How do you feel about remembrance day?

El Poncho

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May 21, 2009
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Zhukov said:
El Poncho said:
Zhukov said:
Exactly. You feel no connection to that event. You do not care because those people did not die for you.

That is how I feel about the events that you commemorate.
The difference is that they didn't die for me and the soldiers you feel no connection to you did die for you. Whether you feel it or not.
Did they really?

Consider the following.

I am Australian. Australian soldiers have been involved in the Boer War, WWI, WWII, the Korean War, the Malayan Emergency, the Vietnam War, the Gulf War, the war in Iraq and the war in Afghanistan. Plus a few UN peacekeeping operations and regional assistance missions. Not one of these conflicts involved a direct threat to Australia. (The one possible exception was the Japanese in WWII, but we have since learned that they had no intention of invading us.) Australia became involved in every single one of these conflicts at the behest of other nations. Furthermore, our contributions to these conflicts were negligible in scale and of no real consequence.

In short, the "freedom of my country" was never under threat. And if it was, the actions of Australian soldiers were neither necessary nor relevant in securing said freedom.

So... how exactly did they die for me?
Fair enough, I probably should have checked your country.
 

Akai Shizuku

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ffian1 said:
Akai Shizuku said:
I oppose Remembrance Day, as it is a day for remembering the soldiers who killed and were killed in the name of narrow nationalism and corporate interest. Fuck that shit.

Also, the whole "they died for our freedom" bit is a load of right-wing propaganda.

1) What freedom?
2) Suppose your country got its ass kicked in WW1 and lost out on its imperialist gains, and murdered less indigenous peoples to take over their land and resources than Austria or something. Or suppose the Nazis kicked your country's ass in WW2 and the Soviet Union plowed through them anyway just as they already would have (considering that the USSR was the main force against the Nazis, did most of the fighting, and ultimately were the ones who not only defeated Nazi forces but plowed right through Berlin and put the Soviet flag up on the Reichstag while most other countries fighting the Nazis [INCLUDING YOUR RED WHITE AND BLUE] were little more than a distraction and were considered insignificant by them). What then?

This video made by a friend of mine further explains the position I have on this, particularly current wars.


tl;dr
Remembrance Day is a load of nationalistic propaganda.
You, friend, are a man after my own heart.

War, to me at least, seems to be an extension of evolutionary primal tactics to control more assets e.g. food, women to breed with (evolutionarily speaking) etc. If you consider the amount of assets poured into the notion of war (including self-defense, invasion, time, troops and R&D), does that really outweigh the total cost? If the assets were used for something else beneficial for all - I bet we could feed and clothe the world many, many times over.

The only good thing to come from war in general is the R&D, allowing for some incredible advances in machinery and computation - but again, if assets were used to fund this sort of thing more often anyway then you completely eliminate the whole notion of war.

Personally, I don't support Remembrance Day. If anyone cares enough to remember them, they should do it every day to be thankful. The idea of relegating the supposed importance of remembrance to a single day devalues everything about it anyway.
Mostly agreed except for your first and last points. As for your first point, I don't think it has anything to do with evolution; what it has to do with is economics. The big corporations which influence the government benefit from war because the government buys their equipment for the war. So, yes, capitalism is a driving force behind war because of the profit motive. That isn't all of it, though - there is also imperialism; that is, A first world country turning a third world country into what it is through raping of their land and resources militarily (as the U.$. is doing in Haiti, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.) or through corporate exploitation (sweat shops, etc. in countries like the Philippines, China and Malaysia where eight-year-old kids make your clothes and pretty much everything else you own while working 24-hour shifts and getting paid peanuts - but according to capitalist-supporters, that's they're fault, right?). Usually the former happens first and evolves into the latter.

Essentially, you do away with capitalism, you do away with a lot of war.

For your last point, whether or not the soldiers deserve to be remembered depends on who they were fighting and what they were fighting for. As Mao Zedong said, "To die for the people is weightier than Mount Tai, but to work for the fascists and die for the exploiters and oppressors is lighter than a feather."

Mao said it better than I could. Sauce is <url=http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-3/mswv3_19.htm>here.
 

EscapeGoat_v1legacy

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I wear a poppy with pride, and I wear one every day. My remembrance does extend past one day, but for many, that one day is enough, and they do remember the fallen, which is always commendable. I wear it to honour those who fell for God, for the crown and for their country. Ever since I returned from a visit to the First World War graves in Belgium, and walked across the battlefields of France, I have felt the need to give the utmost respect to every man and women who has died protecting ideals like freedom, and in turn give that respect to the fighting men and women who do something that I could not.

