Help me get past the first hour of Morrowind, and actually start the main quest in Oblivion

[Sam Eskenazi]

Ahoy there,

Two problems:

1. I've never got past the first hour of Morrowind! I make a character, do all the beginning stuff, do a couple quests, explore a cave and then... I quit. I don't know why. The inherent confusion? Not knowing what the hell I'm doing? I don't know... Point is I just stop, and I don't know why...

2. I've played and re-played Oblivion like 4-5 times now, but I've never finished it. I always do the same thing! I make a stealthy character and do the Dark Brotherhood lines. Sometimes I do the fighter guild as well, and the mage's, and sometimes the Arena. But I do little else! I've only ever done the first quest for the main plot line and a bunch of side quests, then get sidetracked and never finish it... appaling.

Can someone suggest something to help me out? Mods, perhaps? The problem with TES mods is that there are so many of them! I install some, then think "maybe other mods are better!". If I get rid of the silly leveling system, I then think "but I should be playing it Vanilla"

Any suggestions? Mods? Therapy?

Sam,

 

[Erana]

Morrowind is a bit harder to get through it, but ultimately the best advice we can give is based on the kind of gameplay you like most. Are you in it for the exploration or the quests? Do you want a challenge or like magic? In it for the sweet loot?
Anything would be useful.

And I know you mention quests here, but quests in Oblivion are pretty much the best gameplay period, so you might be different here.

And as for "I should be doing the game X way" just remember, you're playing it on the PC. It is your buffet, and you shouldn't regret anything because you can ret-console ANYTHING you feel like into your experience.

 

[Vrach]

Morrowind's a little hard to get into for a today's gamer cause it's... well weird. It also isn't built to be so user friendly, which is a good thing for the game, but seems a bad thing to anyone who plays it. You don't have things like markers for where to do your quests, instead you have a map and are given directions - "it's north of here, follow the road and it'll be on the right". When you think about it, that system is absolutely awesome, especially for a game that's built around exploration, but it is a little off-putting as we're so used to being coddled by games and having a 6th sense map feature that tells us exactly where something is.

I'd suggest making a character, heading down the road to Balmora instead of taking the Silt Strider (you'll know why when you see it) and then following the main quest for a while. Try mixing it with a little Fighter/Mage guild action, depending on what you're focusing your character to be. Don't try to mix fighting and magic too much either, Morrowind just isn't built for it.

Explore your surroundings as you go along (I hope you like exploring, cause it's a lot of what TES is about), do some Daedra quests, get yourself some cool spells like Levitation/Jump/Mark/Recall/etc., they're gone in Oblivion and endless fun in Morrowind.

Oblivion... well, frankly, it's quite easy to get into. You say you already have, by the sound of it, you're thinking TES is about the main quest. While I wouldn't say the main quest is insignificant, TES has some rather good main story, it's not exactly what the game is about. Most of the game IS about just wandering around, working with various groups.

I'll admit the Oblivion's main quest is a little hard to get into. When I first started the game, I stepped through the first Oblivion gate and regretted it as I got my ass handed to me a few moments later. I figured I need to level up somewhat first, but when I got back, thanks to the leveling system, I got my ass handed to me again for the most part... though I did have more tools this time around and knew more about the game, so I pulled through it. Persistence is the key, though you would be better off just leveling up a bit to flesh out your character, even if the mobs level with you, you're still gonna be better than them, cause you're getting more than just stats as you go along.

 

[Sam Eskenazi]

Morrowind's a little hard to get into for a today's gamer cause it's... well weird. It also isn't built to be so user friendly, which is a good thing for the game, but seems a bad thing to anyone who plays it. You don't have things like markers for where to do your quests, instead you have a map and are given directions - "it's north of here, follow the road and it'll be on the right". When you think about it, that system is absolutely awesome, especially for a game that's built around exploration, but it is a little off-putting as we're so used to being coddled by games and having a 6th sense map feature that tells us exactly where something is.

