How Electronic Arts Made Dungeon Keeper A Huge Fiasco

[Clovus]

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that DKM was necessarily "good", but as someone who's played a number of Facebook and mobile games, it certainly wasn't terrible.

It's interesting to read a not-completely negative review. I was wondering what your opinions of the actual F2P mechanics were though. Did you just not mind waiting long real-world time for stuff to be completed, or do you just not mind spending money to hurry it up? Did you end up spending money?

Regardless of the game quality, I just can't stand dealing with either issue. Steam has me use to spending very little money for full games, so the idea of paying money for boosts/items/speed-ups is a non-starter.

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that DKM was necessarily "good", but as someone who's played a number of Facebook and mobile games, it certainly wasn't terrible.

It's interesting to read a not-completely negative review. I was wondering what your opinions of the actual F2P mechanics were though. Did you just not mind waiting long real-world time for stuff to be completed, or do you just not mind spending money to hurry it up? Did you end up spending money?

Regardless of the game quality, I just can't stand dealing with either issue. Steam has me use to spending very little money for full games, so the idea of paying money for boosts/items/speed-ups is a non-starter.

The monetization was easy to ignore, really (though at the same time, it's kinda everywhere, since you can spend gems on pretty much anything). At no point did I feel the need to rush any of the projects with premium currency. Though it is worth noting that I've played games like Tiny Tower, so I'm not stranger to the mechanic of "Tell the game to do stuff, then come back later when it's done." The usual play session was basically harvesting the gold and stone that your mines accumulated since you last gathered them, checking on what your Imps are up to and reassigning them to a new task if they're done with their last one (and slapping them while you're at it), going on a raid (after gathering mana if needed), then getting your next army training (since soldiers go away after being deployed), and then maybe slapping your Imps one last time before double-checking projects and what-not before shutting it down for that session.

As for the question of whether or not I spent money: Yes, I did. I didn't feel obligated or forced, I legitimately wanted to. I didn't spend a lot, just enough to unlock a couple of extra Imps. The main reason I spent money on them is because they're permanent as compared to resources that are gone once spent, or rushing a project that just speeds-up the rate that resources are needed. Each Imp is able to do one project at a time, and every Imp doubles the timer you get when you slap them for the 2x speed bonus on their projects (for a total of 8 hours if you have all 6 Imps, I think). If it wasn't possible to buy Imps with premium currency (or some other long-term/permanent acquisition), I probably wouldn't have spent a single cent on the game. Once in a while I'd spend some of my spare gems to refill my mana, but otherwise I basically just sat on them in case some new long-term purchase was implemented in a patch. Sadly that never happened (at least while I was still playing), so my account is sitting there with (I think) about 2400 Gems right now (which were mostly accumulated from in-game means, not left-over from purchases).

 

[WhiteTigerShiro]

A few months later one of the developers dismissed the resulting fan outrage, saying that people were "playing it wrong".

To be fair, he was kinda right. A lot of gamers were approaching this game with the same fervor that they approach other games; that is, getting ready to sit down for a nice long gaming session. Games like Dungeon Keeper Mobile (DKM) are games that are designed to be played in brief snippets, maybe 30 minutes tops.

I find that defence alittle weak - if they didn't want people to come into the game thinking of it like the old dungeon keepers, they probably -shouldn't have used dungeon keeper-.

Granted. I'm not saying that people are wrong for wanting more from the Dungeon Keeper franchise, I'm just saying that the game itself (regardless of its attached franchise) plays just fine for the way it was meant to be played.

I certainly appreciate the more in depth view into the game itself and I don't disagree that DKM got a bit of a raw deal based on second hand impressions, but for the F2P model those first few minutes or first impressions are so crucial and make or break the game even for good titles. And what Shamus has pointed out here is much less to do with the actual game play and more so the brazen monetization. Even the in game contents pushes and prods you to spend money, in a manner that can leave you quite jilted. I played it and this was my experience, I loved the graphics and the art direction in all honesty but free to play tutorial and then ridiculous wait times for some blocks is counter intuitive, it forces the player to conform to DKM's time and not for DKM to be available on the players.

