Help a newbie multiclass in D&D 3.5

[Jay Knowles]

so a few months ago I started playing D&D 3.5, and not wanting to make an unplayable character I opted to go down the Fighter route. now I'm just about to hit lvl 4 and I'm finding my character a little uninteresting.

we've got a really good DM and the story he's crafting is compelling so I don't want to give up, it's just that I'm the guy with the big hammer and shield that runs into battle and distracts all the guys with the pointed sticks.

basically I'm looking for some advice, if any, anyone has on picking up another class, the DM has already OK'd any non prestige classes from any of the supplementary books, but I really don't know what I'm looking at or whether taking a class that sounds interesting would break my character.

our party has 2 clerics (one a war cleric) a sorc, a wizard, a druid, a barbarian a paladin and another fighter, with such a large party our DM is artificially making the npc's better and making us work as a team to take things down and so far my role has been to block everything from getting to the spell casters.

so, if anyone has any suggestions I'd be most appreciative

my characters stats are as follows;


STR 15
DEX 14
CON 17
INT 14
WIS 9
CHA 13

Alignment: True Neutral
Feats: Power attack, Cleave, Combat expertise, Dodge, Weapon Focus (Warhammer).


on a side note, we're just about to embark on a dangerous and difficult quest for a bunch of wizards, with the promise of rewards at the end, I'm sure the DM would let me take some training instead of shiny loot...

captcha: jump the candlestick

 

[Amakusa]

hmmm not sure your in the right thread. Would of thought this went in offtopic or role playing? Then again if i wanted to talk about board games would i post here or the offtopic one? So perhaps this is correct area hehe


Anyway looking at your class composition and using my knowledge of pathfinder and old dnd games. I would say you have a party that doesn't have rogue. If your gonna multitask look into the rogue or bard type classes. They might help balance your party, but that would depend on what skills and feats your compatriots have taken.

 

[nogitsune]

I agree with the post above that Rogue would be a good choice for a multiclass. Rogue's work really well in multiclassing with fighters, the class abilities and lots of skill points give you a reason to fight smart and you can really up damage with backstabbing, I believe you can use the bluff skill to feint and get a back stab even if you 1 on 1 with a foe. Skills you should focus on is bluff, Dissarm trap, pick lock. Move silently and hide are optional because you have a fighter class and will likely be wearing armor that hinders it, but still great skills to take. I'd recommend staying far away from Bard though, they're Jack of All Trades and that makes them kinda not good for multiclassing.

 

[Jay Knowles]

thanks for your advice, would taking a few levels in ranger be advisable? I could use the two weapon fighting bonus feat to start bashing things with my shield.

 

[nogitsune]

no, don't take ranger better to just use feats for two weapon fighting and ambidexterity since you aren't limiting yourself in armor and Ranger's not that great of a class for multiclass and bonus feats from the fighter class will get you the feats you need easily and by using feats you can use two weapons even in plate mail.

 

[Patrick Hayes]

What ho young lad! There is only one class you will ever need! The mighty Muscle Wizard!

Muscle Wizard requirements-
Base Strength 13+
Base Constitution 13+
Base Charisma 13+
Arcane Spellcasting 5th level
Improved Grapple
Improved Unarmed Strike
Discipline- 8 ranks
Intimidate- 8 ranks
Must be able to cast Evocation spells.

Muscle Wizards have a hitdie of 1d6 and BAB of 3/4
They gain arcane spell growth and caster levels equivalent to wizards. They also gain unarmed damage bonuses equivalent to monk levels, although no other monk bonuses apply.

Muscle Wizards may not wear light, medium, or heavy armor. They also may not wield a weapon of any sort other than a glove or a gauntlet.

Muscle Wizards store their spells in their muscles. In order to do this as well as obtain a proper workout each day, the Muscle Wizard is less efficient than standard wizards. All spells memorized by the Muscle Wizard take two spell slots instead of one with the exception of Mighty Flex. Mighty Flex may be memorized only once per spell level.


