Happy Birthday Nintendo! Japanese Developer Turns 125 Today

[VG_Addict]

Nintendo isn't some lowcard jobber, one instance of momentum and they're back in the title picture credible as ever.
Swearing off the world title and going after midcard titles exclusively isn't a smart move by a main event talent...it simply makes no sense.

This again, really? No being a mark isn't ingrained in human genetics as I told you last time. A cadre of guys saying stupid crap on the net about X device proves nothing. This is like me making a claim and than backing it up with youtube comments (which is what your evidence last time amounted to), utterly without merit.

Additionally by that comment "not realize they made the wrong choice" it is clear you're involved in this sides business (well actually I'm going by all your other posts too...but lets go slow with just this one for now)... so who is in the wrong again? They are yes...but you don't get away from it either. If you're going to call other people drones/thralls/marks/fanboys/whatever term you want to paint them as than at least have the good grace to admit you're among that number, even if you are wearing a different coloured tie.
I don't take part in this sides business and couldn't care less if you've undertaken the "choice" of being a PC guy, Xbox guy, or a PlayStation guy, Nintendo guy, Apple guy, or whatever. What I could care less for is folk who'll call others out yet be just as guilty, if not more so.

Yes, if they start making good hardware again they will be firmly back in the game. however, currently they do not. and havent for quite some time. Going software only means they will be able to deliver thier software to all the people they want as they will likely release it on all platforms as they no longer have to hold it hostage to their own. everyone wins.

Defending your choices are basic human psyche. This does not necessarily mean being a mark, however some people do go that far.

Oh, and are you going to go around insulting people you disagree with again? werent you the one calling everyone a heel just last month?

Nintendo will no longer hold their games hostage? Despite the fact that Nintendo rightfully owns their games?

OK, what makes Nintendo's hardware "bad"? The worst you can call it is outdated. Nintendo makes reliable hardware.

 

[Strazdas]

Except if you want to buy any of the many Nintendo products you're forced into buying their console. Nintendo have the most powerful lineup in gaming, they don't need to put their games out on everything. It may well not increase their sales all that much (you telling me Nintendo fans are going without Nintendo products by not buying their hardware?) while forcing them to develop their games for a bunch of systems thereby increasing their costs, and the time it'll take for them to put out games.

Well you give the impression of otherwise considering how you always put it. People who post crap on youtube, or the comment section of an article prove nothing, and besides many of them are pretty much being as they are for the fun of it. Lets put it this way, they are like heel commentators who upon seeing a face get driven through a window by a heel will remark at what a coward the face is for diving through a window to try to escape the heel (obvious blatant lies).
Or to use the other side of the coin due to your bottom remark, a face commentator who'll cry foul at everything a heel does...but when a face does it the victim had it coming/deserved it, or if you have a straight up cheating face (rare) than their cheating and their cheating alone won't get a single cry of condemnation from the commentator.

I wasn't calling everyone a heel last month firstly, and secondly that isn't an insult anyway.

And this first sentence of yours already proves my point of Nintendo needing to go software only.

Nintendo has the most popular pineup in gaming. Or should i say "had". because it no longer is so. as far as their "power" goes, you first have to define what you mean by that word here.

Yes, nintendo fans ARE not buying ninteod hardware - hence the poor WiiU sales.

Once again you are assuming that youtube comments are my source of information while i never claimed such. please stop making these strawmen, thier build quality is very poor.

I have asked you twice to explain what you mean by calling me a heel. you have ignored me the first time and told me "you wouldnt understand" the second time, so i can only assume you are hiding an insult with this. Correct me if im wrong but didnt you also got a warning for calling people heels and marks?

Nintendo will no longer hold their games hostage? Despite the fact that Nintendo rightfully owns their games?

OK, what makes Nintendo's hardware "bad"? The worst you can call it is outdated. Nintendo makes reliable hardware.

Holding games hostage is an expression used when game publisher decides to limit the game to a single platform in order to force people to buy said platform. Nintendo is notorious for this as this is true to almost all of their games.

Nintendo hardware is bad because its pointless. they created a tablet controller and even first party games cant make it usable. tried playing the new mario, god the controller intercepting the view from the screen is terrible especially when you could easily utilize it in a useful way.

 

[Rozalia1]

And this first sentence of yours already proves my point of Nintendo needing to go software only.

Nintendo has the most popular pineup in gaming. Or should i say "had". because it no longer is so. as far as their "power" goes, you first have to define what you mean by that word here.

Yes, nintendo fans ARE not buying ninteod hardware - hence the poor WiiU sales.

Once again you are assuming that youtube comments are my source of information while i never claimed such. please stop making these strawmen, thier build quality is very poor.

I have asked you twice to explain what you mean by calling me a heel. you have ignored me the first time and told me "you wouldnt understand" the second time, so i can only assume you are hiding an insult with this. Correct me if im wrong but didnt you also got a warning for calling people heels and marks?

And what do the second and third say? So instead of addressing the fact that their costs in both money and time would go up in the development of their games for likely no real benefit, you instead post a line that I don't even have to refute as it was already done so in my previous post?

Success is variable, Square Enix can sell millions of games and wallow in failure, others can sell far less than that and be a huge success. Nintendo is successful and their brands have remained consistently over, and that is as Mr Hart would say fact.

Hey now I'm not the one who linked someone to articles and stated the comments on it was some grand piece of evidence. Youtube comments was an example I used, I never stated you got your info from youtube comments. The actuality of it all was me saying to you that your evidence is as credible as youtube comments, as in not at all.

I explained it to you twice (with paragraphs), and I didn't merely tell you that you wouldn't understand the third time no. I told you to PM me what you wanted explained, you kept posting in the thread but never PMed me.
I got warned for making a comment one sentence long there was more but addressed to someone else) that added nothing to the discussion and merely mocked a poster, on reflection I shouldn't have done that and kudos to whoever that was as they actually got me (never again of course). I've been warned several times for people getting the wrong idea yes but I straightened that out thankfully and am making sure to be more...clear.

