Hindus Upset Over Asura's Wrath

direkiller

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TBH i don't see how its any diffident then if a cristan got upset over assassins creed. It takes elements from your region it is not putting your religion in a bad light or trivialization it in any way shape or form.
If anything like Sephiroth did it will simply get a few people to educate themselves.
 

Swifteye

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Did people read the article? The guy was only mildly complaining. It's no better than the griping the people in this very website do.
 
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Does their faith deserve respect? Hell no.

Do they deserve being represented as they are rather than a vague collection of bullshit? Hell yes.

Should they care? Hell no.

Does it matter? Hell no.
 

Joel Bridge

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Use_Imagination_here said:
Does their faith deserve respect? Hell no.

Do they deserve being represented as they are rather than a vague collection of bullshit? Hell yes.

Should they care? Hell no.

Does it matter? Hell no.
That such Ignorant answer I need to cry.
 

CapitalistPig

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I say to you good sir Zed. You should be commended for your ability to not comdemn the masses as damned because you are offended. However, popular culture all over the world punishes those who restrict. All that is sacred to anyone is trampled on for the sake of art, with both positive and negative results. Look at any anime, any hollywood movie, every single game ever made about the middle ages, its all interpretations of different viewpoints influenced by creativity and fueled by the desire to create uniqueness. At the same time, no one involved is claiming any kind of direct interpretations. I think this is a non-issue. As a troll would say, "go QQ some more, ya noob."
 

CapitalistPig

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Eric the Orange said:
Azuaron said:
Eric the Orange said:
I'm not particularly religious, so I always find it odd that some people who are get so easily offended about it. By this I mean that there are things that I hold in high regard but I don't really care if other people dislike them or disrespect them. But it seems that people are especially touchy when it come to matters of belief.
So you don't care if, for instance, people disbelieve evolution and use public funds to open young Earth creationist museums?
Yeah I would dislike that but for a very specific reason. You said public funds, meaning that it's being paid for by tax dollars. And I'm against pretty much anything that's not related to the direct running of the government being paid for by tax dollars, no matter what it is. My take is that if you want to get your research, art exhibit, ect. funded you look some where else. It doesn't matter if I agree with it or not. But that's getting off on a tangent.

In this case someone made a game that was funded by a corporation. So say if this game was about the "young Earth creationist" stuff, no it would not bother me. Or if someone made that museum with donations or investors would not bug me either.
100% on point. You vs. world: 1/0
 

Jabberwock xeno

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oldtaku said:
'the game trivializes the symbols and concepts of the Hindu religion.'

The game takes the symbols and concepts of the Hindu religion and makes them awesome.
While I think they, like all mythology, were already awesome, I have to agree with this.

The fact that the game has been described as "Dragon Ball Z X God of War" can't do anything BUT make anything the game is vaguely related to more awesome.
 

Thespian

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Yeesh, whatever. They say you can't mishandle any faith no matter how big or how small. Well no one really complains about Norse Mythology being handled inaccurately in, say, the Marvel Comics Universe, and if you think that a Religion is any more significant or deserving of respect than a mythology, then you've gone wrong somewhere.

Does no one else find this hilarious? "They aren't taking our multiple invisible omnipresent all powerful magical deities SERIOUSLY ENOUGH!"

Religion is one of those things that is really funny to look at when you take a step back for a second.
 

Scow2

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8-Bit_Jack said:
man's a idiot.
He's getting bent out of shape because his religion isn't being played out word for word in the game? how ridiculous can you be?
No, he's not. That's stupid hyperbole caused by a lack of journalistic integrity and a stupid author who put hype and shock value over the truth.

The issue here is that he's simply requesting that game developers put thought into the Hindu imagery and mythology they use, instead of using Faux Symbolism.

Imagine a game based with Jewish Imagery, where the Prophet Moses must lead the rebellion of Flaming Chariot-of-iron riding jews against the Pharaoh Elijiah's Golem Army, where he rules from atop the Tower of Babel - Furthermore, they enjoy eating pork, but can't eat beef.

Bad game and story? Maybe, maybe not. But it certainly screws up the source material enough to make anyone who knows about the religion ask the developer what the hell they're doing.
 

Elyxard

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At least the guy was polite and even offered assistance to developers in order to "get it right"; a bit more sensible than a lot of the other high level religious figures.

But it is an annoying thing that just because something is a deity it suddenly becomes "untouchable" by the general public. It's a dangerous road to travel to go that far to protect the very image of what you worship. It becomes more about the deity than it does the actual teachings and way of life, which are the only part that should really matter in a religion.

