Hotline Miami 2 Dev to Australians: "Just Pirate The Game"

Steven Bogos

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Hotline Miami 2 Dev to Australians: "Just Pirate The Game"


Lead Hotline Miami 2 developer Jonatan Söderström says he is OK with Aussies pirating the game if it gets banned in the country.

Well here's a new one for you: a developer actually encouraging his fans to pirate his game. As you may have heard, Hotline Miami 2 [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/139478-Hotline-Miami-2-Banned-in-Australia] has been refused classification in Australia, effectively banning it from sale in the region. Normally, developers can edit the game and re-submit a censored version in hopes that it will be approved, but as Devolver Digital has released a statement stating that it will not be appealing the decision, the odds of Aussies being able to buy Hotline Miami 2 are quite low. So, what should Australian fans do? Go ahead and pirate it, according to its lead developer.

A post popped up on the Australia subreddit [https://www.reddit.com/r/australia/comments/2si3d1/dev_of_hotline_miami_has_said_to_pirate_the_game/], where a fan reportedly asked Lead Hotline Miami 2 developer Jonatan Söderström if there would be any way for him to get his hands on the game. Söderström appeared to give his blessing to simply pirate the game, and when we reached out to Söderström ourselves for clarification, he told us, "If there will be no way other way of acquiring the game in Australia, of course I won't mind if people pirate it," adding that "Money has never been my main objective when creating games."

This wouldn't be the first time the Hotline Miami team has embraced piracy. Back in the days of the original release, Söderström went to torrent websites and actively tried to help out pirates [http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/120362-Hotline-Miami-Developer-Embraces-Pirates] who were having trouble with the game, encouraging seeders to please update their torrents to the latest version.

So there you have it, Söderström himself has given Aussies the go ahead to just pirate the game if the refused classification decision sticks.

As a small legal note: while games that are refused classification are illegal to sell in Australia, they are not actually illegal to own if you manage to get your hands on them some way. However, we at The Escapist do not approve of software piracy in any shape or form, as it is still an illegal act.

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RicoADF

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Thank you for putting in the extra note informing people that it's legal to buy and own it :)
For fellow Aussies who want the game may I recommend you go to GoG.com, Ozgameshop, Green Man Gaming etc and just buy it from one of them. A dev that says something like this deserves the little bit of extra effort it takes to pay them for the game they've made.
 

CrystalShadow

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See, I completely understand these devs, because if I made games I'd be largely the same.

Money is important, because we live in a society where you need it to do just about anything (or even just survive)
But that doesn't necessarily mean getting money is the primary reason why people create stuff.

If I create things, at the end of the day I WANT people to enjoy them.

It annoys me how so many things can just get lost in the mists of time because as soon as they are no longer profitable they get abandoned somewhere in a way that makes doing illegal things the only really viable way of keeping them alive.

Still, as much as I believe all that, piracy is highly questionable, and I don't understand people that feel entitled to pirate anything and everything. Not for any real reason, just because they feel like it.

I don't mind turning a blind eye to piracy in 'grey areas' (old games that are hard to find, obscure software, etc. - Anything that is really hard to get hold of in any legal manner), but to advocate doing it just because you can is so, so wrong.

Anyway, good for you, Jonatan.

I, ironically am in Australia, but... I don't feel particularly inclined to go with this idea. I'm sure there's still ways to get it considering Australia's stance on imports...
(and the whole world-wide digital distribution thing. Though admittedly steam makes its content regional...)
 

Thaluikhain

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Does the developer own the IP? If so, it's not piracy, if not, their opinion isn't that relevant.
 

small

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thaluikhain said:
Does the developer own the IP? If so, it's not piracy, if not, their opinion isn't that relevant.
im wondering that myself, is it illegal if the developer themselves gives people the go ahead to pirate the game.. that said the announcement has probably pissed off the censorship board and there might be fall out from that for them.

I am curious to see what happen from hear even though i have no interest in the game itself, i found the first one needed reflexes of a redbull addicted 12yo on crack.