To see you say you're apathetic towards the dead fills me with a cold feeling. Its a shame for you to think that the soldiers who have died, and the soldiers still out there didn't fight for you, or get injured for you or died for you, and for all people who value the same ideals that they fought and died for.

However, in the end, nothing I say will change your mind. Perhaps you need to visit a memorial or a monument, or take a trip to France or Belgium, or anywhere soldiers have fought since the First World War. I'm not a fan of war, but I do remember, and I do pay my respects.

They shall grow not old, as we that are left grow old:
Age shall not weary them, nor the years condemn.
At the going down of the sun and in the morning
We will remember them.
NekoiHiokans said:
Just wanted to say, that video was incredible. Really powerful, and really poignant. I may be British, but that resonates as much with me and our own soldiers as it does with America and her soldiers. Thank you for posting that.
 

Darkstar370

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Akai Shizuku said:
Essentially, you do away with capitalism, you do away with a lot of war.

For your last point, whether or not the soldiers deserve to be remembered depends on who they were fighting and what they were fighting for. As Mao Zedong said, "To die for the people is weightier than Mount Tai, but to work for the fascists and die for the exploiters and oppressors is lighter than a feather."
I hope you do realize that Mao is believed to have caused the deaths of between 40 to 70 million people.
 

Akai Shizuku

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Darkstar370 said:
Akai Shizuku said:
Essentially, you do away with capitalism, you do away with a lot of war.

For your last point, whether or not the soldiers deserve to be remembered depends on who they were fighting and what they were fighting for. As Mao Zedong said, "To die for the people is weightier than Mount Tai, but to work for the fascists and die for the exploiters and oppressors is lighter than a feather."
I hope you do realize that Mao is believed to have caused the deaths of between 40 to 70 million people.
I hope you do realize (as anyone with half a brain should) that those numbers simply do not add up.


Forward to 2:39 for the Mao part. Also this:

 

Darkstar370

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Akai Shizuku said:
Darkstar370 said:
Akai Shizuku said:
Essentially, you do away with capitalism, you do away with a lot of war.

For your last point, whether or not the soldiers deserve to be remembered depends on who they were fighting and what they were fighting for. As Mao Zedong said, "To die for the people is weightier than Mount Tai, but to work for the fascists and die for the exploiters and oppressors is lighter than a feather."
I hope you do realize that Mao is believed to have caused the deaths of between 40 to 70 million people.
I hope you do realize (as anyone with half a brain should) that those numbers simply do not add up.

-snip-

Forward to 2:39 for the Mao part. Also this:
-snip-
I like how the comments were disabled on the first video that you posted.

Typical communists. They always censor those who disagree with them.

I'm thankful for the brave people that fought against communism.
My country was liberated in 1989 from their tyranny. I know more about them than you.
 

Zykon TheLich

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I don't wear a poppy but I do give the poppy sellers some money. Fighting in the 1st and 2nd world wars must have been a full on bag of shit and I feel for anyone who's had to go through that. I was watching an interview with Harry Patch (R.I.P) a couple of years ago he still broke doen in tears describing how his mates got blown up by an artillery shell. Regardless of all the political issues the soldiers were all individuals that for the most psrt went through a load of horrible crap that I never want to experience.
 

Akai Shizuku

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Darkstar370 said:
Akai Shizuku said:
Darkstar370 said:
Akai Shizuku said:
Essentially, you do away with capitalism, you do away with a lot of war.

For your last point, whether or not the soldiers deserve to be remembered depends on who they were fighting and what they were fighting for. As Mao Zedong said, "To die for the people is weightier than Mount Tai, but to work for the fascists and die for the exploiters and oppressors is lighter than a feather."
I hope you do realize that Mao is believed to have caused the deaths of between 40 to 70 million people.
I hope you do realize (as anyone with half a brain should) that those numbers simply do not add up.

-snip-

Forward to 2:39 for the Mao part. Also this:
-snip-
I like how the comments were disabled on the first video that you posted.

Typical communists. They always censor those who disagree with them.
Censorship is blocking comments that disagree with the video and allowing others to stay up. The guy who made the first video just didn't want shit to deal with, since every YouTube video about anything political is going to have loads of bullshit troll comments.