If this game were deliberatly trying to teach a false form of Hinduism, then that'd be understandable. But from what I already know about the game, it's clearly not something to be taken seriously. I very much doubt the creators had any sort of malice intended with their depiction.
 

Evil Teddie

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RaikuFA said:
So they're not upset that the game was bad?

Either way, don't tell them about Digital Devil Saga, they'll have a breakdown.
Funnily enough, Digital Devil Saga actually protrays the deites very accurately and yes, there is a hermaphrodite god (called Ardhanarishvara.) which is where Jenna Angel comes from. I've always admired the Shin Megami Tensei series for its accuracy with mythology.

This is just a guy ticked off by the fact that the creators Did Not Do the Research and uses Faux Symbolism. Sort of like the Nazis stealing the Swastika and flipping it but less so.
 

Joel Bridge

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Ardhanarishvara is other form of Shiva. DDS did better job them most but they still butcher it. In Hinduism Brahman is everthing you can defeat or destory infinite, hell goal in hinduism is to no longer have atman to you can become with the Brahman.
 

Scow2

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Draxyle said:
At least the guy was polite and even offered assistance to developers in order to "get it right"; a bit more sensible than a lot of the other high level religious figures.

But it is an annoying thing that just because something is a deity it suddenly becomes "untouchable" by the general public. It's a dangerous road to travel to go that far to protect the very image of what you worship. It becomes more about the deity than it does the actual teachings and way of life, which are the only part that should really matter in a religion.

If this game were deliberatly trying to teach a false form of Hinduism, then that'd be understandable. But from what I already know about the game, it's clearly not something to be taken seriously. I very much doubt the creators had any sort of malice intended with their depiction.
They're not saying that it's "Untouchable" by the general public - they're annoyed that the game merely name-drops Hindu names and concepts without any regard for their context.

And as the guy above me notes - They wouldn't have a problem with Digital Devil Saga because it's not ignorant with its implementation of Hindu symbolism and mythology
 

Oroboros

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Hinduism seems to have the distinction of being one of the msot widely worshipped religions on the planet, yet is consistently represented in media (particulalry in the fantasy/science fiction/supernatural genres) in a manner that is insensitive at the least. Off the top of my head, there is Indiana Jones which shows Hindus practicing human sacrifice among other things, ther is the tv show 'Supernatural' which has an episode where assorted ancient gods along with hindu gods are shown to be cannibalistic spirits, then are later killed easily by an abrahamic angel. The show Show 'Sanctuary' had Kali as a giant psychic crab, and Stargate had hindu gods and godesses as parasitic evil megalomaniac worms. A lot of modern media tends to represent Hinduism as if there aren't Hindus around to get upset by this sort of thing. Yes, Christianity is sometimes targetted, but rarely to the same degree as ancient religions or non-abrahamic religions.

Honestly, the msot suprising thing about this situation is that people are suprised that some Hindus might be upset about their religion being misrepresented (again).


Use_Imagination_here said:
Does their faith deserve respect? Hell no.

Do they deserve being represented as they are rather than a vague collection of bullshit? Hell yes.

Should they care? Hell no.

Does it matter? Hell no.
Oh. Wow.
 

SouthpawFencer

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I've actually given Zed's request and statement more thought, and I'm finding myself disagreeing with it less and less (behold, the power of making your complaint in a reasonable and polite manner)...

Did Asura's Wrath REALLY need to use names from Hindu Mythology, or ANY mythology, especially one that still has active followers? Would the gaming experience have suffered AT ALL if they'd given the characters in the game unique names, rather than the names of Hindu deities? It really seems to me like the designers of this game butchered a religion for no particularly good reason, and could have produced the same quality of game without having done so.

Heck, I think Randy Milholland treated Hinduism with more respect! ( http://somethingpositive.net/sp05052002.shtml ).

By contrast, while the God of War series took severe liberties with the Greek Pantheon, and the surrounding mythology, I think that doing so WAS necessary for that game to be tell its story effectively. Plus, the Greek Pantheon is part of a religion that is effectively, if not totally, defunct at this point. I feel that Too Human also had a better story for reinventing Norse Gods as cybernetic warriors. It didn't help the gameplay at all, unfortunately... And Norse Mythology is a largely defunct religion as well.

