How do my fellow escapists feel about guns? (The real kind)

Wing Dairu

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Jul 21, 2010
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Personally, I feel guns are awesome, but need to be treated with respect.
They're beautiful pieces of precision engineering, but they have the capacity to critically wound and kill.
Always observe the rules of gun safety, kids.
 

pluizig

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Jan 11, 2010
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Sovvolf said:
You mention anything bad about guns and you'll always get the same reply "If citizens cans get guns... Only the criminals can get them". Which, having lived in a country with extremely tight gun laws all my life, sounds hilariously naive and paranoid. Sure you can get a gun off the black market if you chose... However its much harder to get hold of one and you won't see many random thugs carrying them.

Those criminals that do manage to get them illegally are mostly organised criminals who probably won't be wasting there time trying to rob your average man.
I came into the topic to say exactly this. I've lived in some pretty bad neighbourhoods, but thanks to our strict gun laws I've never even SEEN a real firearm that wasn't holstered in a policeman's belt.
 

Kingsnake661

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Koroviev said:
Riff Moonraker said:
Its our right to bear arms, thats how I feel about it. I own several rifles, shotguns, handguns, knives, bows, and other various weapons. I used to hunt often, and still believe that deer meat blows the doors off of steak anyday. I also think that any idiot out there that thinks gun control will keep the guns out of the criminals hands, needs to have their heads evaluated. Gun control only hurts the law abiding citizens.
This is simply not true. Reducing the number of guns among the civilian population does decrease the rate of death resulting from firearms. Believe it or not, a person who possesses a gun in his home is more likely to be harmed by that gun than he is by that of another. I'm not saying that such a generalization necessarily holds true for you, but the fact is that it does for others. Don't get me wrong: I don't advocate a complete ban on firearms. You seem like the type of responsible enthusiast who enjoys guns as a means of sport and security. However, I believe more extensive background checks are necessary in order to prevent people unlike you from purchasing firearms and related technology.
Extensive background cheaks make perfect since. The ones done now aren't good enough. They need improved. Also, IIRC, automatic fire arms are illegal. Extended magasines... i didn't even know about them till this last week. Seems reasonable to put limitations on them...

But what will any of that really solve? Will it save lives? *shrug* I still say a person bound and determained to kill people will. Laws or no. Making it harder to get a gun legally will not stop someone from getting it illegally. The supply would have be cut, and that, is a whole different story.

Being the pessimest that i am, i don't see a workable soluation really. So many guys exisit currently even with an out right ban, there'd still be millions around. And you'd have pissed so many millions of people off they'd prolly be more willing to use them. And so long as they are abbundend, there will always be a black market for them.

So what's the answer? (I honestly don't know)
 

Vryyk

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Sep 27, 2010
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I've lived in a lot of places in my life where I've been likely to be mugged, murdered, or kidnapped. Open-carry pistols make you a non-target, concealed carry gives you the ability to defend yourself. Rifles are great for hunting and could do for home defense in a punch (yes, homes do sometimes get broken into and robbed while the occupants are home. Thugs and gangsters do it for a "rush").

In one place I lived my neighbor was robbed at gunpoint, and after the robbery he was smashed across the skull with a beretta. Last time I got an e-mail from his family he is still experiencing complications and spending most of his income on treatments and surgery.

Most of the people saying guns are evil and should be banned live in nice, safe, white suburbs where they have never known how fucking terrifying it is to be woken by nearby gunfire, or be followed home by a gang trying to see if you have anything worth stealing on you.
 

DonMartin

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Apr 2, 2010
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Guns are for hunting and for the police. I was brought up in a home where I got acquainted with guns at an early age. I shot skeet before I could ride a bike. I fired handguns and revolvers when I was about 6-7. Im the typical child who got used to guns at a young age, and I can tell from reading some other posts here that there are others like me on this thread. Guns are to me, from an artistic standpoint, just like instruments. I can appreciate the beauty in a Winchester 1894 as much as a Fender Jazz '64.

However, we should not forget firearms are made for one purpose, and that is the destruction of life. Whether or not that life is a pidgeon, an elk or a human, guns are tools to kill other lifeforms with. I don't think guns are awesome. I don't think they are cool. They are guns. They are dangerous weapons. They should be treated with respect. They are nothing to collect or show off.

The only reason I own a gun is hunting. Hunting for food, mind you, and I think it is vital that every part of the pray is consumed somehow. Be that meat, hide or antlers.

