Hong Kong Security Law

[Dirty Hipsters]

Kind of surprised that no one's brought this up yet, but it's really getting overshadowed by COVID-19.

Hong Kong national security law: What is it and is it worrying?

A simple guide to the national security law China has passed in Hong Kong and why it matters.

www.bbc.com

China is imposing a national security law on Hong Kong. Basically this will allow China to create its own national security, law enforcement and policing agencies in Hong Kong.

The law hasn't been drafted yet, but people in Hong Kong are extremely afraid that they're going to be losing their free speech rights, right to protest and other civil liberties, just like citizens of mainland China.

Those who have the means to are already starting to flee Hong Kong and relocate to more democratically inclined countries, and some countries including the UK may be willing to give refugee status to those leaving Hong Kong.

Britain ready to welcome Hong Kong refugees

BORIS JOHNSON has a secret plan to allow hundreds of thousands of Hong Kong citizens to come to Britain if China clamps down further on the former British colony.

www.express.co.uk

There are currently protests in Hong Kong and people are gathering in massive groups despite the COVID-19 pandemic, which China is using as an excuse to try and violently shut down the protests.

Hong Kong Police Fire Tear Gas as Protesters Resist China’s Grip (Published 2020)

Marchers defied social distancing rules and a water cannon to demonstrate against Beijing’s plan for new security legislation in the territory.

www.nytimes.com

 

[Chimpzy]

Oh, so I guess I guess the annexation of Hong Kong has begun or whatever the right word for it is. Was bound to happen eventually, but kind of surprised it didn't start sooner.

 

[The Rogue Wolf]

Oh, so I guess I guess the annexation of Hong Kong has begun or whatever the right word for it is. Was bound to happen eventually, but kind of surprised it didn't start sooner.

China put out a feeler with that extradition law, and got it singed by the massive sustained protests. Now COVID-19 is giving them a chance to shut it all down and push through their domination efforts.

 

[MrCalavera]

Was bound to happen eventually, pandemic might've only accelerated it.

 

[CM156]

I think that any time, from now on, when somebody comes out in favor of a "One-County, Two-Systems" agreement for Taiwan, this should serve as a precedent as to why the PRC is not to be trusted.

 

[Trunkage]

I think that any time, from now on, when somebody comes out in favor of a "One-County, Two-Systems" agreement for Taiwan, this should serve as a precedent as to why the PRC is not to be trusted.

Wanna take bets on how long before Taiwan is absorbed? I say 20 years because it’s a round number

But, honest question, which is better: Invading countries you don’t like and putting in puppets like the US or the gradual belts and roads, paying for infrastructure and trying to subsume countries legalistically with a healthy dose of troops at the border of China?

 

[Hawki]

Oh, so I guess I guess the annexation of Hong Kong has begun or whatever the right word for it is. Was bound to happen eventually, but kind of surprised it didn't start sooner.

Well, it was meant to happen 2047. A question that's never been answered for me is if China backed out of Hong Kong, what's the protesters' long game?

I know that the handover was made in the assumption that China would adopt liberal democracy, but that isn't going to happen, so again, the long game.

Wanna take bets on how long before Taiwan is absorbed? I say 20 years because it’s a round number

I dunno. The situations aren't the same. Taiwan has an ally in the US, as well as its own military, plus sea separating it from China. I mean, if China really wanted to, it could launch an invasion of Taiwan today and take the island, but if the US got involved, then, well...

But, honest question, which is better: Invading countries you don’t like and putting in puppets like the US or the gradual belts and roads, paying for infrastructure and trying to subsume countries legalistically with a healthy dose of troops at the border of China?

I'd say the former is worse.

That said, there's a different dichotomy I'd use. The United States has proven its willingness to act horribly to various countries across the world, but is willing to treat its own citizens reasonably well - I'm sure that assessment will vary depending on your racial and financial standing in the US, but it isn't a dictatorship. On the other hand, China has never invaded another country under the premise of "spreading democracy," but is far harsher to its own citizens, such as the Ughyrs, the social credit system, a one party state, the One China Policy, and Tibet.

So, on one hand, I'd prefer living in the US than China if I had a choice, but if I was living in a place like Iran or Cuba, then I might see China as the lesser evil.

 

[CM156]

But, honest question, which is better: Invading countries you don’t like and putting in puppets like the US or the gradual belts and roads, paying for infrastructure and trying to subsume countries legalistically with a healthy dose of troops at the border of China?

That should be for the people of Taiwan to decide. Sadly, I don't know if we'll be able to protect them.

 

[Worgen]

I dunno. The situations aren't the same. Taiwan has an ally in the US, as well as its own military, plus sea separating it from China. I mean, if China really wanted to, it could launch an invasion of Taiwan today and take the island, but if the US got involved, then, well...

I don't know how much I would count on the US. While trump seems to have no love for china, he has pretty much used up a lot of our soft power options with his stupid trade war. So unless he is ready for a real war, which I have a feeling even he would prefer to avoid, he would probably back down. I mean I suppose he could actually offer to lift the tariffs and give other concessions for a more free Taiwan, but that would require a temperament that I don't think trump has.

 

[TheMysteriousGX]

I mean, we did and are doing fuck all when Russia moved in and occupied 7% of Ukraine.

Why would anybody expect us to do jack all if China moved on Taiwan? We can't even sanction China without crippling large portions of our own economy.

 

[Agema]

China is imposing a national security law on Hong Kong. Basically this will allow China to create its own national security, law enforcement and policing agencies in Hong Kong.

China was always going to force Hong Kong firmly into line eventually. It had to give Hong Kong leeway after re-unification beause HK was about 15-20% of its economy. It's now well under 5%, and can therefore more safely be squashed.

I think that any time, from now on, when somebody comes out in favor of a "One-County, Two-Systems" agreement for Taiwan, this should serve as a precedent as to why the PRC is not to be trusted.

Yep. China's not going to accept anything but total control from Beijing.

This might alarm Taiwan into more active movement towards full and formal independence. I think, honestly, if the world decided to support Taiwan, China would just be forced to back down and seethe furiously. It's not ready to try military solutions yet, and it doesn't have the ability to start a trade war with, well, everyone. However even if in the short term is defeated over Taiwan, it's not going to surrender its claim and in the long term will jump as soon as it thinks it can win.

Sadly, I don't know if we'll be able to protect them

I think the US can, quite comfortably. China needs to win a sea/air battle. It's fleet is modest, and as far as I'm aware its air force is surprisingly small and a little bit "quaint", with plenty of old tech aircraft. On the other hand, even without the US, a more general Pacific defence agreement including places like Japan should be sufficient to stay China's hand - again, at least in the short-medium term. If China decides on a full-blown military expansion at some point, that's a whole different ball game. However, in the future, I suspect China's also going to run into opposition from India, even if the USA recedes.

 

[Secondhand Revenant]

That should be for the people of Taiwan to decide. Sadly, I don't know if we'll be able to protect them.

Kind of missing the point to say that when no one else got to decide in the other situations either I feel