Hardcore gaming is dead forever...

[Dexiro]

"Hardcore" is just a label that makes certain gamers feel good about themselves. It doesn't mean a game is particularly difficult or complicated. Half the casual games I've played are twice as difficult as any of this "hardcore" crap.

That said difficult games will always have their market, we're just getting into the habit of including tutorials.

 

[Zacharious-khan]

Should i simply direct you to the Jimquisition to tell you why you are so laughably wrong
http://www.escapistmagazine.com/videos/view/jimquisition/3769-A-Different-Kind-of-Difficulty
now apologize to jim and THANK GOD for him

 

[KingofallCosmos]

I don't mind the term to differentiate between creative games and marketed stuff*., but still... I'm not a hardcore puzzler I think, or reader, or pianist, or tv watcher, but I can do it for hours.

*by which I mean the games made to a mold to make money, more marketing than creativity.

 

[Casual Shinji]

Does this mean hardcore movies and hardcore books are dead, too?

What about hardcore TV shows?

 

[Treblaine]

for a simple reason really, now that video games have become a profitable market, there really is no incentive to make a good hardcore game anymore that really pleases an increasingly niche section of gamers. Every year i see less and less hardcore games coming out( i think the last one i played was Vanquish, and that game wasn't very successful. I don't even want to think about FPS). The fact of the matter is, the people who truly care about video games are greatly outnumbered by casuals, and the gap will only increase. Its even making its way into PC, which for a long time was protected from too much casual entry due to it being somewhat expensive, and not completely easy to pick up, but now even it is becoming more accessible and watered down. This is a serious problem guys we need to consider, but there's not much we can do about it. one day everything's going to be a wagglenoobtubenolearningcurve casual fest, and devs are still going to make millions.


Just my opinion though. what do you guys think?

What the hell do you mean by "hardcore" and "casual"?

Is this not "hardcore" enough for you:


You do realise that the literal definition of the word "Hardcore" means a "niche minority appeal to the most committed with most demanding tastes". Hardcore can - by definition - never be mainstream!

There are plenty of "hardcore" games in that sense:
-Hard Reset
-Dark Souls
-Red orchestra 2
-Shogun 2
-Megicka 2
-Portal 2 (i think the average person would struggle with this game unreasonably)
-Dirt 3
-Gran Turismo 5
-Bioshock 2
-Street fighter 4

Casuals have ALWAYS outnumbered the hardcore. By definition.

 

[Fishyash]

This makes no sense. You can even play mario kart hardcore. You don't need a game to cater to a more hardcore gamer audience to play it hardcore. CoD by itself is not a hardcore game, but if you're competing in game battles and stuff, of course it means you play it hardcore.

 

[Battenbergcake]

Hmm, he seems to have a case of hardcore deficiency.

I would prescribe 16 grams of dark souls.

And a further 10mg's of Monster Hunter and a single dose of Ninja Gaiden 1.

 

[Veldt Falsetto]

But, as many people have said, what is hardcore? I grew up with the Sega Mega Drive (or Genesis for you americans out there at this time in the morning) and I loved Sonic, I barely played anything else, sure the odd platformer but Sonic was what I came back to time and time again.

I then had a ps1 and I was still a youngster and was into games like Crash and Spyro and completely bypassed games like Metal Gear Solid and Final Fantasy VII til I was older. I loved gaming. I loved playing Spyro or Rayman or games similar, I would play anything from Metal Slug to 007 Racing. Was I hardcore then, was I playing hardcore games or were they all casual?

My ps2 was what really introduced me to gaming proper with incredible, deep games like Dark Cloud and Final Fantasy X, I was a JRPG teen, it was also where I had my first dose of action games like Metal Gear Solid 2 and Devil May Cry, sure I also had the odd platformer but mostly for my little brother, I still played through Crash's ps2 game, I adored Klonoa 2 and then even later on that gen I actually bought my own games console for the very first time in the Gamecube and fell in love with games like Wind Waker and Metroid Prime while staying true to my JRPG teen years with Tales of Symphonia and Skies of Arcadia.
Are all of these games hardcore? Buying and enjoying Super Mario Sunshine, is that hardcore?

This gen I have all 3 consoles and I am not lacking in the same games I enjoyed and loved when I was in my teens at least (platforming seems to have died a bit, well unless you have a Ps3 or a Wii, which I do), and so I can enjoy playing hardcore titles like Demon's Souls, Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn and Fallout: New Vegas. I can also enjoy platforming titles like Little Big Planet 2 or Super Mario Galaxy 2. I've even found a love for point and click thanks to great "hardcore" games like Hotel Dusk and Sam and Max. In my eyes this generation is flooding with hardcore, you just have to look past the new player friendly games like Modern Warfare and Halo and go into more depth with titles already mentioned like Fire Emblem or Demon's Souls.