So just to be clear, I hate what so many hunters have become, or what hunting has become lately. Killing animals for fun is just ridiculous. I can see the appeal in hunting elephants, kudus or wildebeests, but I wouldnt do it myself.

I believe gun control is necessary. I do not think that people in general need anything other than a rifle or/and a shotgun, and that's only if they hunt or compete in skeet shooting or the like. Handguns might be fun for target shooting, but the ownership of handguns should be limited for people who don't actually compete in shooting competitions. (mind you, they usually just own a number of '22s, at the most.) Automatic weapons should not be allowed to anyone but the police and the army.


Also, the gun craze that a bunch of people here seem to display just seems immature to me. "Guns are awesome." What? Why? They are guns. Designed to kill. There's nothing awesome about death.
 

blind_dead_mcjones

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Oct 16, 2010
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i like guns for the mechanics and engineeering that makes them work, you have to admit from that standpoint they are masterpieces, yes it is unfortunate that they were made from the get go to take life, but to me thats merely relfective of humanity's naturally violent nature

that said, firing a gun is quite the interesting experience its fun, but for me it was quite humbling at the same time, as i came to truely repsect how destructive they are

as for gun control, well, the port arthur massacre kinda speaks for itself as to why there needs to be regulation on firearms, before it australia was about as loose with its gun laws as the states

Koroviev said:
Mr Fixit said:
Guns should be respected, but not feared. No matter what laws are passed criminals will find a way to get guns, so taking them from everyone else would do nothing.
Australians would probably beg to differ.
indeed, in some cases it actucally makes tracking down criminals easier, case in point, about six months ago where was a guy here in adelaide holding up places, and one of the factors that led to his arrest and incarceration was the fact he had in his possession a SPAS-12 shotgun (very illegal here in australia) with the stock removed, and said shotgun was clearly identifiable on the CCTV footage of several of his heists (though in all fairness having one of the cars that was stolen during one of his robberies parked in his driveway probably didn't help matters much for him either)
 

Nocturnal Gentleman

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Mar 12, 2010
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Sovvolf said:
You mention anything bad about guns and you'll always get the same reply "If citizens cans get guns... Only the criminals can get them". Which, having lived in a country with extremely tight gun laws all my life, sounds hilariously naive and paranoid. Sure you can get a gun off the black market if you chose... However its much harder to get hold of one and you won't see many random thugs carrying them.

Those criminals that do manage to get them illegally are mostly organised criminals who probably won't be wasting there time trying to rob your average man.
It may sound kind of hilarious and I do agree the supposed common need is exaggerated. However, I do think our black market is way more accessible than yours. I've seen people commonly get things that you could never get away with in other countries. Things like illegal substances or pet tigers. A guy in my home state was busted for illegally obtaining pet elephants.

Also, many of our criminals usually are part of a larger organized group. They have networks extending from jails to inner cities to suburbs to out of the country. We have outside gangs that ship animals, weapons, and substances by submarines. Guys on illegal plantations and said submarines carrying anti aircraft weapons and other powerful weapons. Those gangs are crazy powerful and they don't play when average joe gets in the way.
 

metal mustache

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Oct 29, 2009
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TheFPSisDead said:
How do the rest of you feel about guns and regular law abiding citizens owning one or two?
*stares meaningfully into the sunrise as the flag waves behind him*

what a biased what question.

you do realize that your gun will never save your life? The criminal will always have the drop on you. If you don't want to get robbed, its more effective to install a security system in your house, and avoid carrying alot of money on you if you do get mugged. Its easier to run for it if the mugger doesn't have gun either.

I notice some people talking about how criminals would just get their guns from the black market, but the black market usually gets its guns by stealing them from the homes of gun owners anyway.
Hybridwolf said:
Had he not had a gun, he'd have found another method of killing his target. Charging with a knife/blade, hit and run and so on. So eitherway, the attempted killing would have happened, America would have decended into backbiting and insulting each other, and the tea party and Palin would have been blamed.
yes he might still have attempted to kill her, but he wouldn't have caused nearly as much damage with knife. The crowd of people would overwhelm him. As for the car, well, maybe if he got going fast enough, he might have killed more people actually... but thats not the point, the point is that its usually a hell of a lot harder to murder without a gun.

Edit: forgot my other point - Earth to paranoid conspiracy theorists, this is a democratic country! When the government tries to ban fire arms, its because most people in the country want them banned!
 