I'd suggest making a character, heading down the road to Balmora instead of taking the Silt Strider (you'll know why when you see it) and then following the main quest for a while. Try mixing it with a little Fighter/Mage guild action, depending on what you're focusing your character to be. Don't try to mix fighting and magic too much either, Morrowind just isn't built for it.

Explore your surroundings as you go along (I hope you like exploring, cause it's a lot of what TES is about), do some Daedra quests, get yourself some cool spells like Levitation/Jump/Mark/Recall/etc., they're gone in Oblivion and endless fun in Morrowind.

Oblivion... well, frankly, it's quite easy to get into. You say you already have, by the sound of it, you're thinking TES is about the main quest. While I wouldn't say the main quest is insignificant, TES has some rather good main story, it's not exactly what the game is about. Most of the game IS about just wandering around, working with various groups.

I'll admit the Oblivion's main quest is a little hard to get into. When I first started the game, I stepped through the first Oblivion gate and regretted it as I got my ass handed to me a few moments later. I figured I need to level up somewhat first, but when I got back, thanks to the leveling system, I got my ass handed to me again for the most part... though I did have more tools this time around and knew more about the game, so I pulled through it. Persistence is the key, though you would be better off just leveling up a bit to flesh out your character, even if the mobs level with you, you're still gonna be better than them, cause you're getting more than just stats as you go along.

I guess I'm just unsure what route to take... Do I take the archer route? Do I want to be a fighter or a mage? I know that in Morrowind you kind of have to choose and specialize, but I don't know to what extent... I guess I always get "grass is always greener" syndrome...

Wtih regards to what I prefer, I love me some exploration, but I also do enjoy a good story and sidequest. Very general I know.

With Oblivion, I just always felt guilty about never doing the main quest. When should I start it? Should I hold off on it for a while? Is it best to get rid of the leveling system? Should I choose major skills based on what I use most, or what will make me level up under my control?!

Oh god... so many questions...

 

[StrixMaxima]

For Morrowind, a great place to start is here:

http://morrowindoverhaul.net/blog/

You can find several great Mods and Graphic Ovehauls bundled together. There is a lot to download and to install but trust me: it's worth every minute.

Morrowind is a hybrid game: half oldskool, half modern. Which means you have to think about what you really want in the game. When in doubt, follow the main quest. It'll give you a good feel where you are. Also, creating a character you enjoy is fundamental. I like 3 different characters:

1 - Dark Elf Destruction specialist with Apprentice birth sign.

2 - Atmer Mage with Atronach birth sign (don't judge me!)

3 - Khajit explorer with a hint of Illusion.

I frankly don't care much about the hack and slash, so i focus on Magic and stealth to keep things fresh and interesting. And, trust me: it is a game where you need to connect with your character, because you'll spend a lot of time together.

Finally, don't ignore some key spells, such as Soul Bind, Jump, Mark/Recall, Levitate and Telekinesis. With a bit of luck and tinkering, you can get items with those effects for you, if you are not proficient enough to cast them reliably.

 

[Sam Eskenazi]

For Morrowind, a great place to start is here:

http://morrowindoverhaul.net/blog/

You can find several great Mods and Graphic Ovehauls bundled together. There is a lot to download and to install but trust me: it's worth every minute.

Morrowind is a hybrid game: half oldskool, half modern. Which means you have to think about what you really want in the game. When in doubt, follow the main quest. It'll give you a good feel where you are. Also, creating a character you enjoy is fundamental. I like 3 different characters:

1 - Dark Elf Destruction specialist with Apprentice birth sign.

2 - Atmer Mage with Atronach birth sign (don't judge me!)

3 - Khajit explorer with a hint of Illusion.

I frankly don't care much about the hack and slash, so i focus on Magic and stealth to keep things fresh and interesting. And, trust me: it is a game where you need to connect with your character, because you'll spend a lot of time together.

Finally, don't ignore some key spells, such as Soul Bind, Jump, Mark/Recall, Levitate and Telekinesis. With a bit of luck and tinkering, you can get items with those effects for you, if you are not proficient enough to cast them reliably.