*edit* its not the first time its happened though phantasmagoria was banned here for an implied sexual violence scene as well
 

mjharper

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Am I right in thinking that being gifted the game on Steam from someone outside of Australia would legally circumvent the 'ban'? I'm in Germany, and I did that with the original Borderlands. So maybe there could be a support thread for Australians to get in touch with people abroad who were willing to gift them the game in return for a small donation to their paypal accounts?
 

42

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mjharper said:
Am I right in thinking that being gifted the game on Steam from someone outside of Australia would legally circumvent the 'ban'? I'm in Germany, and I did that with the original Borderlands. So maybe there could be a support thread for Australians to get in touch with people abroad who were willing to gift them the game in return for a small donation to their paypal accounts?
I am willing to do that to get the game Senpai. i don't want to miss out on the uncensored versions of any games anymore.
 

omega 616

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I seriously don't understand that ... The devs say "asses feel free to pirate" but you guys say piracy is illegal? To me this like a girl saying "yes" to sex but you guys still saying it's rape.

If the people who made the game say go ahead, why are you cock blocking? This only applies to Aussies, so anybody else, I agree that they should buy.
 

Thaluikhain

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small said:
im wondering that myself, is it illegal if the developer themselves gives people the go ahead to pirate the game..
omega 616 said:
If the people who made the game say go ahead
One of them, who might not be the owner, or sole owner of the IP. Maybe they work with, or for, other people. Or sold the rights to someone else.
 

CpT_x_Killsteal

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Good on 'em. Good to see them using a bit of common sense on the matter. If it's completely legally impossible for them to purchase it, what does it matter if it's pirated?

Also, who wants to play "how many winks were in that last paragraph" with me? I'm going with 4.
 

Teoes

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Jun 1, 2010
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Well I was going to buy this anyway, but I'm.. going to buy it harder..(?) now.

I appreciate the thought of "does this come from this one guy and therefore does it count?" so I wonder if there's going to be some official stance of "knock yourselves out and pirate our game" from them just to clear things up.

I too would love to see clarification on the matter of whether it'd still be illegal to pirate if it comes with the creators' blessing. Although surely at that point it can't be classified as piracy and instead just becomes free copying and digital distribution..?
 

Grumman

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I'm just going to remind everyone that if you live in Western Australia, it is illegal to possess this game even with the consent of the creators. Hell, until recently it was a crime to own Left 4 Dead 2.
 

Steven Bogos

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I was not really interested in the game.

However...
Now I am. Seems like they gained a sale here :p
 

Kahani

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thaluikhain said:
small said:
im wondering that myself, is it illegal if the developer themselves gives people the go ahead to pirate the game..
omega 616 said:
If the people who made the game say go ahead
One of them, who might not be the owner, or sole owner of the IP. Maybe they work with, or for, other people. Or sold the rights to someone else.
Jonatan Söderström is the co-founder and lead developer of Dennaton Games, the developer of Hotline Miami. Devolver Digital is the publisher who will actually distribute the game. While obviously I don't have a copy of their contract, it's incredibly unlikely that Söderström has any authority or right to allow people to pirate the game. I certainly sympathise with his sentiment, but anyone who actually pirates the game will not be doing so legally.
 

Metalrocks

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wow. thats something you dont hear every day from a developer. even when i still dont care for the game, they sure got my respect for this.
 

Rozalia1

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So instead of telling people to just find some work arounds... tell them to pirate it... whatever the guy has form in this stuff so oh well. I was going to get it but now I'll just wait for it be given out on +, got other stuff I'll be paying for to play anyway.

I'd like to see what The Escapist approves and doesn't approve going by that last line as I've never gotten a response on that, and likely never will as the nature of such things is nebulous on purpose.
I mean the escapist were running an article on that "illegal" or "disallowed" (likely better word for people not to misunderstand) emulator on iPhones telling us to "enjoy it while you can" so I'm sorry if I don't have the biggest faith on where they stand... but tiny minority and all that so who cares really.
 

crotchdot

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RicoADF said:
Thank you for putting in the extra note informing people that it's legal to buy and own it :)
For fellow Aussies who want the game may I recommend you go to GoG.com, Ozgameshop, Green Man Gaming etc and just buy it from one of them.
Just to clarify, while I don't know of anyone personally who has had an RC game seized on import, it can happen, and you can be fined for it. I have had legal games opened and inspected (customs put a sticker on it telling you they've done so), but I've been lucky when it comes to RC games I've imported.

