Help For a Budding DM: How can I tame my players?

[Shymer]

I think phones, iPods, DS or other distractions should not be at a game unless there is a critical need for receiving inbound phone calls from other half. Have a fixed timeslot for the game session and then put electronic gadgets away for that slot. Putting your iPod on mid-game is rude. That being said - is the game spread evenly with interest for all the players - perhaps one person is hogging the limelight?

I've never had a problem with people punctuating in-character conversation with OOC humour and observations. Part of the fun of the game, for me, is saying stupid and funny stuff, quoting inappropriately from film or pop culture. A lot of it can indicate the game is, perhaps, too serious for what they are looking for - and they are looking to break tension.

Having a conversation between players unrelated to the game - making arrangements to meet, discussing the news etc. is not great - if players need social time, then perhaps socially chat over food before the game session starts - but keep it strictly outside the game itself. Again - watch for the game not being spread evenly - people uninvolved in the action may get bored.

I find narration dull and would suggest trying to keep it to a minimum. If the players have stressful lives and jobs, perhaps they just need a little mindless escapism, not for someone to read carefully prepared text to them and expect attention. Take a leaf from Raymond Chandler - when the pace is slowing down - have a guy with a gun (or fantasy equivalent) boot down the door without explanation, and 'open up'. You can explain it later if the players are engaged enough to ask.

 

[Folio]

I had the exact same thing, but I had the 'luxury' of DM-ing two groups. I kicked the second one, they didn't respect it or me at ALL.

The second group did make me invent 'Dragon Karma'. Whenever a player doesn't cooperate or thinks he's better: insta dragon. "See if you can beat that on your own!"

Again, these type of players see it as a game, not as an adventure. They do it Final Fantasy style, grinding their way to XP and loot just to show off. They complain when they haven't reached a level after one battle or are given enough money just to buy one overpowered weapon WAY above their level.

You can try to get them to the story kicking and screaming, but they don't give a flying fuck (for lack of better words). I even went to stricter rules the more they didn't bother with anything.

Seriously, if the group's style doesn't match your style: ditch 'em, make it harder or see what their motivations are.

-These players are slayers, power builders and instigators, they make things happen and beat shit up. They shoot first, ask questions later. What is the situation needed the questions first in their favor? Make them notice that.

-Make it harder so they NEED to pay attention. Make the battles more complex with the skills the monsters have and use ALL the powers. (And brutes, a lot of players can't stand Brutes)

-Ditch 'em, they don't care how much work your put in your campaign. They don't care what lies ahead because they think they can beat it to a pulp when their turn begins. If they die, they blame you, not themselves or the story. It's not worth the work if they don't respect it with patience.

 

[AnAngryMoose]

Thanks for the advice, I'll certainly be taking it on board.

I like the idea of the BOULDER counter that Arluza suggested, along with the 'Dragon Karma' that Folio suggested. Although, putting up with them bitching and moaning that I'm being unfair will take some getting used to.

And to everyone who suggested that I find a new group; I can't. It took a while to scrounge up this many players, so it's either these guys or no one.

 

[Tallim]

Add Realtime. There was a really old published adventure that was played out in 3 realworld hours, there is no time for not concentrating or long winded discussions. Helps if you can get a big stopwatch with digital display to stick on the tabletop in full view.

Other than that they are either : not that interested in the game or your sessions are too long for their attention spans.

Someone mentioned Paranoia as an alternative game and I approve of that. But even if you don't want to run that it's worth looking up how Paranoia GMs deal with unruly players. It can get very creative and amusing.

 

[aegix drakan_v1legacy]

Ok, let's take a crack at this...Some of my solutions are a bit dickish...but kinda funny.

Anyway, before I get to the solutions, just start by asking them what you can do to make them more interested in the game.

Second, improvise. Try to roll with what they do, and allow for creative solutions. And if do something stupid, force them to live with it. And tell them it's their fault for bringing it on themselves.


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-They burst into full-blown conversation when there's the slightest lull in the combat, making it difficult to narrate combat and non-combat encounters. One in particular interrupts narration with completely stupid questions, knowing very well how stupid they are.

