How could Disney redeem itself from The Last Jedi?

Zhukov

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Jamcie Kerbizz said:
There's a shoved in token 'asian girl' with, shoved in 'corrupt western capitalism is bad' plot in middle of the last movie, which both were suppose to be a smashing opener of chinese market to Disney...
Wait, wait, wait...

You think they were trying to pander to Chinese audiences by casting a previously unknown American-born woman of Vietnamese descent?

...

What are you smoking? Can I have some?

We've seen how Hollywood tries to appeal to China. They cast Chinese actors who are, y'know, already popular to Chinese audiences. That's why Tranformers 4 had some random Chinese dude walk up and kung-fu some mooks then exit stage left without a word.
 

Gordon_4_v1legacy

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Zhukov said:
Jamcie Kerbizz said:
There's a shoved in token 'asian girl' with, shoved in 'corrupt western capitalism is bad' plot in middle of the last movie, which both were suppose to be a smashing opener of chinese market to Disney...
Wait, wait, wait...

You think they were trying to pander to Chinese audiences by casting a previously unknown American-born woman of Vietnamese descent?

...

What are you smoking? Can I have some?

We've seen how Hollywood tries to appeal to China. They cast Chinese actors who are, y'know, already popular to Chinese audiences. That's why Tranformers 4 had some random Chinese dude walk up and kung-fu some mooks then exit stage left without a word.
Well strictly speaking that was Fan Bingbing?s job. Though gievn the Transformers toys are made in China, they were able to do some hilarious meta commentary on manufacturing. Iron Man 3 or Age of Ultron had a hilariously obvious scene filmed specifically for the Chinese market that wasn?t in any other release.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Zhukov said:
Jamcie Kerbizz said:
There's a shoved in token 'asian girl' with, shoved in 'corrupt western capitalism is bad' plot in middle of the last movie, which both were suppose to be a smashing opener of chinese market to Disney...
Wait, wait, wait...

You think they were trying to pander to Chinese audiences by casting a previously unknown American-born woman of Vietnamese descent?

...

What are you smoking? Can I have some?

We've seen how Hollywood tries to appeal to China. They cast Chinese actors who are, y'know, already popular to Chinese audiences. That's why Tranformers 4 had some random Chinese dude walk up and kung-fu some mooks then exit stage left without a word.
"Well, why else would they hire a minority if they weren't trying to pander?"

Although I think it's hugely telling that a heavy handed critique of elite power structures surviving and profiting off of devastating wars is read as a critique of "corrupt western capitalism". So close to an epiphany.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Jamcie Kerbizz said:
Cringe politicised piss, were things like democracy dies in thunderous applause dropped in prequels (as of oh noes Bush taken away our freedom whinging).
Lucas has always been political like that.
Rich get richer while poor kids and animals suffer nonsense dropped in rendition of f-ing porto cervo(authistic communist argument that wealth comes from opressing and abusing the weak and meek).
But where's the lie?
Arms dealers sell weapons to both sides of a confflict presented as ground breaking revelation (painting Finn a retard).
Dude was a child soldier, he's gonna be ignorant of general life experiences and the politics of armament procurement.
Producer parading in shirt force is a female (bigger cringe than midiclorians as if now force has got to have a dong or a slit wtf? why drag SW into that drama).
...wha?
Lack of cast diversity on First Order side all the while there is visible effort done to have it on the other side
(why bother with diversity when it is done in judgmental, selective and divisive way that contradicts its essence and reeks of PC instead of pragmatism)
Okay, so how do you do it "correctly"? Seriously, let us know.
Racist and sexist token approach to casting in general, which is alien (and alienating) concept to people living in homogeneous societies.
This I actually agree with. I mean, out of 10 principle characters you get 5 white dudes? White dudes don't make up half the population, so what the fuck's up?
 

Hawki

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Jamcie Kerbizz said:
There's a shoved in token 'asian girl' with,
Rose isn't a 'token Asian girl.'

A token character is defined as a character with one attribute being the sole compotent of their identity - the 'black character,' or the 'gay character, or the 'female character,' etc. Rose's ethnicity has nothing to do with her role in the film (ethnicity has never played a part in Star Wars anyway). I'm not overly fond of Rose as a character, but she's not shoved in. She has a defined personality, backstory, and is part of the impetus of the Canto Blight plot thread.