From the Classification Board website:

"Can I import something that is banned in Australia?

In short, no. If a film, computer game or publication has been classified RC (Refused Classification), or would be classified RC, it can be seized by Customs on the basis that it is a prohibited import. You should check the National Classification Database (NCD) to see if the product you plan on importing has been classified RC."

Just for the record, that has never stopped me.
 

CaitSeith

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Banned Game? Just pirate it and show to the government you don't care! - Hotline Miami 2 Developer
 

deth2munkies

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Actually, the only reason software piracy is illegal is because it's reproduction of a copyrighted work without the copyright holder's consent.

The copyright holder just gave his consent, therefore "piracy" by Aussies isn't piracy at all. That means the disclaimer isn't really necessary because no one here is advocating an illegal act.
 

Rozalia1

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deth2munkies said:
Actually, the only reason software piracy is illegal is because it's reproduction of a copyrighted work without the copyright holder's consent.

The copyright holder just gave his consent, therefore "piracy" by Aussies isn't piracy at all. That means the disclaimer isn't really necessary because no one here is advocating an illegal act.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hotline_Miami_2:_Wrong_Number

They have a publisher you know. A more "sympathetic" than the norm no doubt... but I doubt they've given this "go ahead".
 

Spushkin

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I don't think there's a "go ahead" that can be discussed here. I can literally see the guy shrugging and saying "well, there's nothing else for you to do, Australian gamers who want this, get it on torrents".

It's not "giving green light" or whatever, there's no legal discussion here. It's just a matter of fact statement.
 

RaikuFA

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If you're that upset about piracy, you can donate the cost of the game to the devs. There, guilty conscience averted.
 

Arcane Azmadi

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I dunno man, I dunno... I was initially outraged when I heard that the game had been Refused Classification in Australia -why would they give us an R-rating if they're then not going to use it?- until I heard the reason it was RC: a scene where your playable character smashes into a room, viciously murders a bunch of guys, then knocks down and brutally and graphically rapes a woman in the middle of the screen. What the fuck, man? I'm not surprised it was RC and I'm not terribly sympathetic to the developers if they're going to refuse to edit the game and resubmit it for reclassification. There are lines you shouldn't cross. This isn't "artistic integrity", this is childishness. While I'm normally in favour of pirating games you have no legal access to, I feel this guy is just trying to flip off the Australian ratings board. "Oh, you don't like brutal rape scenes? Well fuck you Big Brother, you can't stop your people from brutally raping women if they want to! Censorship! Censorship!"

EDIT: OK, I checked out the updated news article and found out that in context your character is acting in a movie and the director calls 'cut' right after the rape starts. Still strikes me as incredibly, dangerously tasteless.
 

Steven Bogos

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Rozalia1 said:
So instead of telling people to just find some work arounds... tell them to pirate it... whatever the guy has form in this stuff so oh well. I was going to get it but now I'll just wait for it be given out on +, got other stuff I'll be paying for to play anyway.

I'd like to see what The Escapist approves and doesn't approve going by that last line as I've never gotten a response on that, and likely never will as the nature of such things is nebulous on purpose.
I mean the escapist were running an article on that "illegal" or "disallowed" (likely better word for people not to misunderstand) emulator on iPhones telling us to "enjoy it while you can" so I'm sorry if I don't have the biggest faith on where they stand... but tiny minority and all that so who cares really.
I know you see the world in black and white (which is IMHO a VERY dangerous way of thinking), but why does this rustle your jimmies so much :( ??

You see, what they did here had the opposite effect with me. I was no interested in the game, but now I am. They probably got a sale now. And dare I say, they probably lost very few sales and gained more with this move.

