Hawking Warns Humanity to Avoid Dangerous Aliens

Treblaine

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derelix said:
Treblaine said:
derelix said:
Your talking about biology we learned from life on earth. You really need to open your mind if you want to talk about life somewhere else in the universe.
No offense but your just repeating what you read in several science books, good books but most of it will probably look like barbaric superstition 1000 years from now. Just look at what they "knew" hundreds of years ago, nobody ever made new discoveries by assuming we know everything already.
Oh... Seriously?!?

I mean that, are you actually being serious? Tell me you are being sarcastic or just trying to be funny.

The shit that you say we "knew" 100 years ago that is discredited now was MADE UP! Loads of stuff pre-Renaissance, especially to do with chemistry (alchemy) was NOT SCIENCE.

But the Actual Science from almost half a millennium ago stands just as true today as it did then. Isaac Newton's equations were almost all the physics that was used to chart the trajectory of the rocketry in the Apollo space program to put humans on The Moon!

And Einstein's Theories did not disprove Newtonian physics, only added to them.

"nobody ever made new discoveries by assuming we know everything already."

No one is claiming we know everything, you seem to be implying that since in 1000 years all modern science will be seen as "barbaric superstition" that would should act as if we don't know ANYTHING!

I'm just stating what we DO know.
Oh I'm sorry, i forgot that everyone "back then" were just idiots who believed anything, obviously our beliefs are way more relevant and always 100 percent true.
That part was sarcasm btw, you seem to be pretty slow so i thought i would help you with that one. Enjoy your delusions, can't wait till your "logic" starts crumbling. People like you call people like me crazy because i keep my mind open to all probabilities, you keep yourself grounded in your self made reality.
NOW you mean offence. (and I seriously couldn't tell if you were begin sarcastic).

And you can't just ignore science. What is the point in it if you do? I think you COMPLETELY fail to comprehend what science actually means, that means it IS fact because it HAS been proven and remains so until proven otherwise.
 

Canid117

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Treblaine said:
Seriously, it is very poor form to just go point by point through people's response, it shows you are less interested in coming to compromise and more interested in simply to opposing each and every point I make simply because I made those points.
It might seem like poor form but it helps those who haven't been paying attention until now. If someone walked into a conversation on these boards which do you think would feel less threatening, a wall of text or a cleanly organized series of points? This is all philosophical debate so compromise is not really the point. Neither of us is going to convince the other that their point of view is wrong so why try to compromise? I view this as a honing of internet debate skills for fun and for a sense of intellectual growth. What is so bad about that?
 

The3rdEye

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Tom Goldman said:
In short, they would be powerful, and likely desperate enough to not give a what what about the human race. "We only have to look at ourselves to see how intelligent life might develop into something we wouldn't want to meet," he said. "I imagine they might exist in massive ships, having used up all the resources from their home planet. Such advanced aliens would perhaps become nomads, looking to conquer and colonize whatever planets they can reach."

We will not go quietly into the night!
We will not vanish without a fight!
We're going to live on! We're going to survive.
Today we celebrate our INDEPENDENCE DAY!!!!!
 

FaithorFire

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mattttherman3 said:
Maybe I'm naive but I like to hope that the aliens are like the ones from Star Trek(not like the Borg though, HELL NO). There's no reason we can't all be friends.
I hate to say it, but I think you are naive. Consider this: Why are humans so selfish and violent? It's a very powerful part of our behavior that we developed to survive. Throughout all our history we've gotten more selfish and brutal because that's how we take control of space and resources to make room to reproduce. Hawking's whole idea is that aliens would have logically evolved under similarly competitive conditions. Nice aliens would be great, but any species that is kind and peaceful probably couldn't have survived long enough to leave their own planet, much less solar system
 

FaithorFire

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veloper said:
how far do our broadcasts reach into space?

It would suck to have only wired communication.
Well, our broadcasts move at the speed of light. The first we know of was in 1906 (I believe). Which means any evidence (that a species of psychotic apes who inhabit a planet of water have become intelligent) has only traveled 104 light-years away.
In galactic terms, that's about to the end of the driveway.
 