Darkstar370 said:
I'm thankful for the brave people that fought against communism.
My country was liberated in 1989 from their tyranny. I know more about them than you.
LOL

The Soviet Union wasn't socialist ever since Stalin died. First it fell into revisionism, and then it was social-imperialist; essentially, it took over other countries much like the U.$. did and used those countries' people and resources to fuel their empire. That's actually a very anti-communist way to go about things, and if you knew a thing about communist ideology you'd know that.
 

ffian1

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Akai Shizuku said:
Mostly agreed except for your first and last points. As for your first point, I don't think it has anything to do with evolution; what it has to do with is economics. The big corporations which influence the government benefit from war because the government buys their equipment for the war. So, yes, capitalism is a driving force behind war because of the profit motive. That isn't all of it, though - there is also imperialism; that is, A first world country turning a third world country into what it is through raping of their land and resources militarily (as the U.$. is doing in Haiti, Afghanistan, Iraq, etc.) or through corporate exploitation (sweat shops, etc. in countries like the Philippines, China and Malaysia where eight-year-old kids make your clothes and pretty much everything else you own while working 24-hour shifts and getting paid peanuts - but according to capitalist-supporters, that's they're fault, right?). Usually the former happens first and evolves into the latter.

Essentially, you do away with capitalism, you do away with a lot of war.

For your last point, whether or not the soldiers deserve to be remembered depends on who they were fighting and what they were fighting for. As Mao Zedong said, "To die for the people is weightier than Mount Tai, but to work for the fascists and die for the exploiters and oppressors is lighter than a feather."

Mao said it better than I could. Sauce is <url=http://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/mao/selected-works/volume-3/mswv3_19.htm>here.
With regards to my last point, I didn't necessarily mean soldiers, but anything potentially worth remembering. There are several things that I hold personally dear, and show that by devoting a few moments throughout the day to remembering them. If I reduced that to naming a day after them, and thinking about them for a minute in the morning of that day, I'd feel it would cheapen the whole process. Regardless of whether it's right or wrong to remember the soldiers, it still offends me that people are so upset when I disagree with their process of remembrance.

And to the first point, I feel that capitalism is essentially a name given to the acquisition of assets - really just a modern interpretation of instinctual behaviour. This, as you rightly pointed out, has been tainted by a corporate element.

As far as I can tell, evolving mentally (i.e. being responsible for our own behaviours) should become something of a priority for all humanity. If we can grow out of our need to acquire things to set us in a situation of higher community status than another, we can all get busy with the things in life that are really important.
 

Darkstar370

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Akai Shizuku said:
Darkstar370 said:
Typical communists. They always censor those who disagree with them.
Censorship is blocking comments that disagree with the video and allowing others to stay up. The guy who made the first video just didn't want shit to deal with, since every YouTube video about anything political is going to have loads of bullshit troll comments.
Typical weak excuses. The guy believes that people who disagree with him = trolls

Akai Shizuku said:
Darkstar370 said:
I'm thankful for the brave people that fought against communism.
My country was liberated in 1989 from their tyranny. I know more about them than you.
LOL

The Soviet Union wasn't socialist ever since Stalin died. First it fell into revisionism, and then it was social-imperialist; essentially, it took over other countries much like the U.$. did and used those countries' people and resources to fuel their empire. That's actually a very anti-communist way to go about things, and if you knew a thing about communist ideology you'd know that.
LOL

You know even less than I thought. Stalin was a psychopathic mass murderer. And so was Lenin. Communism never worked in any country.
 

Akai Shizuku

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Jul 24, 2009
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Darkstar370 said:
Akai Shizuku said:
Darkstar370 said:
Typical communists. They always censor those who disagree with them.
Censorship is blocking comments that disagree with the video and allowing others to stay up. The guy who made the first video just didn't want shit to deal with, since every YouTube video about anything political is going to have loads of bullshit troll comments.
Typical weak excuses. The guy believes that people who disagree with him = trolls

Akai Shizuku said:
Darkstar370 said:
I'm thankful for the brave people that fought against communism.
My country was liberated in 1989 from their tyranny. I know more about them than you.
LOL

The Soviet Union wasn't socialist ever since Stalin died. First it fell into revisionism, and then it was social-imperialist; essentially, it took over other countries much like the U.$. did and used those countries' people and resources to fuel their empire. That's actually a very anti-communist way to go about things, and if you knew a thing about communist ideology you'd know that.
LOL

You know even less than I thought. Stalin was a psychopathic mass murderer. And so was Lenin. Communism never worked in any country.
A lot of that "Stalin was a mass murderer" stuff comes from propaganda first put forth by the Nazis and later by Amerika. I've already posted videos which show why the whole "Stalin was a killer" argument is incorrect. As for communist ideology never working everywhere, it actually worked pretty well in the Soviet Union and China. It's also the only reason why Cuba hasn't collapsed under the U.$. embargo.

