High-Powered Hardware Isn't Enough to Make Project Scorpio Succeed

ffronw

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High-Powered Hardware Isn't Enough to Make Project Scorpio Succeed

Microsoft needs more than hardware to make Project Scorpio a success - it needs more good games.

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Saltyk

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Sep 12, 2010
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Amen.

At the end of the day, if I really wanted to play any Xbox exclusive, I'd just go the PC route. But if I want to play Horizon: Zero Dawn or The Last of Us, I need a Sony console. There's literally no reason to get an Xbox unless you're really attached to your Gamertag, friends list, and achievements.
 

fix-the-spade

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I would argue that even Forza is no longer king of the hill.

Sim racers almost universally pay a subscription to iRacing now. It's the only one where there is a realistic chance of running into actual racing drivers in the online, although it's almost too like reality at times.

The Forza games were great, but I haven't looked at them in years now.
 

Fiz_The_Toaster

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I was actually really happy when Microsoft was finally reversing a lot of their early decisions since it making their console seem unappealing. I thought that they might actually seem like a good rival to Sony now considering how Sony removed their heads from their ass and got all those exclusives and awesome games.

Now? Not so much.

I don't know why they are doing the Play Anywhere since it kind of defeats the purpose of owning an Xbox and I would much rather get a PC rig if that's what they're going to do. They lost a lot of their interesting titles, and Scalebound looked super fun.

I honestly don't know what they are doing, and I don't know why they are pushing the specs thing so hard since the only that matters right for them are the games. Which right now they are really lacking and it's really pathetic.

I know they've said that they're gonna show a lot during E3, but they've said that last year too and it wasn't that great of a showing. So, we'll see.
 

ffronw

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Exclusives for consoles are just an admission that your company's engineers are pathetic company dead-weight and can not fight with hardware and OS.

As it is, the Xbone Scorpios is a as good as a 200 dollar GPU + 60 dollar CPU. It is still weak. It has better modding and backwards compatibility though, so if some monolingual american console user forced me to choose a conslow at gunpoint, it would be the Xbone Scorpio :p
 

munx13

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Console sales are driven by Fifa, Madden, CoD, the occasional GTA, etc. People want a box to play those on and PS4 was the cheaper box this generation, much like 360 the previous one.
One glance at the top 10 best seller charts shows just how meaningless games like Bloodborne are in the grand scheme of things.
 
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Ultimately, the more powerful console in a two horse race is irrelevant. Since the majority of games are developed cross-platform, they're going to be made for the lower spec of the two. They aren't going to change models or textures between platforms. Hell, they barely optimise much beyond ensuring they work. Any grunt under the hood of Scorpio above and beyond the PS4 Pro may as well not be there for the difference it will make (or won't, in this case).

The 4K Blu Ray drive is the one feature that might be a clincher in making a sale, and then it won't be for the gaming but for the movie playback to the tiny, tiny number of people who are going the 4K route.
 

gorfias

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I just put an RX 480 card in my computer and its really nice but it cost as much as a black Friday Xbox 1S bundle. I don't think the threat of people choosing only one or the other is going to be that decisive. Plenty of people are going to want a Scorpio for a premium experience and maybe also a decent gaming rig that has its uses but unless you are ready to spend a fortune is not going to be in the same league as the Scorpio. I can't wait to see the thing for real.
 

DarklordKyo

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Saltyk said:
Amen.

At the end of the day, if I really wanted to play any Xbox exclusive, I'd just go the PC route. But if I want to play Horizon: Zero Dawn or The Last of Us, I need a Sony console. There's literally no reason to get an Xbox unless you're really attached to your Gamertag, friends list, and achievements.
Even then, Windows 10 has native Xbox integration with Windows Store apps, yes?
 

008Zulu_v1legacy

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Microsoft have their own game studio, who have been shown to produce some truly excellent games. Why they haven't been fully tapped to produce content is confusing to me.
 

DarklordKyo

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008Zulu said:
Microsoft have their own game studio, who have been shown to produce some truly excellent games. Why they haven't been fully tapped to produce content is confusing to me.
Bureaucracy, apparently
 

ffronw

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Gorfias said:
I just put an RX 480 card in my computer and its really nice but it cost as much as a black Friday Xbox 1S bundle. I don't think the threat of people choosing only one or the other is going to be that decisive. Plenty of people are going to want a Scorpio for a premium experience and maybe also a decent gaming rig that has its uses but unless you are ready to spend a fortune is not going to be in the same league as the Scorpio. I can't wait to see the thing for real.
Console gaming costs a LOT more than PC gaming.