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
shoved in 'corrupt western capitalism is bad' plot in middle of the last movie,
Um, where?

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
which both were suppose to be a smashing opener of chinese market to Disney...
Source needed.

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
Unfortunately a) girl isn't appealing when it comes to local standards,
God forbid a female character not look like a super model.

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
b) her role, sentiments and 'heroism' are unrelatable
Disagree. Unless you mean to the Chinese, in which case I can't comment.

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
c) that 'pivotal' plot is actually taking a great piss on everything most modern chinese aspire to have.
Which is predicated on your assumption that Rose is designed to 'appease' the Chinese market - an assertion you've provided no source for.

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
If people at Disney had 2 brain cells they would have made several of Snoke's guards being played by chinese actors, show that many of troopers on First Order side are also asian
All the guards and troopers are fully clad in armour, how does that even matter?

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
and actually flesh out the whole sub-plot with Canto Bight as more of Hong Kong style - with message: if you are resourceful you can be successful regardless of the side you make your money off.
Um...are you seriously criticizing Canto Blight for having the 'wrong message?'

The message of Canto Blight is that there's no black and white in war, that both sides can, and will get their hands dirty, and a shiny veneer can hide a dark underbelly. I don't find it a particuarly compelling or well layered message, but it has nothing to do with capitalism.

Warhound said:
Its all over their new movies.
Where? Actually cite a specific scene.

Warhound said:
Thats why The Last Jedi dropped 92% in its second week.
Star Wars has never done particuarly well in China. Doesn't help that the film opened alongside a major Chinese comedy.

Also, considering that TLJ still grossed over 1 billion, I don't think the films are in any financial trouble.

Darth Rosenberg said:
(MCU > Star Wars these days).
That...is sadly possibly right.

(Hell, did I just agree with DR? 0_0)

Samtemdo8 said:
Let the mighty Sargon of Akkad give you a clear explination
First of all, it's spelt "explanation."

Second of all...Sargon of Akkad? Come on Sam, I thought you were better than this. :(

PsychedelicDiamond said:
I feel like the backlash against The Last Jedi is a display of autism, the depth and scope of which I find nearly impossible to comprehend.
Impossible to comprehend?

Mate, it's all too possible to comprehend. Fans are fans. And some fans are like rabid dogs, frothing at the mouth, infecting those around them with their rage.

Zontar said:
To put it simply, there's a reason why the movie is a critical failure where audiences either hate it or don't think it's that bad, but no one actually loves it outside of the critic bubble,
I've seen far too many people declare that they love it for that to be true. I'm not one of them, but I think that's an unfair assertion.

Zontar said:
It's not even that Disney is inherently the issue, Rogue One didn't suffer many of these problems.
Personally I'd cite Rogue One as the worst Disney-era Star Wars film. It's a mess of pacing with bland, forgettable characters. Film's only saved by its third act, by the scope and execution of its battle scene.

peacefulescape said:
Call me mainstream but probably another 10 more Marvel movies thrown in
But...aren't we getting them anyway?

(God, that's depressing.)

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
The only flimsy thing is your ability to address an argument without misrepresenting it. As per usual, you're wrong.
This is not politicized piss, this is pandering to asian market
How?

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
The way this movie failed there speaks volumes itself.
Again, Star Wars has never done that well in China when compared to the West.

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
they like heros like Jakson's Windu, not Boyega's Finn...
Source needed.

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
Cringe politicised piss, were things like democracy dies in thunderous applause dropped in prequels (as of oh noes Bush taken away our freedom whinging).
Personally, I saw it as more of a reference to Rome, how it went from a Republic to an Empire. I know that wasn't Lucas's intent, but art doesn't exist in a vacuum.

Also, that's a kind of disturbing line of thought there, the idea that art should never take inspiration from the real world. Off the top of my head, that's like saying Charles Dickens should have never written works that dealt with issues such as child labour and poverty, as they were issues that existed at the time. Not that I'm comparing Star Wars to Dickens, but it's the same principle - art can engage with the issues of the day.

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
Arms dealers sell weapons to both sides of a confflict presented as ground breaking revelation (painting Finn a retard).
Disagree. It's perfectly understandable that Finn wouldn't be in on that. He was raised as a soldier by and organization with the sole intent of turning him into a killing machine. Likewise, he'd have a romanticized view of the Rebellion/Resistance as the opponent to the First Order/Empire. Finn isn't worldly in knowledge.