Muscle Wizard level 1-
Great Muscle- Permanent gain of +1 to strength, constitution, and charisma
Muscle Casting- Muscle Wizards now use the Strength score in place of Intelligence for all arcane spellcasting.
Mighty Flex 1 (Transmutation)- May be stored at spell levels 1-3. Grants (Spell level/2 round up) morale bonus to all rolls for 1d4 rounds. Heals entire party for (Spell level)d2 hp.

Level 2-
Flex Casting- Muscle Wizards may cast arcane spells by flexing at any time they choose. This has the effect of a Silent Spell with no spell level requirements. However, this may not stack with any other metamagic feat and requires full mobility.

Level 3-
Excellent Muscles- Gain permanent +1 to Strength, Constitution, and Charisma.

Level 4-
Nothing

Level 5-
Incredible Muscles- Gain +1 permanent Strength, Constitution, and Charisma
Mighty Flex 2- Same as Mighty Flex 1 except now Mighty Flex may be stored up to level 6 spells.

Level 6-
Solid Muscle- The Muscle Wizard now has +1 natural AC and 1/- damage resistance.

Level 7-
Awesome Muscle- Gain +1 permanent Strength, Constitution, and Charisma

Level 8-
Musical Muscle- the Muscle Wizard may use Perform (Barbershop Quartet) at 1/2 his caster level or at his highest Perform check once per day.

Level 9-
Perfect Muscle- Gain +1 permanent to Strength.
Fist Casting- The Muscle Wizard may choose to imbue his fist with a spell. During his next attack, he must make a successful touch attack. Any spell cast this way bypasses reflex saves. Spell resistance DC is increased by one point for every three points above touch AC rolled by the Muscle Wizard.

Level 10-
Fist (Universal)- (Caster level)d10 bludgeoning damage to all beings and objects within line of sight radius. Living and nonliving creatures will be treated as not blocking line of sight, immobile structures and terrain may block line of sight. All creatures and immobile structures regardless of friend or foe will receive damage. The Muscle Wizard may cast Fist once per day as an epic spell.

 

[Forobryt]

mighty snip

Kind of reminds me of an idea i had for an orc mage with an int of 7, his version of fireball was yelling fireball and punching people.

OT: Multiweapon fighting + monkey grip + oversized weapons + weapon expertise (gnome), now go recruit 2 gnomes fit them in spiked armour and put them on sticks. Then go cry that the DM wont allow it.

 

[Shinsei-J]

Sounds like you're finding your character boring not because of the class and gameplay but instead their personality isn't interesting.
Speaking from experience the time I spent playing was made much more enjoyable once my characters became about something more than just hitting things. Making your character compelling and acting as if they were a person is just as important as a DM's narrative, it's all about your interaction with this world.

If this doesn't actually apply to you, sorry 'bout that and yes multiclassing into a rogue is most likely the best idea.

If this does then you should just try to figure out what kind of person he/she is.
It can just be something base level that will help you figure out how he'd react to different situations, example being something like fighting for honour or wealth. Minor stuff helps too, like a fear, dislike or love, doesn't matter how small because it's about fleshing out your character. The last piece of advice I've got is probably the best, let your character grow.
People change with each experience we have and your character should do the same.
Let them become someone until you know them like an old friend, trust me it much funner this way.

 

[Jay Knowles]

Sounds like you're finding your character boring not because of the class and gameplay but instead their personality isn't interesting.
Speaking from experience the time I spent playing was made much more enjoyable once my characters became about something more than just hitting things. Making your character compelling and acting as if they were a person is just as important as a DM's narrative, it's all about your interaction with this world.

If this doesn't actually apply to you, sorry 'bout that and yes multiclassing into a rogue is most likely the best idea.

If this does then you should just try to figure out what kind of person he/she is.
It can just be something base level that will help you figure out how he'd react to different situations, example being something like fighting for honour or wealth. Minor stuff helps too, like a fear, dislike or love, doesn't matter how small because it's about fleshing out your character. The last piece of advice I've got is probably the best, let your character grow.
People change with each experience we have and your character should do the same.
Let them become someone until you know them like an old friend, trust me it much funner this way.

that sounds about right, I've been trying to come up with a personality to match his skills, but the only thing he can really do is intimidate things and not falling over when he tries to jump onto a table, and given his relatively high INT I would have gathered he'd know all sorts of ingesting things. I think having getting a few levels in rogue might open up some interesting RP character traits, rather than just sitting in the corner and letting everyone else do the talking because it's not all that smart to go around intimidating guards and wizards...