I was under the impression that one needs to dedicate themselves to either magic or fighting. how decent can one get with magi skills if one is a fighter at heart?

 

[Bambi On Toast]

The first few quests may seem a bit dull for Oblivion, but stick with it. If you feel like you're getting bored of the main quest, spend the next few levels doing side quests or just exploring. Try and do new things like perhaps the Mage Guild! You don't strictly need to be a mage to complete the Mages Guild, which is awesome. The Mages Guild is probably the longest and also the most fun guild surprisingly. When you feel like you want to more about the main story again, just continue with the quests and hope they get more interesting. This is just common sense, but good luck.

Reminds me I need to download Morrowind.... what're the system requirement?

 

[The Almighty Grigard]

*snipped for not being relevant*

I was under the impression that one needs to dedicate themselves to either magic or fighting. how decent can one get with magi skills if one is a fighter at heart?

That is quite easy actually. Just pick the school or schools you are interested as a Major or Minor skill and it will start higher. Then practice it. Make a very low cost, low effect spell and use it over and over again while traveling somewhere. This is easier in Oblivion with the regenerating magicka but you can always rest after spending your magicka. In time your skill in that school of magic will be more than sufficient for emergency spells.

 

[Haxxle]

Well, Morrowind-wise, if you just want to kick thigns off with a very large and consuming bang then I suggest you insert the glitch to max out the key stats, money glitch and implemented 'SP-MP-HP' cheat. I know it will take off the essense of immersion, but for the sake of completing the game I would recommend it otherwise you'll be there for months trying to land a single blow on a scrib thingy. Once you understand the mechanics and the know-how of the game then do the whole game genuinely.

 

[StrixMaxima]

I was under the impression that one needs to dedicate themselves to either magic or fighting. how decent can one get with magi skills if one is a fighter at heart?

Magic evolves with use. If you are a fighter, you need to focus on spell effects to make the best of it. Start with easy spells, such as a Weak Chameleon or a placeable Light (Illusion). Eventually, you'll get skilled enough to cast more complex effects, such as Paralyze and Invisibility.

The game gives you time to grow, so you don't need these effects right away. Some fighting classes have a very decent Personality to begin with, such as the Imperial, which makes Illusion particularly interesting for them.

Just remember that you will need to boost your Intelligence a bit to have a somewhat decent Mana Pool. This won't harm your fighting prowess. But, as a Fighter, choose a few schools and stick with them. Conjuration, Destruction and Enchant are probably out of the picture for you. Illusion, Alteration, Mysticism and Restoration, however, can provide effects that are not too demanding to cast that can save your life or make exploration much more enjoyable.

 

[])rStrangelove]

In Oblivion:

1. Punch a guard in the face with bare hand
2. Agree to go into jail
3. Sleep
4. Get out of jail and position yourself somewhere in the central city.
5. Wait

 

[Vrach]

I guess I'm just unsure what route to take... Do I take the archer route? Do I want to be a fighter or a mage? I know that in Morrowind you kind of have to choose and specialize, but I don't know to what extent... I guess I always get "grass is always greener" syndrome...

Wtih regards to what I prefer, I love me some exploration, but I also do enjoy a good story and sidequest. Very general I know.

With Oblivion, I just always felt guilty about never doing the main quest. When should I start it? Should I hold off on it for a while? Is it best to get rid of the leveling system? Should I choose major skills based on what I use most, or what will make me level up under my control?!

Oh god... so many questions...

Well actually, specialization in both games is just something to start with. Given time, you can be best with everything. I can show you my original Morrowind playthrough with the ubermage sneaking around stabbing people with a dai-katana. I did find it more interesting to specialize though, just figure out what you want to play. And don't feel restrained by it either, if you wanna level up Destruction at one point with your stealthy assassin, just go ahead and do it. If you have to fit it in with your story, focus on Touch spells and treat it as a last resort sort of thing. Or focus on the type of magic that benefits you. Are you a warrior? Do some restoration, make Fortify spells and such. You're an archer? Go into Illusion, make an Invisibility spell to allow you to get some distance when something gets close to you. Etc.