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
Producer parading in shirt force is a female (bigger cringe than midiclorians as if now force has got to have a dong or a slit wtf? why drag SW into that drama).
Agree there actually.


Lack of cast diversity on First Order side all the while there is visible effort done to have it on the other side[/quote]

You...do realize that the First Order is filled with female and/or non-white officers, right? I'll grant you the main cast is caucasian, but the First Order has a smaller pool of characters to draw from, and one of them (Kylo) has to be white by virtue of biology.

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
(why bother with diversity when it is done in judgmental, selective and divisive way that contradicts its essence and reeks of PC instead of pragmatism).
How?

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
Racist and sexist token approach to casting in general,
How?

Seriously, how? You keep going on about diversity, but you seem to be the only one with a problem with it. Again, ethnicity is a moot point in Star Wars, and has never been brought up once in the films.

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
which is alien (and alienating) concept to people living in homogeneous societies.
So...good thing I don't live in China then?

altnameJag said:
I mean, out of 10 principle characters you get 5 white dudes? White dudes don't make up half the population, so what the fuck's up?
Oh come on, you were doing so well up till now.

Thing is, I wouldn't have noticed any 'issues of diversity' until people brought it up, and even then I'm not seeing the issue. Skin colour doesn't matter in the Star Wars setting, and in this day and age, it shouldn't matter to us.
 

Hawki

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Zhukov said:
We've seen how Hollywood tries to appeal to China. They cast Chinese actors who are, y'know, already popular to Chinese audiences. That's why Tranformers 4 had some random Chinese dude walk up and kung-fu some mooks then exit stage left without a word.
I missed that, but it reminds me of two films that were accused of pandering to China. I feel in this context it's important to bring them up. One is Independence Day: Resurgence, the other is The Martian.

In the former, I think there's a bit of a case to be made to "pandering to China," but not necesarily for the reasons I've seen. In ID1, the US is basically the 'hero nation' - all the characters are American, it's America that unites the world, it's America's Independence Day that provides the film with its title, etc. In IDR, China has a significant role in Earth's global defence system. I've seen this as an example of pandering, but I don't buy it. The entire EDF is pretty diverse in terms of country of origin, and it would make sense that China plays a role in the defence of Earth when it's one of the largest nations in terms of military and population.

No, what's an example of pandering is the character of Rain, who's a Chinese pilot played by a famous Chinese actress. Nothing wrong with that, except Rain has no character. Her backstory is that she's the daughter of the Chinese general that commands the moon base, she's an ace pilot, and...that's it. That's the extent of her character, the extent of her backstory, and she has no character development over the course of the film. She simply exists to tag along with the other characters. Now, IDR has far too many characters vying for screentime anyway, but Rain is what I'd call an example of tokenism - she has no character or role outside of her nationality, relationship with her father, and her position as a pilot.

Now contrast that with Rose. Rose is a defined character within Last Jedi. We know that she's lost her sister, and is beraved. We know that she's a mechanic for the Resistance, and has stopped soldiers jumping ship. We know that she's in awe of Finn, but has that awe shattered when she sees him for what he is (a scared human being on a ship full of scared people). She provides some of the impetus for Canto Blight. We know she grew up in a place like Canto Blight, and hates Canto Blight because of the type of place it is. By the end of the story, she's fallen for Finn, but it's up in the air whether that affection is reciprocated.

See the difference? Rain is a character that exists only in proxy to the main characters, and is defined by her nationality. Rose is a main character of her own, has a defined backstory and character arc, and provides impetus for the plot. Unlike Rain, nationality or race is never brought up wit her. Hollywood has pandered to China (but it's pandered to everyone over time), but the difference is that with Rose, you could have a non-Asian actress and she'd be the same character. With Rain, her character wouldn't work with a non-Asian actress.

And then there's The Martian. I remember on this site that some people accused it of "pandering" to China because part of the plot involved China having a role in the rescue of Mark Watney...either ignoring or not knowing that this plot point was taken from the original novel, and it makes sense in the context, because China is a spacefaring nation, and chances are that decades from now, in the timeframe of the book/film, it'll still be a spacefaring nation.

