Hey. I heard you booked this flight legally. GET OFF THE F***ING PLANE!!!!

TallestGargoyle

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KissingSunlight said:
How was this company "stupid at every stage"? They found out after they loaded the people on this plane that they needed four seats for their employees to go their next assignment.
They continued to book flights without issue to people despite not having enough seats. It's a shitty unnecessary practise. I'd rather have more expensive plane tickets that guarantee me space on a flight than cheaper ones that let a company fuck over my travel.

They continued to process people onto this particular flight despite not having enough seats. Processing at airports is fucking horrible. It takes ages, you have to be there with so much time to spare, and you're stuck in waiting areas for mind-numbing amounts of time.

They decided that this plane in particular would be used to send staff elsewhere despite not having enough seats. I simply don't believe that moving the workers was so damn necessary that this one plane was the only journey they could have taken.

They decided to select a doctor as one of the people to be held behind, who unfortunately have very busy schedules, whose time is far more directly related to other people's lives than literally anyone else on that damn plane.
 

Blitsie

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Parasondox said:
Silentpony said:
Okay so I saw news that Dr man once got busted for trading drugs for sex. That was the wrong thing to do, but how is it relevant to him being beaten and dragged off a plane? The dude could have been a convicted murderer and it still wouldn't matter as long as he was legally traveling! Which, from what I can tell, he totally was.

Past crimes don't mean nothing illegal will ever happen to them.
Welcome to whats wrong with the news media. They want to look for the bad side to everyone and sell it as expensive crap. They want to turn a normal everyday person into the villain they want us to hate. They did it to the guy who discovered the kidnapped women and now him. Fuck them with a mouldy wooden spoon. They just want ratings and a story they can sex up.
Or even a completely innocuous guy like Ken Bone who just shared his opinion in public.

I actually experienced the worst of these scum vultures myself last year; A large group of students started a movement here to make public Universities free and took up protesting. According to the media, these "revolutionaries" were fighting for what they felt was right and sticking it to the big man so that the poorer souls among us who can't afford anything can study and lead better lives.

As both a student and hired protection for the students at the one university, the truth actually is that these students were failing their degrees and set out to disrupt the Universities enough to avoid exams and their inevitable failure by forcing them to close. They did this through assaulting students and lecturers (one student died even), vandalizing lecture halls, burning cars and later on having their cause become politically and racially driven to gather larger numbers, victimizing white people becoming one of the main goals at one point. So when the consequences of their shitty behavior caught up? They turned to the media and the media just ate up every single bit, outing white people, students who just want to study and be done, and the police as evil in this story for daring to uphold the law and defending themselves from being victimized.

Fuck the media is all I can say, with a heated, spiked steel rod.
 

Eclipse Dragon

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If there was ever any doubt about how much of a PR nightmare this story is for United, the memes on my Facebook feed this week have drove the point home.


[footnote]It's fake, Southwest didn't make this, but still[/footnote]
 

Elijin

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For those playing the doctor card:
His position, alongside his past should hold no place in this conversation. But if you're going to stand up and say as a doctor he deserved to get home in order to attend to his busy schedule potentially saving people's lives...

Well you should probably take note of the fact sources indicate his license to practice medicine was suspended for 13 years between 2003-2016, and has only been reinstated in a provisionary capacity after extensive review. He's allowed to practice medicine 1 day a week in out-patient facilities. His schedule is neither full or involving anyone at serious risk.

Now, I dont think either of those points hold any ground in a discussion about the excessive force used against this man. Im just putting it out there for those who are insistant on bringing in his character as a doctor as if it has any bearing.

So yeah, friendly reminder that this is a case of excessive force, the United Airlines parts are nearly irrelevant. Dont believe me? Tell me a single thing about the other 3 passengers who were deboarded. Oh right, they werent subjected to the mistreatment at the hands of the officers, so its not newsworthy.
 

Parasondox

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Elijin said:
For those playing the doctor card:
His position, alongside his past should hold no place in this conversation. But if you're going to stand up and say as a doctor he deserved to get home in order to attend to his busy schedule potentially saving people's lives...