Solution:
Tell them that all conversation is treated as in-game conversation unless they specifically say that they are speaking out-of-game. If they start yapping their mouths too much in combat, and don't SPECIFICALLY say it's out game talk...say "The enemy notices that you are distracted by conversation and gets an attack of opportunity on you!". Eventually they'll learn.

As for the stupid question guy, introduce a deity that hates stupid questions, and anytime anyone (even an NPC) asks a stupid question, they get hit by lightning.

-They get distracted easily mid-game. One tends to listen to his iPod, another messes about on his phone and generally acts like a child, refusing to listen when I ask him to pay attention.

Solution:
Firstly, tell them that it's disrespectful, and that it's impossible to enjoy DND if you're not trying to get into character (and listening to your ipod or playing with your phone really distracts from that, making them have less fun.). If that doesn't work, make them do reflex checks once in a while, where they must do a good roll, and do it within five seconds of you calling the skill check. Thus, they'll need to keep their minds on the game.

---
Also, don't be afraid to screw the rules and do your own thing. I did an improvised DND campaign with a buddy once, no books, no rules. Just him narrating and making up the stats, and stuff as we went. And it was freakin awesome.

Good luck!


EDIT:

Last thing: this is a tip from experience as a teacher. If they start going off on tangents, listening to an iPod, whatever. Wait. Don't talk. Just wait. Look at the offending people and just wait. If they want to play, they'll knock it off and you can game. If one of them won't knock it off, and the others want to play, they will put peer pressure on...which works better because some folks always feel the need to resist authority. If none of them knock it off, then you know they don't want to play, and that is the last game you GM for them.

This. THIS is a good idea.

 

[trooper6]

and as for the qoute while i do agree I've gotta say it seems like you haven't really played much D&D if your think its just nothing more than petty hack and slash without much depth, I've personally had a lot of experience with 3.5 giving an immense amount of depth to the games and the characters though it does all depend on who your with, the GM and basically just how long your going to be carrying this around lol

Oh, I've played a lot of D&D. I started gaming in 1984, when D&D was almost the only game in town. I've played every edition except 4e (and I even own the core books for 4e as well). Can there be deep D&D games that aren't just hack'n'slash? There *can* be, however, the game system itself doesn't encourage that style of play going all the way back to AD&D when you only got xp for delivering the killing blow on a monster...and for loot acquired. And in my experience (which involves a *lot* of D&D), the vast majority of the D&D players I've encountered default to seeing combat as the "important" part of the game. Everything else is often seen as wasting time...because it generally doesn't get you xp. And while 3.5 and 4e leave open the possibility to earn xp for non-combat things, most DMs don't tend to do it, and most D&D players haven't really internalized that.

Further, I have seen the difference in the quality of roleplay when switching players from D&D to game systems that have advantage/disadvantge or merit/flaw systems, that have more mechanics for non-combat behavior, that do not tie xp to killing things, and don't work with a class system allowing real open freedom to create unique and personalized PCs.

As an example. I was a player in a GURPS: Transhuman Space campaign (think Cyberpunk, but with genetic engineering rather than cybernetics, and less dystopian). The campaign frame was that we were all private investigators in the free city of Montreal. The characters we got?

Gianni (my PC): Very conservative Catholic ex-cop single father. Very good with street operations (stake-outs, chasing people down).
Blake: Rescued from sex slavery by my PC when he was still a cop. She is an expert hacker...and a sociopath...well that is where she started.
Louis: Forensic Accountant with secrets. One secret? That he is also a jazz musician on the side. No big deal. Other secret? He is a sympathizer of a transhumanist terrorist group.
Aki: Brilliant geneticist and medical doctor. She will do a lot of the Bones sort of work. She has major privacy issues due to her earlier life in Singapore, but is the heart of the team at the same time.
Neville: The smooth operator. Ex-British Intelligence. Handsome and could sell ice to an eskimo.

In D&D we'd mostly all be the same "Class"--Most likely, we'd all be Rogues, though my character might have multiclassed with Fighter or Barbarian, and Neville & Blake would probably have multiclassed with Bard. And we mostly all be rolling on the same roll "Gather Information" with a few other skills thrown in. In 4e, it would have been far more difficult.