I would disagree with the game "pushing and prodding" to spend money. The game mentions it during the tutorial, and then that's it. From that point forth the option simple exists. I don't really count simply existing as "pushing and prodding". As for the wait times, they really aren't that ridiculous until you get closer to endgame upgrades (by which time you'd be used to the idea of firing them up and having them get done later), and even then you can cut the wait time by up to half depending on how good you are about keeping your Imps' slap timer up (which is easier to maintain with each Imp you get since they increase the timer).

It was a simple error in thinking and I actually would assume that EA didn't have bad intentions but you can explain to people in the office how to play the game, but the same does not work outside. If you tell me that I'm suppose to open it real quick and then come back to it again for a little bit in a couple of hours, those little digs for cash they make wouldn't stand out too much but mobile games don't have the luxury of predicting how the player is going to interact with the device let alone the game. So for EA to tell us we're not playing it right, actually would have been fine too, but for them to not take responsibility at all for the fact that this is how most people saw the game, and most people didn't like it, is essentially saying that we're too stupid to understand what they were going for and so its our failure, is frankly something I would rather not be blamed for.

That's a fair point. Maybe games like this, since they are relatively new (especially for mainstream gamers), need make a point of explaining how they are designed and paced. I think the EA rep should have done that when people started slandering DKM. Rather than just brazenly saying "You're doing it wrong", he should have taken the time to explain that "Hey, games like this aren't created nor intended to be marathoned-through like you can with most games". Maybe it's something that other games like this need to start to incorporate into their tutorials, to better communicate to the player how the game was designed. That way people would hopefully see the timers as less "bilking us for cash", and more just as the pacing mechanic that they are.

Another thing is that people need to realize that this type of game just isn't for everyone. No game is. Some people just don't like Strategy games, some people don't like racing games. That doesn't make them bad genres, it just means that they appeal to whom they appeal.

 

[Clovus]

As for the question of whether or not I spent money: Yes, I did. I didn't feel obligated or forced, I legitimately wanted to. I didn't spend a lot, just enough to unlock a couple of extra Imps. The main reason I spent money on them is because they're permanent as compared to resources that are gone once spent, or rushing a project that just speeds-up the rate that resources are needed.

Yeah, spending money on a permanent thing makes sense to me. I've been playing Hearthstone, and find most of the monetization in it pretty fair. I haven't spent any money (my nerves can only handle a few hands a day) on it yet, but buying permanent packs of cards seems pretty fair.

 

[Blackbird71]

Sigh...everyone just shits on about this stuff day after day, but none of it ever seems to change. More so, it just only seems to be getting worse. Why? Because gamer still keep buying it. If the gaming community is stupid enough to keep throwing money at companies that treat them this way again and again for years on in, then it's hard to have any sympathy for the poor ol' gamer. Just stop buying it, people. Close your wallets, FFS! Quit throwing money at these companies every time they bring out a new shiny graphics engine.

...

Only we can free ourselves from this tyranny! Only we can take down these companies in the fires of revolution! Only we have the power to change the industry for ever! But only if we would ever learn to...JUST...STOP...BUYING IT***sob, sob, sob***!

Don't look at me, I haven't bought anything from EA in about a decade. Everything they touch just turns terrible. I used to be a huge BioWare fan, but once they were acquired by EA, they were immediately off my list because I knew that nothing they put out under the EA banner would be worth my time. Looking back on what has happened to the company since then, and the games they have put out, I'm glad I stuck to my instincts on that.

I think the reason that companies like EA continue to survive because they are constantly bringing in a younger generation of gamers. We older gamers have been burned and learned our lessons, but every year you have new young kids and teenagers who have yet to go through the same experiences. They haven't learned to be discerning or principled about their purchases (for many of them, it's just mom and dad's money anyway, so why should they care?). I'd be willing to bet that most gamers under the age of 15 probably don't even know who publishes the games that are on their shelf. There's just an overall apathy and lack of awareness during those years.