In no world is heel offensive, and its meaning is easily googleable.

Holding games hostage is an expression used when game publisher decides to limit the game to a single platform in order to force people to buy said platform. Nintendo is notorious for this as this is true to almost all of their games.

Not surprised as I've seen this comment before...but how does that make a single lick of sense. A company buying exclusivity I can at least see where this hostage thing comes into play...but Nintendo hold...their own games hostage?
So the hostage takers are also the hostages? That sounds like a nice plot for a movie, but in the subject at hand is complete poppycock.

Notorious? Let me get this straight, lay this out for me here. Microsoft you've trashed over the course of several threads, mocking them for all the exclusives they've bled. Yet...you trash Nintendo for keeping their exclusives in their safe firm grip?
You can't have it both ways, either insult one or the other on that specific matter.

 

[Strazdas]

And what do the second and third say? So instead of addressing the fact that their costs in both money and time would go up in the development of their games for likely no real benefit, you instead post a line that I don't even have to refute as it was already done so in my previous post?

Success is variable, Square Enix can sell millions of games and wallow in failure, others can sell far less than that and be a huge success. Nintendo is successful and their brands have remained consistently over, and that is as Mr Hart would say fact.

Hey now I'm not the one who linked someone to articles and stated the comments on it was some grand piece of evidence. Youtube comments was an example I used, I never stated you got your info from youtube comments. The actuality of it all was me saying to you that your evidence is as credible as youtube comments, as in not at all.

I explained it to you twice (with paragraphs), and I didn't merely tell you that you wouldn't understand the third time no. I told you to PM me what you wanted explained, you kept posting in the thread but never PMed me.
I got warned for making a comment one sentence long there was more but addressed to someone else) that added nothing to the discussion and merely mocked a poster, on reflection I shouldn't have done that and kudos to whoever that was as they actually got me (never again of course). I've been warned several times for people getting the wrong idea yes but I straightened that out thankfully and am making sure to be more...clear.

In no world is heel offensive, and its meaning is easily googleable.

as was already pointed out in another thread, the costs to port games are incomparable as currently all 3 consoles use x86 architecture which is also what PC uses, thus porting the games are significantly easier than it used to be. there are no big costs involved in making game available on multiple platforms other than bribes for platform holders.

you werent saying that nintendo is sucesfull. you said they were "powerful". I do not dispute that Nintendo was financially sucesful with their games and with thier consoles excepting the last one.

I did not link to any articles to point out at comments here. i think you may have me mixed up with somone here.

there are many definitions of heel [http://www.thefreedictionary.com/heel] but none seem to fit the way you are using them. unless you are literally just calling people feet, in whitch case it is indeed intended as an insult.

We already had the exclusivity debate and it lead nowhere. I did not trash Microsoft for going multiplayform with a few games however, so you once again seems to have me mixed up with somone.

 

[Rozalia1]

as was already pointed out in another thread, the costs to port games are incomparable as currently all 3 consoles use x86 architecture which is also what PC uses, thus porting the games are significantly easier than it used to be. there are no big costs involved in making game available on multiple platforms other than bribes for platform holders.

you werent saying that nintendo is sucesfull. you said they were "powerful". I do not dispute that Nintendo was financially sucesful with their games and with thier consoles excepting the last one.

I did not link to any articles to point out at comments here. i think you may have me mixed up with somone here.

there are many definitions of heel but none seem to fit the way you are using them. unless you are literally just calling people feet, in whitch case it is indeed intended as an insult.

We already had the exclusivity debate and it lead nowhere. I did not trash Microsoft for going multiplayform with a few games however, so you once again seems to have me mixed up with somone.

Except what point is there for Nintendo to do that? You keep missing the important question. Nintendo fans have bought, and will buy their console if they haven't already. Than there are those who have multiple platforms who to get access to the Nintendo games have to get their platform at some point, and due to more than likely having more money will have no problem buying another console.
Nintendo games already sell just fine and maintain their price sometimes essentially forever (don't take this literally please). You think they haven't put together the numbers and work out the potential of going software only?
How many people are seriously chomping at the bits to play Nintendo titles, but are too cheap to ever own a Nintendo platform? Not many I'd say and those people ain't going to bring in the big money for Nintendo anyway.

I said they are a main event talent with the most powerful line up yes. Of course they are successful.
This would be like calling John Cena a failure because he spent three months feuding with a midcarder, utter nonsense.

Could have been someone else not naming names, but as we had that whole human nature thing I'm pretty certain it was you.

So you used google...and didn't see it? Its right in front of you.

That is painting it charitable for yourself. You were debating against exclusives with the point it'd be better for the manufacturers if their games were on every platform which practically anybody will tell you is a load of bunk.
I tend to notice and retain what certain people say on things, but as I don't care to follow up on that its irrelevant in the end.

 

[Strazdas]

Except what point is there for Nintendo to do that? You keep missing the important question. Nintendo fans have bought, and will buy their console if they haven't already. Than there are those who have multiple platforms who to get access to the Nintendo games have to get their platform at some point, and due to more than likely having more money will have no problem buying another console.

except that no, people are not buying WiiU. its sales are abysmal. its the worst selling console even compared to the Xbox Done.

How many people are seriously chomping at the bits to play Nintendo titles, but are too cheap to ever own a Nintendo platform? Not many I'd say and those people ain't going to bring in the big money for Nintendo anyway.

The masses that illegaly emulate nintendo games due to not having access to the game legally seems to disagree.

I said they are a main event talent with the most powerful line up yes. Of course they are successful.

and yet you still failed to explain what you mean by that. "powerful" is meaningless at this point because its indeterminable what you are implying.