Since you seem to be focused on the Soviet Union and your hatred towards it, I'll just provide a little picture.

http://media.eyeblast.org/newsbusters/static/2009/10/NewsweekRussia-full-2009-10-12.jpg
 

Darkstar370

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Akai Shizuku said:
Darkstar370 said:
Akai Shizuku said:
Darkstar370 said:
Typical communists. They always censor those who disagree with them.
Censorship is blocking comments that disagree with the video and allowing others to stay up. The guy who made the first video just didn't want shit to deal with, since every YouTube video about anything political is going to have loads of bullshit troll comments.
Typical weak excuses. The guy believes that people who disagree with him = trolls

Akai Shizuku said:
Darkstar370 said:
I'm thankful for the brave people that fought against communism.
My country was liberated in 1989 from their tyranny. I know more about them than you.
LOL

The Soviet Union wasn't socialist ever since Stalin died. First it fell into revisionism, and then it was social-imperialist; essentially, it took over other countries much like the U.$. did and used those countries' people and resources to fuel their empire. That's actually a very anti-communist way to go about things, and if you knew a thing about communist ideology you'd know that.
LOL

You know even less than I thought. Stalin was a psychopathic mass murderer. And so was Lenin. Communism never worked in any country.
A lot of that "Stalin was a mass murderer" stuff comes from propaganda first put forth by the Nazis and later by Amerika. I've already posted videos which show why the whole "Stalin was a killer" argument is incorrect. As for communist ideology never working everywhere, it actually worked pretty well in the Soviet Union and China. It's also the only reason why Cuba hasn't collapsed under the U.$. embargo.
A lot of that "Stalin wasn't a mass murderer" stuff comes from propaganda first put forth by the communists and later by ignorant people like in the video that you posted.

Stalin murdered and schemed his way to the leadership of the Soviet Union, an entity that he helped to establish with the other leading Bolsheviks.

Stalin was responsible for the purges and power consolidations that left the USSR militarily weakened when Nazi Germany invaded on June 22, 1941. Fortunately "General Winter" stepped in to save his butt. Prior to World War II, Stalin had many of his best generals and spies shot. Stalin was deeply paranoid and more concerned about the Red Army's loyalty to him alone than their effectiveness as a professional military force. Unfortunately, he did not apply the same distrust to Hitler, his ally from 1939-41: while he did realize that Europe wasn't big enough for two bloodthirsty megalomaniacs, he ignored several warnings about an impending German invasion, thinking he still had more time before the inevitable showdown. As with Hitler, Stalin's personal involvement in military decisions proved disastrous. Many Soviet armies, totaling several million men, were surrounded and destroyed at the outset of the war because they were forbidden from retreating. However, unlike Hitler, Stalin learned to trust his generals as time went by and granted them more leeway. Between the Russian winter, Russian mud, Hitler's incompetence, and the fact that Russians were bull-headed enough to do anything, the USSR managed to survive and beat back Hitler's armies. (Stalin had all of the POWs the Germans had taken shot or sent them to Siberia as spies.)

Stalinism, Uncle Joe's legacy to the world, is a ruthless approach to communism that relies heavily on an all-powerful supreme leader aided by a large body of secret police who "encourage" neighbor to inform on neighbor, purges of any potential adversary to the supreme leader (with emphasis on the comrades who helped him achieve his position in the first place), the imprisonment and murder of intellectuals (liberals), and the occasional mass murder of entire portions of the population. Stalinism also covers the particular approach to economic development which Stalin pursued during his rule. It relies on complete state control and central planning of all economic activity and tries to achieve rapid development of the nation's heavy industry. The Soviet Union did indeed see rapid industrial growth under the first five-year-plans, but this came at a heavy price: the necessary capital had to be somehow squeezed out of an agrarian society, adding to the misery of Soviet peasants. Forced collectivization and resistance to it resulted in millions of deaths and a huge drop in Soviet agricultural production, which in turn led to the famines of the 1930s.
 