Well you should probably take note of the fact sources indicate his license to practice medicine was suspended for 13 years between 2003-2016, and has only been reinstated in a provisionary capacity after extensive review. He's allowed to practice medicine 1 day a week in out-patient facilities. His schedule is neither full or involving anyone at serious risk.

Now, I dont think either of those points hold any ground in a discussion about the excessive force used against this man. Im just putting it out there for those who are insistant on bringing in his character as a doctor as if it has any bearing.

So yeah, friendly reminder that this is a case of excessive force, the United Airlines parts are nearly irrelevant. Dont believe me? Tell me a single thing about the other 3 passengers who were deboarded. Oh right, they werent subjected to the mistreatment at the hands of the officers, so its not newsworthy.
If they dont hold ground as you stated, why talk about it? You are contradicting yourself. The subject is about that matter in time. The incident that happened on the plane and on airport grounds.
 

Nielas

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Elijin said:
For those playing the doctor card:
His position, alongside his past should hold no place in this conversation. But if you're going to stand up and say as a doctor he deserved to get home in order to attend to his busy schedule potentially saving people's lives...

Well you should probably take note of the fact sources indicate his license to practice medicine was suspended for 13 years between 2003-2016, and has only been reinstated in a provisionary capacity after extensive review. He's allowed to practice medicine 1 day a week in out-patient facilities. His schedule is neither full or involving anyone at serious risk.
That might explain why he refused to leave his seat. He would have to wait most of a day for another flight and would have to reschedule all his patients for another week and it might look back on his license review.

Elijin said:
Now, I dont think either of those points hold any ground in a discussion about the excessive force used against this man. Im just putting it out there for those who are insistant on bringing in his character as a doctor as if it has any bearing.

So yeah, friendly reminder that this is a case of excessive force, the United Airlines parts are nearly irrelevant. Dont believe me? Tell me a single thing about the other 3 passengers who were deboarded. Oh right, they werent subjected to the mistreatment at the hands of the officers, so its not newsworthy.
It actually feeds into a lot of they issues people have with the airline industry. It was caused by a practice that most people find highly unethical. Flying has become a extremely stressful activity and people are tired of the BS that the airline industry gets away. Most of us can sympathize if airline personnel overreact to a security issue but this was simply about United saving a few bucks. If I was in that situation, I would be pissed off and tempted to tell the airline to fuck off. For many people this incident is proof that the airlines have been given too much power to screw over its customers.
 

Ravenbom

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I want to be clear: I definitely think United is largely at fault here and overbooking flights is something lawmakers should readdress.

BUT - that guy clearly had a panic attack and there was no way in hell he could remain on that plane. He did need to be removed. AND unfortunately, he's in violation of our federally regulated airspace. That's really bad.
At least in state level crimes, if you have to serve jail time, you do it in state. That's not always the case with federal.

He's gonna be charged and fined with a lot of steep federal fines. I'm glad there's public outrage and video of this because I'm sure United will probably pay the fines. But that won't stop him from being charged. Here's why that's an important distinction.

The fact remains that he is a doctor and should remain professional under duress. He had a panic attack, I do not blame him, HOWEVER, different state medical boards will look at this differently, and in this very public case, will likely allow him to keep his license because of undue duress from circumstances outside of his control.

But if this hadn't been so public, causing such a huge outrage, it's very likely that by committing a Federal level crime he would lose his ability to ever practice medicine again. Any criminal conviction unrelated to the practice of medicine can result in license restrictions or loss.


He's old enough that he may be set up for retirement, but he may have just lost his livelihood. And it's partly his fault for being a doctor and not recognizing his own panic attack before he let it set in.
Don't mistake me, I have great sympathy. What is he going to do now? Be a 69 year old PhD bar-back? I fear he might be forced into retirement, I just hope he's financially secure enough to do it.
 

dragoongfa

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Ravenbom said:
I don't think that the panic attack angle will fly, with a cursory look the panic attack (if proven) was caused by the use of force at the behest of the airline. One doesn't expect to be beaten and dragged off a plane he has already boarded because the airline fucked up. To get a panic attack in that situation is like getting one after being attacked in the middle of the street in broad daylight.