That is painting it charitable for yourself. You were debating against exclusives with the point it'd be better for the manufacturers if their games were on every platform which practically anybody will tell you is a load of bunk.

No, it would not be better for manufacturers. nor should we care whats better for manufacturers. Only two things matter here: costumer satisfaction and support of good developers. both win in multiplayform. manufacturers - tough shit maybe they should manufacture better hardware then.

 

[Rozalia1]

except that no, people are not buying WiiU. its sales are abysmal. its the worst selling console even compared to the Xbox Done.

Its outsold the Xbox one at points, but ultimately their mass failure is something that is shouted far and wide by the IGC, and the IGC only. Overblown negativity as always.

The masses that illegaly emulate nintendo games due to not having access to the game legally seems to disagree.

You among that number? I've heard your defense of people being justified in pirating so don't feel forced to hide it...

So a Wii U emulator exists now does it? Checked just in case and it seems only those fake ones exist.
Re-releases of old stuff is not a big enough justification as Nintendo has no issue Re-releasing their old stuff on their platforms and making just as much, likely more than they would if they decided to drop their platform and put it on anything.

and yet you still failed to explain what you mean by that. "powerful" is meaningless at this point because its indeterminable what you are implying.

You need me to tell you that Mario, Zelda, Pokemon are main event talents? How do you not make the connection between lineup and powerful?

No, it would not be better for manufacturers. nor should we care whats better for manufacturers. Only two things matter here: costumer satisfaction and support of good developers. both win in multiplayform. manufacturers - tough shit maybe they should manufacture better hardware then.

I "care". You going to call me a shill for big business like before for seeing things as they are?
They will do what is best for them, if having exclusives is best for them than that is what they will do. They make the decisions and they ain't going to undertake a decision that only hurts them. You can say how good it'll be for the consumer all you like, but ultimately they have the final say and they aren't going to undertake a decision that damages them.
They produce and take care of their customers, you want that same care than become a customer simple as.

Hardware? You really going to shift this out of nowhere towards your other (granted less ludicrous) claim that consoles should strife to be expensive top of the line PCs (that can't be modified save hard-drive) costing £1000+? You know even I tire of constantly having to address these two ridiculous claims of yours over several threads while no one else bothers.

You believe in those two things fine. Than go create a thread about them and sell people on expensive consoles without a single exclusive. If you believe your viewpoints to be strong than that should be no problem for you, right? I can't create that thread as than that could be labeled as me slandering you and your views unfairly so I can only leave it to you. No need to address anything I've posted in the past against it, merely make your case and than allow for the other posters to generate their own beliefs on the matter.

 

[Strazdas]

Its outsold the Xbox one at points, but ultimately their mass failure is something that is shouted far and wide by the IGC, and the IGC only. Overblown negativity as always.

Yes, When Xbox was on sale for a month and WiiU for over a year WooU sold more consoles in that year than Xbox sold in a month. When we compare equal time periods WiiU sold less.

I am not so sure about it being OGC crowd only, as even CEO itself admitted to trouble and cut his own pay.

You among that number? I've heard your defense of people being justified in pirating so don't feel forced to hide it...

So a Wii U emulator exists now does it? Checked just in case and it seems only those fake ones exist.
Re-releases of old stuff is not a big enough justification as Nintendo has no issue Re-releasing their old stuff on their platforms and making just as much, likely more than they would if they decided to drop their platform and put it on anything.

No, as i have stated before i have disliked the Nintendo games that i played and thus have no wish to play them, emulated or not. I also never hid that i am quite knowledgable of piracy and that there are occasions where i do not see it as a bad thing.

WiiU emulator is currently in production as last i heard, but i dont check on it regullary so it may be out now, i dont know.

You need me to tell you that Mario, Zelda, Pokemon are main event talents? How do you not make the connection between lineup and powerful?

So powerful = talented? In this case, being powerful is subjective, as people view talent differently. that does not really make sense.

Nintendo has a popular lineup. Nintendo sells quite a lot. Powerful though, that you still failed to define.

I "care". You going to call me a shill for big business like before for seeing things as they are?

Then your relationship is onesided. they dont.

They will do what is best for them, if having exclusives is best for them than that is what they will do. They make the decisions and they ain't going to undertake a decision that only hurts them. You can say how good it'll be for the consumer all you like, but ultimately they have the final say and they aren't going to undertake a decision that damages them.

You are assuming they are completely objective. they are not - they are humans.

Also if a business is acting in a way that is not good for consumer said business should be shut down. Consumer satisfaction should be the main goal of any business.

Hardware? You really going to shift this out of nowhere towards your other (granted less ludicrous) claim that consoles should strife to be expensive top of the line PCs (that can't be modified save hard-drive) costing £1000+? You know even I tire of constantly having to address these two ridiculous claims of yours over several threads while no one else bothers.

No, i just want them to stop making shit hardware that they sell for twice its worth. You can build much more powerful PC for the same price, no need to pay upwards of 1000 pounds. heck, for that you would be getting the top of the line.

You tire, because you fail to learn. you keep dismissing everything and repeating same nonesense. i would be tired of speaking bullshit too by now, only EA has stamina for that.

 

[Rozalia1]

Yes, When Xbox was on sale for a month and WiiU for over a year WooU sold more consoles in that year than Xbox sold in a month. When we compare equal time periods WiiU sold less.

I am not so sure about it being OGC crowd only, as even CEO itself admitted to trouble and cut his own pay.

Mario Kart.

Most negativity is IGC exclusive. Nintendo are and will be fine, they are in no way doomed.

WiiU emulator is currently in production as last i heard, but i dont check on it regullary so it may be out now, i dont know.