In GURPS we all had very different ways to go about finding out things. I favored Observation, Intimidation, Criminology, and Police Contacts. Blake favored Computer Hacking, Louis favored Accounting and Intelligence Analysis, Aki favored a slew of scientific skills, from Genetics to Forensics. Neville favored Sex Appeal, Fast Talk, Shadowing, and Intelligence Contacts.

We were all the same "class" D&D-wise (Information Gatherers), but in GURPS we were all very different characters, mechanically, not just in terms of our character bios.

Another example of the difference--that campaign ran for three years (the GM planned to run it for 2, but gave us all one extra year because it was going so well), and in those three years there was only about two combats. One a bit of a shoot-out in a train station, and the other a staged kidnapping in a bar in Singapore to escape the Martian Triads. I know very few exclusive D&Ders who could conceive of a campaign that that little combat.

 

[trooper6]

Thanks for the advice, I'll certainly be taking it on board.

I like the idea of the BOULDER counter that Arluza suggested, along with the 'Dragon Karma' that Folio suggested. Although, putting up with them bitching and moaning that I'm being unfair will take some getting used to.

And to everyone who suggested that I find a new group; I can't. It took a while to scrounge up this many players, so it's either these guys or no one.

AnAngryMoose, I don't recommend the Boulder or the Dragon Karma. That is just you punishing them in game for out of game behavior. It is abuse of GM power and will lead to an antagonistic relationship between you and the players. That is never a good thing. The game will get worse if you do this. As a GM you have to be fair.

There are other players. Where do you live?

 

[freakydan]

I just tell my players to keep OOC talk to a minimum. If they start talking during a battle or something when it's not their turn, I'll grind everything to a stop and wait for them to finish. This usually annoys other players enough that everyone decides to behave to prevent getting on everyone elses bad side.

As for people playing video games or listening to music, as soon as the video games come out or the headphones go on, I tell them to put it away or hand over their character sheet. I put in the time to prepare a game for them, and if they are so bored that they need music or video games to keep themselves entertained, they don't need to play. No exceptions.

It's all about being firm. If you really put your foot down and show your players that you're not going to take any crap, they'll shape up pretty quickly, or they'll leave. Either way works out in your favor.

 

[Smooth Operator]

If people aren't paying attention then you need new ones, even if you slam them with battles the only result will be them leaving... ah fuck it, first do that, then get new players

 

[Vidi Kitty]

I had a friend kill me in game because he was too busy on his computer and was just answering yes/no and rolling, which added up to him AOE blasting my unconscious fighter into oblivion...

So when I'm DMing and people get distracted and refuse to listen, I start describing the awful things happening to their character out of the blue until they start paying attention again. I never make it actually happen, but people usually get the picture. Also getting them to roll a check for walking distracted can do it, especially if there are hazards about... like carriages or drops or something...

Always important to never be outright mean, and keep it a "hypothetical" situation unless they are really set on not being a part of the game.

Once had someone start a conversation on some anime that distracted everyone, shifted to ninjas after a minute or so. So I spoke over everyone "ninjas drop out of the trees, surrounding you" and proceeded to give them some weak ninjas to maul to get them back on the game.

 

[synobal]

Make sure they have to listen to win. *Shrug* only way I can think of doing it. If they don't listen then what to do isn't obvious etc.

 

[ConvincingJohn]

Shouldn't it be about having fun.

If they aren't having fun it's only natural that they'll try to do something to make things more entertaining for themselves.

I was thinking that. You're allowed to piss around in a DnD game, as long as everyone's having fun, then what's the problem? And if the game's not running well, you're not going to improve anyone's fun-having experience by forcing them to play "properly."

While I very much agree, that any role-playing game(or game at all) should be about the fun, it isn?t just the players that should be having that fun. The DM should be enjoying himself too. I think you need to have a talk with your players about expectations (yours and theirs) to the game. Hopefully you´ll find some sort of balance to the whole thing. If not, well then you gotta find out if the grief is worth it. If not there not other option than to find other players (or just plain stop if that?s not possible). Such things always suck, but it?s better than getting bitter after each session.