As for your preference, as long as you enjoy exploration and sidequests, you're good. Just do whatever you feel like. I always like RPing in TES games. The very lack of direction they come with let me RP by choosing my own direction. Last Oblivion playthrough I decided right from the start I'd be an assassin archer vampire, so I worked towards that.

Oblivion main quest... as I said, even on the first playthrough, I put it off for a long time. But you can do it sooner as well, it's your choice. I like to flesh out my character at least a little bit, by which I mean just get it enough stuff so he can be self sufficient. You know how when you start, you're not good at anything and you wouldn't dream of just going straight into a nearby cave like that? Well, at the point where that changes and I don't feel like I need to be dependent on quests anymore, I jump into the main story.

As far as the mods go, it's up to you. Personally, I never use any mods for TES games. Weird, I know, but I like them as they are and mods just mean hassle for me. You gotta pick the right ones, be careful not to cross any incompatible mods, deal with extra instability... no thanks. I wouldn't go with any mod that messed with the main features of the game like leveling though. If you want a decent mod, get one for Morrowind that fixes the combat system, I believe there's one that allows you to cast and fight at the same time.

 

[Vrach]

Snip

Your post highlights some reasons why I think TES games are pretentious games that pander to the 'hardcore' crowd, to their general detriment. Anyone can make up an esoteric level/skills system(oblivion) or make navigating your world a ballache(morrowind), but it is not good game design. It just breeds two kinds of responses. Exactly two. People are either put off by it, or they feel like it's some kind of achievement just to play the game, because it's so 'hard'. And I say hard in '', because anyone can make a game complex to the point of being uninviting/threatening. That's what REAL, i.e. pen and paper, rpg's are for.

I think Skyrim will be greatly improved by apparently turning itself into Fallout with swords, rather then trying to pull the same kind of bullshit that Oblivion and Morrowind did.

Ehm, I think you misunderstood me on a few points. Let's start from the top, the "esoteric" level/skills system of Oblivion is absolute bullshit. However, it wasn't designed as such, it just turned out that way. If you think anyone at Bethesda sat there thinking "you know what'd be awesome? If we could make the best player to be the guy who chose the dumbest skills he never uses and make leveling an enormous chore that you'd need a spreadsheet for to get absolutely right!".

No, they were made as is, but the fact is, when you have a huge fanbase, sooner or later, one of them is gonna be a math enthusiast who's gonna find an optimal way to do something and chances are, you wouldn't have thought of that route yourself. It doesn't make the development team stupid to not have thought of it, the dev team counts dozens of people, the fanbase can count millions, so obviously the latter is gonna have more chance of figuring something out as a whole. See WoW for countless examples of players 'playing' the system.

Frankly, as someone who has never played the leveling skills system, but always went with "major and minor skills are what I use most", I always did just fine in both games. It wasn't the optimal route, but the fact is that the optimal route was never required off you in either game.

Onto Morrowind, navigation system isn't a ball ache, it's just... a navigation system. The fact gaming has accepted an all-knowing GPS system as not just a convention, but something that must be in the game and not be optional is nothing short of stupidity. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying it needs to be abolished from games entirely, but an actual navigation system, particularly in the game that's so much about exploration, is in no way bad game design, quite the opposite and should be an option in more games (I'm not saying I'd always use it, but sometimes, it makes the game more enjoyable).

Oh and Morrowind was never designed to be uninviting or threatening, it was just designed before a lot of gaming standards that made games easier came into being or became a convention. You say it breeds two kind of responses, but I had a third one, I just enjoyed it for what it was. Don't get me wrong, I was put off by it at first too, but when I gave it a chance, I really, really came to enjoy it and it ended up being my all time favourite game (and I am NOT a person who likes ridiculously impossible difficulty, QUITE the opposite, I think it bad game design and always wanna punch the developer in the face for being stupid about it).