Well in essence they always are in "production" but no there isn't one. The Wii got an emulator quickly due to it essentially being a souped up gamecube. PS3 and 360 don't have serviceable emulators after how many years and you think a Wii U one "could" be out now for all you know.

So powerful = talented? In this case, being powerful is subjective, as people view talent differently. that does not really make sense.

Nintendo has a popular lineup. Nintendo sells quite a lot. Powerful though, that you still failed to define.

What is more powerful Mario or Crysis? Stop taking everything so purposely literally.

Then your relationship is onesided. they dont.

Quotations should give it away that I didn't say that I cared. Come on now.

Also if a business is acting in a way that is not good for consumer said business should be shut down. Consumer satisfaction should be the main goal of any business.

Exclusives are good for their customers something you always purposely miss. You not being a customer are not treated to those exclusives, simple as that.

No, i just want them to stop making shit hardware that they sell for twice its worth. You can build much more powerful PC for the same price, no need to pay upwards of 1000 pounds. heck, for that you would be getting the top of the line.

You tire, because you fail to learn. you keep dismissing everything and repeating same nonesense. i would be tired of speaking bullshit too by now, only EA has stamina for that.

Twice its worth? Isn't the talk whenever a console comes out how much money they are losing on each console? If they were selling consoles for twice their worth than they'd be making bank on every sale, and not having to recoup the loss through software sales.
Not going to accept your invitation for you to present a link from a site that has built a PC with X specs, I don't care and its irrelevant.

Either make a thread on it or drop it. Both your views go against what consoles are, and are practically mad decisions for the companies involved to undertake and there is even history to prove it.
However no matter how many times I tell you, you will dismiss it. So post a thread and invite others to add to that discussion and see how many see expensive exclusiveless consoles as better alternatives to the current model.

 

[VG_Addict]

Its outsold the Xbox one at points, but ultimately their mass failure is something that is shouted far and wide by the IGC, and the IGC only. Overblown negativity as always.

Yes, When Xbox was on sale for a month and WiiU for over a year WooU sold more consoles in that year than Xbox sold in a month. When we compare equal time periods WiiU sold less.

I am not so sure about it being OGC crowd only, as even CEO itself admitted to trouble and cut his own pay.

You among that number? I've heard your defense of people being justified in pirating so don't feel forced to hide it...

So a Wii U emulator exists now does it? Checked just in case and it seems only those fake ones exist.
Re-releases of old stuff is not a big enough justification as Nintendo has no issue Re-releasing their old stuff on their platforms and making just as much, likely more than they would if they decided to drop their platform and put it on anything.

No, as i have stated before i have disliked the Nintendo games that i played and thus have no wish to play them, emulated or not. I also never hid that i am quite knowledgable of piracy and that there are occasions where i do not see it as a bad thing.

WiiU emulator is currently in production as last i heard, but i dont check on it regullary so it may be out now, i dont know.

You need me to tell you that Mario, Zelda, Pokemon are main event talents? How do you not make the connection between lineup and powerful?

So powerful = talented? In this case, being powerful is subjective, as people view talent differently. that does not really make sense.

Nintendo has a popular lineup. Nintendo sells quite a lot. Powerful though, that you still failed to define.

I "care". You going to call me a shill for big business like before for seeing things as they are?

Then your relationship is onesided. they dont.

They will do what is best for them, if having exclusives is best for them than that is what they will do. They make the decisions and they ain't going to undertake a decision that only hurts them. You can say how good it'll be for the consumer all you like, but ultimately they have the final say and they aren't going to undertake a decision that damages them.

You are assuming they are completely objective. they are not - they are humans.

Also if a business is acting in a way that is not good for consumer said business should be shut down. Consumer satisfaction should be the main goal of any business.

Hardware? You really going to shift this out of nowhere towards your other (granted less ludicrous) claim that consoles should strife to be expensive top of the line PCs (that can't be modified save hard-drive) costing £1000+? You know even I tire of constantly having to address these two ridiculous claims of yours over several threads while no one else bothers.

No, i just want them to stop making shit hardware that they sell for twice its worth. You can build much more powerful PC for the same price, no need to pay upwards of 1000 pounds. heck, for that you would be getting the top of the line.

You tire, because you fail to learn. you keep dismissing everything and repeating same nonesense. i would be tired of speaking bullshit too by now, only EA has stamina for that.

Customer satisfaction should be the main goal of any business?

Well, good thing you don't run a business.

No, the main point of a business is, has always been, and always will be to make money. If a business were shut down every time they didn't act in a way that's best for consumers, there wouldn't be any businesses left.

Why should we not care about manufacturers?

 

[Strazdas]

Mario Kart.

Most negativity is IGC exclusive. Nintendo are and will be fine, they are in no way doomed.

Mario kart. what about it? yes, the sales jumped. no, they didnt outsell Xbox even then. in fact it was touted as proof that you cant just release new mario and everyone will start buying your console.

And i never claimed they are doomed?

Well in essence they always are in "production" but no there isn't one. The Wii got an emulator quickly due to it essentially being a souped up gamecube. PS3 and 360 don't have serviceable emulators after how many years and you think a Wii U one "could" be out now for all you know.

the reason PS3 and 360 "dont" have emulators is because their architectural design is very alien to that of PC, which means you have to simulate A LOT of stuff that you cant simply offload to regular CPU. This isnt a problem with current gen consoles. people even managed to port windows apps to Xbox. Also there IS a PS3 emulator. its a bit buggy now and still being fixed, but its "playable" according to those that tried.

What is more powerful Mario or Crysis? Stop taking everything so purposely literally.

I dont know, you still failed to explain what you mean by powerful.

Exclusives are good for their customers something you always purposely miss. You not being a customer are not treated to those exclusives, simple as that.

how exclusives are good to their costumers in comparison to being avialable on all playforms? they get exact same acess to the game. its just that others also get it. unless you mean their egoistical nature gets offended since they cant claim they are the only ones with access. personally i dont think such egoism should be encouraged.

