How could Disney redeem itself from The Last Jedi?

Zhukov

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inu-kun said:
Avnger said:
Zhukov said:
Don't worry Zonty old buddy, the lads have got your back. They've made it all better.

https://www.pedestrian.tv/entertainment/last-jedi-mra-fan-edit-women/
And you stole the post I was going to make.
HA HA HA, you get the joke? We called him sexist, we are so clever!
Triggered, lol.

Some people are just so sensitive.
 

Ogoid

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Regarding LotR... why don't we hear it from Tolkien himself?

J. R. R. Tolkien said:
The Lord of the Rings has been read by many people since it finally appeared in print; and I should like to say something here with reference to the many opinions or guesses that I have received or have read concerning the motives and meaning of the tale. The prime motive was the desire of a tale-teller to try his hand at a really long story that would hold the attention of readers, amuse them, delight them, and at times maybe excite them or deeply move them.

[...]

As for any inner meaning or 'message', it has in the intention of the author none. It is neither allegorical nor topical. As the story grew it put down roots (into the past) and threw out unexpected branches: but its main theme was settled from the outset by the inevitable choice of the Ring as the link between it and The Hobbit. The crucial chapter, "The Shadow of the Past', is one of the oldest parts of the tale. It was written long before the foreshadow of 1939 had yet become a threat of inevitable disaster, and from that point the story would have developed along essentially the same lines, if that disaster had been averted. Its sources are things long before in mind, or in some cases already written, and little or nothing in it was modified by the war that began in 1939 or its sequels.
(Emphasis mine.)

Turns out escapist fantasy for its own sake, regardless of how much one is assured such a thing does not exist these days, is something most people can enjoy.

Fancy that.
 

Jamcie Kerbizz

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Hawki said:
Jamcie Kerbizz said:
* - one of the reasons recent movies flopped on asian market (esp. China&Japan), central and eastern EU+Russia, Africa etc.) in comparison to originals). People hate foreign, politicized piss in their entertainment. People take umbrage to token 'minority' characters, 'problematic' plots, progressive 'innovative' sermons being shoved into their faces. All the while (unlike in usa and uk) used token constitutes majority in their respective country, they have their own existentional set of issues to deal with and don't want to be lectured by people who have clearly no idea how life outside of usa and uk looks like, they want to be treated as equals and be recognised as people and/or nations not pandered to as opressed classes or ethincities with tragic past.
...where the hell have the Disney Star Wars movies done anything like that?
To reply quickly.
There's a shoved in token 'asian girl' with, shoved in 'corrupt western capitalism is bad' plot in middle of the last movie, which both were suppose to be a smashing opener of chinese market to Disney...
Unfortunately a) girl isn't appealing when it comes to local standards, b) her role, sentiments and 'heroism' are unrelatable c) that 'pivotal' plot is actually taking a great piss on everything most modern chinese aspire to have.

If people at Disney had 2 brain cells they would have made several of Snoke's guards being played by chinese actors, show that many of troopers on First Order side are also asian and actually flesh out the whole sub-plot with Canto Bight as more of Hong Kong style - with message: if you are resourceful you can be successful regardless of the side you make your money off.
 

dscross

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Like you, I didn't enjoy it myself but I think a lot of people did, so Im not sure Disney needs to 'redeem' itself. Horses for courses.
 

Warhound

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Hawki said:
Jamcie Kerbizz said:
* - one of the reasons recent movies flopped on asian market (esp. China&Japan), central and eastern EU+Russia, Africa etc.) in comparison to originals). People hate foreign, politicized piss in their entertainment. People take umbrage to token 'minority' characters, 'problematic' plots, progressive 'innovative' sermons being shoved into their faces. All the while (unlike in usa and uk) used token constitutes majority in their respective country, they have their own existentional set of issues to deal with and don't want to be lectured by people who have clearly no idea how life outside of usa and uk looks like, they want to be treated as equals and be recognised as people and/or nations not pandered to as opressed classes or ethincities with tragic past.
...where the hell have the Disney Star Wars movies done anything like that?
Its all over their new movies. Thats why The Last Jedi dropped 92% in its second week.

http://comicbook.com/starwars/2018/01/16/star-wars-the-last-jedi-china-box-office-drop/

The Chinese have a very specific insult for that stuff which Hollywood and liberals looooove.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baizuo

So when that stuff is piled down their throats they just roll their eyes and drop it.
 

Zhukov

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Dec 29, 2009
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inu-kun said:
Zhukov said:
inu-kun said:
Avnger said:
Zhukov said:
Don't worry Zonty old buddy, the lads have got your back. They've made it all better.

https://www.pedestrian.tv/entertainment/last-jedi-mra-fan-edit-women/
And you stole the post I was going to make.
HA HA HA, you get the joke? We called him sexist, we are so clever!
Triggered, lol.

