How do you feel about the politics of Luke Cage?

[Dirty Hipsters]

So having finished Luke Cage on netflix, I really have to say that I have no idea what the political message of the show was.

I mean, it clearly had one, there was a whole monologue in the last episode slapping you with it, but I felt like the writers actually couldn't figure out what they wanted to say.

The whole show is about the relationship between police and African Americans as well as black on black violence, and how a corrupt system makes it difficult to get justice. The problem is that these themes never come together in a way that makes sense.

There is a scene in the show with a rally taking place inside the Harlem's Paradise nightclub after a police officer illegally beats a young black student that was in custody. During this scene Mariah, the counsel-woman, proceeds to give a speech about police misconduct, and how the people of Harlem have to join together to stop it. Then in the next sentence she starts talking about how Luke Cage is a menace, and how the police should have bigger and more powerful guns to stop him, and everyone in the crowd cheers.

How did this scene make sense to the writers at all? A crowd of people that are pissed off about police misconduct cheering for police to get more powerful weapons and become more militarized?

Spoiler: Somehow I don't remember people cheering sights like this.

While I enjoyed Luke Cage, I have to say the show often had a really broad dissonance between the messages that it presented episode to episode and scene to scene, like the writers couldn't really decide what they wanted.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

Honestly I can't even be bothered to give it a shot, I found Jessica Jones so God damn exhausting by the end I was routing for Kilgrave, and that show had it's own political bullshit message too about what love is and coping with truama.

I could swallow the message just fine, but then half way through they got him dead to rights in a cell and she doesn't just kill him. It's fucking tiresome.

 

[SupahEwok]

I might be speaking crazy here, but can't we have a black super hero in the center without going current politics? I thought that Marvel was supposed to be the fun company.

On the converse, this is the perfect time for a black superhero series to take a political stand. The existence of Luke Cage as one of the first black superheros itself was a political statement, it would be intellectually dishonest to ignore that aspect of the character. There's no reason a creative team cannot tackle current issues.

That said, attempting to have a message about an ongoing issue is more volatile than on an issue that history has already judged. I haven't seen the show yet and cannot comment on how well it may or may not have done in its themes.

 

[happyninja42]

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I don't know either. The show felt like it was trying to juggle too many plots at once, and was only barely keeping them all in the air until the end. And then Diamondback shows up and....just...ugh.

I found the show to be decent, slightly better than, or equal to my enjoyment of Jessica Jones. Which was also a flawed and frustrating series. And actually, equal to season 2 of Daredevil. All 3 of those things felt like they aimed just a little too high, and fell short of the mark, while being a little too loose with some of the plot elements they introduced, in ways that are frustrating to the viewer.

I could swallow the message just fine, but then half way through they got him dead to rights in a cell and she doesn't just kill him. It's fucking tiresome.

To be fair, she needed him alive so she could prove mind control powers existed and prove that one girl innocent of killing her parents. I mean, it was dumb and really only because they had like four episodes left but at least they have a reason.

My issue with JJ is they played the "Kilgrave tosses innocents into her path so he can escape" ploy waaaay too many times.

Spoiler

And considering one glaring time, when the thing didn't even kill them. When Kilgrave had Hope at the dinner table, and the 3 bystanders were standing on the bar about to hang themselves. She doesn't attack Kilgrave because, in theory, they would die before she could save them....except they hang themselves anyway, and she has PLENTY of time to save them while dealing with Kilgrave and Hope!! So it was an empty threat that didn't actually need to stop her, because it didn't anyway! And then by the 12,000th time Kilgrave escapes by having a bystander almost kill themselves in Jessica's way, it just got tiring. I didn't care anymore, there was no dramatic tension. I was simply waiting for all the plot points to finish up, so we could end the show. It just...bleh.