First off, yes, there was a rewarding feeling that stemmed from the increased difficulty of the situation. But that's not pandering to the hardcore, that's simple understanding of the relation between difficulty and reward. You one shot something called a "boss", do you feel like you've done something? Now you fight a boss for a while, figure out how to defeat him and do it, do you feel like you've accomplished something? Now compare the two, of course the latter feels more rewarding. Same goes for being told "follow the road that goes north and turn right when you get to the river" compared to "yeah, let me just put a GPS locator on your map". Also, Morrowind had plenty of moments where someone who was explaining to you where to go would mark the general area on your map - and that kinda gave you the best of both worlds.

I agree it shouldn't be aggressively difficult to just make you feel "holy shit, that was so difficult, I feel so badass", but there should be some difficulty with it or you don't feel like you're doing much more than clicking through the game like it's a prolonged QTE cutscene.

Being told "go north" rather than being given a GPS location of something is not something I'd call hardcore objectively. Yes, it's hardcore compared to some current gaming standards, but with that relativity, it's hardcore for the fat lazy ************ to do one pushup, it doesn't make it difficult. It's just an alternative method and one that requires a LOT more work from the developer (because you have to be given the right directions, which is a lot harder than just putting a dot on the map and telling you "it's here, go get it")

 

[Sam Eskenazi]

snip

So, the leveling thins isn't a real bother, in Oblivion? What about the inherent annoyance of finding bandits with daedric armour? Isn't that kinda silly? I just... laways feel bad modding it and then realizing that I might like it better originally...

So, just pick what you like? Problem is, I don't know what I like. I usually choose stabby and sneaky in Oblivion, and in other games I'm often just fighty with a little spellcasting here and there. However, I'm always thinking "what if something else was more fun?" I don't want to redo the whole game because I made the wrong decision, so I quit...

Curse my indecisiveness!

Sam,

 

[Vrach]

I don't think Devs are stupid, I think they're extremely clever. To think that these systems aren't maticulously designed is simply wrong. If an RPG can be defined by one thing, then it's level up/upgrade system, and something like what the highest possible numbers mean for things like balance and gameplay would be discussed and worked on probably more then any single thing.

I disdain insulting peoples intelligence, but I only have what you've written to go on, but surely you can't think these things pop up by accident? Sometimes something may be stronger in practice then on paper, and foresight only goes so far. This is proven every time there is a need for patches and fixing in online games. But the entire stat and level up system for an RPG? No, sorry dude, every facet of that is absolutely designed

See, your point would be valid if we were talking about an online game where there was some competition, or if the TES games were ridiculously hard. Problem is, neither of those are true. Even by not following the optimal route laid out by the spreadsheet nerds, you still end up being overpowered in TES games without even trying (yes, even in Oblivion that has monsters level with you). And there's no competition, so the only thing you get by following what the spreadsheet nerds say is being even more overpowered, which, if anything, makes the game less enjoyable.

So yes, I do think it's merely an oversight. You see it as big, but you're missing the fact it's irrelevant. It's like finding an infinite gold exploit (and FYI, there's one of those in Morrowind too). How could something that significant happen in a game? Because no one gives a shit. It's not like you're getting richer than someone else and it's not like you're overcoming a huge obstacle by doing it, you're just lessening your own experience through using it and it was a mistake, either an overlooked one or one that wasn't thought important enough to fix because you gained nothing and lost everything (gaining being overpowered and losing character definition by choosing stupid skills)

Also, you say they're extremely clever with the implementation of the leveling system, I take issue with that. An extremely clever system that goes against the very core of itself? The game asks you, it even designs a mini-psychological test to tell you "pick major skills that are absolutely vital to your gameplay and minor skills that will supplement them and are just slightly less important". And then the optimal route turns out to be "pick both major and minor skills as stuff that you would never ever normally use so you can game your stats the way you want to". No, that's not clever, that's an oversight.

