Hard SciFi in games

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tobe mayr

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Apr 30, 2008
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I just recently saw the much recommended motion picture 'Gravity' This made me aware of a particularly nasty hole in my gaming collection: Space based SciFi, optionally hard sci fi.

You know, not the aliens/galactic civilizations kind of games, but something with actual space ships.

I wonder if there is a market for something more serious.
 

GundamSentinel

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Aug 23, 2009
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While the premise of Kerbal Space Program is silly (basically a bunch of green yes-men sending everything you slap together into space), its execution is quite realistic with a good simulation of orbital mechanics and rocket science.

And yeah, I would like some more hard sci-fi space games.
 

Realitycrash

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Hard Sci-fi in games means..No ray-guns, no FTL, no cybertech, no mutants with superpowers, etc. Not unless you can explain those things with modern (or soon-to-be modern) science. So..Can get rather boring?
 

Llil

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Kerbal Space Program is what you're looking for. It's basically LEGO crossed with rocket science. The scale of the planets and distances is smaller than in reality, but it's a pretty good, easy to get into simulation. At the moment it's just a big sandbox, but a career mode is going to be added eventually. But even as just a sandbox, there is a lot you can do.

It has a free demo if you want to try it out.

There are also more serious simulation games like Orbiter and Take on Mars, but I haven't played them.
 

Nouw

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Realitycrash said:
Hard Sci-fi in games means..No ray-guns, no FTL, no cybertech, no mutants with superpowers, etc. Not unless you can explain those things with modern (or soon-to-be modern) science. So..Can get rather boring?
Hard science fiction doesn't necessarily mean you can't have those aspects. Take Starship Troopers for example, a military hard sci-fi novel about soldiers in mech suits fighting space bugs. Then again, the line between soft and hard has never really been that clear cut for me and I'd imagine it'd be harder to define in the video-game medium. Some say it has to do with the literal sciences it chooses to focus on, others the realism of the science it features.

Doesn't matter in this thread I suppose, I third the Kerbal Space Program a recommendation. My math teacher loves it so there you go :p.
 

Doom972

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Realitycrash said:
Hard Sci-fi in games means..No ray-guns, no FTL, no cybertech, no mutants with superpowers, etc. Not unless you can explain those things with modern (or soon-to-be modern) science. So..Can get rather boring?
That's incorrect. You can still have those things count as hard sci-fi as long as you can give a relatively plausible explanation for them.

Cybertech isn't even fiction since technically a few cyborgs do exists in real life. There are some good articles on the Escapist on that subject.

What seems to be acceptable as hard sci-fi by most, is technology that's based on real-life scientific theories, but can't be done in practice due to certain limitations.
 

Bertylicious

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You know I sometimes wondered whether a sci-fi game set in a near future with different nations just starting out to exploit space, so you're tooling around in literal boot-strap stuff, who have some manner of conflict. It could be called Space War 1 (almost certainly already copyrighted and it's a bit shit, but there you are) with the emphasis being on evading enemey countermeasures & detection, a bit like a submarine game, whilst managing stuff like orbit decay and space garbage.

I imagine it would be a pretty niche offering.

What about some point and click adventures? I seem to remember one set on mars where you were plodding around in a space suit, trying to solve some sort of mystery. Can't remember what it was called though.
 

MammothBlade

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Oct 12, 2011
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Realitycrash said:
Hard Sci-fi in games means..No ray-guns, no FTL, no cybertech, no mutants with superpowers, etc. Not unless you can explain those things with modern (or soon-to-be modern) science. So..Can get rather boring?
Not at all. It's just that these have to be based on more rigorous science. You can have most if not all of these, but they must be based on solid theories and explain them well.
 

shrekfan246

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May 26, 2011
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MammothBlade said:
Doom972 said:
Nouw said:
Of course, then we run across the problem that video games rarely spend any time examining or explaining the logistics behind how their in-universe technology or magic works, and most of the time we're supposed to just take it as read for the sake of our suspension of disbelief.

