Help! Is it legal for managers to take staff's tips?
- Thread starter luke10123
- Start date
Just be glad you're in the UK. In America the government started pushing for tips to be reported to the Internal Revenue Service so they can be taxed. Here the rules are designated by individual company policies: Most restaurants' rules designate tips go to the customers' individual servers while other companies "pool" tips and distribute them among all the employees equally.
In America waiters and waitresses are legally paid half of the minimum wage because employers expect them to make up the rest of their pay by receiving tips from customers. The concept behind this (which has been around for...ages) is that the servers are supposed to maximize their service to customers in order to earn better tips. That's why I always tip waiters and waitresses in restaurants even when I'm so dirt poor that I have to stretch to pay for a meal out.
It sometimes results in cross cultural misunderstandings. I've heard stories from people and read instructions in tourist guides and language books warning Americans that our custom of tipping is unknown in Japan which often leads to Japanese waiters and waitresses chasing down customers to return the money "they forgot". They do this because they would view keeping such money as stealing.
Different cultures have different customs.Bertylicious said:
In America waiters and waitresses are legally paid half of the minimum wage because employers expect them to make up the rest of their pay by receiving tips from customers. The concept behind this (which has been around for...ages) is that the servers are supposed to maximize their service to customers in order to earn better tips. That's why I always tip waiters and waitresses in restaurants even when I'm so dirt poor that I have to stretch to pay for a meal out.
It sometimes results in cross cultural misunderstandings. I've heard stories from people and read instructions in tourist guides and language books warning Americans that our custom of tipping is unknown in Japan which often leads to Japanese waiters and waitresses chasing down customers to return the money "they forgot". They do this because they would view keeping such money as stealing.
The majority of pubs or bars that I visit would quite often have a glass or jar on the bar where tips can be placed. I assume from there it would get divided between the staff. Generally, if I get a pint for $6.80, the 20c will go in the tip jar each time. If I'm eating, then it all comes down to the quality of food and service. Basically, I'll tip when I feel it's called for. And if I visit somewhere like the US, I'll continue that. If I see a bill where a tip has been added, they won't be getting it.
Tips are for exceptional service, not for doing your job or for topping up your income. That's your bosses responsibility. The assumption of a compulsory tip is absolutely laughable to me. Don't get me wrong here, I have a good enough income to be generous and usually tip 85% of the time. But when the place I'm at tries to tell me to tip, rather than letting me decide, then that's just going to ruin any good impression I have if the place.
On the topic though, when I do tip I expect it to go to the staff. Either directly to my server, or preferably into a pool to get divided at the end of the night. This makes it a lot fairer on the chefs, kitchen hands and door staff who may not get to deal with the customer as directly as the wait staff, but are none the less integral to the running of an establishment. I have a lot of friends in hospitality and almost every one of them receive their tips under that kind of system. If I knew that tips were going into the till and directly to the business, I wouldn't leave a thing. That's what their posted prices are for. If they want more money, raise their prices and ensure the quality justifys it.
Tips are for exceptional service, not for doing your job or for topping up your income. That's your bosses responsibility. The assumption of a compulsory tip is absolutely laughable to me. Don't get me wrong here, I have a good enough income to be generous and usually tip 85% of the time. But when the place I'm at tries to tell me to tip, rather than letting me decide, then that's just going to ruin any good impression I have if the place.
On the topic though, when I do tip I expect it to go to the staff. Either directly to my server, or preferably into a pool to get divided at the end of the night. This makes it a lot fairer on the chefs, kitchen hands and door staff who may not get to deal with the customer as directly as the wait staff, but are none the less integral to the running of an establishment. I have a lot of friends in hospitality and almost every one of them receive their tips under that kind of system. If I knew that tips were going into the till and directly to the business, I wouldn't leave a thing. That's what their posted prices are for. If they want more money, raise their prices and ensure the quality justifys it.
Hello, I work in a public house/resturant.luke10123 said:
Unless your place of works says your tips go straight to the staff, then it can go anywhere. Tips are for the service and not for the individual unless it expressly says that all tips go to your appointed server.
Tips in my place are taken by the waiting on staff and the 20% is given to the people in the kitchen, our manager doesn't take tips but there is nothing stopping them from doing so.
do you see ANY of the tip money, I have worked in a few places (in canada) and sometimes the manager would take an equal share, though they did actually seat people and take orders and generally help out. If you are not seeing ANY of the money that is kind of bullshit and I would recommend staging a bloody coup
Yeah, I'm in Australia to, I've never seen anywhere that actually accepts tips, I have had tips offered at work, but we don't take them. I believe that we get paid a bit more than American's so we don't need to collect tips.
I'm sorry to say it's not only legal but commonplace in the UK. Under employment law you a providing a service to your employer in exchange for a salary (or hourly rate in the case of a casual worker), and any payment that is made to you in your capacity as a member of staff is payable to your employer. This is because your services are being provided to the customer by your employer, not by you.luke10123 said:
However, just because it is a legal practice, doesn't mean your employer can do this. You mentioned that the pub you work for is part of a chain. If your part of one company there should be a uniform policy in place - you will need to check with your head office - with regards to the handling of tips. The most common arrangment with pub and restaraunt chains in the UK is franchising, which is more complex as some aspects of your employers practices will be dictated by the franchising company, and some by the individual franchise holder. Even if your pub is a franchise it is still worth checking whether tipping is covered by a blanket policy that your employer is bound to as part of the franchise.
If you have no joy with this route i would direct you to: https://www.gov.uk/tips-at-work/overview for an overview on employment law regarding tips. Note the part regarding the voluntary code of best practice. It may be worth checking if your employer is signed up to this.
The only other thing i can say is good luck and maybe think about finding somewhere else to work? And at least companies cant use tips to top up to the minimum wage anymore! (This was still legal as recently as 2008).
I don't know if it's legal, but it's disgusting and it's theft. Basically they're taking money that was given specifically to you, and not to the establishment. As for tipping in general, doesn't happen much in Australia, but I'm with Mr Pink.
I apologise, I was a little snippy last night, and completely agree with the sentiment about good business ethics.Bertylicious said:
Sadly what I've seen of the real world shows that "Big Business" is mostly run by Commerce graduates these days, who don't understand humans, or anything you can't put into numbers and fit into the balance sheet. They demand "results"... by which they mean, "numbers".
I've done a fair amount of consulting internationally and companies will pay lip service to "good business ethics", "best business practices", and "valuing human beings"... and then the day after I leave they read my report and instead decide to cut 20% of staff and deny them their severance pay.
Why? Because it makes the numbers look good in time for the annual report, and the stockholders don't meet the employees, they read the annual report. If the annual report doesn't look good then the Managing Director faces the stockholders voting him out, so instead of building up people and getting good work from them he mismanages his people for 2 years, focusing on numbers instead of people, calls in a consultant at the last minute to try and wave a magic wand and fix everything, concludes that the fixes suggested (training, development, pay hikes he failed to pay for the last 2 years, etc) are going to make him look awful in the annual report... and so he just fires people. Sadly this DOES make the annual report look good for long enough for the MD to keep his job, even though it puts the organisation into a death-spiral... but the MD will be looking for a new job, citing his "success" (based on the numbers in the last company) as a reason for his next company to pay him even more.
So yes, I agree with the sentiment, but sadly the real world just doesn't work that way.