Some people are just so sensitive.
Sorry for being triggered for you straight up insulting others, good thing the Escapist has such good moderation to prevents such insults.
I never said anything about sexism. I pointed out that some valient heroes of mankind's culture war had bravely sought to redeem the agenda-driven travesty that was The Last Jedi with some skillful editing.

Why so defensive brah?
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Warhound said:
Its all over their new movies. Thats why The Last Jedi dropped 92% in its second week.

http://comicbook.com/starwars/2018/01/16/star-wars-the-last-jedi-china-box-office-drop/
There's a very pertinent sentence in your source: "That 92% decrease continues to spell doom for the People's Republic, where Star Wars has always had trouble." So this isn't exactly a new problem for Star Wars in China. Also, let's remember the later sentiments of your source: "This past week saw the latest entry in the Skywalker Saga become the highest grossing film of 2017, just passing Disney's live-action remake of Beauty and the Beast." and "And yet the fact remains that Star Wars: The Last Jedi is one of the most financially successful films of all time."

I'd say Disney are probably feeling pretty good about TLJ and its' gross about now.
 

Neurotic Void Melody

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they should make a coming-of-age film about a Swedish Transgender Muslim trying to cope on a world full hostility towards them for things they never did, and how they slowly learn to cope and survive, because I know how much you types love that sort of cultural social exploration in you filmsies. Oh and the cast is most certainly going to be diverse, where every character will look at the screen and justify their very existence for you as to why they have taken the rightful place of the hard working white man who is never a Gary Stu unlike anybody who dares take their place. Oh and the main romance indeed be a homosexual one. It won't even be advertised that way, so you won't know till you're already in the cinema.

also rogue one was absolute shite. A sad waste of a talented and diverse cast that do better in almost every other film they're in. It's just a glorified cosplay/larp event or whatever
 

Casual Shinji

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I'd rather all Star Wars go away. Even the original movies. I'm so sick of this song and dance. This fucking geek fan vommit that errupts every goddamn year.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Casual Shinji said:
I'd rather all Star Wars go away. Even the original movies. I'm so sick of this song and dance. This fucking geek fan vommit that errupts every goddamn year.
Warhammer 40k > Star Wars anyway.
 

Darth Rosenberg

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Oh, one of The Great Zontar's threads? Okay then, I'll roll with it.

Disney are still helping to make the MCU, so they don't need to do a damn thing (MCU > Star Wars these days). I think I kinda hated TLJ, but even if Kathleen Kennedy realised maybe starting a new trilogy in one of the biggest franchises in cinema history without a defined arc was a terrible idea, they've made their stupid, senseless bed and so they have to lie in it.

Or, rather, JJ does when he - forgive the mixed metaphors - has to untangle the mess left in Rian's paradoxically 'subversive' yet utterly gutlessly conservative wake.

TLJ was a critical success, as well as a commercial one, so, yeah... They really don't need to do anything.

As Mike and Jay (who both weren't exactly gushing about the wheel spinning TLJ) from Half In The Bag quipped, the screeching man-baby fans won't be happy until they've all scripted their own version of TLJ, resulting in everyone having their film - and no one will be happy as everyone will still be bitching about everyone else's versions... It's the future of nerd culture! Self-entitlement and misery for all!

Annoyingly, every time I actually start to really pick apart TLJ I begin to sound like a screechingly self-entitled man-baby fan... so I should just stop here. I mean, awesome. They made a film to get people talking, at least. Like a house made from meringue and staples, I can respect that it's definitely a talking point.

Ogoid said:
(Emphasis mine.)

Turns out escapist fantasy for its own sake, regardless of how much one is assured such a thing does not exist these days, is something most people can enjoy.

Fancy that.
So an author of a work claims it as one thing, and that's all it is? Is your relationship to art so horribly reductive?

Critique of art is always a tricky thing, and I certainly don't fall into such a reductive, lazy trap (authorial intent would largely nix vast swathes of commentary and discourse through the ages), but neither do I wholly roll with the death of the author approach. Being mindful of what amounts to both ends of the spectrum is usually best. Frankly, both approaches can 'explain' or help make sense of Tolkien's work in different ways.
 

Wintermute_v1legacy

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Casual Shinji said:
I'd rather all Star Wars go away. Even the original movies. I'm so sick of this song and dance. This fucking geek fan vommit that errupts every goddamn year.
Yeah this... I can avoid Star Wars just fine, BUT it's still annoying when I'm watching a movie or a show and the characters mention some Star Wars shit.

It's never going away though, because billions of dollars.
 

Silvanus

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Jamcie Kerbizz said:
There's a shoved in token 'asian girl' with, shoved in 'corrupt western capitalism is bad' plot in middle of the last movie, which both were suppose to be a smashing opener of chinese market to Disney...
Unfortunately a) girl isn't appealing when it comes to local standards, b) her role, sentiments and 'heroism' are unrelatable c) that 'pivotal' plot is actually taking a great piss on everything most modern chinese aspire to have.
Ah, so the "politicised piss" is actually just the presence of an Asian actress, even though no attention is brought to that fact in the movie; and you interpret arms dealers to be a direct allegory of "western Capitalism".