I don't think most video-game writers would really have the ability to explain those things in a way that remains interesting, either. Video games are very much about providing quick gratification to the player; "Because magic" or "because the future!" are essentially the easiest ways of side-stepping a whole ton of needless exposition or glossary writing.

That's not to say there wouldn't be a market for games that put in that sort of effort, of course. It would almost undoubtedly be a niche genre though.
 

II2

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0x10c anyone?

Who knows why Notch didn't pursue finishing it, so it's a dead project, but might get a resurrection from dedicated fans, or inspire someone to do a similar, hardcore space sim.

Anyway, Star Citizen (kickstarted) is being made on CRYENGINE 3. Probably the first AAA kick starter title, far as I can see and it looks to be happening. While on kickstarter, I hope The Mandate gets funded, it looks good.

As far as stuff that's actively available, there's some good 4X soft sci space games from Stardock: Galactic Civilization 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire.
 

exobook

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For those who are looking for what real life space warfare might be like have a look at I-war/Independence War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-War_(1997_video_game)

Bascally its a rather standard war between earth and rebels, but with Newtonian physics for the flight model. So your spaceship handles like a brick and is barely control able.

While its is interestig it is also rather hard. But it and its sequal is availiable on GOG.
 

Genocidicles

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shrekfan246 said:
Well they don't necessarily have to explain it. "Show don't tell" and all of that.

For example they could show every spaceship in game is equipped with a centrifuge, and when the player is in a module not attached to the centrifuge there would be no gravity, either having the the player character floating around or stomping around on magnetic boots.
 

RicoADF

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Realitycrash said:
Hard Sci-fi in games means..No ray-guns, no FTL, no cybertech, no mutants with superpowers, etc. Not unless you can explain those things with modern (or soon-to-be modern) science. So..Can get rather boring?
Actually warp drive (which is FTL) is theoretically possible, we just haven't been able to do it ourselves. Although as I understand it the system doesn't work like Star Trek etc.
 

Jadak

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II2 said:
0x10c anyone?

Who knows why Notch didn't pursue finishing it, so it's a dead project, but might get a resurrection from dedicated fans, or inspire someone to do a similar, hardcore space sim.

Anyway, Star Citizen (kickstarted) is being made on CRYENGINE 3. Probably the first AAA kick starter title, far as I can see and it looks to be happening. While on kickstarter, I hope The Mandate gets funded, it looks good.

As far as stuff that's actively available, there's some good 4X soft sci space games from Stardock: Galactic Civilization 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire.
I think you missed the point of the post which kind of specified 'not games like those games'.

Nothing wrong with those games, just not at all what he's looking for (and in the gal civ case, explicitly excluded)
 

II2

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Jadak said:
II2 said:
0x10c anyone?

Who knows why Notch didn't pursue finishing it, so it's a dead project, but might get a resurrection from dedicated fans, or inspire someone to do a similar, hardcore space sim.

Anyway, Star Citizen (kickstarted) is being made on CRYENGINE 3. Probably the first AAA kick starter title, far as I can see and it looks to be happening. While on kickstarter, I hope The Mandate gets funded, it looks good.

As far as stuff that's actively available, there's some good 4X soft sci space games from Stardock: Galactic Civilization 2 and Sins of a Solar Empire.
I think you missed the point of the post which kind of specified 'not games like those games'.

Nothing wrong with those games, just not at all what he's looking for (and in the gal civ case, explicitly excluded)
Bah, whatever. I don't play a lot of space ship games. Give me some suggestions then.
 

rcs619

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tobe mayr said:
I just recently saw the much recommended motion picture 'Gravity' This made me aware of a particularly nasty hole in my gaming collection: Space based SciFi, optionally hard sci fi.

You know, not the aliens/galactic civilizations kind of games, but something with actual space ships.

