How do you argue with drunk logic?

[TehCookie]

I'm pretty sure we all can agree arguing with drunks is pointless waste of time and you can never win. My problem is the person I keep fighting with isn't drunk but uses the same illogical arguments. And lives in my house.

If you want the back story, pretty much my brother is a failure who can't live on his own because he needs someone to baby him. He's 22 dropped out of college 4 times, isn't able to hold a job and likes to get shitfaced and use to do hardcore drugs. He's also a slob that destroys anyplace he lives. He moved back home and is getting progressively more annoying. If my family kicks him out he tries to kill himself (and I don't mean on the street, I mean they bought him an apartment and forced him in a dorm).

Now he is doing better. After a run in with the law he's gotten off drugs. He has a job that my parent have to wake him up for and tell him to go. He takes his meds as long as my mom leaves out his dosage with a note (otherwise he'll take them all at once to get high). He also signed up for classes, but never went and failed every one. Then he brags about how he's a responsible adult when instead of paying back the loans he has, he buys videogames and booze. If you tell him a responsible adult gets up on his own, he throws a fit saying that's to hard or that he did it once.

How do you tell a 22 year old he's not allowed to eat in his room because he doesn't bring down his dishes, cooks to much and leaves it to mold which smells awful, and he keeps spilling shit on the stairs. I've asked him nicely but he runs on drunk logic and goes "I'm an adult you can't tell me what to do." to the point my parents gave up trying to argue with him because it is exactly like arguing wit a drunk. Even if you point out exactly why he'll just come up with excuses, "I was drunk when I wiped that mustard on the wall." That doesn't make it okay, but he doesn't realize that and I can't figure out how to make him.

If you think I should move out, I don't have the money and go to college full time. My parents blew all their money on him.

 

[Ziadaine_v1legacy]

As cruel as it is, show him the harsh face of life and to stop being such a fucking leech. If he can't be responsible, kick his arse out. People who use the threats of "I'll kill myself" like that, wont. they use it as a defence mechanism to make people feel sorry for them and he might be your brother, but to me sounds like a fuckhead. I would never let anyone live with me if they cant make an effort to keep the place clean (INCLUDING their own room), pull their weight and do something. (and not sit at home drinking and popping pills)

 

[As Seen On 360]

It's been covered rather well already, but the overall point is to make his life uncomfortable in numerous ways. The only reason he thinks he can get away with things is because he can. Any way you can find to make his living arrangement more uncomfortable than he's used to helps. He wants to stay home because it's a lazy and care-free existence, when that's no longer true he'll see that being on his own would suit him better.

Sadly the only way you can really manage it is to get your parents in on it, and slowly deprive him of what he feels is essential to his lifestyle. Alcohol, snack foods, money for games; when he systematically loses his comforts and support system it's more effective than telling him to leave. If he comes to the decision based on the way you and your parents are encroaching on his lifestyle, he'll not only leave but stay away.

As you said, drunk logic is impossible to trump, but you can always take away the booze and watch him squirm until it's too much to handle.

 

[BrassButtons]

Actions have consequences. Sounds like so far he hasn't had to deal with them. That should change. He doesn't wake up on his own to go to work? Then I guess he's going to miss work and get fired. He loses his job and so doesn't have any money? Well then he can't buy food, booze, drugs, gas for the car, car insurance, or anything else (and your parents should make him pay for all of that, effective immediately).

Unfortunately that would all have to be done by your parents. I'd suggest talking to them about it. So long as they keep letting him get away with that behavior, he isn't going to change. Without your parents' help there's not a lot you can do.

 

[Giftfromme]

Start playing pranks on him. I got a annoying roommate to move out after he was pulling this crap. Nothing real serious, but enough to tick him off. When he calls you out on it, just look at him with a face of confusion. Or better yet, just scream at him that your an adult ans walk off. Most people don't like dealing with their own character flaws.

LOL I imagine that funny pranks when thinking about this. And then saying "NO I'M AN ADULT YOU CANNOT TELL ME WHAT TO DO" back at him seems immensely comical. I deffinetely suggest at least partially incorparating this into your plan to get him out.

 

[Phasmal]

Some people are just permanent children, the best thing to do is just ignore them and get on with your own life.
It's probably better if you just accept your parents will probably always be running around after him and try and become independant on your own. You could try and talk to your parents about him, but he's their kid and they are unlikely to change.

 

[weirdsoup]

Your parents are as much to blame for this as he is. By helping him, they're not helping.
It sounds like his run in with the law hasn't really done anything to change him other than to be a bit more cautious about what he does and where he gets stuff.

The best advice I could give you is not to rise to any baiting. When he goes off on one, don't rise to it. Treat him as you would treat a child throwing a tantrum and ignore him.

 

[Svenparty]

He sounds like a complete parasite as a result of his problems, He won't learn until you do kick him out for real. He's using suicide to try and milk his hedonistic albeit pathetic existence to the brink.

Get a Psychologist, Get him out, He'll grow up and develop past the age of 5.

 

[Insanum]

To be perfectly honest he sounds mentally disturbed. If he's been doing hardcore drugs i'd strongly recommend a psychiatric assessment.

 

[TehCookie]

Thanks for the advice everyone but I will clear up a few things. He doesn't threaten suicide if my family kicks him out, after being on his own he realizes he's a failure and tries to kill himself because life is too hard.

He is mentally disturbed, and only liked one psychologist that blamed all his trouble on my parents. He won't visit any that mention it was his stupid choices that made shit happen and he doesn't take his pills and then takes them all at once. My mom sets them out now, but they still haven't found the perfect prescription to make him stable and he won't say if they work or not (and takes several other over the counter drugs on top of it which really fucks up some effects, and he won't stop).

My parents should do something about it but he stresses them out so they don't want to deal with him any more than is necessary. He still uses his drunk logic on them too.

The latest argument: "I'm not going to let you borrow my shit because you don't take care of the things you own and I don't want it broken."
Him: "That was in the past you won't know I will break it unless you let me borrow it."
Me: "What makes you think this will be any different? You don't respect your own things!"
Him: "That's because they're mine, but I'll respect yours."

Then he gets pissed if I keep telling him no (and I do). A lot of things go like that, he wants trust but hasn't shown anything to make him trustworthy. If you do trust him you get screwed and if you tell him that's why he just says "It's in the past."