To give you a WoW example, clever design is how WoW designs classes to have an optimal route to max out their stuff and meticulously measure out how good you'll be, both on the way and at the end. Not clever is when shit like one shot fire mages happen because they haven't designed their system to prevent that. Is it a big deal? Yes. Is it designed to work that way? Not unless you're one of those people who shout "Blizzard employees play mages".

 

[electoriate]

Ahoy there,

Two problems:

1. I've never got past the first hour of Morrowind! I make a character, do all the beginning stuff, do a couple quests, explore a cave and then... I quit. I don't know why. The inherent confusion? Not knowing what the hell I'm doing? I don't know... Point is I just stop, and I don't know why...

2. I've played and re-played Oblivion like 4-5 times now, but I've never finished it. I always do the same thing! I make a stealthy character and do the Dark Brotherhood lines. Sometimes I do the fighter guild as well, and the mage's, and sometimes the Arena. But I do little else! I've only ever done the first quest for the main plot line and a bunch of side quests, then get sidetracked and never finish it... appaling.

Can someone suggest something to help me out? Mods, perhaps? The problem with TES mods is that there are so many of them! I install some, then think "maybe other mods are better!". If I get rid of the silly leveling system, I then think "but I should be playing it Vanilla"

Any suggestions? Mods? Therapy?

Sam,

Those are huge games, and you can't just burn through them. You have to play them for months, even years. You might even need a six months pause from the game before you continue. Also, the setting of TES needs some time to sink in with most of the players.

Mods do help. The Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul is essential and makes the game more interesting to play in the long run.

 

[Vrach]

snip

So, the leveling thins isn't a real bother, in Oblivion? What about the inherent annoyance of finding bandits with daedric armour? Isn't that kinda silly? I just... laways feel bad modding it and then realizing that I might like it better originally...

So, just pick what you like? Problem is, I don't know what I like. I usually choose stabby and sneaky in Oblivion, and in other games I'm often just fighty with a little spellcasting here and there. However, I'm always thinking "what if something else was more fun?" I don't want to redo the whole game because I made the wrong decision, so I quit...

Curse my indecisiveness!

Sam,

Yeah I've heard the indecisiveness argument about TES before, but I can't help you there. Think of a character, think of some backstory and go with that. That's what I do. Or if you're less RP inclined, just go with what you're most into. You like stealth and stabbing, go for it. You wanna do magic later, just build on the character you have instead of rerolling. As I said, my last Oblivion character was a stealthy archer assassin. That didn't prevent me from giving her a bunch of fire spells to fuck everything up with though. If you haven't picked Destruction as your Major/Minor skill, it doesn't matter - it doesn't mean you'll be any less effective with it at all. It's not like picking a Rogue and wanting to play a Mage, TES lets you do whatever you want, there's no bonus to skills other than the initial points to start you off.

Bandits with Deadric armor bothers you? Can't say I share the sentiment. Just deal with the fact bandits get more clever and kill/rob wealthier/more powerful targets as the game progresses. I fail to see the difference between that and playing WoW, killing a water elemental that drops gray items in a level 10 zone and a renamed water elemental that drops epic items in a level 85 zone.

 

[Hyper-space]

Snip

Your post highlights some reasons why I think TES games are pretentious games that pander to the 'hardcore' crowd, to their general detriment. Anyone can make up an esoteric level/skills system(oblivion) or make navigating your world a ballache(morrowind), but it is not good game design. It just breeds two kinds of responses. Exactly two. People are either put off by it, or they feel like it's some kind of achievement just to play the game, because it's so 'hard'. And I say hard in '', because anyone can make a game complex to the point of being uninviting/threatening. That's what REAL, i.e. pen and paper, rpg's are for.

I think Skyrim will be greatly improved by apparently turning itself into Fallout with swords, rather then trying to pull the same kind of bullshit that Oblivion and Morrowind did.

This.

Obtuse gameplay design and interface is not hard, but shit. People shouldn't equate broken gameplay and meaningless menu-surfing (lack of interface efficiency =/= complex) with actual difficulty and complex gameplay.