"Hatred" Reveal Trailer. Or as I like to call it, "The Next Big Controversy"

giles

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Needs a "This is what teenagers actually believe" note running at the bottom.

I could get a similar experience just murdering random civilians in Assassin's Creed (get booted for synch, rinse repeat I guess). The problem is that it would be... really boring.
 

DaViller

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"Look how super edgy we are guys, seriously!" the game. I can´t help but think this is the kind of game someone like anders breivik would make.
 

AT God

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Havent had a chance to watch the trailer yet, but as a big fan of games with similar themes (Postal 1-2, Manhunt 1-2) I think the game could be interesting. Sadly, I expect the game, if it actually does get released, won't be very good mechanically. As much as I love Postal's concept, it was fairly average as a gameplay experience and Manhunt was downright bad, despite being made by big name Rockstar. However, if this "Hatred" game is what I currently think it might be, a game about a serial killer, it could potentially be interesting and maybe even fun. Hotline Miami showed us recently that a game with fun action can have a seriously dark protagonist, although more was left open to interpretation. I usually like controversial games, I think they are important to video games as a medium, even if they become punching bags for media to blame controversy on, they are important and I like thinking about them. The fact that someone showed Postal 2 footage to the Supreme Court makes me laugh just thinking about it.

The one thing I personally hope the game doesn't do is try and take the idea too far, which in my opinion would be to tie some significant political or ideological reasoning behind the actions. It is disturbing to play a game where you play a spree killer/rampage style person, but it isn't unusual, especially depending on your own opinions. However, if the game makes any real significant attempts at focusing your actions against a certain group I will be disappointed because I think any legitimate conversations to be had about the game's content would immediately be overshadowed by the inevitable argument over the groups picked out. However, a game about a person giving up and committing an atrocity is fairly interesting, and we have seen games take similar stances and be praised for it, Spec Ops The Line did something similar but with something much more real and depressing in my opinion and I think people respected it for it. I think it will depend on how the developers handle the content and message of the game. Although, reading through their inspiration, they might not be worth putting faith into, Postal is the only series that has ever pulled off the anti political correctness angle for me, and I know I am in the minority in saying that Postal did it correctly.
 

GrumbleGrump

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MY GENOCIDE CRUSADEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
CANT YOU SEE ITS SO VERY EDGE YOU GUYS IM SERIOUSLYYY

It's kinda funny to be honest. If pushed a little further, it'd make a hilarious parody game of all the edgy bullshit.
 

Michael Tabbut

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Longing said:
Guerilla said:
Looks fun, I like it. Always loved anti-hero movies and games, they're usually pretty interesting.
I don't think he quite fits the criteria of an antihero.
Yeah it's more full on villain protagonist, a real rarity.

OT: A friend of mine showed me this last night and all I thought about was the inevitable controversy this will probably spur. The sad thing is I'll probably buy this since I'm somewhat of a sucker for the ultraviolence.
 

Lugbzurg

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So... it could be like Spec Ops: The Line or Hotline Miami... or it could make Shadow the Hedgehog really proud of itself. We don't know yet. It should be no coincidence that the title uses the Doom font. I can also recall coming a cross a side-scrolling flash game kinda like this that took place entirely in a school for you to shoot everyone up before the cops showed up. That was rather uncomfortable to play, both thematically and mechanically.

Elfgore said:
Man, the edginess is almost too much for me to handle!!!

But seriously, even if I liked these types of shooters, I wouldn't buy this. There is a thing as too much gore and it honestly just looks like something some douchebags made to get media attention. Like that movie Rage.
I didn't see one single frame of gore in that entire trailer. Blood and dismemberment are not the same thing as gore.

If they really wanted to get edgy with the violence, I think they'd have to 1-up Brutal Doom.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=89iszJNcKQw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VpdzGkSH96Y
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn2J4Loe57g
 

zen5887

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Everything about this game is so insultingly dumb I want nothing more for it to be some masterful level of satire and parody. Unfortunately I can't really see any angle that this would work. Unless I'm missing something or unless the developers are going for the long con, there is nothing presented in this trailer or on the website that says "self aware satire".

Consider what the website says about the game:

The question you may ask is: why do they do this? These days, when a lot of games are heading to be polite, colorful, politically correct and trying to be some kind of higher art, rather than just an entertainment ? we wanted to create something against trends. Something different, something that could give the player a pure, gaming pleasure. Here comes our game, which takes no prisoners and makes no excuses. We say ?yes, it is a game about killing people? and the only reason of the antagonist doing that sick stuff is his deep-rooted hatred. Player has to ask himself what can push any human being to mass-murder
The only way I can see this statement and the trailer turning out to be some critique of gaming patterns a la Spec Ops is if they are straight up lying to us. It might be the case, and I'll be the first one to say "whelp, I was wrong" if it is, but it just makes so much more sense to assume this is just a shit idea for a game, these guys (who are making their first game, for what it's worth) are playing it straight, and it really is just about killing people with no higher message. The edgy tone and any controversy is being played up as much it can to get people to buy it (because it probably won't stand up on it's own).