Which is a bit of a sad reflection on our times really. I see far more people complaining about "diversity" being pushed down our throats, when I wouldn't have noticed anything regardless. Same how I see far more complaining about SJWs than from SJWs.
 

Jamcie Kerbizz

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Zhukov said:
Jamcie Kerbizz said:
There's a shoved in token 'asian girl' with, shoved in 'corrupt western capitalism is bad' plot in middle of the last movie, which both were suppose to be a smashing opener of chinese market to Disney...
Wait, wait, wait...

You think they were trying to pander to Chinese audiences by casting a previously unknown American-born woman of Vietnamese descent?

...

What are you smoking? Can I have some?

We've seen how Hollywood tries to appeal to China. They cast Chinese actors who are, y'know, already popular to Chinese audiences. That's why Tranformers 4 had some random Chinese dude walk up and kung-fu some mooks then exit stage left without a word.
Instead of typing 'wait, wait, wait' try to read entriety first.
That's one of the reasons why they failed with this aaand why I suggested things that have already been done to... greater success, which you repeat giving Transformers as an example, which completely irrationalizes your bewilderment, if you actually have read everything I wrote.

I'd still argue that casting few chinese action movie actors for snoke's guard and casting established 'star' for Rose's role (or someone talented) could have been better buuuuuut only if the role and character was written decently in the first place and Canto arc wasn't such a nonsense. And yeah you may scoff at Transformers but they were successful. SW failed.
All could have been way better written and received, if eg. tracking through hyperspace technology was a spoof, Rose was an agent who took Finn and others on wild goose chase to protect tracking devise she actually planted. Strong, intelligent, 'imperial' character that gives sliver of credibility to Holdo and Leia's nonsense. Could make Finn confronting his former allies at least a bit interesting (point of confronting being loyal to your 'country'and doing your duty - Rose (setting her individual values aside for collective better future) vs. not having guts to do what needs to be done, betraying your countrymen and joining enemy - Finn (following his individual values). If you have watched chinese movies from last decade, they address and discuss these clashing concepts a lot so that would actually be a familiar theme and imo successful nod to chinese audience.

And problem with dim individuls calling such casting 'minority' hires is that they can't somehow comprehend, that these are not minorities in respective markets outside USA. They are not percieved as such and that's the whole point. There's nothing exotic about them, nothing rightius about hiring them. If they are bad at doing their job and their job(role) is poorly made in the first place, it just sticks out like a sore thumb. When pragmatism is out of the window question is what agenda took its place. If Disney wasn't actually trying to pander to chinese market why this disjoint role in the first place. Why bother with that character and arc? From idiotic bombers to magical survival and dragging the corpse back to salty cave it adds nothing but bad to the already long movie. If they actually do ignore 2nd biggest movie market in the world (yeah, because ofcourse they are corporation that hates money and would have never tried to go big there, right? but ok lets pretend that's true) why not focus more on Finn and give him screen time and character development, that actor and his role deserves?
 

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Zhukov said:
trunkage said:
Zhukov said:
I never said anything about sexism. I pointed out that some valient heroes of mankind's culture war had bravely sought to redeem the agenda-driven travesty that was The Last Jedi with some skillful editing.

Why so defensive brah?
Alright, query unrelated to Star Wars. Sorry.

When people whinge about passive aggressiveness on the Escapist, is this what they mean? Ive been trying to see it for years and this seems to be the closest it's got that I've read
Oh God, it was me killing the Escapist all along!

What have I done?
Yeah, I'm a little surprised too
 

Gethsemani_v1legacy

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Jamcie Kerbizz said:
I'd still argue that casting few chinese action movie actors for snoke's guard and casting established 'star' for Rose's role (or someone talented) could have been better buuuuuut only if the role and character was written decently in the first place and Canto arc wasn't such a nonsense. And yeah you may scoff at Transformers but they were successful. SW failed.
All could have been way better written and received, if eg. tracking through hyperspace technology was a spoof, Rose was an agent who took Finn and others on wild goose chase to protect tracking devise she actually planted. Strong, intelligent, 'imperial' character that gives sliver of credibility to Holdo and Leia's nonsense. Could make Finn confronting his former allies at least a bit interesting (point of confronting being loyal to your 'country'and doing your duty - Rose (setting her individual values aside for collective better future) vs. not having guts to do what needs to be done, betraying your countrymen and joining enemy - Finn (following his individual values). If you have watched chinese movies from last decade, they address and discuss these clashing concepts a lot so that would actually be a familiar theme and imo successful nod to chinese audience.
So basically, ditch all the themes of TLJ, set up a new pair of themes and hope that a market you didn't expect to do well in, based on the historically poor reception of the film franchise in that market, will suddenly embrace you? What's that thing you guys like to speak about when it comes to games and changing stuff to suit people who might not play the game anyway? Something like the artist should be free to do what they like?