I expect that the vast majority of people, regardless of profession, would be agitated and even panic stricken if someone walked up to them and started beating them for a reason they feel was unjustified.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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The first time i seen this thread, and was not expecting to find such pro-business/anti-consumer people insistent on demonising the doctor while defending this violent practice. It boglins the mind that others can so naturally reduce other humans to mere hindering objects in a production line while promoting the importance and sympathy for companies. As if the company y is more human than us mere creatures, getting in the way of their deeds. Entire media outlets dedicated to this exact mindset, appealing to and convincing people less critically minded to root for entities that not only do not care about them, but are actively looking to take advantage of them. Like...What the hell? How does a mind work like that? It's a clear abuse of power that could and should have easily been avoided. No excuses, no distractions, deflections or demonisation...It should not be accepted behaviour towards paying customers, especially with personal obligations towards society.
 

TechNoFear

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This will be a cautionary tale for marketing students for decades to come; how United under estimated the power of social media and cost itself hundreds of millions.

BTW Delta airlines is now offering up to US$10,000 in similar cases (rather than the US DOT required 4x the cost of the ticket to a max of US$1,350 for delays of 4 hours or more).

Ravenbom said:
He's gonna be charged and fined with a lot of steep federal fines.
I doubt that very much. Everyone (apart from the passenger) wants this to go away as quietly as possible, so the passenger will not be charged.

Looking past the use of force issue.

There was a monumental failure in duty of care by those 3 officers. They allowed a concussed passenger, bleeding with a broken nose and two missing teeth, to 'escape' in a secure section of the airport and re-board the plane.

Do you think the airport, police and airline want to explain how he managed to evade 3 officers, bypass all security and get on board a plane? I don't think so....
 

4Aces

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TechNoFear said:
Do you think the airport, police and airline want to explain how he managed to evade 3 officers, bypass all security and get on board a plane? I don't think so....
No more than the JFK's security team wanted to explain how a jet skier managed to walk, slowly, with frequent stops to wave at security cameras for 10+ minutes, managed to go from the water to the main concourse without anyone noticing him. Especially since he was wearing a day-glow Orange life vest. These kind of things tend to disappear under a mountain of hush-money (plus golden tickets for the whole family). In that case it was JFK, in this United. That is if their stock does not hit backruptcy levels beforehand.
 

KissingSunlight

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This link is related to this thread and the spin-off thread that I created. Since, it's specifically about the United incident. I'll leave it here. Here is a response that is really comprehensive on why I am against the way this guy reacted to being asked to leave the plane.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/15495/mike-rowe-offers-refreshingly-different-frank-camp?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro
 

Secondhand Revenant

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KissingSunlight said:
This link is related to this thread and the spin-off thread that I created. Since, it's specifically about the United incident. I'll leave it here. Here is a response that is really comprehensive on why I am against the way this guy reacted to being asked to leave the plane.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/15495/mike-rowe-offers-refreshingly-different-frank-camp?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro
Eh dude needs a spine. They should require a good reason to eject a passenger. Trying to maximize profit and minimize what they pay is not an acceptable reason to reneg on a deal. Abusing authority shouldn't be defended.
 

KissingSunlight

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The Decapitated Centaur said:
KissingSunlight said:
This link is related to this thread and the spin-off thread that I created. Since, it's specifically about the United incident. I'll leave it here. Here is a response that is really comprehensive on why I am against the way this guy reacted to being asked to leave the plane.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/15495/mike-rowe-offers-refreshingly-different-frank-camp?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro
Eh dude needs a spine. They should require a good reason to eject a passenger. Trying to maximize profit and minimize what they pay is not an acceptable reason to reneg on a deal. Abusing authority shouldn't be defended.
You missed the point along with everyone else excusing this guy's behavior. It doesn't matter if you agree that United should have asked four passengers to leave the plane after they boarded. It's how this guy reacted when he was asked to leave. United making a mistake and this guy behaving badly on a board are not exclusive. It's clear that both has happened.

The reason I started the other thread was I got tired of people making excuses for inexcusable behavior. I think this last thing he said, in response to the question, summed up why my reaction to what this guy did was "Fuck This Guy!"

