levels the playing field somewhat. You're probably right, since you obviously have more experience with Halo Wars in particular and other RTS's in general. That and the fact I suck so I end up using the cleansing beam to get me out of tight corners.

Damn, I need to play the demo some more now to get a better feel for it.
Yea, you do. The disruption bomb (I think that's what it's called) stops the use of special powers in its vicinity so if you want to protect your base from the cleansing beam to give you time to regroup, just drop the bomb right on top of your base and the Covenant won't be able to use the cleansing beam for quite some time. Also, the UNSC have the MAC Cannon which they can upgrade to fire 4 shots at once. It can nearly destroy a scarab in seconds. It only costs 600 (although it costs close to 2000 to upgrade it to 4 shots, it also requires 2 upgraded reactors which cost 2400 to upgrade both of them) so it's great for tight situations. But you're right, the cleansing beam is great for getting yourself out of tight situations while the MAC Cannon is great for turning the tide of a battle in seconds. Oh, and the disruption bomb prevents any special abilities from being used. Including UNSC abilities. That's no ODST drops, MAC Cannon shots, or repairing. Both factions are incredibly well balanced.
 

KeithA45

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Eldritch Warlord said:
KeithA45 said:
I see your point that it was made specifically for the controller, but my question is this: "Why not release it on the PC as well?"
And just so you know, Ensemble was a wholly owned subsidiary of Microsoft. They had to do whatever Microsoft told them.
D_987 said:
KeithA45 said:
The only thing that comes to mind would be an attempt to push gamers to play RTS games on the 360, and if that's true then they're sacrificing profit for a political move. That's what I was trying to say before that seems just well... the only word I can think of is stupid.
Or maybe Microsoft (who are publishing the game) told them to make it 360 exclusive to sell more Xbox's?
My point exactly. I don't blame Ensemble, I actually think Microsoft is the one pulling the strings, and for the reason you mentioned: to get people to buy more X-Box 360's. I'm not mad or want to make a fuss about it, but I just wish they WOULDN'T think long-term by making anyone who wants to play the game buy a 360 and release it on the PC as well.

Ah well. I'll download the demo tonight.
 

jebussaves88

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curlycrouton said:
Apologies for the rant, but which phenomenal retard decided that this game won't be released on PC? They clearly haven't thought this through.

They're releasing a strategy game exclusively on consoles?! Could this be the worst decision by Ensemble ever? If this was released on the PC I know I'd buy it straight away. The PC is where the overwhelming majority of strategy game sales are made, surely Ensemble know that?

Think about it, is your average Gears of War player going to want to buy Halo Wars? Of course not, they're going to want simplicity, fighting and explosions.

Ensemble, I hate you.
I think some people really need to rethink how they envision the average Gears of War player. just because boozy frat boys can have fun with it doen't mean its totally stupid and that everyone who plays it is dumb. I'm willing to bet this will do reasonably well, and rather than hinder the RTS genre, it will introduce more players to it, who will later indulge in more complex examples of the genre.

As for my thoughts, I liked the demo. I'm looking forward to it more than I am resident Evil 5 now (though I will still aim to pick this up somewhere down the line. The control system was decent, to a point where it felt like no more hassle than playing Battle for Middle Earth on the PC for example. The "local units" and "all units" buttons are a very good idea, and I must say i do like the neatness of the bases (being all locked into one hub). I think this could be good, so bring on the release date (whatever it is)
 

Bradfucius

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The controls work pretty well for being on a console. It's surprisingly easy to use. This is going to be a great game. Although the AI seems to think that during a war, building an army is a bad idea. So the demo is pathetically easy.