Hawki said:
See the difference? Rain is a character that exists only in proxy to the main characters, and is defined by her nationality. Rose is a main character of her own, has a defined backstory and character arc, and provides impetus for the plot. Unlike Rain, nationality or race is never brought up wit her. Hollywood has pandered to China (but it's pandered to everyone over time), but the difference is that with Rose, you could have a non-Asian actress and she'd be the same character. With Rain, her character wouldn't work with a non-Asian actress.
You make a fine post, but ultimately it will fall on deaf ears. The anti-progressive people that call Rose, Finn and Rey token characters or accuse these movies of pandering aren't really interested in an in-depth analysis. Like so many other times they've co-opted words from progressive circles (tokenism and pandering, for example), learned the most superficial way to define them and then turn around and accuse anything they feel is progressive media of doing these things that progressive people criticize. It is a really poor attempt at a tu quoque-fallacy, because they at least understand that tokenism is a more accepted criticism then "I want more white men in my movie". None of the characters in TFA or TLJ that have been accused of pandering or tokenism are really such, the problem with them is that some men just can't stand the idea that the protagonists of a successful blockbuster movie aren't white men.
 

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Jamcie Kerbizz said:
Zhukov said:
Jamcie Kerbizz said:
There's a shoved in token 'asian girl' with, shoved in 'corrupt western capitalism is bad' plot in middle of the last movie, which both were suppose to be a smashing opener of chinese market to Disney...
Wait, wait, wait...

You think they were trying to pander to Chinese audiences by casting a previously unknown American-born woman of Vietnamese descent?

...

What are you smoking? Can I have some?

We've seen how Hollywood tries to appeal to China. They cast Chinese actors who are, y'know, already popular to Chinese audiences. That's why Tranformers 4 had some random Chinese dude walk up and kung-fu some mooks then exit stage left without a word.
Instead of typing 'wait, wait, wait' try to read entriety first.
That's one of the reasons why they failed with this aaand why I suggested things that have already been done to... greater success, which you repeat giving Transformers as an example, which completely irrationalizes your bewilderment, if you actually have read everything I wrote.

I'd still argue that casting few chinese action movie actors for snoke's guard and casting established 'star' for Rose's role (or someone talented) could have been better buuuuuut only if the role and character was written decently in the first place and Canto arc wasn't such a nonsense. And yeah you may scoff at Transformers but they were successful. SW failed.
All could have been way better written and received, if eg. tracking through hyperspace technology was a spoof, Rose was an agent who took Finn and others on wild goose chase to protect tracking devise she actually planted. Strong, intelligent, 'imperial' character that gives sliver of credibility to Holdo and Leia's nonsense. Could make Finn confronting his former allies at least a bit interesting (point of confronting being loyal to your 'country'and doing your duty - Rose (setting her individual values aside for collective better future) vs. not having guts to do what needs to be done, betraying your countrymen and joining enemy - Finn (following his individual values). If you have watched chinese movies from last decade, they address and discuss these clashing concepts a lot so that would actually be a familiar theme and imo successful nod to chinese audience.