FaithorFire

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sukotsuto said:
Speaking of microwave technology, you can actually throw off some emission seeking missiles using open regular household microwave ovens pointing upwards lol:

http://www.globalresearch.ca/articles/BOG211A.html

Maybe something as simple as that can beat off an alien invasion
That would be wonderful! Seems kind of like Star Trek, where any radiation seems to make the alien (RE:StarFleet) weapons as useful in a fight as a 1998 Nokia cell phone
 

Vigormortis

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I'm an absolutely avid fan of Mr. Hawking. I've read and kept up with much of his work. Hell, I wrote a bio on him back in high school. (yeah, I was that nerdy) However, he isn't always right. There's been times when he adamantly defended one point of view, only to reverse that stance years later when new theories/evidence arise. (a very admirable trait) He even reversed his view on his own theory. He, and much of the scientific community, held the idea that black holes were literal "points of no return". However, he later postulated that black holes radiated energy, later known as Hawking radiation.

The trouble arises when people take anything he says as gospel and are then unwilling to hear opposing views. This happens often around the world, with other, influential people. (religious leaders spring to mind) Point is, just because he said it, doesn't mean it's right. Even he'd tell you to look for an opposing view.

I can't deny there's a possibility that an alien species could be hostile. However, long-held sci-fi ideas about what futuristic space-travel would be like aside, the sheer difficulty and cost of sending a vast majority of a civilization across the vastness of space all but guarantees that ANY other species would not even bother going through the effort of invading. Therefore, I think it's more likely that a hostile civilization would likely just adhere to broadcasting a "stay the hell away!" message out into space. (seeing as they'd likely be xenophobic)

This is all assuming they'd be more advanced than us. Something that's not as likely as you'd think. The other thing to consider is, if they really are as advanced as Mr. Hawking is saying, then it's likely they wouldn't even consider us as civilized. We'd be nothing more than primitive animals. Not worth communicating with.

Now, I know what some of you are thinking, "If we're so insignificant, and they want our 'resources', then they'd just wipe us out and take what they want." That's partially true, but would it be worth the trouble? Would the rewards out-way the costs? Let me explain. Consider the plot to Avatar. Had real-world physics and rules been applied, it really would not have been worth it to go to Pandora and retrieve that "unobtainium". There's the cost of shipping all of that material and personnel to Pandora, not to mention building the vessels used to transport them. The constant production and filtration of the air they need to breath. The fuel needed for all of those vehicles and mining equipment. The energy need to run all of that equipment. The food, hell, even the wages for the personnel. Then, finally, all of the resources needed to send the mined "unobtainium" back to Earth. On top of it all, add in the trouble and cost of fighting the Na'vi, and the costs quickly spiral out of control. Well beyond what they'd make mining.

I know it's a stretch using a movie plot as an example, but it seemed apropos. My point in all of this is, there's no reason to assume an alien species would be hostile. Percentage-wise, I'd think it'd be more likely an alien species would be either indifferent or far, far less advanced than us. It's more likely we'd be the hostile species invading a world inhabited by very, very primitive creatures.

Just my 2 cents. Consequently, I loved that Discovery program. I plan on watching every episode.
 

Seneschal

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Jun 27, 2009
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Vigormortis said:
I'm an absolutely avid fan of Mr. Hawking. I've read and kept up with much of his work. Hell, I wrote a bio on him back in high school. (yeah, I was that nerdy) However, he isn't always right. There's been times when he adamantly defended one point of view, only to reverse that stance years later when new theories/evidence arise. (a very admirable trait) He even reversed his view on his own theory. He, and much of the scientific community, held the idea that black holes were literal "points of no return". However, he later postulated that black holes radiated energy, later known as Hawking radiation.

The trouble arises when people take anything he says as gospel and are then unwilling to hear opposing views. This happens often around the world, with other, influential people. (religious leaders spring to mind) Point is, just because he said it, doesn't mean it's right. Even he'd tell you to look for an opposing view.

I can't deny there's a possibility that an alien species could be hostile. However, long-held sci-fi ideas about what futuristic space-travel would be like aside, the sheer difficulty and cost of sending a vast majority of a civilization across the vastness of space all but guarantees that ANY other species would not even bother going through the effort of invading. Therefore, I think it's more likely that a hostile civilization would likely just adhere to broadcasting a "stay the hell away!" message out into space. (seeing as they'd likely be xenophobic)

This is all assuming they'd be more advanced than us. Something that's not as likely as you'd think. The other thing to consider is, if they really are as advanced as Mr. Hawking is saying, then it's likely they wouldn't even consider us as civilized. We'd be nothing more than primitive animals. Not worth communicating with.