Of course, these gamers will grow up. They will reach a point where they are paying for their own games, and so become more carful with how they spend their limited funds. They will have experiences that shape their views on which companies are worth supporting. Some of them will even have enough self control to let those views guide their purchases. But in the end, there will always be a younger crowd, and as long as EA can crank stuff out for them fast enough (and the kids can convince their parents/grandparents/favorite aunt/uncle/etc. to buy games for them), they will still sell a lot of crap.

 

[CaitSeith]

"...I think we might have innovated too much or tried some different things that people just weren't ready for."

He's pretty damn right. People still aren't stupid enough.

 

[CaitSeith]

A few months later one of the developers dismissed the resulting fan outrage, saying that people were "playing it wrong".

To be fair, he was kinda right. A lot of gamers were approaching this game with the same fervor that they approach other games; that is, getting ready to sit down for a
nice long gaming session.

Playing without expending any gems in the DKM isn't the way the game suggest. Usually when you play the game in a way that it doesn't recommends, you are playing it wrong.

(And ignoring the fact that plenty of other mobile games managed to make a profit without creating so much backlash.)

Because these other mobile games weren't using a beloved franchise, and they weren't developed by EA. If Dungeon Keeper was any-other franchise, and if Mythic was owned by any-other developer, their game would barely be a blip on the general gaming community's radar.

There are other beloved franchises that were ported to the mobile market and didn't have backslash: Dragon's Lair, Monster Hunter, Final Fantasy III. Problems arise when the gameplay is changed without any warning (specially when it involves changing genres and monetizing). This has happened in other videogame platforms too (like Banjo & Kazooie: Nuts and Bolts)

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that DKM was necessarily "good", but as someone who's played a number of Facebook and mobile games, it certainly wasn't terrible. The game had potential, and honestly I couldn't tell you if not meeting that potential was because of EA holding Mythic back, or because of Mythic lacking the ability to deliver (outside of an MMO that's barely a blip outside of the community that played it, what good games have they made in the past?).

I think you have played so many facebook and mobile games that you are starting to desensitize yourself about anti-consumer tactics. If it failed, it's kinda obvious they pushed it too far this time; and even if you payed, you didn't get a fair value for your money (specially when average consumers aren't that stingy in good F2P games).

While I haven't read EVERY review on the game, the ones that I did read all did the exact same thing: Specifically played the game wrong just so they could rant about how terrible the game is. The equivalent of someone specifically jumping down the pits in Super Mario Bros so that they can rant about the game constantly pulls cheap deaths; and then no one else in the industry (or community) actually plays the game so that's what everyone ends-up believing, that Super Mario Bros is a terribly-made game that forces the player to die for no reason.

Obviously there were complains about how unplayable the pits in the first SMB were (specially when flying enemies, fireballs, projectiles, moving platforms, narrow corridors and small sized landing spaces were involved). The difference: it didn't ask you for money to pass the pits! Skills and patience were the only options (and the videogame market already had difficult console games). Heck! Even in the newest versions if you die too much in a level, you are given a free power up (emphasis in the word FREE) that allows you to pass the level in an absurdly easy way.

Another thing, good games that are bashed by the game community (but most of those who play it love it) become "cult classics" and regain popularity in the future (Earthbound and, in much less measure, Wind Waker comes to mind). DKM probably won't be the case (specially because it will become inaccessible once the servers go down).

Edit: And don't get me wrong, I agree that EA has a lot of shaping-up to do. I just think that DKM is unfairly singled-out by virtue of being the only game of its genre that the general gaming community has paid any form of attention to.

More like the game of its genre that the gaming community have most recently (or most loudly) complained about.

PS: Personally I also hate having to be always online to be able to play these F2P games (or any single-player mobile game). Except for the multiplayer features and the micro-transactions, most parts of the game DKM could had been made offline; but that's another can of worms.