And problem with dim individuls calling such casting 'minority' hires is that they can't somehow comprehend, that these are not minorities in respective markets outside USA. They are not percieved as such and that's the whole point. There's nothing exotic about them, nothing rightius about hiring them. If they are bad at doing their job and their job(role) is poorly made in the first place, it just sticks out like a sore thumb. When pragmatism is out of the window question is what agenda took its place. If Disney wasn't actually trying to pander to chinese market why this disjoint role in the first place. Why bother with that character and arc? From idiotic bombers to magical survival and dragging the corpse back to salty cave it adds nothing but bad to the already long movie. If they actually do ignore 2nd biggest movie market in the world (yeah, because ofcourse they are corporation that hates money and would have never tried to go big there, right? but ok lets pretend that's true) why not focus more on Finn and give him screen time and character development, that actor and his role deserves?
Dude, did you know that Asian people are really good at distinguishing between each other?
It's similar to how white people can roughly tell apart different ethnicities within each other, and I don't think Chinese people would care much about Rose since she is not Chinese, so I highly doubt she was an attempt to pander to that demographic, and to be honest your suggestion to more obviously pander to that demographic is kinda dumb, since those guys wear helmets and for all we know they could be Chinese already, in any case, the movie is extremely flawed and has a lot of problems but I really don't think the diversity of the casting is one of them, that seems to be a problem exclusively to racist morons that are making storms in glasses of water, I mean seriusly crticize the lack of logic in the character's decisions rather than the colour of the actors playing them, makes more sense to me.
And yes it's fine to complain about Rose, I didn't cre for her either but that had nothing to do with her being a minority and more to do do with the fact that she wasn't particularly interesting and both her romance and the Canto Bight subplot feeling really forced.
 

Jamcie Kerbizz

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Gethsemani said:
Jamcie Kerbizz said:
I'd still argue that casting few chinese action movie actors for snoke's guard and casting established 'star' for Rose's role (or someone talented) could have been better buuuuuut only if the role and character was written decently in the first place and Canto arc wasn't such a nonsense. And yeah you may scoff at Transformers but they were successful. SW failed.
All could have been way better written and received, if eg. tracking through hyperspace technology was a spoof, Rose was an agent who took Finn and others on wild goose chase to protect tracking devise she actually planted. Strong, intelligent, 'imperial' character that gives sliver of credibility to Holdo and Leia's nonsense. Could make Finn confronting his former allies at least a bit interesting (point of confronting being loyal to your 'country'and doing your duty - Rose (setting her individual values aside for collective better future) vs. not having guts to do what needs to be done, betraying your countrymen and joining enemy - Finn (following his individual values). If you have watched chinese movies from last decade, they address and discuss these clashing concepts a lot so that would actually be a familiar theme and imo successful nod to chinese audience.
So basically, ditch all the themes of TLJ, set up a new pair of themes and hope that a market you didn't expect to do well in, based on the historically poor reception of the film franchise in that market, will suddenly embrace you? What's that thing you guys like to speak about when it comes to games and changing stuff to suit people who might not play the game anyway? Something like the artist should be free to do what they like?
First of all, pretty please refrain from the 'you guys' or explain yourself, what exactly you mean and who are you lumping me with and why?
Secondly I argue that artistic vision for the sake of marketing already had happened but was done poorly with visible detriment to integrity and quality of the movie and point how it was done to better success and propose my take on that.
I am not arguing, no you can't pander to chinese to make money or no you can't have character like Rose at all but instead call for doing it better.
As to artistic vision and freedom. I am all for that but it's not a leeway to create rubbish and call it art nor criticism of it. Gauge here being popularity and no, popularity is a fair gaguge for entertainment. Even though said entertainment is a form of art. I would also be against even my own adaptation of TLJ the way I described it, if they did that for ie. chinese market only (which is a common practise in localization projects but also in movies done to add a layer of exclusivity but imo it kills artistic vision and adds disonance, hindering much needed cultural exchange).
 

Zhukov

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Kaleion said:
It's similar to how white people can roughly tell apart different ethnicities within each other...
We... we can?

Seriously, I'm asking. Because I wouldn't have a hope in hell of telling, say, a Polish person from an Irish person. Visually I mean, accents are another matter altogether.
 

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Jamcie Kerbizz said:
The only flimsy thing is your ability to address an argument without misrepresenting it. As per usual, you're wrong.
This is not politicized piss, this is pandering to asian market and I pointed out why it was failed attempt. The way this movie failed there speaks volumes itself. The fact you cowered away from adressing it just shows how credible you are in your arguments.
Do you believe merely the act of casting an Asian-American actress is in itself "pandering"? Because the film doesn't bring attention to it, or bring it up at all. All they did was cast her. Just casting is enough to be "pandering"?