Now, I know what some of you are thinking, "If we're so insignificant, and they want our 'resources', then they'd just wipe us out and take what they want." That's partially true, but would it be worth the trouble? Would the rewards out-way the costs? Let me explain. Consider the plot to Avatar. Had real-world physics and rules been applied, it really would not have been worth it to go to Pandora and retrieve that "unobtainium". There's the cost of shipping all of that material and personnel to Pandora, not to mention building the vessels used to transport them. The constant production and filtration of the air they need to breath. The fuel needed for all of those vehicles and mining equipment. The energy need to run all of that equipment. The food, hell, even the wages for the personnel. Then, finally, all of the resources needed to send the mined "unobtainium" back to Earth. On top of it all, add in the trouble and cost of fighting the Na'vi, and the costs quickly spiral out of control. Well beyond what they'd make mining.

I know it's a stretch using a movie plot as an example, but it seemed apropos. My point in all of this is, there's no reason to assume an alien species would be hostile. Percentage-wise, I'd think it'd be more likely an alien species would be either indifferent or far, far less advanced than us. It's more likely we'd be the hostile species invading a world inhabited by very, very primitive creatures.

Just my 2 cents. Consequently, I loved that Discovery program. I plan on watching every episode.
Agreed on many points, however, I think Avatar's plot actually emphasized the financial and engineering difficulties of colonizing and exploiting another world. The spacecraft they arrive in, the Venture Star, is so incredibly expensive and ponderous that only the insane value of the unobtainium is able to justify it. It's over 1.6 km in length, so I presume it would weight more than 500,000 metric tons, yet it has space for only 350 tons of payload. 350 tons of unobtainium, priced at $20 million per kilogram = estimated value $7 trillion.

That's a lot of money. Basically, it's the only plausible reason we'd want to go into space. Interstellar space, I mean. And even so, the Venture Star uses an antimatter engine, something like a pion drive that annihilates matter and antimatter at a 1:1 rate. Creating such quantities of antimatter would probably cost more than $7 trillion in real life, even in 2150 or whatever the year is in Avatar. Though, if they found a cheaper way, they probably make a small profit with every trip to Pandora and back.

Unless the aliens find something so valuable in our system (and I can't think of anything that we wouldn't get our hands on first) we're not worth the effort. Not even for scientific purposes. And aside from some made-up supercompound that would make our system important, they can get most resources in their home system (as can we - Europa is brimming with more water than Earth itself, Titan has entire seas of gasoline, the main-belt asteroids have all the metal you could ever wish for).
 

katsabas

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After some comments that his guy made about the Almighty, I do not really like him. But that doesn't stop him from being right. I imagine the concept of District 9 being reversed.
 

tetron

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I will be looking forward to that show on may 9th. As for the whole dangerous aliens thing, I think hawking needs to lay off the robotech. That's not to say he isn't right.
 

Declan Driver

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There seems to be a fair bit of talk of invading armies for resources. If a race has capable and stable inter-galactic travel then they would of mastered the building blocks, protons, neutrons, neutrinos, quarks, deuteron etc and be able replicate the resources from gas clouds which litter the universe since everything is made from the same basic blocks, like different houses are made from the same type of brick. The only reason an alien race would choose to contact humans is simple.....boredom.
 

Fensfield

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I still liked the SETI reply - 'Hawking's a physicist, not a SETI researcher. What does he know?'
 

The Singularity

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Spiner909 said:
The Singularity said:
No, I'm saying intelligence and opinion are relative. If I say a monkey is a genius, then in my opinion, he is! Does that mean he necessarily a genius? No. The definition of a genius is relative to the person who is using the term.
Does Hawking consider himself to be extremely smart? Maybe. It is highly probably That people like Einstein and Hawking are wrong, but that doesn't make them any less more 'intelligent'.

Regarding fields of science that don't exist, I don't have much more to add. Black holes, for example. We've never seen one. We've never experienced one. We can only guess on stuff we can't even be sure is true.
Your idea about geniuses is redundant. High IQ and good use of it=genius. If you are wrong all the time then you clearly are not smart...
We can see black holes just as much as we can see every every star and planet, maybe even more so. We just can't see them in our tiny eyesight. It has a massive gravitational lens and is itself small(compared to other stuff) we have pictures of them absorbing stars gases, and the most obvious sign is that there is a GIGANTIC black circle surrounded by other lights. If there is a person in black walking across a field in daylight you can still see them, by the absence of light. Please learn a little about space before replying.
 

LarenzoAOG

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I think it's comical that the best advice the world's smartest guy can give is to avoid dangerous shit. It kinda makes you wonder how dumb he thinks we are.