The publisher was the same for Hotline Miami too. So I guess Devolver is with the developers on this one.
Also, what alternative way do you recommend for Australians? I honestly dont know, we dont have anything resembling censorship on games here.
 

direkiller

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thaluikhain said:
small said:
im wondering that myself, is it illegal if the developer themselves gives people the go ahead to pirate the game..
omega 616 said:
If the people who made the game say go ahead
One of them, who might not be the owner, or sole owner of the IP. Maybe they work with, or for, other people. Or sold the rights to someone else.
It's published by Devolver Digitial. So the same people who publish Serious Sam ironically
.
I guess the publisher is very hands off when it comes to devs views and handles on piracy. As someone probably would have got told to stop it at some point.
 

DEAD34345

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thaluikhain said:
Does the developer own the IP? If so, it's not piracy, if not, their opinion isn't that relevant.
Just out of curiosity, do you really consider that important? Not in terms of legality I mean, he probably isn't "sole owner of the IP" and pirating it probably would be technically illegal, but in terms of the morality of it?
 

zelda2fanboy

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If it were America, the government would go out of its way to track illegal seeding of the game to prosecute people for pirating it. You know, just to prove a point that they can't be defied or some nonsense. Hopefully, the Australian government is backwards enough to not track that, or just doesn't care in this instance. I just hope the ESRB doesn't rate the game AO. Then we're probably getting hit with a delay / publisher censored content.
 

Lil_Rimmy

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Arcane Azmadi said:
I dunno man, I dunno... I was initially outraged when I heard that the game had been Refused Classification in Australia -why would they give us an R-rating if they're then not going to use it?- until I heard the reason it was RC: a scene where your playable character smashes into a room, viciously murders a bunch of guys, then knocks down and brutally and graphically rapes a woman in the middle of the screen. What the fuck, man? I'm not surprised it was RC and I'm not terribly sympathetic to the developers if they're going to refuse to edit the game and resubmit it for reclassification. There are lines you shouldn't cross. This isn't "artistic integrity", this is childishness. While I'm normally in favour of pirating games you have no legal access to, I feel this guy is just trying to flip off the Australian ratings board. "Oh, you don't like brutal rape scenes? Well fuck you Big Brother, you can't stop your people from brutally raping women if they want to! Censorship! Censorship!"

EDIT: OK, I checked out the updated news article and found out that in context your character is acting in a movie and the director calls 'cut' right after the rape starts. Still strikes me as incredibly, dangerously tasteless.
Also, as a note, that scene doesn't happen the way it is described. I know this may seem petty, but the board describes the scene as the player "making thrusting actions" aka showing the rape, whereas in the actual video if I recall correctly he walks over her then the scene fades while the crew call a cut. Or a re-take or whatever.

Still, I find it a high hypocrisy that you feel that was the worst part. Before he does any of this he shoots four men in the head with a pistol. How horrible is that? Except people just don't care about that.

OT:
Awesome Dev is awesome. Still gonna try and find a way to pay for it though.
 

JazzJack2

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Arcane Azmadi said:
I'm not surprised it was RC and I'm not terribly sympathetic to the developers if they're going to refuse to edit the game and resubmit it for reclassification.
Why the should they have to edit their game? because moralizing arseholes have decided they can restrict what adults can or can't enjoy without giving any real justification?

There are lines you shouldn't cross.
Oh and why is that? saying art shouldn't depict certain things because it may or may not be tasteless is absurb.
 

Warachia

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As a small legal note: while games that are refused classification are illegal to sell in Australia, they are not actually illegal to own if you manage to get your hands on them some way. However, we at The Escapist do not approve of software piracy in any shape or form, as it is still an illegal act.
It's not an illegal act if the owner of the copyright gives it the okay though, as in this case it won't be illegal for people in Australia to pirate the game, so it's okay to tell them to do it.
 