Twice its worth? Isn't the talk whenever a console comes out how much money they are losing on each console? If they were selling consoles for twice their worth than they'd be making bank on every sale, and not having to recoup the loss through software sales.

It used to be. and Consoles used to actually beat high end PCs too. for example 360 at lauch was faster than any consumer grade PC. this is no longer true with current generation though. the consoles are weaker, the news articles kept trying to prove how they actually make a profit on each sale on hardware alone and you can buy twice as powerful PC for same price. things changed this generation....a lot.

Either make a thread on it or drop it. Both your views go against what consoles are, and are practically mad decisions for the companies involved to undertake and there is even history to prove it.
However no matter how many times I tell you, you will dismiss it. So post a thread and invite others to add to that discussion and see how many see expensive exclusiveless consoles as better alternatives to the current model.

I could also tell you to go make your own threat where you talk about how everyone is a heel for not eating all the shit companies throw at us. but i dont, because i believe discussion is important and segregating disagreeing opinions "to their corners" only leads to echo chambers.

Customer satisfaction should be the main goal of any business?

Well, good thing you don't run a business.

No, the main point of a business is, has always been, and always will be to make money. If a business were shut down every time they didn't act in a way that's best for consumers, there wouldn't be any businesses left.

Why should we not care about manufacturers?

Good for who? people who like capitalistic greed of money first perhaps. The main point of business is to make money in capitalistic regime only. we currently live in one, yes. does not mean its perfect (cough, comcast, cough). If business were shut down for not acting with consumers interest in mind they would adopt to act like that. making a living and providing satisfactory service is not mutually exclusive. heck, we got examples like CD Project even in gaming industry.

Why should we care about manufacturers? manufacturers will manufacture what is on demand. they dont care about us, only about what we want to spend money on. they will shift to what we want to spend money on if we change what we want to spend money on. there is no empathy in manufacturing, only providing hardware for money. so why should you be empathic towards them then?

 

[Rozalia1]

Mario kart. what about it? yes, the sales jumped. no, they didnt outsell Xbox even then. in fact it was touted as proof that you cant just release new mario and everyone will start buying your console.

And i never claimed they are doomed?

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/12/31/wii-u-outsells-xbox-one-the-week-before-christmas-according-to-vgchartz/

I can read between the lines.

the reason PS3 and 360 "dont" have emulators is because their architectural design is very alien to that of PC, which means you have to simulate A LOT of stuff that you cant simply offload to regular CPU. This isnt a problem with current gen consoles. people even managed to port windows apps to Xbox. Also there IS a PS3 emulator. its a bit buggy now and still being fixed, but its "playable" according to those that tried.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=_YK1WFZF790

That "demanding" game is apparently the current limit of the PS3 emulator that is in Alpha. No there isn't a PS3 emulator yet in reality. There are 360, one, and PS4 emulators that can't run anything out there too, doesn't mean anything.

I dont know, you still failed to explain what you mean by powerful.

You didn't answer the question.

how exclusives are good to their costumers in comparison to being avialable on all playforms? they get exact same acess to the game. its just that others also get it. unless you mean their egoistical nature gets offended since they cant claim they are the only ones with access. personally i dont think such egoism should be encouraged.

No offence here but do you just not understand business, or are you just yearning for some fantasy land where businesses selflessly give to the consumer out of the kindness of their hearts? Its the way the world works, don't deny how things are, accept them. You can want to change them make no mistake, but do not deny reality as a result.

It used to be. and Consoles used to actually beat high end PCs too. for example 360 at lauch was faster than any consumer grade PC. this is no longer true with current generation though. the consoles are weaker, the news articles kept trying to prove how they actually make a profit on each sale on hardware alone and you can buy twice as powerful PC for same price. things changed this generation....a lot.

And what did that earn the PS3? History proves your views to not be best for business, or for consumers for that matter as the PS3 at launch and for many years showed that expensive powerful hardware isn't what most people want. Make no mistake they'll appreciate any power it does have, but its about the price and of course the games.

Even those articles state a minor profit, which is not twice last I checked unless they are selling next gen consoles for 30 bucks. So you went from "you can get a PC just as powerful as a console for the same price" to "you can get a PC twice as powerful as a console for the same price". Most people raise their eyebrow at the former, so what reaction do you think the latter invokes?

I could also tell you to go make your own threat where you talk about how everyone is a heel for not eating all the shit companies throw at us. but i dont, because i believe discussion is important and segregating disagreeing opinions "to their corners" only leads to echo chambers.

Complete nonsense, you don't even know what that lingo means and you're using it in a way I have never used it. I've never called consumers heels, consumers are the crowd fella they aren't performers. It'd not be a discussion thread anyway, it'd be the equivalent of me going "Business works like this #deal with it".

No you believe in not exposing your views/claims to scrutiny by your peers. Notice how its usually us back and forth? That is because people are faced with a great many posts with loads of text, see our names, and go "nope not bothering". However a thread on those subjects would be a different matter, and you refuse because you know your claims are absurd, and lets be honest...hide ulterior motives, you have after all already admitted your bias on these matters.

I as ever am merely stating how things normally operate, you are the one with the claims. So you are the one who should post a thread to push those claims. The burden is on you and if you are so sure that exclusiveless overly expensive consoles are best for business than you should have a gaggle of people agreeing with you no?

 

[Miles Maldonado]

What has Sony survived? Some ups and downs. What has Microsoft survived? Hard competition and bad marketing choices.

What has Nintendo survived? Two world wars, multiple competitors across generations (of PEOPLE, not consoles), the rise and fall of airships (harr harr), and the Great Depression.

I'm sorry I don't think any WEAPONS OR AUTOMOBILE MANUFACTURERS can claim that, let alone other gaming companies.