Akai Shizuku

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Darkstar370 said:
Akai Shizuku said:
Darkstar370 said:
Akai Shizuku said:
Darkstar370 said:
Typical communists. They always censor those who disagree with them.
Censorship is blocking comments that disagree with the video and allowing others to stay up. The guy who made the first video just didn't want shit to deal with, since every YouTube video about anything political is going to have loads of bullshit troll comments.
Typical weak excuses. The guy believes that people who disagree with him = trolls

Akai Shizuku said:
Darkstar370 said:
I'm thankful for the brave people that fought against communism.
My country was liberated in 1989 from their tyranny. I know more about them than you.
LOL

The Soviet Union wasn't socialist ever since Stalin died. First it fell into revisionism, and then it was social-imperialist; essentially, it took over other countries much like the U.$. did and used those countries' people and resources to fuel their empire. That's actually a very anti-communist way to go about things, and if you knew a thing about communist ideology you'd know that.
LOL

You know even less than I thought. Stalin was a psychopathic mass murderer. And so was Lenin. Communism never worked in any country.
A lot of that "Stalin was a mass murderer" stuff comes from propaganda first put forth by the Nazis and later by Amerika. I've already posted videos which show why the whole "Stalin was a killer" argument is incorrect. As for communist ideology never working everywhere, it actually worked pretty well in the Soviet Union and China. It's also the only reason why Cuba hasn't collapsed under the U.$. embargo.
A lot of that "Stalin wasn't a mass murderer" stuff comes from propaganda first put forth by the communists and later by ignorant people like in the video that you posted.

Stalin murdered and schemed his way to the leadership of the Soviet Union, an entity that he helped to establish with the other leading Bolsheviks.

Stalin was responsible for the purges and power consolidations that left the USSR militarily weakened when Nazi Germany invaded on June 22, 1941. Fortunately "General Winter" stepped in to save his butt. Prior to World War II, Stalin had many of his best generals and spies shot. Stalin was deeply paranoid and more concerned about the Red Army's loyalty to him alone than their effectiveness as a professional military force. Unfortunately, he did not apply the same distrust to Hitler, his ally from 1939-41: while he did realize that Europe wasn't big enough for two bloodthirsty megalomaniacs, he ignored several warnings about an impending German invasion, thinking he still had more time before the inevitable showdown. As with Hitler, Stalin's personal involvement in military decisions proved disastrous. Many Soviet armies, totaling several million men, were surrounded and destroyed at the outset of the war because they were forbidden from retreating. However, unlike Hitler, Stalin learned to trust his generals as time went by and granted them more leeway. Between the Russian winter, Russian mud, Hitler's incompetence, and the fact that Russians were bull-headed enough to do anything, the USSR managed to survive and beat back Hitler's armies. (Stalin had all of the POWs the Germans had taken shot or sent them to Siberia as spies.)

Stalinism, Uncle Joe's legacy to the world, is a ruthless approach to communism that relies heavily on an all-powerful supreme leader aided by a large body of secret police who "encourage" neighbor to inform on neighbor, purges of any potential adversary to the supreme leader (with emphasis on the comrades who helped him achieve his position in the first place), the imprisonment and murder of intellectuals (liberals), and the occasional mass murder of entire portions of the population. Stalinism also covers the particular approach to economic development which Stalin pursued during his rule. It relies on complete state control and central planning of all economic activity and tries to achieve rapid development of the nation's heavy industry. The Soviet Union did indeed see rapid industrial growth under the first five-year-plans, but this came at a heavy price: the necessary capital had to be somehow squeezed out of an agrarian society, adding to the misery of Soviet peasants. Forced collectivization and resistance to it resulted in millions of deaths and a huge drop in Soviet agricultural production, which in turn led to the famines of the 1930s.
Almost everything you said here has already been refuted in the videos I posted in previous posts within this thread. I'll post one more.


This will be my last post within this thread, because quite frankly I'm tired of arguing with people who don't know what they're talking about. Stalin was a hero whose collectivization ended the Ukraine famine, turned a 3rd world shithole into a world superpower to rival the imperialist United $nakes, and led the Red Army to destroy the Nazis.
 

Darkstar370

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Akai Shizuku said:
Almost everything you said here has already been refuted in the videos I posted in previous posts within this thread. I'll post one more.

-snip-
Almost everything posted here by you has already been revealed as lousy communist propaganda from people who censor youtube comments.

Akai Shizuku said:
This will be my last post within this thread, because quite frankly I'm tired of arguing with people who don't know what they're talking about.
Why are all communists such cowards when they are confronted with the truth?
 

ilspooner

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I like to respect the people who never made it back home after those horrible years. No matter who they fought for, they made the same sacrifice.
 

Phaerim

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Well to simplify, it's because of the attitude of people like HotFezz8, that I don't revere military holidays. I can't be asked to revere people who can't face critiscism, and I am glad that the moderators reacted as they did.