Warachia

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Arcane Azmadi said:
EDIT: OK, I checked out the updated news article and found out that in context your character is acting in a movie and the director calls 'cut' right after the rape starts. Still strikes me as incredibly, dangerously tasteless.
According to the creator that's a main plot point to the game, and apparently has the female character talking about and dealing with that scene in the movie they were making. It sure is easy to make something look horrible when you take it out of context isn't it?
 

NiPah

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thaluikhain said:
small said:
im wondering that myself, is it illegal if the developer themselves gives people the go ahead to pirate the game..
omega 616 said:
If the people who made the game say go ahead
One of them, who might not be the owner, or sole owner of the IP. Maybe they work with, or for, other people. Or sold the rights to someone else.
He's part of the two man team which owns the company, and the project manager from Devolver digital didn't criticize Jonatan when he gave advice to people who torrented the game during an interview with Eurogamer.

Going off the website Dennaton Games owns the copyright to Hotline Miami, so it wasn't sold to other people.
 

Rozalia1

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Charcharo said:
I know you see the world in black and white (which is IMHO a VERY dangerous way of thinking), but why does this rustle your jimmies so much :( ??

You see, what they did here had the opposite effect with me. I was no interested in the game, but now I am. They probably got a sale now. And dare I say, they probably lost very few sales and gained more with this move.

The publisher was the same for Hotline Miami too. So I guess Devolver is with the developers on this one.
Also, what alternative way do you recommend for Australians? I honestly dont know, we dont have anything resembling censorship on games here.
Because people want any excuse to excuse their rule breaking and this only emboldens them.

Could you quantify that for me? No that isn't possible, but I very much doubt this "goodwill" if you can call it that has made that many more people buy the game.

Australia isn't region locked on Steam is it? No don't think so but if a problem than GOG exists for example.
If that doesn't work than get it on console and use a European/American account to buy it and download it to your console.
 

Steven Bogos

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Rozalia1 said:
Charcharo said:
I know you see the world in black and white (which is IMHO a VERY dangerous way of thinking), but why does this rustle your jimmies so much :( ??

You see, what they did here had the opposite effect with me. I was no interested in the game, but now I am. They probably got a sale now. And dare I say, they probably lost very few sales and gained more with this move.

The publisher was the same for Hotline Miami too. So I guess Devolver is with the developers on this one.
Also, what alternative way do you recommend for Australians? I honestly dont know, we dont have anything resembling censorship on games here.
Because people want any excuse to excuse their rule breaking and this only emboldens them.

Could you quantify that for me? No that isn't possible, but I very much doubt this "goodwill" if you can call it that has made that many more people buy the game.

Australia isn't region locked on Steam is it? No don't think so but if a problem than GOG exists for example.
If that doesn't work than get it on console and use a European/American account to buy it and download it to your console.
I dont see it that way. If they wanted to break the rules they would have/would do it anyway. I dont see how this makes it easier, I really do not.

Like most things that cant be enforced, it depends on good will. Nothing has changed.

I cant quantify anything, this is not technology where I can make objective statements. I just honestly think that this move may have actually gotten a few more sales that would not happen otherwise.

I have no idea about Australia and steam and GoG. If possible, it would be good to get it from there. Getting it from consoles however... yeah...
 

Thaluikhain

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Lunncal said:
thaluikhain said:
Does the developer own the IP? If so, it's not piracy, if not, their opinion isn't that relevant.
Just out of curiosity, do you really consider that important? Not in terms of legality I mean, he probably isn't "sole owner of the IP" and pirating it probably would be technically illegal, but in terms of the morality of it?
Well, going by the logic that piracy is theft, if he's not the sole owner, then he's talking about giving away, or allowing to be stolen, something which isn't just his to give.
 