Capatcha: No Stinking Badges. Nintendo clearly doesn't need them.

 

[Strazdas]

http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2013/12/31/wii-u-outsells-xbox-one-the-week-before-christmas-according-to-vgchartz/

I can read between the lines.

and here i thought forbes used actual sources instead of vgchartz. since they used a source that is so unreliable most media has banned its usage as a source the article cannot be considered proof.

if you can read between the lines, why are you showing the lack of said ability in this case then?

That "demanding" game is apparently the current limit of the PS3 emulator that is in Alpha. No there isn't a PS3 emulator yet in reality. There are 360, one, and PS4 emulators that can't run anything out there too, doesn't mean anything.

The game demands are irrelevant when it comes to console emulation, since you emulate the whole consoles processing power regardless of whitch part is being used at the moment. so if it can run any game it can run them all in same performance. now, it may not run others because libraries for this one is far simpler and other lbiraries havent been ported, ect, but that i lack info about stating. like i said, i never tried it myself so all i know about this emulator is what i heard from people following its progress.
You dont need Xbox Done and PS4 emulators. they run on same architecture so its much easier to port the game.

You didn't answer the question.

I did. I said i dont know and i explained why i dont know (because you failed to define what you mean by powerful).

No offence here but do you just not understand business, or are you just yearning for some fantasy land where businesses selflessly give to the consumer out of the kindness of their hearts? Its the way the world works, don't deny how things are, accept them. You can want to change them make no mistake, but do not deny reality as a result.

I understand how business work in capitalism. I just dont think thats a good way to run economics and will fight for more society oriented way to do it.

No, i dont have to accept how things work. i rather change them for the better. I know reality full well, hence why you will see me comment about how bad it is done often. on the other hand you seem to actually like this reality, and hence we disagree significantly.

And what did that earn the PS3? History proves your views to not be best for business, or for consumers for that matter as the PS3 at launch and for many years showed that expensive powerful hardware isn't what most people want. Make no mistake they'll appreciate any power it does have, but its about the price and of course the games.

well it turned Xbox brand profitable, so it worked for MS. as far as PS3 goes, they made a mistake in using supercomputer architecture for home console (cell based processor). this turned out badly because game developers didnt want to code for it when they could code for much simpler instruction sets (x86 - PCs and PowerPC - Xbox[footnote]yep, microsoft actually called its xbox instructions "PowerPC", ironically[/footnote]).
Also note how PS3 outdid Xbox in the end once the power discrepency became far more noticable close to the end of the cycle?

No you believe in not exposing your views/claims to scrutiny by your peers. Notice how its usually us back and forth? That is because people are faced with a great many posts with loads of text, see our names, and go "nope not bothering". However a thread on those subjects would be a different matter, and you refuse because you know your claims are absurd, and lets be honest...hide ulterior motives, you have after all already admitted your bias on these matters.

Well im not stopping them from discussing with me. we do post this on an open forum. its up to them whether to scrutinize my claims or not. after all, they dont get paid to do it either.

What has Sony survived? Some ups and downs. What has Microsoft survived? Hard competition and bad marketing choices.

What has Nintendo survived? Two world wars, multiple competitors across generations (of PEOPLE, not consoles), the rise and fall of airships (harr harr), and the Great Depression.

I'm sorry I don't think any WEAPONS OR AUTOMOBILE MANUFACTURERS can claim that, let alone other gaming companies.

Capatcha: No Stinking Badges. Nintendo clearly doesn't need them.

According to a report published by the Bank of Korea on May 14, 2008 investigating 41 countries, there were 5,586 companies older than 200 years. Of these, 3,146 are located in Japan, 837 in Germany, 222 in the Netherlands and 196 in France.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_oldest_companies

Im sorry but if its age that matters than Nintendo is nowhere near the throne. Nintendo doesnt even make the list. for example: Kongō_Gumi operated for over 1400 years (thats not a typo, thats one thousand four hundred years) before being abosrbed into a larger company. how many wars and revolutions do you think it survived?

 

[Rozalia1]

and here i thought forbes used actual sources instead of vgchartz. since they used a source that is so unreliable most media has banned its usage as a source the article cannot be considered proof.

if you can read between the lines, why are you showing the lack of said ability in this case then?

And you think I didn't know your response before you made it? Vgchartz tends to be the only source on these periods at least for a long time, more so if like Microsoft they don't really divulge all that much information.

The game demands are irrelevant when it comes to console emulation, since you emulate the whole consoles processing power regardless of whitch part is being used at the moment. so if it can run any game it can run them all in same performance. now, it may not run others because libraries for this one is far simpler and other lbiraries havent been ported, ect, but that i lack info about stating. like i said, i never tried it myself so all i know about this emulator is what i heard from people following its progress.
You dont need Xbox Done and PS4 emulators. they run on same architecture so its much easier to port the game.

So if you can emulate one game on x perfectly you can emulate them all on x perfectly? Nope.

Xbox should shoot that whole x86 = easy to ribbons, easily enough. You can't just slap a interpreter on your PC and play it as while some parts could be run native yes, there will will be parts that will require to be emulated.
They've taken note of the PSP and Wii examples no doubt and will have acted accordingly.

I did. I said i dont know and i explained why i dont know (because you failed to define what you mean by powerful).

The fact I used Crysis should immediately tell you I'm not talking about graphics, but whatever. Don't want to answer it than whatever its a minor thing ultimately.

I understand how business work in capitalism. I just dont think thats a good way to run economics and will fight for more society oriented way to do it.

No, i dont have to accept how things work. i rather change them for the better. I know reality full well, hence why you will see me comment about how bad it is done often. on the other hand you seem to actually like this reality, and hence we disagree significantly.