Lord Kloo

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Jun 7, 2010
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My ownership of guns consists solely of a collection of hand-drawn 'dragon head' pistols, other than some look good on paper and in games I disapprove of guns in all circumstances, except in suicide cases but I'm sure thats got to be an easier way..

Yeah anyway, I say no to guns, they only cause trouble..
The only time I will ever approve their use is in the hands of colonial marines battling aliens..
 

Christopher Bryer

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Jan 14, 2011
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all im going to say about this is if everyone had a gun on them, stuff like the "Columbine Incident" wouldetn have happened...just sayin'
 

Feildin

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Apr 17, 2009
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Sovvolf" post="18.257099.9653432 said:
That and well... I've yet to see a news report coming from America where a gun as really helped some one out or helped thwart a random mall shooter... There probably have been cases like this but I haven't seen many and it doesn't seem to happen often. Most people when they see shit like this happen, cower in fear. Though if it makes people sleep safer at night then I won't stop you.

Sadly Sovvolf, the media never does show examples of responsible human beings using a firearm to defend themselves or others. The simple fact is it doesn't create the publicity that crime does. If you want to see some examples go to http://thearmedcitizen.com/ which has many.

To Nocturnal Gentleman, I agree with you nothing pisses me off when I am an the woods or when I talk with other hunters than someone not getting a clean kill or letting a wounded animal go. This means I also get pissed at myself if I don't make a clean kill no matter what the reason. One bullet or one arrow is enough, if its not well then you shouldn't have taken the shot.
 

Atmos Duality

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What has been invented, cannot be uninvented.
Gun Control will never be effective, simply because any criminal who really wants a firearm can still acquire them on the black/private market.

This is true of every country on the planet. In some 3rd world countries, it's arguably easier to acquire firearms than fresh water.

Actually, this wouldn't be a problem if the nature of firearms weren't explicitly to cause harm or kill others. No matter how much one can argue to the contrary, a firearm is always a weapon.

My stance? Well, if we can assume it's statistically impossible to keep firearms out of the hands of criminals, then it makes even less sense to keep them out of the hands of sensible people too.
There will always be nut-jobs, and that's an unfortunate reality that has no real solution, but unless society cuts off production at the source for everyone [sub](which can never happen, due to industrial pressures and the fact that, hypothetically, anyone who had access to the last guns would have genuine leverage over those who don't)[/sub] we can not be rid of firearms.

That's my opinion.
 

Sovvolf

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Nocturnal Gentleman said:
It may sound kind of hilarious and I do agree the supposed common need is exaggerated. However, I do think our black market is way more accessible than yours.
I don't deny that, nor do I deny the need of them in America. At this point I think that America is too deep in with the gun culture to make reversing it an easy task... Maybe over time it could be reversed or calmed down however it would probably take decades.

However it could be a lot easier over in America for criminals to get a hold of guns. I don't deny that however my annoyance isn't when the user is referring to America. Its mostly when they are referring to other Countries. Like Briton for example.
Nocturnal Gentleman said:
Those gangs are crazy powerful and they don't play when average joe gets in the way.
Then its a good idea not to get in the way. Let the police handle it. The last thing we need is a fellow running around trying to be a hero. He'll not only be a danger to him self but a danger to others.
 

Crystal Cuckoo

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Jan 6, 2009
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I love it when people say "guns are tools" but then fail to say what they are tools for.

Because we both know what it's designed for: to kill.

It's not like a knife, or a lighter, which serve purposes other than to harm. A gun is only used to kill. You could argue that it's used for target practice, but that only further enables you to be a killing machine.

But, you say, what about archery? That's only used for target practice and for hunting. But a bow isn't as easily concealed as a handgun. A bow is massive, and frankly impractical to shoot something compared to a gun. When was the last time someone ran into a school and bow-and-arrowed everyone to death?

So yeah, I'm not exactly pro-gun. Though apparently almost every citizen in Sweden owns a gun as part of their service in the military (and no gun-related deaths are reported there), so maybe it's a matter of educating people before handing them death materialised.
 

Capslockbroken

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Oct 25, 2010
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Azrael the Cat said:
Simple question. I live in Australia, where our murder rate (per person) is about one 90th (around 0.11) of the US rate. Most of the first world also has a murder rate around the same as Australia. Americans (as in US - Canada has about the same rate as Australia) kill each other at a rate that the rest of world find unimaginable.