Personally, I support this policy(Having the ability to kick people off a plane). I support it because I don't want to fly across the country in a steel tube filled with people who get to decide which rules they will follow and which they will ignore. I've been on too many flights with too many angry people to worry about the specific circumstances of their outrage, or the details of why they took it upon themselves to ignore a direct command. A plane is not a democracy, and the main cabin is no place to organize a sit-in. The main cabin is a place to follow orders.
 

Saelune

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KissingSunlight said:
The Decapitated Centaur said:
KissingSunlight said:
This link is related to this thread and the spin-off thread that I created. Since, it's specifically about the United incident. I'll leave it here. Here is a response that is really comprehensive on why I am against the way this guy reacted to being asked to leave the plane.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/15495/mike-rowe-offers-refreshingly-different-frank-camp?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro
Eh dude needs a spine. They should require a good reason to eject a passenger. Trying to maximize profit and minimize what they pay is not an acceptable reason to reneg on a deal. Abusing authority shouldn't be defended.
You missed the point along with everyone else excusing this guy's behavior. It doesn't matter if you agree that United should have asked four passengers to leave the plane after they boarded. It's how this guy reacted when he was asked to leave. United making a mistake and this guy behaving badly on a board are not exclusive. It's clear that both has happened.

The reason I started the other thread was I got tired of people making excuses for inexcusable behavior. I think this last thing he said, in response to the question, summed up why my reaction to what this guy did was "Fuck This Guy!"

Personally, I support this policy(Having the ability to kick people off a plane). I support it because I don?t want to fly across the country in a steel tube filled with people who get to decide which rules they will follow and which they will ignore. I?ve been on too many flights with too many angry people to worry about the specific circumstances of their outrage, or the details of why they took it upon themselves to ignore a direct command. A plane is not a democracy, and the main cabin is no place to organize a sit-in. The main cabin is a place to follow orders.
Your criteria for what makes a person in the wrong is quite poor.

Reminds me when my grandparents got annoyed at a waiter for saying "No Problem" instead of "You're welcome".

Edit: I still think you are oblivious to the irony of you making a topic about people excusing bad behavior, yet you continually are guilty of it yourself.
 

Secondhand Revenant

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KissingSunlight said:
The Decapitated Centaur said:
KissingSunlight said:
This link is related to this thread and the spin-off thread that I created. Since, it's specifically about the United incident. I'll leave it here. Here is a response that is really comprehensive on why I am against the way this guy reacted to being asked to leave the plane.

http://www.dailywire.com/news/15495/mike-rowe-offers-refreshingly-different-frank-camp?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=social&utm_content=062316-news&utm_campaign=benshapiro
Eh dude needs a spine. They should require a good reason to eject a passenger. Trying to maximize profit and minimize what they pay is not an acceptable reason to reneg on a deal. Abusing authority shouldn't be defended.
You missed the point along with everyone else excusing this guy's behavior. It doesn't matter if you agree that United should have asked four passengers to leave the plane after they boarded. It's how this guy reacted when he was asked to leave. United making a mistake and this guy behaving badly on a board are not exclusive. It's clear that both has happened.

The reason I started the other thread was I got tired of people making excuses for inexcusable behavior. I think this last thing he said, in response to the question, summed up why my reaction to what this guy did was "Fuck This Guy!"

Personally, I support this policy(Having the ability to kick people off a plane). I support it because I don?t want to fly across the country in a steel tube filled with people who get to decide which rules they will follow and which they will ignore. I?ve been on too many flights with too many angry people to worry about the specific circumstances of their outrage, or the details of why they took it upon themselves to ignore a direct command. A plane is not a democracy, and the main cabin is no place to organize a sit-in. The main cabin is a place to follow orders.
I'm pretty sure you opened the other thread because you're lacking when it comes to understanding why anyone would disagree with you.

Anyways, it shows you lack the ability to recognize bad orders. If a cop tells you "I'm gonna take you to jail because I don't like you" that's not really a lawful order. If someone says "I'm going to take back this thing I sold you and give you 5 dollars as compensation" that's not really something that should be listened to.