To state what you want as being better for companies is simply incorrect. In no world is your suggestions a boon of any kind for them, and they only undertake decisions in their own interest. To state companies should act in the interest of solely the consumer is fantasy land talk.
Unless nationalised and dictated to do so they will never change to be what you want, and that doesn't just go for gaming related companies.

well it turned Xbox brand profitable, so it worked for MS. as far as PS3 goes, they made a mistake in using supercomputer architecture for home console (cell based processor). this turned out badly because game developers didnt want to code for it when they could code for much simpler instruction sets (x86 - PCs and PowerPC - Xbox[1]).
Also note how PS3 outdid Xbox in the end once the power discrepency became far more noticable close to the end of the cycle?

360 didn't have the same cost which is the important detail for consumers.
No, that wasn't the reason the PS3 outdid the 360 in the end. The real reason was vastly reduced pricing, and constant varied exclusives while the 360 dried up.

Well im not stopping them from discussing with me. we do post this on an open forum. its up to them whether to scrutinize my claims or not. after all, they dont get paid to do it either.

Than put your view on expensive exclusiveless consoles up to scrutiny without the shields of another thread, and these great big blocks of text between us. Your constant attempts at dodging only reinforce what I'm saying, however if you want I'll make the thread than on your behave (with your go ahead) as you clearly don't want to.

The body of the thread being:

"Do you think having massively expensive (lets say double the Xbox Ones price) consoles with zero exclusives would be a good thing for Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo? Preferable to their current model."

Yay or nay?

 

[Strazdas]

And you think I didn't know your response before you made it? Vgchartz tends to be the only source on these periods at least for a long time, more so if like Microsoft they don't really divulge all that much information.

you do? are you a mind reader? perhaps time traveler? do you know what this talent would be worth?

So if you can emulate one game on x perfectly you can emulate them all on x perfectly? Nope.

no because thats not how it works and no even if it was. You dont emulate a game. you emulate a console, the hardware, and thne run the games code on it. if you perfectly emulated the hardware then you could run any game that can run on said hardware the same way. now, perfect emulation takes MASSIVE amounts of CPU power, so emulation for everything but the very simplest hardware is done by approximation, which is far form perfect but usually "close enough" that you can easily play the game.

Xbox should shoot that whole x86 = easy to ribbons, easily enough. You can't just slap a interpreter on your PC and play it as while some parts could be run native yes, there will will be parts that will require to be emulated.
They've taken note of the PSP and Wii examples no doubt and will have acted accordingly.

Erm, Xbox uses standard PC architecture, it uses tablet CPU, you CAN just slap the correct libraries in and run it. they are using the same instruction set hardware. Of course, without microsoft releasing said libraries using them would be illegal, but that is a legal barrier, not a technological one.

The fact I used Crysis should immediately tell you I'm not talking about graphics, but whatever. Don't want to answer it than whatever its a minor thing ultimately.

Its not that i do not want to answer, its that i cannot answer without understanding the question.

"Do you think having massively expensive (lets say double the Xbox Ones price) consoles with zero exclusives would be a good thing for Sony, Microsoft, Nintendo? Preferable to their current model."

Yay or nay?

I dont care if you create ort dont create such a thread, as i never argued what your suggesting to put in the body. You do not need to double the Xbox price to increase power. for Xbox price you can get double the power if you use the correct parts, even with consumer prices that are above that of bulk buying manufacturer prices. If you really want to make a thread for me it should read as follows: Do you think having competetive hardware in a console while releasing games on all platforms would be beneficial to gamers?

 

[Rozalia1]

you do? are you a mind reader? perhaps time traveler? do you know what this talent would be worth?

Of course I know outside that link which you will dismiss automatically I can't provide anything concrete, but can you? Xboxs selling quicker is one thing that can be claimed yes and I never disputed that, but the Xbox never having a period where it was outsold by the Wii U can you can confirm that with certainty?

no because thats not how it works and no even if it was. You dont emulate a game. you emulate a console, the hardware, and thne run the games code on it. if you perfectly emulated the hardware then you could run any game that can run on said hardware the same way. now, perfect emulation takes MASSIVE amounts of CPU power, so emulation for everything but the very simplest hardware is done by approximation, which is far form perfect but usually "close enough" that you can easily play the game.

How does that in anyway counteract "So if you can emulate one game on x perfectly you can emulate them all on x perfectly? Nope".
The point is you could play say a Mario game on the N64 perfectly, but you wouldn't certain other games (same with the PS2 or any other console really, though replace the Mario example of course).

Erm, Xbox uses standard PC architecture, it uses tablet CPU, you CAN just slap the correct libraries in and run it. they are using the same instruction set hardware. Of course, without microsoft releasing said libraries using them would be illegal, but that is a legal barrier, not a technological one.

Which is why I used it as an example. Now let me get this straight, you've admitted several times you're never sure on these things in regards to emulation, you merely "think" something is the case. However this is 100%, no buddy this is the same exact deal.
Its only a google search away however so why don't you search for that perfect Xbox emulation. Oh wait you won't find one.
The best way to do the Xbox wouldn't be an emulator of course, but no one has done what would be needed to so moot point.

Its not that i do not want to answer, its that i cannot answer without understanding the question.

Name/brand, sales, worth, perseverance, reputation.

I dont care if you create ort dont create such a thread, as i never argued what your suggesting to put in the body. You do not need to double the Xbox price to increase power. for Xbox price you can get double the power if you use the correct parts, even with consumer prices that are above that of bulk buying manufacturer prices. If you really want to make a thread for me it should read as follows: Do you think having competetive hardware in a console while releasing games on all platforms would be beneficial to gamers?