 

[Asita]

that sounds about right, I've been trying to come up with a personality to match his skills, but the only thing he can really do is intimidate things and not falling over when he tries to jump onto a table, and given his relatively high INT I would have gathered he'd know all sorts of ingesting things. I think having getting a few levels in rogue might open up some interesting RP character traits, rather than just sitting in the corner and letting everyone else do the talking because it's not all that smart to go around intimidating guards and wizards...

Don't think of the stats. Think of the character. He's a fighter right now, what made him decide on that profession? Did he want to be something else? Do you see him 'clicking' with any particular party member? At odds with any of them? If yes to either, consider what that means about how he treats people of similar descriptions[footnote]For the sake of example: Knocking heads with a Dwarf Mage convinced of his own immortality gives you three possibilities right off the bat: 1) He doesn't like dwarfs, 2) he doesn't like mages and/or 3) he doesn't like people who are arrogant enough to believe they can't be killed (ala Ladd Russo of Baccano! fame)[/footnote]. Is he educated? Book Smart/Street Smart? Ill mannered? Cultured? [Deliberately] Crude? Does he enjoy fighting? Killing? Is he a pacifict? Why?

The stats can give you an idea of your character's capabilities and limitations, but ultimately if you want to have fun with a character you have to be willing to look beyond the stats when characterizing him. Give him a history, give him quirks. Don't let the stats define you. Cut loose and have fun with it.

 

[nuttshell]

...would taking a few levels in ranger be advisable? I could use the two weapon fighting bonus feat to start bashing things with my shield.

Afaik, the bonus feats only work when you have 15+ DEX. And isn't there a feat for bashing with a shield? If you want your character more interesting in fights, pick up throwing weapons and/or rogue and craft some bombs or nets or something...create some throwable/quickly deployable traps.

 

[Bara_no_Hime]

Huh. It's been a long time since I played 3.5 rather than Pathfinder.

Okay then - I'm gonna go with Rogue. You could make a "muscle Wizard" but the party is already heavy on spellcasters. However, you have no rogue.

Fighter/Rogue makes an excellent DPS character. Your job will be to flank and hit single foes hard. You won't be as useful against multiple weak foes (that's what spellcasters are for) but against a single powerful boss you will be a major source of damage. Also, your early fighter levels will help you survive better in 3.5

Also note - as a 4th level fighter, you qualify to take Weapon Specialization. TAKE IT. 2 flat damage that multiplys on criticals is always worth it - particularly for a DPS rogue.

Plus you can find traps!

 

[Quazimofo]

that sounds about right, I've been trying to come up with a personality to match his skills, but the only thing he can really do is intimidate things and not falling over when he tries to jump onto a table, and given his relatively high INT I would have gathered he'd know all sorts of ingesting things. I think having getting a few levels in rogue might open up some interesting RP character traits, rather than just sitting in the corner and letting everyone else do the talking because it's not all that smart to go around intimidating guards and wizards...

Don't think of the stats. Think of the character. He's a fighter right now, what made him decide on that profession? Did he want to be something else? Do you see him 'clicking' with any particular party member? At odds with any of them? If yes to either, consider what that means about how he treats people of similar descriptions[footnote]For the sake of example: Knocking heads with a Dwarf Mage convinced of his own immortality gives you three possibilities right off the bat: 1) He doesn't like dwarfs, 2) he doesn't like mages and/or 3) he doesn't like people who are arrogant enough to believe they can't be killed (ala Ladd Russo of Baccano! fame)[/footnote]. He Is he educated? Ill mannered? Cultured? Crude? Does he enjoy fighting? Killing? Is he a pacifict? Why?

The stats can give you an idea of your character's capabilities and limitations, but ultimately if you want to have fun with a character you have to be willing to look beyond the stats when characterizing him. Give him a history, give him quirks. Don't let the stats define you. Cut loose and have fun with it.