I say to my friend all the time, just look and you'll find some.
I say the same to you.

 

[surg3n]

Casual gaming really started on PC's, and it's still a stronger platform than all the others. Most casual gamers play casual games on the PC, you could even say it all started with Solitaire, or that old game pack that came with Windows95, with Tetris etc.

I think theres plenty space for all types of game, if people want a certain type of game, then that's all that counts. To be honest I'm not sure what classifies a hard core game or gamer. I see hardcore games as those with the biggest challenge, and generic games can often provide that challenge. It shouldn't be about learning curves, a complex game is not necessrily any better than a simple game - hell, Angry Birds might just pose more of a challenge to complete than 'hardcore' games. If Minecraft is mainstream, and Dwarven Fortress is hardcore, then I'd rather be a mainstream gamer... we moved away from games that look like spreadsheets back in the 80's.

 

[Hyper-space]

I think you're wrong.

elaborate lol. well if you fee like it

Dark Souls? Super Meat Boy? Dungeons of Dredmore? any of these NEW AND RECENT title ring any bells?

Games went from being bullshit-hard (that is, where the difficulty lay in mindless trial-and-error) to actually hard (where skill is what matters, not remembering where every enemy and trap is located). Oh and fucking Ninja Gaiden is still going strong.

 

[SamFancyPants252]

Another elitist who doesn't want filthy non gamers playing games. Oh and he has 5 posts! Listen to this guy, he's clearly being objective and unbiased about this whole thing!

Dude, get a blog.

don't get me wrong, i have nothing against anyone playing a game, i never said that. what i have a problem with is devs selling out to newcomers like this in order to increase profits. Im not going to go beat down the door of someone because they cheese me in a game, its the devs fault for making the mechanic in the first place.

Oh I'm sorry, you are under the impression that game developers don't want their game to sell well and earn money? Why bother not advertising to make your game a failure financially, let's make it impossible and inaccessable too to cater to those 'hardcore' gamers out there who make up zero point nothing of the population!

 

[Eternimus]

Let's be honest here, "hardcore" is completely subjective. What some may consider hardcore others may consider cheap, or uninteresting, or etc. I mean I saw a show where they were doing stuff about who was the best gamer, and one of the challenged was ROCK BAND. That's a party game, and certainly not hardcore. It's fun, in short bursts, but not hardcore. And had no business in a gamer show.

I've been playing games for a long time now, (more than two decades) and the fact of the matter is gaming is way more accessible now, and it's a huge industry, even with the rampant piracy. Back in the day gaming was a very small group of stereotyped individuals who managed to get a game system and games for it, and bragged about their success. But now that the tech is so much cheaper, and the widespread internet access, anyone can be considered a gamer. Companies are only out to make profit. That's their job. If that means making their medium easier and more accessible to make more profit, they will do it.

Having said that, "hardcore" gaming, if by hardcore you mean extremely difficult, is far from dead. With Dark Souls having shipped 1.5 mil copies, and the other more difficult games people have already mentioned here, it isn't dead. There were never many "hardcore" gamers, and there never will be. More often than not, if someone can go through on easy mode, they will.

But let's be realistic. Unless you're playing the original Ninja Gaiden or Final Fantasy with only white mages, in a house that's on fire, while you are punched in the groin repeatedly and have a mouthful of bees, "hardcore" doesn't really apply to gaming. What may be easy for some might not be easy for others, so you can't really have a true definition of "hardcore".

 

[Michael Hirst]

Is Dark Souls not hardcore? Is Uncharted 3 a casual fest for new comers to gaming only? People who whine like this need to grow up in the gaming world there is room for everyone and traditional hardcore games are released all the time, we're not living in an age of Angry Birds being the only kind of game out there (despite the fact that it is really fun ) Sometimes hardcore games come in clever disguises; it seems everyone underestimates Catherine, them were some damn hard block puzzles.

I'd definitely agree that shooters have taken a turn for the worse by using the gameplay designs put in place and popularized by Halo and Call of Duty, I do miss the days of having a quad jumping flak cannon duel in Unreal Tournament but to say all shooters are now casual is ridiculous. We're even getting a new Serious Sam game for crying out loud that's as old school as you get in terms of design for a shooter.

There's even a huge Indie market of old fashioned 2D games, the hardcore crown of which now rests firmly on the head of Super Meat Boy, fantastic game that in terms of difficulty destroys a lot of what I called hard back on the NES.