Tone and theme and context definitely play into how the content of a piece of media is accepted and my head spins when I read people not getting this. Saying "Hatred is like every other twin stick shooter out there right now" is completely off because, while the general idea (shoot *enemy* using these *mechanics*) might be similar, the context and tone is completely different. Fighting hordes of hostile aliens is completely different to hunting unarmed and innocent people. Think about why American Psycho is a good film, despite it's violence, and Saw VI isn't. Violence isn't inherently *wrong* or *low-brow* or *lazy*, it's what's done with the violence, and what's happening around the violence that makes it work or not work.

The comparisons to GTA are interesting to me because I disliked pretty much everything about Trevor in GTA V for a lot of the same reasons I dislike the idea of this game. Veering off topic for a second, Trevor felt like a reaction Rockstar made in response to the "GTA IV wasn't as whacky as the other ones" cries from the community. I feel like they didn't want to go back to that level of needless violence, so they threw in a zany side character that can do all the rampages and killing the fans of older GTA games like. Hatred looks like pretty much the same reaction, except without Rockstars writing and storytelling ability. But the biggest difference between this game and GTA is that GTA (outside of the rampages *...sigh..*) doesn't need you to kill sex workers and take their money or fire rockets into traffic for no reason. Sure, they allow you to do it because (probably because it's a leftover from the old top down games, right?) they want you to have the freedom to live as a criminal in their world, but it's entirely possible to go through the game without doing it.

And that's the difference here, isn't it? And this is the point of conflict. Some games allow unarmed civilians to get killed within the context of the universe, but Hatred and the context of Hatred *is* killing unarmed civilians.

TL;DR, it's a game that will get released despite all the bad press it gets, and it'll sell kind of well *because* of all that bad press, and it'll probably a mediocre game once the novelty wears off. The controversy this game generate will give it more attention than it deserves.
 

Fishyash

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Something else just came to mind, the reaction to this game reminds me of this video.

 

RedDeadFred

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May 13, 2009
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Such angst
Many brooding
So We Need to Talk About Kevin
Wow

I'm sorry for the overused meme, but I can't take this crap seriously. Maybe if they played Batman's Darkness song over top, it would be better.
 

MrMan999

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The entire point of Hatred seems to be to shock and offend. And quite frankly its doing its job quite well. That said, Hatred has just as much right to exist as stuff like Depression Quest. To decry hatred and call for its removal while defending stuff like Depression Quest is hypocritical. You defend one game you defend all the games.
 

Netrigan

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You lost me at "iso-metric shooter"... the only controversy there is why people ever wanted to play them.
 

Fappy

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MrMan999 said:
The entire point of Hatred seems to be to shock and offend. And quite frankly its doing its job quite well. That said, Hatred has just as much right to exist as stuff like Depression Quest. To decry hatred and call for its removal while defending stuff like Depression Quest is hypocritical.
I don't think anyone in this thread said this game has no right to exist. Most of us just think it's dumb.

You defend one game you defend all the games.
As long as they don't fall under the purview of obscenity law, sure.
 

Timpossible

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It's a piece of shit game. If those guys who make this say that this is "the pure gaming expierence". Well if this is pure gaming...fuck pure gaming.

The Problem with this Game is not the violence...not even the "violence against unarmed civilians"...the problem is the context. It takes itself 100% serious in the premise "Kill as many innocents as you can, because you hate humans!" It has no wacky humor like Postal 2. It seems to have no satirical subtext or gives you a choice like GTA. There is no situation of self defense. Not even in pretentious form. The Protagonist looks like the fantasy of my 16 your old psychopath, talks like one and acts like one.

It's dumb and not in a silly and funny way. It's pubertal. I thought Games have grown out of this.

By no means I want to ban it or activly stop the devlopers from doing their shitty game. But i really hope it get's ripped apart by every gaming-page that exists. Many already do. And I'm happy that Epic told them to not mention them. That's a good way: Do what you want but we don't want to have anything to do with you and your product.

BTW: The fact that some of the guys from the development-team have ties to fascist and other extreme right wing groups does not make it more likly that this will be "just another edgy game".
 

IamLEAM1983

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Aug 22, 2011
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Dat edge, tho.

It's not so much a question of games "having grown" out of things like this as there being a constant basin of younger gamers for whom this kind of stuff is actually interesting. Or, God forbid, to whom it actually speaks.

I see a Twin Stick shooter trying too hard, the tweens and teens might see something more evocative. Well, if "evocative" means "based off of one Philosophy semester and a Nietzsche overdose, plus the mild need for a therapist."

If I want gun porn, I have three Borderlands games to sate that need. If I need gravelly-voiced and long-haired types straight out of Rob Liefeld's darker portfolio, I have my crates of comics and pretty much the entire "The Darkness" run.