The Xbox One S is around 25% weaker than an RX 460 BTW. The 480 literally curbstomps it.
 

gorfias

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Adam Jensen said:
The original Xbox was more powerful than the PS2. It didn't matter without proper exclusives.
There was a lot more to it than that. I think the PS2 had been out for a year before the Xbox. It was BC with PS1 so you had a built in base of users. Xbox was a far superior piece of hardware but could not catch up with the momentum of the PS2. Not even close.

Charcharo said:
Console gaming costs a LOT more than PC gaming.
Games for PC CAN be a lot cheaper. But if you want a new AAA title, It's likely going to cost 60 bucks either way. And I'm starting to see some pretty cheap dl and even free games on the PS4 and XB1. So it comes down to the hardware...

The Xbox One S is around 25% weaker than an RX 460 BTW. The 480 literally curbstomps it.
But it doesn't have the overhead of a full blow PC. What ends up happening is that a console can provide a better experience with less hardware.

I hear that in performance, the Scorpio is out performing a $400 GTX 1070. Example:

 

ffronw

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Gorfias said:
Adam Jensen said:
The original Xbox was more powerful than the PS2. It didn't matter without proper exclusives.
There was a lot more to it than that. I think the PS2 had been out for a year before the Xbox. It was BC with PS1 so you had a built in base of users. Xbox was a far superior piece of hardware but could not catch up with the momentum of the PS2. Not even close.

Charcharo said:
Console gaming costs a LOT more than PC gaming.
Games for PC CAN be a lot cheaper. But if you want a new AAA title, It's likely going to cost 60 bucks either way. And I'm starting to see some pretty cheap dl and even free games on the PS4 and XB1. So it comes down to the hardware...

The Xbox One S is around 25% weaker than an RX 460 BTW. The 480 literally curbstomps it.
But it doesn't have the overhead of a full blow PC. What ends up happening is that a console can provide a better experience with less hardware.

I hear that in performance, the Scorpio is out performing a $400 GTX 1070. Example:

I live in Eastern Europe. People here make 400 euro a month. Taxes are around 17%. Everything that is electronic has a 20% tax on top.

PC Gaming is cheaper. Full stop. Console gaming looks cheaper to the Rich Americans, but they dont do the math long term either :p

Console optimization is overestimated. Remember, PC has low level APIs too. In the Xbox 360 and PS3 era, the console optimization accounted for 25% extra performance. These days? More like 5-10% at the most for a console.

Here is some info:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDmC04GHhRE

And the Potato Masher:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH6FCgqQB_s&index=84&list=PLQbCPWtOQp0FoY_-7GwWSErWP2j7--Hh5

Whoever told you the Scorpios is as powerful as a GTX 1070 lied to you. The Fury X has 8.6 Teraflops. Why does it lose to the 980 Ti and GTX 1070?
*It isnt the VRAM BTW.
 

Arnoxthe1

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You wanna know what's really frustrating... ?

The Microsoft games division is sitting on a GOLD MINE of IPs. Freelancer, Halo, Fable, Perfect Dark, Banjo Kazooie, MINECRAFT for fucks sake!

And here they are wondering how they'll ever get ahead of big ol' Sony and Nintendo. It's just a fucking disgrace. Someone or some people need to be replaced badly. Especially after the shitshow that was Halo 5. They could be making so much money right now but no... I guess that makes too much sense.
 

gorfias

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Charcharo said:
PC Gaming is cheaper. Full stop. Console gaming looks cheaper to the Rich Americans, but they dont do the math long term either :p

Console optimization is overestimated. Remember, PC has low level APIs too. In the Xbox 360 and PS3 era, the console optimization accounted for 25% extra performance. These days? More like 5-10% at the most for a console.

Here is some info:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDmC04GHhRE

And the Potato Masher:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH6FCgqQB_s&index=84&list=PLQbCPWtOQp0FoY_-7GwWSErWP2j7--Hh5

Whoever told you the Scorpios is as powerful as a GTX 1070 lied to you. The Fury X has 8.6 Teraflops. Why does it lose to the 980 Ti and GTX 1070?
*It isnt the VRAM BTW.
I'll have to check your links. Thanks for sharing.

I concede: I am torn. If I have a single Xbox controller receiver on a PC, would I be able to use multiple controllers to play multiplayer games? I have NBA 2016 on PC for instance.

If the Scorpio is over the $500 price point, I really could build something that would instantly have all my GOG, Steam, Origin and Uplay games on it, ready for download. PCs are flexible.

Reviewing.

EDIT: Potato Masher is fun. I'll look for the specs used. Including a Windows 10 64 Bit Pro edition could take this build to over $600 though. I use newegg.com for my shopping.
 

ffronw

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Gorfias said:
Charcharo said:
PC Gaming is cheaper. Full stop. Console gaming looks cheaper to the Rich Americans, but they dont do the math long term either :p

Console optimization is overestimated. Remember, PC has low level APIs too. In the Xbox 360 and PS3 era, the console optimization accounted for 25% extra performance. These days? More like 5-10% at the most for a console.