Gamers now have more variety than ever in the type of game available to them and they're not just restricted to current gen games, with the availability of emulators being so wide you can get a chance to play some of those insanely hard titles you never got a chance to (I only played Castlevania 2 years ago)

 

[orangeban]

I could just point out all the "hardcore" (whatever that really means) that have come out recently, but that isn't nearly controversial enough. So instead I'll say this:

Hooray. Thank god that hardcore gaming is dead. Too long has gaming been an elitist club, full of snobs who look down on those who dare to demand games that are remotely approachable, too long has the ruling class kicked at the feet of those who wanted to join in, but just couldn't breach the first hurdle. Throw the gates of gaming open to the masses! Allow everyone to play! Only then will gaming become accepted, only when we stop acting like hipster tosspots moaning about how our favourite hobby has gone "casual" and "mainstream".

 

[TitanAtlas]

Having High hoped for Serious Sam 3 though.... it looked like a blast and like a good hardcore game ;D

 

[Something Amyss]

Hardcore gaming has always been dead to me.

As I'm one who believes that gaming is simply gaming, neither casual nor hardcore no matter how much you like to fool yourself otherwise. And in my eyes only those who win money in competitions, like the MLG dudes, can ever call themselves hardcore.

Seriously, I've never given a rat's ass about what's hardcore and what's not.

It really does seem like, most of them time people are pissed off that other people are having fun, too.

 

[krazykidd]

for a simple reason really, now that video games have become a profitable market, there really is no incentive to make a good hardcore game anymore that really pleases an increasingly niche section of gamers. Every year i see less and less hardcore games coming out( i think the last one i played was Vanquish, and that game wasn't very successful. I don't even want to think about FPS). The fact of the matter is, the people who truly care about video games are greatly outnumbered by casuals, and the gap will only increase. Its even making its way into PC, which for a long time was protected from too much casual entry due to it being somewhat expensive, and not completely easy to pick up, but now even it is becoming more accessible and watered down. This is a serious problem guys we need to consider, but there's not much we can do about it. one day everything's going to be a wagglenoobtubenolearningcurve casual fest, and devs are still going to make millions.


Just my opinion though. what do you guys think?

Firstly , congratulations on having the gaul to poat a thread like this , you are going to get flamed a lot for this.
Secondly, i agree with you whole heartedly . In this day and age people don't want challenge , they don't want to think,explore , practice,etc... They just want quick mindless explosions and fun. I have nothing against these people, hell i don't even blame casual gamers for the lack of hardcore games. I blame the developpers. Thats right the developpers for turning gamers lazy and treating them like mentally deficient adults. It's almost like they don't think we could handle a could handle a proper challenge and if they don't hold our hands we will get lost and give up om gaming. A good example of this is Castlevania: Lords of shadow. Not a bad game ,( not a castlevania game but whatever), but in that game there are a couple of puzzles , pretty good ones even , but theres an option to skip them all completly. As if gamers were too stupid to be able to complete them. I half expect then in a few years video game developpers are going to have games that play themselves and all gamers are going to have to do is watch and from time to time choose what path the hero takes , kinda like interactive movies. That might be pushing it to an extreme but inwouldn't be surprised if maintream gaming took that route.

I'll end with this: Retro gaming for the win.

 

[Scizophrenic Llama]

The Witcher 2 is pretty damn far from a casual game, same with Dark Souls. The former will kick your ass on normal, the latter is unforgiving as hell.

 

[hermes]

No. Hard games still exists, if you are willing to search for them. Dark Souls is an example... In fact, games like Peggle can be a lot harder to master than your average RPG, so I guess that is more hardcore than, lets say, Saints Row.

And also, I for once welcome the trend of not forcing people to endure punishment in order to progress though the games they bought. Maybe you are too young (despite sounding like you miss the last 20 years of gaming), but when you grow up I hope you will understand not everyone is willing to spend weeks trying to beat some boss fight.

 

[TriggerOnly]

Another elitist who doesn't want filthy non gamers playing games. Oh and he has 5 posts! Listen to this guy, he's clearly being objective and unbiased about this whole thing!

Dude, get a blog.

If you think post numbers mean something your clearly just a idiot, who is one of the masses. Try reading, and taking in what its about. Not just shooting A man down with no substance replays.

On Topic: I have to agree but there will always be the hard core games on the PC. (were 99% of hard core games are. Not a " Elitist" its just the way it works.) Its just there is so many weak "dumbed down" games out there, it makes the good ones hard to find.

I agree with your post don't get me wrong. i just found it hilarious how you called someone an idiot, one of the masses and all other insults, but can't even use the right you're.

Also it's 'an idiot' not 'a idiot'

My English has never been all that crash hot, and I do see the irony in it ^^. Thanks for looking past the English for the most part to understand my point but.