First of all this here is usually what I see linked http://www.extremetech.com/gaming/171158-can-you-build-a-gaming-pc-better-than-the-ps4-for-400 on these matters. That very forgiving article only ever says "For $400, then, you can have a PC with PS4-like performance that?s (probably) capable of playing the same games at similar resolution and detail levels. The PS4 will likely have an advantage because games can be specifically tailored towards the console?s hardware provisions, but good, high-budget PC ports should be almost comparable".
I've tried searching the web and can find no evidence of this $500 machine you speak of... it keeps leading me to Microsoft saying they are going to double the power of the Xbox One with DirectX 12 though. I would have thought you'd have posted the evidence of this, but you haven't oh well.

Very charitable take on your part with that considering you've posted no evidence of such a machine with double the power at the same price.

And what is the price of that competitive hardware? Just what is competitive in specs to a platform that can be constantly upgraded? Should they have a Titan? No wait, two? More? No wait the Titan is old news now so...
So your big suggestion is they should make their consoles more expensive (significantly so don't deny it) while dropping exclusives...when PCs will still be upgradable (thus better ultimately when it comes to specs) and will continue to have their own exclusives (we've had this talk and you're a big supporter of PC exclusives, while a hater of consoles ones lets not forget).
It sounds to me like this is a suggestion mired in your want for the death of consoles, as that is all your suggestion could ever lead to.

I get it that as a PC only gamer that it'd be a dream for such a thing to happen, but as a PC, console, handheld gamer I really couldn't care less about your fantasy. Wanting the downfall of others for such petty selfish reasons is quite honestly repulsive behaviour. How you can talk about the "PC gaming is dead" guys in other threads while holding the views you do is ironic, lets hope the bad karma of that small contingent of PC gaming you're part of doesn't bite back in a big way to the PC platform, I do enjoy the PC exclusives I play so I'd not want that spoiled for me.

No offence of course, you can hold the views you want.

 

[Strazdas]

Of course I know outside that link which you will dismiss automatically I can't provide anything concrete, but can you? Xboxs selling quicker is one thing that can be claimed yes and I never disputed that, but the Xbox never having a period where it was outsold by the Wii U can you can confirm that with certainty?

Im going by MS press releases and other data like EPA one. whether thats certain enough (as in MS isnt lieing and EPA extrapolate correctly) ill leave to you to decide.

How does that in anyway counteract "So if you can emulate one game on x perfectly you can emulate them all on x perfectly? Nope".
The point is you could play say a Mario game on the N64 perfectly, but you wouldn't certain other games (same with the PS2 or any other console really, though replace the Mario example of course).

because thats not even how it works. Thats like saying that if river water is drinkable then so is oceans water because they are both wet and liquid. you dont "emulate games", you "emulate console" and then run the game on it. so if you can perfectly emulate a console (for why you cant i already explained) you could run everything that that console can run.

Which is why I used it as an example. Now let me get this straight, you've admitted several times you're never sure on these things in regards to emulation, you merely "think" something is the case. However this is 100%, no buddy this is the same exact deal.
Its only a google search away however so why don't you search for that perfect Xbox emulation. Oh wait you won't find one.
The best way to do the Xbox wouldn't be an emulator of course, but no one has done what would be needed to so moot point.

I dont participate in emulation scene, i dont emulate games and what i hear about it is only from articles/sources i find by accident. so yes, im not 100% sure.
I however am interested in console technology and have discussed and looked into it, so i have much greater knowledge of it compared to my knowledge on emulation.

Regarding Xbox emulation, whitch one do you mean. the original Xbox has an emulator that runs well as far as i know. The Xbox One does not need one. it would be pointless effort to make one, as the systems are so similar its much easier to just port it. Its no longer a hardware issue here, its the libraries and drivers that create the barrier only.

Name/brand, sales, worth, perseverance, reputation.

It is hard to quantify brand strenght, perseverance and reputation. I do not know these companies well enough to determine whitch one is more "powerful" by accounting to all those things, and i doubt you do too. altrough the financial troubles of Crytek probably brought the company down quite a lot on this scale due to now low "worth" of the company and its abysmal sales of No-long-exlusive Ryse.

I've tried searching the web and can find no evidence of this $500 machine you speak of... it keeps leading me to Microsoft saying they are going to double the power of the Xbox One with DirectX 12 though. I would have thought you'd have posted the evidence of this, but you haven't oh well.

you have explicitly said that youd ignore my links so i didnt post any, and now you complain i didnt. riight.
here is a PC for 444 dollars that is significantly faster than a console: http://www.reddit.com/r/pcmasterrace/wiki/builds#wiki_the_next-gen_crusher

DirectX12. microsoft made many claims, however showed no evidence. from all intents and purposes it will function very much like AMD Mantle technology. and we saw that that only benefited only some specific builds and not even close to doubling their power. ALso worth mentioning that since almost all PC games are DirectX based, any improvement on DirectX will also improve PC gaming accordingly, so there is no closing the gap. However since DirectX is a technology that is not released and we got no technical data whatsoever all we can do is speculate and thats pointless.

And what is the price of that competitive hardware? Just what is competitive in specs to a platform that can be constantly upgraded? Should they have a Titan? No wait, two? More? No wait the Titan is old news now so...

Titan was never competetive. it was heavily overpriced because it was for a long time the only card that had 6GB of Vram. for gaming you were better off with a 780 for less than half the price.

What i meant as competetive hardware is that a hardware that costs a certain amount should benchmark simillary to other hardware of same price. consoles however seem to do worse than PC hardware of same price and when you benchmark them turns out a 5 year old GPU (480gtx) performs better. If your advertising your hardware as being this whole powerful gaming thing and then get outperformed by a 5 year old GPU sorry but your not being competetive.

(we've had this talk and you're a big supporter of PC exclusives, while a hater of consoles ones lets not forget).

Once again, i already proved you wrong on this.

No offence of course, you can hold the views you want.

You could do without the insults then.

 

[Johnny Novgorod]

Happy belated birthday Nintendo and thank you for the SNES.