Ironically, Luke Cage was my favorite part of Jessica Jones, but in his own show, I found him really bland and lacking nuance. He was too squeaky clean. He didn't swear (and the stupid shit he did say instead of swearing, ugh), he didn't drink, he was a good preacher's boy, blah blah. He had no flaws. He felt unrealistic to me in every way. He felt, quite literally, like a comic book character. Jessica and Matt, at least felt genuinely human, because they had flaws. The fucked up stuff, they lost their temper. The one time Luke almost loses his temper on a kid holding a gun to him, he stops to give a speech about black history and pride in their culture. I just...nobody does that!

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

I might be speaking crazy here, but can't we have a black super hero in the center without going current politics? I thought that Marvel was supposed to be the fun company.

Black Panther seems pretty a-political (aside from his name). But I only say that based on my viewings of Civil War and no further knowledge of the character.

Hmm.. I haven't watched any yet but I figured Luke Cage would dabble in these themes. To be honest I don't know if I'm interested now. Not because I have a problem with talking about black rights or discussions of racial and police tension, but because I don't think I want something I watch in my leisure to be that exhausting and depressing. I gave Jessica Jones a shot and got two episodes in before I got tired of all the manipulation and sexual assault and depression.

 

[Fappy]

Regarding the show in a broad sense, I enjoyed it but felt it begins to fall apart once Cottonmouth dies. Luke's origin story was clumsy and Diamondback was a contrived and stupid character. Should have just stuck with Shades and Mariah for the second half imo.

As for the political message, I think the sloppy plot of Act 3 muddied the message for sure. Someone already mentioned "why does it have to be political", which kind of ignores the fact that Luke Cage has always been a very political character. It wouldn't be true adaptation if the story didn't tackle contemporary issues in black America. Certain Marvel stories and characters consistently address political issues (Captain America being chief among them), so I think its appropriate to go that route, especially with characters like Luke Cage and Jessica Jones.

 

[happyninja42]

I might be speaking crazy here, but can't we have a black super hero in the center without going current politics? I thought that Marvel was supposed to be the fun company.

Black Panther seems pretty a-political (aside from his name). But I only say that based on my viewings of Civil War and no further knowledge of the character.

Hmm.. I haven't watched any yet but I figured Luke Cage would dabble in these themes. To be honest I don't know if I'm interested now. Not because I have a problem with talking about black rights or discussions of racial and police tension, but because I don't think I want something I watch in my leisure to be that exhausting and depressing. I gave Jessica Jones a shot and got two episodes in before I got tired of all the manipulation and sexual assault and depression.

If you didn't like Jessica Jones, then you might not like Luke Cage. It's got a similar feel to it in my opinion? And while the political stuff is present, I wouldn't say it's overbearing, at least not at first. It does get a bit thicker towards the end, but it felt natural given the plot. But, if that kind of plot itself annoys you, you might not like it.

I found it, relatively ok. On par with Jessica Jones, which for me, was a very flawed show, that didn't satisfy as much as I hoped it would.

 

[Fappy]

I might be speaking crazy here, but can't we have a black super hero in the center without going current politics? I thought that Marvel was supposed to be the fun company.

Black Panther seems pretty a-political (aside from his name). But I only say that based on my viewings of Civil War and no further knowledge of the character.

Hmm.. I haven't watched any yet but I figured Luke Cage would dabble in these themes. To be honest I don't know if I'm interested now. Not because I have a problem with talking about black rights or discussions of racial and police tension, but because I don't think I want something I watch in my leisure to be that exhausting and depressing. I gave Jessica Jones a shot and got two episodes in before I got tired of all the manipulation and sexual assault and depression.

If you didn't like Jessica Jones, then you might not like Luke Cage. It's got a similar feel to it in my opinion? And while the political stuff is present, I wouldn't say it's overbearing, at least not at first. It does get a bit thicker towards the end, but it felt natural given the plot. But, if that kind of plot itself annoys you, you might not like it.

I found it, relatively ok. On par with Jessica Jones, which for me, was a very flawed show, that didn't satisfy as much as I hoped it would.