So why is that the case? The fact that we don't have guns, and it is nigh impossible for a criminal to get his hands on a gun here (obviously gun controls won't work if you can just drive to the next state and buy one there - they work in Australia because they apply federally)? Or is the US just culturally barbaric?

Personally, I'd go with 'the guns'. If you prefer 'the US is culturally inferior' as an explanation, then be my guest...
Ok, I'm calling this one out. You are either lying about being Australian or you are shockingly ignorant about your own country. "We don't have guns", indeed. The reality is that Australia had, generally speaking, more relaxed gun laws than the US until the mid- nineties. That was when a single high-profile murder case gave the reactionaries in government an excuse for massive increases in gun control. You want to know what happened to the violent crime rate after that? It skyrocketed, reversing a 15 year downward trend.
The reason is simple. Violent criminals target people who are obviously weaker than themselves. In a community where guns are common, identifying easy targets is nearly impossible because potential targets and bystanders may be armed. Legal guns prevent violence because violent criminals don't want to get shot. You don't have to take my word for it. Here's an article with some hard numbers. I concede that the article's author is on my side but, unless you want to dispute his facts, that shouldn't matter. I couldn't find an article written from the opposing side which included any hard numbers...wonder why..

http://www.nraila.org/issues/factsheets/read.aspx?id=30&issue=015



As always, unsupported claims and childish slander is a pretty poor substitute for hard data and, no matter what your professor may have told you, saying hateful things about the US actually doesn't make you look smart.
 

SadakoMoose

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Jun 10, 2009
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Ok so, my stance on firearms comes from logic.
The reason that America's crime rate is where it is has way more to do with a faltering economy, a scary lack of social welfare programs, a failing educational system, and the escalation of gang violence caused b the prohibition of narcotics. Not gun ownership. That's not to say that I don't disagree with lax regulations on private sellers, but I do think that there is a way to both allow people to own guns and keep crime low.
Ending the war on drugs would help, since it would eliminate the massive narcotics black market and bring a standstill to most gang activity. Bring jobs to the inner city and other impoverished parts of the country. Provide a better education and equal opportunities for everyone. You can't just try to ban guns and done with it.
Guns are just tools, and like with any other kind of tool, we need to keep them in the right hands. I think that with proper licensing procedures and laws regarding the sale of firearms, imposed nationally of course, that we could keep guns out of the hands of dangerous people more often than not. They're just chunks of crafted metals and gunpowder. They don't kill people on their own, that'd be just silly.
 

metal mustache

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Oct 29, 2009
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Riff Moonraker said:
Its our right to bear arms, thats how I feel about it. I own several rifles, shotguns, handguns, knives, bows, and other various weapons. I used to hunt often, and still believe that deer meat blows the doors off of steak anyday. I also think that any idiot out there that thinks gun control will keep the guns out of the criminals hands, needs to have their heads evaluated. Gun control only hurts the law abiding citizens.
you do realize that countries with gun laws statistically have far lower crime and murder rates then others? I don't think its my head that requires evalution.
 

Koroviev

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Oct 3, 2010
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Kingsnake661 said:
Extensive background cheaks make perfect since. The ones done now aren't good enough. They need improved. Also, IIRC, automatic fire arms are illegal. Extended magasines... i didn't even know about them till this last week. Seems reasonable to put limitations on them...

But what will any of that really solve? Will it save lives? *shrug* I still say a person bound and determained to kill people will. Laws or no. Making it harder to get a gun legally will not stop someone from getting it illegally. The supply would have be cut, and that, is a whole different story.

Being the pessimest that i am, i don't see a workable soluation really. So many guys exisit currently even with an out right ban, there'd still be millions around. And you'd have pissed so many millions of people off they'd prolly be more willing to use them. And so long as they are abbundend, there will always be a black market for them.

So what's the answer? (I honestly don't know)
The fact is that Jared Loughner didn't have to go underground to acquire any of the weaponry he used to execute the tragedy in Tuscon. He was able to purchase everything legally, despite his history of run-ins with the police and noted mental issues. Will regulation eliminate gun-related crime entirely? No, of course not. However, I think that the more obstacles we have in place, the less likely it is that an unstable person will be able or willing to act on his disturbed thoughts. In other words, if we raise the cost in terms of time and effort, would-be criminals may reevaluate the net benefit of harming others.