I am myself playing in a group right now, where the DM(actually Storyteller, but whatever) has a rule, that if anybody says that his character does something silly, as a joke, he rolls a D6. If it comes up 6, then this is the action that character takes, joke or no. I just recently joined the group so I haven?t experienced it myself. And while it has some problems (all types of obvious Player punishment does), it seems like a pretty benign version, of ?Rock Falls, Everybody Dies? trick.

As for banning electrical equipment, personally I?m not a fan. These kind of problems are more, in my eyes, more an attitude problem, than the equipment itself. I have had good experience with players using this kind of stuff(but if you´re running a medieval campaign, this probably doesn?t apply)

Bottom line: you should have fun. If the DM has fun, most likely, so will the players. If you feel like you have to ?tame your players?, something is clearly going badly.

 

[GoodOmens]

Talk to them. Before a session, or during some other neutral time, let them know your concerns. Explain to them that any RPG is best when it's a collective experience, when everyone is working together for everyone's enjoyment. Ask them what style of game they're looking for. If they're looking for combat, give them more combat. But explain that the game won't be a constant kill-fest, and ask them to try moving out of their comfort zone.

Don't punish characters for players' obnoxious behavior. Learning to play an RPG takes time and practice. In learning, reward works better than punishment. In a game like this, the reward should be a fun time for everyone. Bolts of lightning from the heavens and random dragon attacks only reinforces the idea that they can't win, and that you're the only one in charge.

And, I agree, gadgets get turned off, music gets turned off, no TV, no laptop. The DM can have a laptop because he needs to keep track of more information. Give each session a reasonable time limit, and then factor in time for farting around afterwards. If they know that after a 4 hour session (or whatever's appropriate for your group), you'll order pizza and talk about movies, they won't feel as tempted to disrupt things during the session itself.

 

[Luke5515]

Try, setting a trap that they could avoid if they paid attention to the non combat parts, make it a subtle, when it hits them, have an NPC explain that they warned them.

 

[Rusty pumpkin]

By punishing them for screwing up. That's about it, it's what my old DM did. Worked fine, even if our barbarian was unconcious half the time.

 

[Mark Flanagan]

Marks 8 simple Ground rules/things I do when I'm GMing (Currently running Pathfinder for 5):

1) No electronic devices at the table

2) Play around a table as it really helps attention span.

3) Constant combat is boring, I know its DnD but thats no excuse. Add in some diplomacy, chases or stealth.

4) Rolling clock, At this time in this realm X is happening. Not there to stop it because you were dicking about? Tough. People died.

5) MVP, at the end of the session each player writes down who should be MVP and why. The winner gets a natural 20 (non critical) to use next session.

6) YOU keep hold of all the rule books. Not sure on a rule? Wing it and check after session so not to break momentum. Don't let players sit there thumbing through the players guide.

7) Over describe NPC actions. "The bandit hits you for 4dmg" is boring "Screaming a curse the bandit lashes out at you with his sword, you swing to the side but not fast enough as his blade slices across your temple. Take 4 dmg" is awesome. If you do it your players will and rather than talking when they arn't rolling they will be listening to the other players and you describe the actions and think about cool things of their own to say.

8) I wouldn't recommend punish players for bad behavior, rather engage and reward good behavior.

 

[Confidingtripod]

treat everything in-game, if someones talking during a fight their too distracted to defend themselves, if their listening to music or playing with a phone they are fideting and step on a trap, in-game punishment for real actions

 

[AnAngryMoose]

Thanks for the advice, I'll certainly be taking it on board.

I like the idea of the BOULDER counter that Arluza suggested, along with the 'Dragon Karma' that Folio suggested. Although, putting up with them bitching and moaning that I'm being unfair will take some getting used to.

And to everyone who suggested that I find a new group; I can't. It took a while to scrounge up this many players, so it's either these guys or no one.

AnAngryMoose, I don't recommend the Boulder or the Dragon Karma. That is just you punishing them in game for out of game behavior. It is abuse of GM power and will lead to an antagonistic relationship between you and the players. That is never a good thing. The game will get worse if you do this. As a GM you have to be fair.

There are other players. Where do you live?

Ireland. Not very many people are interested in it from my experience.