I support this wholeheartedly and offer one more suggestion. Give your character a goal. Not just the completion of the quest, but something he has wanted to do since he was a child. If you want him to be more than a murderhobo, gotta give him some motive. If your GM is particularly adaptable, as I would expect from having 9 goddamn players, you may even be able to do slight stat alterations or gain minor bonuses (or minuses) to skills and the like from having a fleshed out back-story. They may not always be beneficial, but if your character got seasick and almost drowned the first time he was on a boat (likely as a child. perhaps while learning to fish), he's probably afraid of water in general and would suffer a minor swim penalty; then you can have fun acting really uncomfortable/paranoid around large bodies of water (or anything more than a glass-full if you take it far enough) and have all sorts of wacky hijinks! It adds a LOT to a game to have little things like that.
For example, I'm in a game of Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (2nd edition. It's great) and one of our players is a rogue. His starting equipment included a deck of cards and he had much more fellowship(charisma) than intelligence. So, when the opportunity arises, he nearly always gambles with anyone and everyone willing. He's made a lot, but also lost some. It also cost us a day (in game) of doing stuff because every time he gets near the town's gambling den, he decided it would be in-character to roll willpower to resist the urge to gamble. He luckily has only failed once so far.
This gambling manifested into a general greediness (but not blind greed, he's not THAT much of an idiot), and has lead to some interesting experiences. Most recently, because he got enticed by the signing bonus, he got caught up in a merc group and had to go on patrol or get killed for desertion (he kinda forgot about his obligations for a few days). So, to keep him alive (no more than 2 had returned from any patrol yet, and nobody could catch a glimpse of what killed them) we all got dragged along and mauled horribly by goblins and a werewolf/dog thing. Cost us a LOT of armor and one of us (besides the npcs, who both were horribly dismembered) got killed. All because he couldn't resist a signing bonus. And now my character is depressed about it because they would have all gotten away if they left me behind after my leg got wounded.
These games are called RPGs for a reason. You're not just a player avatar, you're a player, a true character, a person. Act like a person, and think as you believe he would in situations. The stats are a guideline and present for the sake of rules. They do not define your character, they merely assist in determining who he/she is. Think about it like that, you likely will enjoy these games a lot more.

Also, how does your GM manage with 9 players? That's just silly! How do you even manage scheduling?!?


If you want some more advice, you could always try 4chan. Specifically the /tg/ forum. ESPECIALLY the /tg/ forum. As a matter of fact, only the /tg/ forum. Seriously, the rest of the site is completely insane.
Anyway, if you make it clear you're relatively new, and trying to go from Rollplaying (sticking to the sheet) to role-playing (more like what I described above), you'll either get a few asshats who insult you in silly/non-sensible manners (or less silly manners, like claiming you're too lazy to make your own character), or you'll get someone who is willing to help and likely knows a lot about the game in both a rules sense and character sense (i.e they can spot pitfalls from personal experience).

 

[Hemlet]

[

Also, how does your GM manage with 9 players? That's just silly! How do you even manage scheduling?!?

Speaking as a GM who runs a game for a group of 12: Keeping meticulous notes is a must, splitting the party on purpose is sometimes necessary, and being good at improv REALLY helps. Scheduling is a nightmare, so if people don't show up we don't begrudge them and someone else runs their character for a while/their character buggers off to the tavern for a while/runs minor errands for the group. People keep showing up so I'm doing something right.

OT: Everyone saying "Rogue" pretty much nailed it. People who fight with technique and precision are scary. People who fight dirty are also scary. People who do both are people who are frankly not to be fucked with. The extra skill points, sneak attacks, rogue special abilities, and trapfinding would make you a greater asset to your group numbers-wise, especially if you put a fair amount of points into Search and Disable Device for dealing with traps.

Character-wise it could be a lot of fun too! Did your character start to fight a little meaner or get a little bit more street smart through experience? Did they decide there was more to be made through being a thug rather than a soldier? Maybe they challenged themselves to learn how to be a bit more subtle in case there came a time where kicking in the front door was guaranteed to be a bad plan? There's some opportunities there!