I wonder if there is a market for something more serious.
The main issues with hard sci-fi in games, and in a lot of movies to be honest, are time and visual aesthetics. Space is big, and it takes a long time to get anywhere. For example, let's say we finally invent an inertial compensator and can build a spaceship that could continuously accelerate at 50 gravities, or 491 m/s per second. It would still take 30 minutes to reach the Moon, factoring in having to turnover and decelerate halfway through. At that same speed, it would take 13 hours to get to Mars and 22 hours to get to Jupiter. In a game, you would either need to plan your story out accordingly to where the time in transit is accounted for, or have some sort of time-compression.

The other issue, also related to distance actually, is communication. Space is very big and even light-speed transmissions like communications lasers and radio waves take a long time to get anywhere. Alpha Centauri, the nearest star to Earth is a bit over 4 lightyears away, and you're still talking about communications lags of between 4 and 20 minutes to get a message to Mars, depending on the alignments of the planets. If you want a game, or movie, to involve anything more than a single spaceship or small group of them, you really need to plan things out accordingly. If you want to do hard sci-fi over interplanetary distances, you either need to have ships delivering messages by hand, a form of FTL communications technology, or the ships involved will be totally isolated from any sort of help from Earth. Let's say we did invent a form of FTL comms though, and let's say we could send a message at 3600 times the speed of light. Let's say you wanted to dial up the Eta Cassiopeiae, one of the nearest G-class stars to Earth at about 19.4 lightyears. If you could send a message at a speed of 3600c, it would still take a hair less than 2 days to get there. These are things you really have to factor in, if you want to tell a hard sci-fi story. That's also why a lot of brands, like Star Trek, takes the easy way out and let their people dial up someone's cell-phone on Earth, instantly, from wherever the hell the Klingon home system is, like they did in 'Into Darkness'.

I'd say probably the biggest issue is simple visual aesthetics though. Because of the vast distances, you don't actually *see* a lot in space. Let's say you want to do a game about military stuff in a hard sci-fi setting. The ships would likely be armed with lasers, and probably railguns and/or missiles capable of accelerating their projectiles to c-fractional speeds. Because of that, you probably would not get ships engaging each other at range of less than, say, a light-second, or a little under 300,000km. Unless you handle it right, it is very difficult to convey that sort of conflict in a visual medium, especially when the go-to image for spaceship battles is an Imperial Star Destroyer rolling up to shoot at something 50ft away from it, or the Enterprise rolling and swooping through space, shooting at a ship with phasers. It would be more akin to submarine fights, or modern naval combat where the primary weapons are long-range missiles launched from over the horizon, than it would be to more 'traditional' ship-to-ship combat.

I do like me some hard and semi-hard sci-fi though. I find it extremely interesting to look at future technologies through the lens of what we actually know about space. Instead of just having World War II in space, with ships shooting broadsides at each other from within visual range. Or even more things like 'Gravity' where you're dealing with much less advanced space technology. The fact is, as far as space goes, humans are barely into bi-planes compared to where we need to be to actually do anything of note. The technology is very young, has very hard limits, and there's not a lot of fallback options if something does go truly wrong.
 

GundamSentinel

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Aug 23, 2009
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exobook said:
For those who are looking for what real life space warfare might be like have a look at I-war/Independence War

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I-War_(1997_video_game)

Bascally its a rather standard war between earth and rebels, but with Newtonian physics for the flight model. So your spaceship handles like a brick and is barely control able.

While its is interestig it is also rather hard. But it and its sequal is availiable on GOG.
Ah yeah, I remember that one. Still have an old big-box copy of it lying around. It was a fun game, but hard as nails with a learning curve like a concrete wall.

On the topic of sci-fi hardness, it's really a matter of opinion. I've read sci-fi that has FTL, ray guns, advanced cybernetics and whatnot and that I'd consider squarely in hard sci-fi territory. For me, in short: soft sci-fi actively breaks scientific rules we know, while hard sci-fi sticks to the known rules or might nestle in the 'we just don't know for sure yet'-area of science.

Also relevant:
http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/MohsScaleOfScienceFictionHardness
 

tangoprime

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May 5, 2011
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I really wish there would've been an updated Microsoft Space Simulator at some point, that thing was phenomenal.