Has anyone ever actually beaten Myst/Riven without walkthrough-assistance?

[LookingGlass]

I played through Myst a couple of months ago, and finished Riven today. I really enjoyed exploring the worlds and there was some very nice sound work in both of them... but shit the puzzles were ridiculous. Most of them were just so obtuse (to my brain at least) or overly-complicated (visit 10 sites and write down symbol-sound combinations for each, figure out a symbol-to-number system they invented and then use it for a code, etc) that I found myself not even thinking about most of them before heading straight for the walkthrough solution.

I played through the original The Secret of Monkey Island game recently (well, the re-release with nice graphics and voice acting) and it had its share of "adventure game logic"... but it was mostly the kind of stuff you could figure with a bit of effort. On the level of The Longest Journey. Both much better than Myst and Riven in this department.

And then there's Gemini Rue, which made use of only four actions (look at, talk to, use hand on, use foot on) and a handful of inventory items... and whilst that meant the puzzles were quite simple, it meant that the game could actually have a sense of pacing, which you don't get when you have to stop for hours on end to figure out a brain-teaser.


That's just a lot of talking though... apart from my question in the title, I'm wondering:

1) Is the weird logic and crazy difficulty of adventure game puzzles part of the fun for you? Or would you prefer simpler, logical puzzles, even if it means an easier game (but one you could actually make it through without help)?

2) Is there a decent reason for it (other than padding game length)?

3) Which adventure games do you think offer the best gameplay? I'm talking logical puzzles, no situations where you can't win the game later on because you didn't "use cheese on old lady" at the beginning of chapter 1.

 

[CulixCupric]

1) Is the weird logic and crazy difficulty of adventure game puzzles part of the fun for you? Or would you prefer simpler, logical puzzles, even if it means an easier game (but one you could actually make it through without help)?

I prefer logical puzzles, like the Sherlock holmes games on steam, but I did enjoy mist, and myst 4, but I got help on those two, but I'm working on riven and Exile without help, but still haven't beaten it, and played MI 3, 4 & 5, but had to get help because some of the puzzles are so absurd.

2) Is there a decent reason for it (other than padding game length)?

Eh, making it a challenge.

3) Which adventure games do you think offer the best gameplay? I'm talking logical puzzles, no situations where you can't win the game later on because you didn't "use cheese on old lady" at the beginning of chapter 1.

Eh, Sherlock Holmes because you can try to figure out the case as you play. any game with a mystery, kind of like Myst, hence the title, trying to figure out the island's secrets.

 

[Blood Brain Barrier]

I played through Myst a couple of months ago, and finished Riven today. I really enjoyed exploring the worlds and there was some very nice sound work in both of them... but shit the puzzles were ridiculous. Most of them were just so obtuse (to my brain at least) or overly-complicated (visit 10 sites and write down symbol-sound combinations for each, figure out a symbol-to-number system they invented and then use it for a code, etc) that I found myself not even thinking about most of them before heading straight for the walkthrough solution.

I played through the original The Secret of Monkey Island game recently (well, the re-release with nice graphics and voice acting) and it had its share of "adventure game logic"... but it was mostly the kind of stuff you could figure with a bit of effort. On the level of The Longest Journey. Both much better than Myst and Riven in this department.

And then there's Gemini Rue, which made use of only four actions (look at, talk to, use hand on, use foot on) and a handful of inventory items... and whilst that meant the puzzles were quite simple, it meant that the game could actually have a sense of pacing, which you don't get when you have to stop for hours on end to figure out a brain-teaser.


That's just a lot of talking though... apart from my question in the title, I'm wondering:

1) Is the weird logic and crazy difficulty of adventure game puzzles part of the fun for you? Or would you prefer simpler, logical puzzles, even if it means an easier game (but one you could actually make it through without help)?

Yes, it's most of the fun. I prefer harder, well-designed puzzles that make you feel satisfied when you've worked them out. Easier games turn me off.

2) Is there a decent reason for it (other than padding game length)?

It's part of the game. You're meant to be a participant in the story, not a viewer like in a movie. And all scriptwriters know that for any story to work, the protagonist in a story must overcome some sort of challenge. Breezing through a game with a few easy puzzles would be like watching a movie in which nothing much happened.

3) Which adventure games do you think offer the best gameplay? I'm talking logical puzzles, no situations where you can't win the game later on because you didn't "use cheese on old lady" at the beginning of chapter 1.

...where to start? There are tons of them. What you find the 'best' gameplay depends on what kind of gameplay you enjoy the most. I like clever and compelling puzzles, so for gameplay my favourites are Monkey Island, The Myst series, Gobliiins, Grim Fandango, Day of the Tentacle, Space Quest and so on.