 

[Jay Knowles]

Also, how does your GM manage with 9 players? That's just silly! How do you even manage scheduling?!?

we play on a Wednesday night for 5 or so hours, if anyone doesn't turn up some plot contrivance is dreamed up where they didn't come along, we've had getting separated in the woods a couple of times, and also our dwarf barbarian had some 'experiments' performed on him by some wizards (resulting in a permanent +1CON -2WIS)

we also give the DM a copy of our character sheet every week and he keeps a record of everything we do.

difficulty curve is getting pretty screwy, we almost wiped to a couple of dire wolves, but demolished a hydra in one round

all in all, I think I'll take the overwhelming advice to flesh out the backstory (thanks for all the input too by the way) I've always known he was a caravan guard originally from Mirabar and his father was a blacksmith (hence the name Smithson) I'll think of a good reason he left the town and work it into my play style. I've joked a couple of times (ok every time we make camp) that I need some healing from our 16 year old paladin as we go off into a tent together... I could come up with some character traits addressing his sexuality, or his apparent lack of empathy for anyone but himself unless it's specifically for his own benefit (I sell loot I cant use to my companions for more than I could sell it for, but less than they could buy it for)

Taking levels in rouge seems like a natural progression, I've never played my character particularly honourably, and fighting dirty feels like it would fit him well. in fact, I might give my character some sort of motto.

 

[Quazimofo]

Also, how does your GM manage with 9 players? That's just silly! How do you even manage scheduling?!?

we play on a Wednesday night for 5 or so hours, if anyone doesn't turn up some plot contrivance is dreamed up where they didn't come along, we've had getting separated in the woods a couple of times, and also our dwarf barbarian had some 'experiments' performed on him by some wizards (resulting in a permanent +1CON -2WIS)

we also give the DM a copy of our character sheet every week and he keeps a record of everything we do.

difficulty curve is getting pretty screwy, we almost wiped to a couple of dire wolves, but demolished a hydra in one round

all in all, I think I'll take the overwhelming advice to flesh out the backstory (thanks for all the input too by the way) I've always known he was a caravan guard originally from Mirabar and his father was a blacksmith (hence the name Smithson) I'll think of a good reason he left the town and work it into my play style. I've joked a couple of times (ok every time we make camp) that I need some healing from our 16 year old paladin as we go off into a tent together... I could come up with some character traits addressing his sexuality, or his apparent lack of empathy for anyone but himself unless it's specifically for his own benefit (I sell loot I cant use to my companions for more than I could sell it for, but less than they could buy it for)

Taking levels in rouge seems like a natural progression, I've never played my character particularly honourably, and fighting dirty feels like it would fit him well. in fact, I might give my character some sort of motto.

Sounds like a plan my friend! Put some thought to it, stick to your new direction (unless it is plot-appropriate for a shift), STAY IN CHARACTER, and most of all, have fun with it!
Just a note though, the tradition of last names with a -son suffix is a tradition originating in scandinavian countries (icelandic/norweigan culture). However, rather than based off of the father's profession, in common folk surnames a man's surname was always his father's given name with the -son affix on the end. Hence erikson, friedrikson, hanson etc. In some other countries and situations, the affix was different (sen, sson, uson if the mother's name is the base, dóttir for daughters etc). The generationally constant last names were reserved for nobility and didn't really catch on with the common folk until some time later. Thus, to have a surname based on your character's father, it should be based on his first name with the son suffix put on the end.

Unless you decide your family's tradition in-game dictates otherwise (presumably that the surname is either generational, assuming many generations of blacksmiths, or indeed based off of the profession, which implies the former anyway since otherwise it would be a ***** to trace the lineage thus defeating the purpose). That'd be totally cool. It's your character after all. I just like the opportunity for tangential learning that these games provide considering they can incorporate almost literally anything you can imagine. And now you know the basic etymology of most last names ending in sen, son, sson, and uson!

Should you desire, you could even justify changing it as a moment of character growth, like your father dying, and the reason you went by smithson was to not expose his name and put him in danger of attack by the enemies you made; now that he's dead you feel that it would be a posthumous way to pay respect to him. The same familial death could also signal a final separation from the sense of honor which made you go fighter rather than rogue in the first place (if your character was acting rogue-ish the whole time, as it seems he was to a degree).

Roleplay! Always fun stuff. Sorry that I got a bit carried away.