I personally enjoyed Jessica Jones a lot more. Both had issues with pacing/plot, but it was a lot less blatant in JJ imo.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

I might be speaking crazy here, but can't we have a black super hero in the center without going current politics? I thought that Marvel was supposed to be the fun company.

Black Panther seems pretty a-political (aside from his name). But I only say that based on my viewings of Civil War and no further knowledge of the character.

Hmm.. I haven't watched any yet but I figured Luke Cage would dabble in these themes. To be honest I don't know if I'm interested now. Not because I have a problem with talking about black rights or discussions of racial and police tension, but because I don't think I want something I watch in my leisure to be that exhausting and depressing. I gave Jessica Jones a shot and got two episodes in before I got tired of all the manipulation and sexual assault and depression.

If you didn't like Jessica Jones, then you might not like Luke Cage. It's got a similar feel to it in my opinion? And while the political stuff is present, I wouldn't say it's overbearing, at least not at first. It does get a bit thicker towards the end, but it felt natural given the plot. But, if that kind of plot itself annoys you, you might not like it.

I found it, relatively ok. On par with Jessica Jones, which for me, was a very flawed show, that didn't satisfy as much as I hoped it would.

Fair enough. I've been thinking about giving JJ another shot. I watched it with my girlfriend who is very easily scared and and creeped out so she found it rather disturbing. My perception of it might be colored by her very strong reaction. I've heard such good things about it and I have a pretty big crush on Kristen Ritter so I might dive back in. I think Luke Cage will just be one of those things that's on my list and I'll get to it when I've got nothing else to watch.

 

[happyninja42]

Fair enough. I've been thinking about giving JJ another shot. I watched it with my girlfriend who is very easily scared and and creeped out so she found it rather disturbing. My perception of it might be colored by her very strong reaction. I've heard such good things about it and I have a pretty big crush on Kristen Ritter so I might dive back in. I think Luke Cage will just be one of those things that's on my list and I'll get to it when I've got nothing else to watch.

Might be, I've found things I first didn't like, become something I love a lot. For me it was V for Vendetta, JJ might be that thing for you. I think my main issue with JJ was, in my head, I had where I wanted the story to go, and they were really close to it, but just missed it enough, heading in another direction, to frustrate me. That and my above mentioned issues with using Kilgrave's plot device too much.

Side note, man, one thing I find really annoying about all of these Netflix Marvel shows, is not letting Matt Murdock do much actual lawyering!

In his own show, he is almost never actually in the court, and the episodes where he is, are usually short, or interrupted for one reason or another.

And in shows like JJ and Luke Cage, he never shows up! Several times I was like "gee, it would be great if a sympathetic lawyer who is familiar with the problems of being a superhero could show up and help them, if only there was one in the New York area!" Not only because in JJ, she's working with an actual lawfirm, so having him show up would actually make some sense with the plot. But in Luke,

Spoiler

Claire mentions it several times! "Hey, I know a really good lawyer who could help you" And they never pull that trigger!

It would make sense, and it would establish, similar to the Nick Fury bits at the end of the MCU, to link the stories. Have him show up as a cameo, establish them knowing each other, so that later, when the Defenders show starts up, there is an established history to work off. "Hey, you're that guy that helped me with that legal problem I had, and you also run around being a hero like me...ok, I'll listen to your sales pitch for being a team." But alas, no, they don't go that route. Le sigh.

 

[BloatedGuppy]

I started watching Luke Cage, and after one episode I was cringing. It was so...plonky. The dialogue was bad, the acting was dubious, and instead of being "fun" the blaxploitation elements just seemed painfully predictable/on the nose.

Did it improve in subsequent episodes, or is episode 1 indicative of the series as a whole?