Here is some info:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDmC04GHhRE

And the Potato Masher:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH6FCgqQB_s&index=84&list=PLQbCPWtOQp0FoY_-7GwWSErWP2j7--Hh5

Whoever told you the Scorpios is as powerful as a GTX 1070 lied to you. The Fury X has 8.6 Teraflops. Why does it lose to the 980 Ti and GTX 1070?
*It isnt the VRAM BTW.
I'll have to check your links. Thanks for sharing.

I concede: I am torn. If I have a single Xbox controller receiver on a PC, would I be able to use multiple controllers to play multiplayer games? I have NBA 2016 on PC for instance.

If the Scorpio is over the $500 price point, I really could build something that would instantly have all my GOG, Steam, Origin and Uplay games on it, ready for download. PCs are flexible.

Reviewing.

EDIT: Potato Masher is fun. I'll look for the specs used. Including a Windows 10 64 Bit Pro edition could take this build to over $600 though. I use newegg.com for my shopping.
I think you can play using multiple controllers. But it depends on the game and/or the community support for sure. So check first or ask people that know. I don't know much about NBA as I have never played it so I can not help you there specifically.

A PC has mods that rival AAA games (Horizon:Zero Dawn is cute compared to Call of Chernobyl), old games, emulation... it really is not fair. That and cheaper long term price is why us Bulgarians for example are mostly PC Gamers. And we make 400 euro a month, a PS4 is that much lol (before the 16-18% taxes).

As for the Masher... remember that it is using an Nvidia GPU. Those age very badly as Nvidia has inferior support compared to AMD. If he had used a second hand AMD 7950 for example, it would be a slaughter. An absolute slaughter. 65% above a PS4 even in the best optimized PS4 games.
Windows 10 was free for my Windows 7 machine :p
 

geizr

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Oct 9, 2008
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Charcharo said:
Gorfias said:
Charcharo said:
PC Gaming is cheaper. Full stop. Console gaming looks cheaper to the Rich Americans, but they dont do the math long term either :p

Console optimization is overestimated. Remember, PC has low level APIs too. In the Xbox 360 and PS3 era, the console optimization accounted for 25% extra performance. These days? More like 5-10% at the most for a console.

Here is some info:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDmC04GHhRE

And the Potato Masher:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH6FCgqQB_s&index=84&list=PLQbCPWtOQp0FoY_-7GwWSErWP2j7--Hh5

Whoever told you the Scorpios is as powerful as a GTX 1070 lied to you. The Fury X has 8.6 Teraflops. Why does it lose to the 980 Ti and GTX 1070?
*It isnt the VRAM BTW.
I'll have to check your links. Thanks for sharing.

I concede: I am torn. If I have a single Xbox controller receiver on a PC, would I be able to use multiple controllers to play multiplayer games? I have NBA 2016 on PC for instance.

If the Scorpio is over the $500 price point, I really could build something that would instantly have all my GOG, Steam, Origin and Uplay games on it, ready for download. PCs are flexible.

Reviewing.

EDIT: Potato Masher is fun. I'll look for the specs used. Including a Windows 10 64 Bit Pro edition could take this build to over $600 though. I use newegg.com for my shopping.
I think you can play using multiple controllers. But it depends on the game and/or the community support for sure. So check first or ask people that know. I don't know much about NBA as I have never played it so I can not help you there specifically.

A PC has mods that rival AAA games (Horizon:Zero Dawn is cute compared to Call of Chernobyl), old games, emulation... it really is not fair. That and cheaper long term price is why us Bulgarians for example are mostly PC Gamers. And we make 400 euro a month, a PS4 is that much lol (before the 16-18% taxes).

As for the Masher... remember that it is using an Nvidia GPU. Those age very badly as Nvidia has inferior support compared to AMD. If he had used a second hand AMD 7950 for example, it would be a slaughter. An absolute slaughter. 65% above a PS4 even in the best optimized PS4 games.
Windows 10 was free for my Windows 7 machine :p
What IS IT with you PC gamers that every, single, shit-fucking thread about consoles, you guys have to come in and evangelize to everyone about the PC. Look, we can do the math. We already know the merits of the PC, and, yet, we choose to game on a console for reasons outside of basic math/number crunching that we feel are more important for our own preferences and enjoyment. Why can't you guys just never let people play on WHATEVER hardware that they choose to play on without having to hear the whole "Get a PC" rant/mantra? Seriously, I want to know, cause you guys do it in EVERY, SINGLE THREAD on EVERY, SINGLE FORUM on EVERY, SINGLE SITE that brings up consoles.