So the request of "If you're not even going to TRY to be accurate, can you PLEASE not drag religious icons into your game" seems increasingly reasonable to me. Of course, game companies have every RIGHT to do it if they want to. Nobody's freedom of expression should be legally restricted in order to spare somebody's feelings. But this guy has every right to point out that maybe those game designers are being unnecessarily insensitive for doing so.
 

CapitalistPig

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Oroboros said:
Hinduism seems to have the distinction of being one of the msot widely worshipped religions on the planet, yet is consistently represented in media (particulalry in the fantasy/science fiction/supernatural genres) in a manner that is insensitive at the least. Off the top of my head, there is Indiana Jones which shows Hindus practicing human sacrifice among other things, ther is the tv show 'Supernatural' which has an episode where assorted ancient gods along with hindu gods are shown to be cannibalistic spirits, then are later killed easily by an abrahamic angel. The show Show 'Sanctuary' had Kali as a giant psychic crab, and Stargate had hindu gods and godesses as parasitic evil megalomaniac worms. A lot of modern media tends to represent Hinduism as if there aren't Hindus around to get upset by this sort of thing. Yes, Christianity is sometimes targetted, but rarely to the same degree as ancient religions or non-abrahamic religions.

Honestly, the msot suprising thing about this situation is that people are suprised that some Hindus might be upset about their religion being misrepresented (again).
Stargate used ALL forms of gods. Including but not limited to. Celtic, Egyptian, greek, Sumarian, babylonian, Irish (different then celtic), African, Slavic, Mayan, and of course chinese. Needless to say they covered their bases. Kinda makes it justified if they get everyone lol. But we didn't exactly see a big cry of outrage against them did we? they did 218 episodes and how many spin offs? and of course the first movie was a great sci fi/fantasy original.

EDIT
Also in stargate all original myths were left as being considered factual in the show. The story begins after all other historical event had factually occurred. Therefore, its kinda like fan fiction or a phyical continuation of what and where the gods all ended up. So, I don't know, its just creativity taken places. Its hard to take it serious.
 

Oroboros

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CapitalistPig said:
Oroboros said:
Hinduism seems to have the distinction of being one of the msot widely worshipped religions on the planet, yet is consistently represented in media (particulalry in the fantasy/science fiction/supernatural genres) in a manner that is insensitive at the least. Off the top of my head, there is Indiana Jones which shows Hindus practicing human sacrifice among other things, ther is the tv show 'Supernatural' which has an episode where assorted ancient gods along with hindu gods are shown to be cannibalistic spirits, then are later killed easily by an abrahamic angel. The show Show 'Sanctuary' had Kali as a giant psychic crab, and Stargate had hindu gods and godesses as parasitic evil megalomaniac worms. A lot of modern media tends to represent Hinduism as if there aren't Hindus around to get upset by this sort of thing. Yes, Christianity is sometimes targetted, but rarely to the same degree as ancient religions or non-abrahamic religions.

Honestly, the msot suprising thing about this situation is that people are suprised that some Hindus might be upset about their religion being misrepresented (again).
Stargate used ALL forms of gods. Including but not limited to. Celtic, Egyptian, greek, Sumarian, babylonian, Irish (different then celtic), African, Slavic, Mayan, and of course chinese. Needless to say they covered their bases. Kinda makes it justified if they get everyone lol. But we didn't exactly see a big cry of outrage against them did we? they did 218 episodes and how many spin offs? and of course the first movie was a great sci fi/fantasy original.

EDIT
Also in stargate all original myths were left as being considered factual in the show. The story begins after all other historical event had factually occurred. Therefore, its kinda like fan fiction or a phyical continuation of what and where the gods all ended up. So, I don't know, its just creativity taken places. Its hard to take it serious.
Note however that there was only one abrahamic 'god' on the show, who doesn't even go by that name for most of his appearence, using the egyptian name of 'Sokar' instead of 'Satan'. They were very diplomatic with their handling of him, saying he was 'impersonating' Satan instead of being the source of the myths, note the difference. In the entire series, I can only remember one time where the implications of living in a galaxy full of god-impersonators for the abrahamic religions is questioned-at which point it is essentially dismissed with 'that's different' and never mentioned again. There aren't Free Jaffa trying to get members of the stargate program to 'renounce their false gods', wheras pagan gods are routinely questioned. While the Ori seem to fill the abrahamic gap thematically in many ways with their religion, they are never stated or implied that they are christians or that the Ori founded christianity. Even so, their hilarious technology of the obviously christian-inspired gods over the disorganised, impotent technological magpie pagan gods could be interpreted as beign some sort of symbolic victory of christiantiy over the old religions.