DEAD34345

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thaluikhain said:
Lunncal said:
thaluikhain said:
Does the developer own the IP? If so, it's not piracy, if not, their opinion isn't that relevant.
Just out of curiosity, do you really consider that important? Not in terms of legality I mean, he probably isn't "sole owner of the IP" and pirating it probably would be technically illegal, but in terms of the morality of it?
Well, going by the logic that piracy is theft, if he's not the sole owner, then he's talking about giving away, or allowing to be stolen, something which isn't just his to give.
I suppose, but that kind of seems to be missing the main point to me. If you go by the logic that any kind of piracy is theft, and by the logic that anything defined as theft is automatically immoral, then pirating this in this case would be immoral by definition. But do you really think any kind of piracy is theft, or that theft is always immoral, even in cases like this?

And if so, why? Do you consider breaking the law to be automatically wrong to begin with? I just don't really understand the angle you're coming from to take issue with this.
 

Rozalia1

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Charcharo said:
I dont see it that way. If they wanted to break the rules they would have/would do it anyway. I dont see how this makes it easier, I really do not.

Like most things that cant be enforced, it depends on good will. Nothing has changed.

I cant quantify anything, this is not technology where I can make objective statements. I just honestly think that this move may have actually gotten a few more sales that would not happen otherwise.

I have no idea about Australia and steam and GoG. If possible, it would be good to get it from there. Getting it from consoles however... yeah...
There are folk out there who just need the little push in regards to such things. There is the matter of being a "gateway" but I'm not going to go into that as you can argue it all day.

Ah yes it slipped my mind. Pirating stuff on PC is better recommended than buying legally on console, sorry about that.
Bloody hell come on now. You're perfectly fine with people pirating this game but find getting it legally on console distasteful... yeah justify yourself how you like on that.

Well whatever the case I've demonstrated that people are more than capable of legally purchasing the game... doesn't matter though does it? Some people were always going to justify themselves with it "not being made available", but this only adds to that.
 

Steven Bogos

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Rozalia1 said:
Charcharo said:
I dont see it that way. If they wanted to break the rules they would have/would do it anyway. I dont see how this makes it easier, I really do not.

Like most things that cant be enforced, it depends on good will. Nothing has changed.

I cant quantify anything, this is not technology where I can make objective statements. I just honestly think that this move may have actually gotten a few more sales that would not happen otherwise.

I have no idea about Australia and steam and GoG. If possible, it would be good to get it from there. Getting it from consoles however... yeah...
There are folk out there who just need the little push in regards to such things. There is the matter of being a "gateway" but I'm not going to go into that as you can argue it all day.

Ah yes it slipped my mind. Pirating stuff on PC is better recommended than buying legally on console, sorry about that.
Bloody hell come on now. You're perfectly fine with people pirating this game but find getting it legally on console distasteful... yeah justify yourself how you like on that.

Well whatever the case I've demonstrated that people are more than capable of legally purchasing the game... doesn't matter though does it? Some people were always going to justify themselves with it "not being made available", but this only adds to that.
I live in a country filled with pirates. A lot more then where you live :)
There is a very simple divide. People that will buy it and those that wont. The second one also includes the pirates. What the developers did here may have actually made the number of the second group smaller and the number of the first a tad bigger.

*And of coarse you are always the correct one for all matters ever and we can argue all day but your opinion is morally just and sound :( :( ... :( *

On to the second point... It is never quite as simple as that. And I did not say pirating is superior to getting it on consoles. Where did I say that?

Australia's classification board is the one to blame here.
 

Rozalia1

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Charcharo said:
I live in a country filled with pirates. A lot more then where you live :)
There is a very simple divide. People that will buy it and those that wont. The second one also includes the pirates. What the developers did here may have actually made the number of the second group smaller and the number of the first a tad bigger.

*And of coarse you are always the correct one for all matters ever and we can argue all day but your opinion is morally just and sound :( :( ... :( *

On to the second point... It is never quite as simple as that. And I did not say pirating is superior to getting it on consoles. Where did I say that?

Australia's classification board is the one to blame here.
Is not often (and often aggressively) that not all pirates pirate everything? Would this not make them go "I would have brought it but they've now told me to go ahead, cool"? They'll still be ways as I've listed but they'll either not know or just ignore it.

That was not what I said. What I said is the issue of something being a gateway especially something like this can be fruitlessly argued either way to no conclusion. We could argue it for several pages or just conclude that there is no actual answer that can be found there.