If I want Nihilistic insanity, though? Eh. I still have a couple younger cousins who just entered the "MY RECENTLY DISCOVERED SOCIAL CONSCIENCE IS BLEEDING!" phase and who are convinced we're heading for the proverbial precipice.

As for the devs having ties to Fascist orgs? Why am I not even remotely surprised? I sounds and looks like a sleeker "Zog's Revenge".
 

RavingSturm

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No controversy about the game. The trailer's getting people to take sides, exactly the response the developers want.
 

WhiteNachos

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Fappy said:
MrMan999 said:
The entire point of Hatred seems to be to shock and offend. And quite frankly its doing its job quite well. That said, Hatred has just as much right to exist as stuff like Depression Quest. To decry hatred and call for its removal while defending stuff like Depression Quest is hypocritical.
I don't think anyone in this thread said this game has no right to exist. Most of us just think it's dumb.

You defend one game you defend all the games.
As long as they don't fall under the purview of obscenity law, sure.
Obscenity law is vague and relies on how offensive to common tastes a piece of porn is or something like that.

Anyway if its all fiction who cares how obscene something is, there are no victims.
 

WhiteNachos

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C. Cain said:
Antonio Scott said:
I find it kinda stupid how people are upset at this tbh. The method to the madness of the game aside, the fact that people are opposed to this while in other games and media people can be killed with reckless abandon and no one bats an eye. All they have to do is make sure they affiliate with some opposing group and all sins are absolved.
The concept you are looking for is called 'context'. Since we're unfortunately not living in a world in which any given act can be classified as either being absolutely wrong or absolutely right we have to contextualise.

To wit: the act of taking something is generally considered value neutral. Taking your own property is okay, taking somebody else's property is not.

The act of killing, meanwhile, is generally considered a bad thing. Killing someone on purpose gets you convicted for murder, killing an assailant in self defence does not.

And finally the act of saving a life is generally considered a good thing. Saving children from a burning orphanage gets you applause, saving Pol Pot from a burning orphanage... not so much.

As to video games, you're right: Affiliate the killing with an opposing group and give said opposing group something 'evil' to do and you're sorted. Change the context by making the people you're slaughtering innocent victims and you're begging for controversy. See how it works?

So, now that you're equipped with that tasty morsel of (common sense) knowledge you may hopefully see why people might be a bit upset.
Unless these people also complained about Saints Row they have no right to complain. Let's cut the pretense, most people who have played a sandbox crime game have gone on rampages before, and that's what this game is "GTA rampage the game". That they can be OK with that but freak out over this is hypocritical.

The only difference between the two is that this game requires you to kill civilians while most of the time the sandbox games only force you to kill cops (but sometimes there's challenges that require you to kill civilians to reach 100%).
 

WhiteNachos

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Quadocky said:
From the Website:
These days, when a lot of games are heading to be polite, colorful, politically correct and trying to be some kind of higher art, rather than just an entertainment ? we wanted to create something against trends. Something different, something that could give the player a pure, gaming pleasure.
Wow. I wish I lived in whatever imagination land they do.

The game looks exactly like something a secretly neo-nazi person would make. Or an un-ironic metal head.
They have a point, not about the politically correct part but way too many games take themselves too seriously and try to have a story as a main focus rather than new and great gameplay.
 

WhiteNachos

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xPixelatedx said:
Uriel_Hayabusa said:
xPixelatedx said:
Part of me wonders if this was commissioned by people who genuinely hate videogames and/or the people trying to change videogames "for the better"...

Because it kind of looks like Starwman: The Game to me; something manufactured purely to paint the industry and gamers as crazy people. It plays on just about every prejudice and it seems to be doing it on purpose.
Reminder: one of the most popular video game franchises in the world is named after a felony and enables people to go on killing-sprees.
That is done very tongue in cheek with a dark humor context,
*cough* Cop out *cough* *cough* Bullshit *cough*. Oh sorry there was something in my throat. Seriously you're going to argue that you slaughter pedestrians ironically?

What is tongue and cheek about getting into huge shoot outs with the police? The same police that the games say are corrupt? The same police it demands you kill in certain missions because you are a criminal?

What about GTA IV when they tried to have a gritty story with drama and you can still mow down civilians for fun?
 

Bombiz

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WhiteNachos said:
Quadocky said:
From the Website:
These days, when a lot of games are heading to be polite, colorful, politically correct and trying to be some kind of higher art, rather than just an entertainment ? we wanted to create something against trends. Something different, something that could give the player a pure, gaming pleasure.
Wow. I wish I lived in whatever imagination land they do.

The game looks exactly like something a secretly neo-nazi person would make. Or an un-ironic metal head.
They have a point, not about the politically correct part but way too many games take themselves too seriously and try to have a story as a main focus rather than new and great[\b]gameplay.


But the gameplay isn't new or great. At least from what the trailer showed. It looks boring,bland, and generic. Looks to me like they're trying to sell based on shock value alone which is the biggest offence in my book.