Basically, the legitimacy of the Abrahamic faiths is never seriously questioned, despite being exactly the sort of settign where one would expect it to be, whereas every pagan god bar the Asgard and lord Yu is debased and evil by assumption, including ones that are currently widely worshipped, the implication being that it's OK to portray Hindu gods in a bad light, but questioning the legitimacy of the Abrahamic religions is a no-go.
 

CapitalistPig

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Oroboros said:
CapitalistPig said:
Oroboros said:
Hinduism seems to have the distinction of being one of the msot widely worshipped religions on the planet, yet is consistently represented in media (particulalry in the fantasy/science fiction/supernatural genres) in a manner that is insensitive at the least. Off the top of my head, there is Indiana Jones which shows Hindus practicing human sacrifice among other things, ther is the tv show 'Supernatural' which has an episode where assorted ancient gods along with hindu gods are shown to be cannibalistic spirits, then are later killed easily by an abrahamic angel. The show Show 'Sanctuary' had Kali as a giant psychic crab, and Stargate had hindu gods and godesses as parasitic evil megalomaniac worms. A lot of modern media tends to represent Hinduism as if there aren't Hindus around to get upset by this sort of thing. Yes, Christianity is sometimes targetted, but rarely to the same degree as ancient religions or non-abrahamic religions.

Honestly, the msot suprising thing about this situation is that people are suprised that some Hindus might be upset about their religion being misrepresented (again).
Stargate used ALL forms of gods. Including but not limited to. Celtic, Egyptian, greek, Sumarian, babylonian, Irish (different then celtic), African, Slavic, Mayan, and of course chinese. Needless to say they covered their bases. Kinda makes it justified if they get everyone lol. But we didn't exactly see a big cry of outrage against them did we? they did 218 episodes and how many spin offs? and of course the first movie was a great sci fi/fantasy original.

EDIT
Also in stargate all original myths were left as being considered factual in the show. The story begins after all other historical event had factually occurred. Therefore, its kinda like fan fiction or a phyical continuation of what and where the gods all ended up. So, I don't know, its just creativity taken places. Its hard to take it serious.
Note however that there was only one abrahamic 'god' on the show, who doesn't even go by that name for most of his appearence, using the egyptian name of 'Sokar' instead of 'Satan'. They were very diplomatic with their handling of him, saying he was 'impersonating' Satan instead of being the source of the myths, note the difference. In the entire series, I can only remember one time where the implications of living in a galaxy full of god-impersonators for the abrahamic religions is questioned-at which point it is essentially dismissed with 'that's different' and never mentioned again. There aren't Free Jaffa trying to get members of the stargate program to 'renounce their false gods', wheras pagan gods are routinely questioned. While the Ori seem to fill the abrahamic gap thematically in many ways with their religion, they are never stated or implied that they are christians or that the Ori founded christianity. Even so, their hilarious technology of the obviously christian-inspired gods over the disorganised, impotent technological magpie pagan gods could be interpreted as beign some sort of symbolic victory of christiantiy over the old religions.

Basically, the legitimacy of the Abrahamic faiths is never seriously questioned, despite being exactly the sort of settign where one would expect it to be, whereas every pagan god bar the Asgard and lord Yu is debased and evil by assumption, including ones that are currently widely worshipped, the implication being that it's OK to portray Hindu gods in a bad light, but questioning the legitimacy of the Abrahamic religions is a no-go.
Very accurately put, but (other then my joke that its okay if you cover all your bases) I still stand by that its simply creativity put forward. There are plenty of instances where other religions are inaccurately assaulted. Your own point is that stargate had only a few instances where they went against the original lore. Since they are the stardard with which we are discussing many other medias actually fall far far short of this mark. If you think about it, there's about 16 books of the bible, of which only several are integral to the over all conception of the religion. Proving that tangential work has been arbitrated since the beginning of writing. All of which are positive and negative in nature. Its conjecture to assume since one instance is sited that a group is being targeted. nor multiple uses either since our world has grown small and originality in short supply.
 

infohippie

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...but added that faith is sacred, and game developers should be more sensitive when dealing with such matters. If developers cannot "accurately and authentically deliver religious imagery and symbolism," he said, then they should not "unnecessarily poke into religion."
No. Bullshit. Nothing should be so sacred that it cannot be made into a game, a joke, a story, anything. If you don't like it, don't watch/read/play/listen to it. Nobody has a right to not be offended.