Nowhere, but I did not say that you said it was "superior", though I suppose it'd not be a stretch to say you did. Word I used was "distasteful". Your response treated it as it was some sort of dishonour... some sort of shame getting it legally on console over illegally. Perhaps my words are too strong, but something definitely was off in what you said.
Anyway you'll be able to get it legally on PC too, I mentioned consoles as you told me to give you some ways around it which that was one.

And yet instead of giving the information that would tell people how to legally obtain the game regardless of the classification board... they tell people to pirate it. Doesn't exactly promote good things.
 

Steven Bogos

The Taco Man
Jan 17, 2013
9,354
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Rozalia1 said:
Charcharo said:
I live in a country filled with pirates. A lot more then where you live :)
There is a very simple divide. People that will buy it and those that wont. The second one also includes the pirates. What the developers did here may have actually made the number of the second group smaller and the number of the first a tad bigger.

*And of coarse you are always the correct one for all matters ever and we can argue all day but your opinion is morally just and sound :( :( ... :( *

On to the second point... It is never quite as simple as that. And I did not say pirating is superior to getting it on consoles. Where did I say that?

Australia's classification board is the one to blame here.
Is not often (and often aggressively) that not all pirates pirate everything? Would this not make them go "I would have brought it but they've now told me to go ahead, cool"? They'll still be ways as I've listed but they'll either not know or just ignore it.

That was not what I said. What I said is the issue of something being a gateway especially something like this can be fruitlessly argued either way to no conclusion. We could argue it for several pages or just conclude that there is no actual answer that can be found there.

Nowhere, but I did not say that you said it was "superior", though I suppose it'd not be a stretch to say you did. Word I used was "distasteful". Your response treated it as it was some sort of dishonour... some sort of shame getting it legally on console over illegally. Perhaps my words are too strong, but something definitely was off in what you said.
Anyway you'll be able to get it legally on PC too, I mentioned consoles as you told me to give you some ways around it which that was one.

And yet instead of giving the information that would tell people how to legally obtain the game regardless of the classification board... they tell people to pirate it. Doesn't exactly promote good things.
I dont know of pirates that operate this way. And I am surrounded by them. Generally, a game as cheap as this will be pirated a LOT less then an expensive one. However the vast majority of pirates here simply wont care and will pirate it anyway. They do not need permission. No one enforces (and CAN NOT enforce it here).
The most that can happen is word of mouth\game sites to inform then what the developers have said or done. For some reason that has the opposite effect of what you say.

Ohh... I was talking in general :(

Yes it is a stretch. I do believe that playing on a console IS inferior, however I did not condemn the possible legality in this case. What was off was that... you did not understand what the wrong with what you said is.
I will get it legally on PC. Where I live, no one gives a shit about what a video game can have.

The way it seems is like a middle finger to the classification board. I approve of it. The message is nice :).
 

Thaluikhain

Elite Member
Legacy
Apr 4, 2020
14,654
608
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Lunncal said:
thaluikhain said:
Lunncal said:
thaluikhain said:
Does the developer own the IP? If so, it's not piracy, if not, their opinion isn't that relevant.
Just out of curiosity, do you really consider that important? Not in terms of legality I mean, he probably isn't "sole owner of the IP" and pirating it probably would be technically illegal, but in terms of the morality of it?
Well, going by the logic that piracy is theft, if he's not the sole owner, then he's talking about giving away, or allowing to be stolen, something which isn't just his to give.
I suppose, but that kind of seems to be missing the main point to me. If you go by the logic that any kind of piracy is theft, and by the logic that anything defined as theft is automatically immoral, then pirating this in this case would be immoral by definition. But do you really think any kind of piracy is theft, or that theft is always immoral, even in cases like this?

And if so, why? Do you consider breaking the law to be automatically wrong to begin with? I just don't really understand the angle you're coming from to take issue with this.
If it belongs to him, then he can give it away. If it doesn't belong (solely) to him, then he can't give it away.