 

[maninahat]

I'm about 8 episodes in. Like the last two big Marvel tv series, Jessica Jones and Dare Devil Season 2, it feels overly long for the story it is trying to tell. Dare Devil relied on one two many ninja fights to pad it out. Jessica Jones depended on side plots with detestable, boring people. Luke Cage does it by having way too many sit down conversations. 90% of that show is two people sitting down, chatting. Often what they are saying is a reiteration of what they have already said, what we've already seen or a cute philosophical banter to remind us all there are *shock!* two sides to some issues.

If they did seven episode abridged versions of Marvel series, they'd be great. I don't know why they insist on this protracted, exhaustive format, especially when people watching them on netflix will watch three or four episodes in immediate succession, so the repetition and filler becomes all the more blatant.

Politics wise, it does seem kind of lazy. Yes, it is nice to see a heroes and villains interested in issues like gentrification and legacy, but it often does it in the most simplistic way possible, literally telling the audience that this is what it is about.

 

[JUMBO PALACE]

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I don't know, I thought Matt and Foggy were in the court room a decent amount considering their lack of client base haha. I always looked forward to Matt's impassioned speeches and appeals. Charlie Cox is a pretty effective orator.

But, it is a little disappointing to hear that these shows only acknowledge each other in such cursory ways. The DC television shows do the exact opposite, setting up characters through minor appearances that lead to larger scale cross overs. It's interesting to me that Marvel and DC seem to be doing the exact opposite of one another in movies and TV.

Movies: DC is dark and edgy while Marvel is bright and team-building focuses
TV: DC is about plucky characters and uplifting heroism and Marvel is bleak solo affairs that deal with things like sexual assault and racial violence.

Edit: Oh, and Resident Evil 4 was my needs-3-tries-before-you-like-it thing.

 

[sageoftruth]

I haven't seen it, but I do think it's possible for a show or a work of fiction to address something political without actually having a message in the end. The point could be to show every side of the situation so others can reach an informed conclusion on their own, or it could just be there to paint a situation people can relate to, in order to make the characters more relatable.

Of course there could be a message hiding in there regardless of the writers' intent, but someone who actually watched the show will have to cover that.

 

[LostCrusader]

I started watching Luke Cage, and after one episode I was cringing. It was so...plonky. The dialogue was bad, the acting was dubious, and instead of being "fun" the blaxploitation elements just seemed painfully predictable/on the nose.

Did it improve in subsequent episodes, or is episode 1 indicative of the series as a whole?

It gets worse as the series goes along IMO. The scene the OP mentions is a great example of that. A kid is assaulted by a police officer while in custody, because he knew Luke Cage. The bad council woman says to a crowd at a rally that this problem can be fixed by giving the police bigger guns that can hurt Luke Cage and everyone cheers.

Spoiler: last episode

The last episode has Luke fighting Diamondback and that was just them punching each other in the middle of the street with a huge crowd around them. The crowd starts rooting Luke on, despite wanting to arm the police to kill him a few episodes earlier.

 

[DudeistBelieve]

I could swallow the message just fine, but then half way through they got him dead to rights in a cell and she doesn't just kill him. It's fucking tiresome.

To be fair, she needed him alive so she could prove mind control powers existed and prove that one girl innocent of killing her parents. I mean, it was dumb and really only because they had like four episodes left but at least they have a reason.

Still this is POST-Alien attack. People have seen the fucking hulk, and it's not plausible there can be a person with mind powers?

The art had no truth. I expect Luke Cage is filled with the same bullshit, no thank you.

 

[Fox12]

Honestly I can't even be bothered to give it a shot, I found Jessica Jones so God damn exhausting by the end I was routing for Kilgrave, and that show had it's own political bullshit message too about what love is and coping with truama.

I could swallow the message just fine, but then half way through they got him dead to rights in a cell and she doesn't just kill him. It's fucking tiresome.

I felt that way about Daredevil, and there's no doubt it's the better show. I honestly wanted Kingpin to smash Daredevils head in. He was a much more interesting character. I couldn't be bothered to sit through Jessica Jones.

I may watch a Punisher show if it comes out.