This political argument you're trying to make is built on such weak, flimsy foundations. You have to cut so many corners, describe it in such a reductionist manner, to force it to fit this preconceived political point.

The only one aggressively politicising it here is you. They just cast an Asian actress; you're the one that "lectured" us about it, because the film didn't even bring it up.

Casual Shinji said:
I'd rather all Star Wars go away. Even the original movies. I'm so sick of this song and dance. This fucking geek fan vommit that errupts every goddamn year.
Well, you know, except in those ten years between Episode III and Episode Episode VII.
 

BreakfastMan

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They don't have to change a thing; I honestly really enjoyed it. So I say keep doing what they have been doing, because both The Last Jedi and Rogue One have been absolute bangers.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Silvanus said:
Jamcie Kerbizz said:
There's a shoved in token 'asian girl' with, shoved in 'corrupt western capitalism is bad' plot in middle of the last movie, which both were suppose to be a smashing opener of chinese market to Disney...
Unfortunately a) girl isn't appealing when it comes to local standards, b) her role, sentiments and 'heroism' are unrelatable c) that 'pivotal' plot is actually taking a great piss on everything most modern chinese aspire to have.
Ah, so the "politicised piss" is actually just the presence of an Asian actress, even though no attention is brought to that fact in the movie; and you interpret arms dealers to be a direct allegory of "western Capitalism".

This political argument you're trying to make is built on such weak, flimsy foundations. You have to cut so many corners, describe it in such a reductionist manner, to force it to fit this preconceived political point.

The only one aggressively politicising it here is you. They just cast an Asian actress; you're the one that "lectured" us about it, because the film didn't even bring it up.
Let the mighty Sargon of Akkad give you a clear explination and I don't want to write an explination in text because it would take forever for me to finish, I just want to know your response to this so I can see a counter arguement because I need a counter arguement against this video:

 

Silvanus

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Samtemdo8 said:
Let the mighty Sargon of Akkad give you a clear explination and I don't want to write an explination in text because it would take forever for me to finish, I just want to know your response to this so I can see a counter arguement because I need a counter arguement against this video
There's no damn way I'm wasting 30 (more) minutes on Sargon of Akkad. I've watched videos of his before, and they tend to be steeped in smugness and sophistry.

If you want a rebuttal to any particular points, I'd be happy to provide them.
 

Samtemdo8_v1legacy

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Silvanus said:
Samtemdo8 said:
Let the mighty Sargon of Akkad give you a clear explination and I don't want to write an explination in text because it would take forever for me to finish, I just want to know your response to this so I can see a counter arguement because I need a counter arguement against this video
There's no damn way I'm wasting 30 (more) minutes on Sargon of Akkad. I've watched videos of his before, and they tend to be steeped in smugness and sophistry.

If you want a rebuttal to any particular points, I'd be happy to provide them.
Eh its the usual stuff you would expect hear from Sargon of Akkad.
 

Ogoid

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Darth Rosenberg said:
So an author of a work claims it as one thing, and that's all it is? Is your relationship to art so horribly reductive?

Critique of art is always a tricky thing, and I certainly don't fall into such a reductive, lazy trap (authorial intent would largely nix vast swathes of commentary and discourse through the ages), but neither do I wholly roll with the death of the author approach. Being mindful of what amounts to both ends of the spectrum is usually best. Frankly, both approaches can 'explain' or help make sense of Tolkien's work in different ways.
Considering it was precisely my acquaintance with "commentary and discourse" that led me to my present conclusion as to its actual worth... yes, I'm afraid it is.
 

Darth Rosenberg

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Ogoid said:
Considering it was precisely my acquaintance with "commentary and discourse" that led me to my present conclusion as to its actual worth... yes, I'm afraid it is.
I'm not entirely sure what you're conceding to. Your approach being irrelevantly reductive ('Thus spake The Creator')? If so, kudos for owning it, I suppose.

/edit

BreakfastMan said:
They don't have to change a thing; I honestly really enjoyed it. So I say keep doing what they have been doing, because both The Last Jedi and Rogue One have been absolute bangers.
I really liked Rogue One with a few caveats bolted onto it (given how much of TFA TLJ sabotages, I'm beginning to think Rogue One's the best of the new SW films), but how can a film so light on characterisation - and ultimately with an irrelevant plot no one needed to see occur - be described as an "absolute banger" (putting aside that term just makes me think of '90's raves... )?
 

Casual Shinji

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Silvanus said:
Casual Shinji said:
I'd rather all Star Wars go away. Even the original movies. I'm so sick of this song and dance. This fucking geek fan vommit that errupts every goddamn year.
Well, you know, except in those ten years between Episode III and Episode Episode VII.
Yeah well, treasure those years, because Star Wars along with Marvel is going to be shoved down our gullet for the foreseeable future. And more so than the movies themselves, the geek (corporate) fanfare surrounding it is enough to choke the life out of every living thing on Earth.