Instead of being blindly devoted to 'following orders', a bit of thought might help. Like what kind of rational being starts acting like there's some kind of danger because of flouting this particular order? There isn't. That's easy enough to figure out. That poor moron you quoted is just committing a slippery slope fallacy. There's no rational reason to think refusing an order to be replaced by someone else and being refused the service they accepted money for is going to lead to utter chaos in the air.
 

TechNoFear

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KissingSunlight said:
You missed the point along with everyone else excusing this guy's behavior.
I think it is you who missed the point..

United ordered 4 people to get off the plane, 3 complied and 1 refused.

Because 1 consumer refused, standing up for their rights under the contract, other consumers are already seeing benefits.

Other airlines are now ensuring this sort of debacle never happens to them. [ie Delta has increased the compensation for overbooking from US$800 to US$2,000, supervisors can offer ~US$10,000].

BTW Your link is incorrect.

United airlines do not have the right to remove you from the plane for any reason they feel like or if they ask you to leave.

Under the contract United Airlines can only remove you from the plane for safety or security reasons (as per the Conditions of Carriage and US DOT regulations).
 

Secondhand Revenant

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TechNoFear said:
KissingSunlight said:
You missed the point along with everyone else excusing this guy's behavior.
I think it is you who missed the point..

United ordered 4 people to get off the plane, 3 complied and 1 refused.

Because 1 consumer refused, standing up for their rights under the contract, other consumers are already seeing benefits.

Other airlines are now ensuring this sort of debacle never happens to them. [ie Delta has increased the compensation for overbooking from US$800 to US$2,000, supervisors can offer ~US$10,000].

BTW Your link is incorrect.

United airlines do not have the right to remove you from the plane for any reason they feel like or if they ask you to leave.

Under the contract United Airlines can only remove you from the plane for safety or security reasons (as per the Conditions of Carriage and US DOT regulations).
I think it's kind of amazing that some people have obedience so ingrained in them that they expect people to follow orders someone has no right to give just because it's an order.
 

KissingSunlight

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The Decapitated Centaur said:
I think it's kind of amazing that some people have obedience so ingrained in them that they expect people to follow orders someone has no right to give just because it's an order.
I find it amazing that people believe that they should do whatever they feel like doing regardless of the rules. "A cop telling me I'm arrested. Fuck HIM! I am just going to ignore him and continue doing whatever I feel like. OMG! I'm now a victim of police brutality."

TechNoFear said:
KissingSunlight said:
You missed the point along with everyone else excusing this guy's behavior.
I think it is you who missed the point..

United ordered 4 people to get off the plane, 3 complied and 1 refused.

Because 1 consumer refused, standing up for their rights under the contract, other consumers are already seeing benefits.

Other airlines are now ensuring this sort of debacle never happens to them. [ie Delta has increased the compensation for overbooking from US$800 to US$2,000, supervisors can offer ~US$10,000].

BTW Your link is incorrect.

United airlines do not have the right to remove you from the plane for any reason they feel like or if they ask you to leave.

Under the contract United Airlines can only remove you from the plane for safety or security reasons (as per the Conditions of Carriage and US DOT regulations).
Do you seriously believe that businesses don't have a right to tell people to leave their establishments? Have you ever read the sign "We reserve the right to refuse service"? Businesses do have rights. One of those rights is to kick out people who are being detrimental to their business.

The Decapitated Centaur said:
Anyways, it shows you lack the ability to recognize bad orders. If a cop tells you "I'm gonna take you to jail because I don't like you" that's not really a lawful order. If someone says "I'm going to take back this thing I sold you and give you 5 dollars as compensation" that's not really something that should be listened to.

Instead of being blindly devoted to 'following orders', a bit of thought might help. Like what kind of rational being starts acting like there's some kind of danger because of flouting this particular order? There isn't. That's easy enough to figure out. That poor moron you quoted is just committing a slippery slope fallacy. There's no rational reason to think refusing an order to be replaced by someone else and being refused the service they accepted money for is going to lead to utter chaos in the air.
If a cop tells me that and arrest me, I would get his name and badge number. I would contact my lawyer. File a report of false arrest. You know. I would act like a mature adult and follow the law. Even when your rights are being violated. I wouldn't resist arrest, attack the police officer, or do anything else that would help the case of the police officer falsely arresting me.

I would recommend using "a bit of thought" yourself.