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
I also pointed out how it could have been done in actually appealing way. That ofcourse if Disney producers weren't dumb enough to not check (for starters) that in that part of the world bigger fandom is around Empire... not Rebellion and that they like heros like Jakson's Windu, not Boyega's Finn... I'll skip on doing their research on beauty standards because pragmatism invokes in some people shriekingly absurd reactions.
"Shriekingly absurd reactions", eh? Your original tirade about "politicised piss" remains the biggest hyperbole in the thread so far, by the way.

Jamcie Kerbizz said:
Cringe politicised piss, were things like democracy dies in thunderous applause dropped in prequels (as of oh noes Bush taken away our freedom whinging). Rich get richer while poor kids and animals suffer nonsense dropped in rendition of f-ing porto cervo(authistic communist argument that wealth comes from opressing and abusing the weak and meek). Arms dealers sell weapons to both sides of a confflict presented as ground breaking revelation (painting Finn a retard).
You consider it a "communist argument" that arms dealers and the First Order oppress people? They're a warmongering, imperial force in a Space Opera. They're the bad guys. What did you want-- a sanitised vision of war?

This is ludicrous. It's akin to arguing that The Lord of the Rings is too "politicised" because Saruman consolidates his power through slavery and abuse. He's the bad guy.
 

4ged

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the way they redeem themselves is by having the third movie scrawl be a written apology to the long time fans of star wars, then as in all star wars films the big title says K.O.T.O.R. instead of star wars with a Big Studio Ghibli logo afterwards and we get the adventures of Darth Totally not Riven in beautifully animated glory, Then a post credit scene with a roguishly handsome silhouette with a blaster standing in a hanger then fading to a title "SHADOWS OF THE EMPIRE" "2019"
 

SoliterDan

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Smithnikov said:
Lord of the Rings, aka "White people are the saviors and inheritors of the Earth vs the evil negro and asian hordes and their demonic master." did well outside the US market, though...
...what?

IDK, why should they?
 

CaitSeith

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Casual Shinji said:
I'd rather all Star Wars go away. Even the original movies. I'm so sick of this song and dance. This fucking geek fan vommit that errupts every goddamn year.

Over 3 decades, and I'm still waiting they redeem for this! Any minute now...
 

Dudemaker

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I enjoyed it too.
I'd be lying if i said there were no ??! moments for me (Leia Poppins & the mystery of Snoke- oh wait nevermind he's dead)
but overall i liked the suggestion the story gave: that all that came before is not as important as what it's evolving into.
I'm undecided as to wether any of the "revelations" in the movie were real or wether JJ Abrams will pull the rug out again in the next movie, but either way i'm actually excited now to see where the story will end up in episode IX.
I know a lot of people had a problem with the jokey tone too but right from Poe "holding for general hux..." i loved the humour.
Canto bight...not so much, felt like time wasted on a lesson about war profiteering.
 

Cycloptomese

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I don't know about that. I thought TLJ was pretty sweet, myself. It was solid Saturday afternoon entertainment. It's probably my favorite Star Wars movie outside the original trilogy and I'm half tempted to throw it in with them, but I think I should probably give it a few more watches before making a move like that. I don't know what all the fuss is about.
 

Rangaman

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No seriously, what are you on about? The movie was good. Even if you don't love it as much as I do, most of what's been said by people who hate the movie[footnote]I refuse to use the term "haters"[/footnote] is hyperbole. And I'm still yet to see anyone give convincing reasons for said views.

It's also worth remembering that Empire Strikes Back provoked the exact same reaction as The Last Jedi. Hell, without Return of the Jedi to put everything into context, ESB is a pretty terrible movie. But RotJ exists, just the same as how Episode IX will exist. Making a middle chapter to a pre-planned movie trilogy is always hard because it doesn't really begin or end, it just continues the story. TLJ is no Empire, but it throws plenty of twists and turn into the over-arching narrative and sets the stage for JJ to do whatever he wants with the new kids on the block.
 

TheMysteriousGX

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Hawki said:
altnameJag said:
I mean, out of 10 principle characters you get 5 white dudes? White dudes don't make up half the population, so what the fuck's up?
Oh come on, you were doing so well up till now.

Thing is, I wouldn't have noticed any 'issues of diversity' until people brought it up, and even then I'm not seeing the issue. Skin colour doesn't matter in the Star Wars setting, and in this day and age, it shouldn't matter to us.
It was late and I forgot to put up a [/sarcasm] tag.