We get it. You guys love to game on the PC and have a preference for gaming on the PC. Well, some of us love gaming on the console and have a preference for gaming on the console. That is a personal choice that we make. It doesn't have to fit in your calculus; it's a personal choice we make for our own reasons. Hell, a lot of people do both with equal measures of enjoyment (and those are generally the ONLY ones who game on a PC that don't seem to feel this need to shout the "Get a PC" mantra at every opportunity)!

For shits-sake, the whole PC Master race just needs to be launched to a planet where they can just be by themselves and leave the rest of us to just play and enjoy games in peace on whatever hardware we choose. The whole meme has become more than a little annoying because it is used too much as a beat-stick of self-absorbed superiority against anyone not them.
 

ffronw

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Oct 24, 2013
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geizr said:
Charcharo said:
Gorfias said:
Charcharo said:
PC Gaming is cheaper. Full stop. Console gaming looks cheaper to the Rich Americans, but they dont do the math long term either :p

Console optimization is overestimated. Remember, PC has low level APIs too. In the Xbox 360 and PS3 era, the console optimization accounted for 25% extra performance. These days? More like 5-10% at the most for a console.

Here is some info:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EDmC04GHhRE

And the Potato Masher:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DH6FCgqQB_s&index=84&list=PLQbCPWtOQp0FoY_-7GwWSErWP2j7--Hh5

Whoever told you the Scorpios is as powerful as a GTX 1070 lied to you. The Fury X has 8.6 Teraflops. Why does it lose to the 980 Ti and GTX 1070?
*It isnt the VRAM BTW.
I'll have to check your links. Thanks for sharing.

I concede: I am torn. If I have a single Xbox controller receiver on a PC, would I be able to use multiple controllers to play multiplayer games? I have NBA 2016 on PC for instance.

If the Scorpio is over the $500 price point, I really could build something that would instantly have all my GOG, Steam, Origin and Uplay games on it, ready for download. PCs are flexible.

Reviewing.

EDIT: Potato Masher is fun. I'll look for the specs used. Including a Windows 10 64 Bit Pro edition could take this build to over $600 though. I use newegg.com for my shopping.
I think you can play using multiple controllers. But it depends on the game and/or the community support for sure. So check first or ask people that know. I don't know much about NBA as I have never played it so I can not help you there specifically.

A PC has mods that rival AAA games (Horizon:Zero Dawn is cute compared to Call of Chernobyl), old games, emulation... it really is not fair. That and cheaper long term price is why us Bulgarians for example are mostly PC Gamers. And we make 400 euro a month, a PS4 is that much lol (before the 16-18% taxes).

As for the Masher... remember that it is using an Nvidia GPU. Those age very badly as Nvidia has inferior support compared to AMD. If he had used a second hand AMD 7950 for example, it would be a slaughter. An absolute slaughter. 65% above a PS4 even in the best optimized PS4 games.
Windows 10 was free for my Windows 7 machine :p
What IS IT with you PC gamers that every, single, shit-fucking thread about consoles, you guys have to come in and evangelize to everyone about the PC. Look, we can do the math. We already know the merits of the PC, and, yet, we choose to game on a console for reasons outside of basic math/number crunching that we feel are more important for our own preferences and enjoyment. Why can't you guys just never let people play on WHATEVER hardware that they choose to play on without having to hear the whole "Get a PC" rant/mantra? Seriously, I want to know, cause you guys do it in EVERY, SINGLE THREAD on EVERY, SINGLE FORUM on EVERY, SINGLE SITE that brings up consoles.

We get it. You guys love to game on the PC and have a preference for gaming on the PC. Well, some of us love gaming on the console and have a preference for gaming on the console. That is a personal choice that we make. It doesn't have to fit in your calculus; it's a personal choice we make for our own reasons. Hell, a lot of people do both with equal measures of enjoyment (and those are generally the ONLY ones who game on a PC that don't seem to feel this need to shout the "Get a PC" mantra at every opportunity)!

For shits-sake, the whole PC Master race just needs to be launched to a planet where they can just be by themselves and leave the rest of us to just play and enjoy games in peace on whatever hardware we choose. The whole meme has become more than a little annoying because it is used too much as a beat-stick of self-absorbed superiority against anyone not them.
You can take it as either me defending engineering and science (I am studying Industrial Engineering and want to work on chip design and manufacturing) in simple terms for the masses.

Or you can take it as me countering stinking rich American Console imperialism. Take your pick really :p

*Also technically, most console gamers and Americans in general do not know about PC's strengths in cheapness and Emulation/Modding/Backwards compatibility. All they know is power, which is almost completely irrelevant. Even if a console was more powerful than the best PC it would still lose those, much more important points.